I need some advice. Weird situation.....

[tomdi]

I'm in a bit of a dilemma right now. I'm sorry if this is the wrong section to post this. I Don't really know what to do or how to react. I thought I got really lucky and then.......

I know a Professional photographer for 6 month now. He was shooting a friends wedding, we started talking and a month later he wants to see some of my pics. He likes them and asks me to go an shoot a "project" (wedding rings) for him. He loves the pictures and asks me for another project. Obviousely I don't refuse as I see a huge opporunity to learn a lot here. Second Project (car shoot), he doesn't show up!!!(car accident) I proceed with the shoot, give him the pics. He loves them and the customer is happy. He asks me to go and shoot a wedding with him as a second photographer. I spend 12 hours shooting the wedding with him. (it was awesome) A week later give him my CD with the pics, he checks them and tells me they're great, there's minor issues but mainly due to the fact that I didn't close in enough on some of the portraits. That was at the end of September.

Now here's the weird part. Last week I get an email asking me if I wouldn't want to switch to a film camera. He argued my work would be a lot better on film. I told him that I wasn't interested as I've bought a 5D three month ago. Since then I am being spammed with emails telling me how bad digital is against film and that all my pictures suffer from a color and exposure issues which wouldn't be the case if I was using a film camera. I asked to see what the problem was but I don't get a clear answer, and the people I've seen after they've received their pictures were always happy.

I don't really know what to do about this. My guts tell me to let him know that I will not buy a Film camera running the risk of loosing this great opportunity, ....
On the other side I don't want to keep this discussion going and going and going..... every time I deliver him a CD.

Why would a pro react like this????

[Gary_Evans]

Film vs Digital. This has been debated a million times on a thousand forums and I wont open that particular debate again.

You dont make clear who is spamming you. The pro tog? other togs? someone else?

My gut reaction on this is that if you shoot digital, you would still have a copy of the images and if you shoot film and give him the unprocessed negs you wont. Maybe he is insecure, and worries that you will build a portfolio that rivals his and then you will steal his business.

Personally having invested in the 5D, I wouldnt change.

You have hit the nail on the head by talking of the clients reactions. For all the BS that you will find on the web that is all that matters. A happy client is everything.

[tomdi]

It's the pro who's spamming me with emails on that topic.

That was my point to him, I've just got my 5D and I love it. I don't see the point of buying a Film Camera only for the sake of it. I really don't understand where he wants to go with it.

[Oneslowz28]

You shoot with your 5D and the results are great right? I dont care who the "Pro" is. It could be Mr. Adams himself and if he told me to switch to a film camera I would politely tell him no and if he persisted I would simply drop all contact. Dont ever change your self for anyone. Be who you want to be and shoot with what you want to shoot with. Heck use this oppertunity to get your name out and maybe his clients will remember you next time.

[TeeJay]

...I don't see the point of buying a Film Camera only for the sake of it...

I don't see the point of working for someone who bombards you with emails after every shoot!

You know the quality of your work, he know's the quality of your work, move on.

TJ

[stathunter]

Is this "pro" paying you well? If not become a "pro" yourself and tell him to keep the film camera for himself.
You cannot please everyone...........everyone has their own opinion. Sometimes you need to make business decisions and tell him to stop bothering you about film. He will not change and you will not go back to film.

[tomdi]

paying??? I'm doing this for free, .....

Up to now Photography was a hobby, I enjoy it so much. This was a great opportunity, but too much is too much. I think I will do one more job for him, and if he doesn't stop, ... well that'll be it then.

[cdmonkey]

if your work is good why not go it alone, you seem confident in your abilities and he is getting a very good deal if you are working for free.
oh and I wouldnt consider going to film, I like digital so thats where i would stay.

[Go Go]

Hi Tom,

Film is different, looks different and prints different. Maybe thats what this "Pro" is trying to offer via your participation. Business requires that you offer many options to your customers.

Working for free is not good, and this "Pro" should not be sending you out on assignments and reaping the reward for your efforts without paying you and acknowledging your efforts to the client. Does anyone know that you shot he work? Who's interests are being served here?

Time to ask some hard questions?

[primoz]

Why would a pro react like this?

Because he has old film camera laying in some box and needs to sell it? :mrgreen:
Seriously... I have no idea. All of colleagues I work with, are not into "this is better then that" stuff, but I guess 100 people, 100 different characters. I would just delete those mails and I wouldn't bother to reply. Personally I don't see point in debates that one thing is better then other. Shoot whatever you want, and if you can produce good enough results, that's all what matters. And just ignore those mails. If he starts to talk about this thing, change subject. It's best way. :)

[mdm]

Ignore his e-mails and when he is really needing you to go on a job ask him how much he is getting paid and how much is your part. Then decide what you will do.

[rabidcow]

paying??? I'm doing this for free, .....

:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

He is a bandit. You are working for free?!!? Notice the word "working" in that last sentence. I know that you love this, hell, we all do, but when a client is forking over money for images (like a 12 hour wedding) then it is work, you have every right to be paid, and ANY pro worth his/her salt would recognize this and offer a cut to you.

[tomdi]

thanks everybody. I think I know now what I needed to know. I will wait for the next assignement and ask my share. If he doesn't want to pay, he'll do it by himself.

Well the customers knows I did the job, people around me know, but it's : Yeah it's the guy working for "that company" who did the shoot. They will only remember the Pro's company name.

[stathunter]

paying??? I'm doing this for free, .....

.

NOOOOO..........make sure you are always paid. Pass out your cards while you are working for the "pro".......unless he decides he will pay you for your work then you work for him. Now you are just being taken.

This guy is taking advantage of you.........BIG TIME. What is worth doing.......is worth doing for money. :)

[cosworth]

I'm doing this for free, ......


You learned all you can from this guy, move on. Start doing your own work, learn exposure and light on your terms - not his - and shoot circles around him with your superior people skills (apparently this guy has none).

Maybe one day you'll hire him for free and demand he switch to digital.

Long story short this guy does film and doesn't want to mess with learning software. He's stagnant and a horrible source to learn from.

[ClickClick]

If he supplies the film camera and film on top of your wage, then you could consider it.

[SingingSabre]

thanks everybody. I think I know now what I needed to know. I will wait for the next assignement and ask my share. If he doesn't want to pay, he'll do it by himself.

Well the customers knows I did the job, people around me know, but it's : Yeah it's the guy working for "that company" who did the shoot. They will only remember the Pro's company name.

Get some business cards online (I recommend overnightprints.com) or print 'em up yourself (Avery makes a decent clean-edge card available at any office supply store) and start passing them out. Now.

If you're working for free, it means you didn't sign any contracts with that company, right?

Do it while you still can!

[Reefbone]

This is off topic and my apologies to the OP since they proably won't get the reference BUT... this thread reminds me on the Sienfeld where Jerry is shooting the bootleg movies. :D

[SingingSabre]

This is off topic and my apologies to the OP since they proably won't get the reference BUT... this thread reminds me on the Sienfeld where Jerry is shooting the bootleg movies. :D

Haha! I totally see that!

[tomdi]

no I don't have a written contract with the guy. The deal is that he takes me along as a second shooter and I learn as much as I can. I kinda hoped that later on I would be able to take on my own customers and pay him a percentage (10% - 20%) to do my shoots with his license.

I do have a company of my own but I don't have a PG license yet. They're not very easy to get around here. I need to take classes for 3 more years. But that's kinda difficult as I have a daytime job plus my company to run after regular business hours.

@clickclick: No All the shoots were done with my camera. The PP was all done on my PC's

[Reefbone]

but I don't have a PG license yet.


What is a PG license ?

[TeeJay]

If he supplies the film camera and film on top of your wage, then you could consider it.

Hmmm... don't think so - as shooting film gives HIM all the original negatives - you don't get squat for your own portfolio! :evil:

TJ

[tomdi]

@reefbone: Photographer Licence.

[PhotosGuy]

You learned all you can from this guy, move on. Agree 100% Photographer Licence...I need to take classes for 3 more years. If you must have a license to shoot there, & if it were me, I'd consider that Luxembourg isn't that big & I'd shoot elsewhere? ;)

[Reefbone]

If you must have a license to shoot there, & if it were me, I'd consider that Luxembourg isn't that big & I'd shoot elsewhere? ;)

They probabley can demand a premium price for their work because of the imposed limits. It might also be why the guy that appears to be using him can get away with it.

[tomdi]

I need to cross the border to see what the laws are there to get a licence. Could be interesting.

He's not doing anything illegal. The only thing I really dislike is the fact that he wants me to get a Film Camera which I won't do.