What would you charge for this?

[gooble]

What would you charge for this?

Day 1: 3 Hour headshot shoot of eight people.

Day 2: 2-3 Hour headshot shoot for one more person and a retake of one person from previous shoot. Group shots of the nine people.

Approx 1hour in DPP/ACR/Lightroom sorting through approx 300 images, adjusting WB, exposure etc. to pick nine headshots and one group shot.

Approx 4 hours Photoshop work adjusting contrast, sharpening; detailed work on eyes; removing blemishes and out of place hairs; removing unwanted features from images such as logos on shirts etc; also some cropping and vignetteing done.

In total I worked on 12 images which included a couple alternate images. 4 hours for 12 images equals approx. 15 min per image (is this reasonable/unreasonable?).

In total 10 images will be used for a theater performance. All images will be used in small format in the program and 8x10's will be displayed in the lobby. The show will run for three days. Also, I am not providing the prints or the program.

I will also add that this is my first work of this kind. I'm pleased by the outcome of the images, although they could be better.

Now, I added some numbers up based on what I've gleaned from this forum and from what other professionals charge. I definately don't feel I should demand top payment for this work as I am so inexperienced. The client is on a shoestring budget as well and would likely not hire an expensive photographer. Having said that I figure at a minimum I should charge $700-$1000 and with a better product I would feel comfortable charging 1.5 to 2 times that amount. What do you think?

[stathunter]

I am reading this quick..........while multitasking with other things.......but it sounds like you already did the work. Is this correct?

[gooble]

I am reading this quick..........while multitasking with other things.......but it sounds like you already did the work. Is this correct?

Yes. And before anyone comments about why I did work without a signed contract etc etc. I know. I know what I should have done, but the client is a relative (of course), I'm new at this, I don't have a business set up, I don't have terms and conditions, I don't have contracts, and I don't have a price list.

If I were to wait until I had all that before I did any work I'd likely never get started. I'm a student and I work part time in accounting. Photography up until now has been a hobby and maybe it can become more and at least pay for itself and maybe more if things work out.

[stathunter]

Ok--the reason I asked is that it is a bit difficult now to negotiate. You have a few things going on here. First you did not get the budget ahead of time. Second it is a relative----yikes. Third you are both new at this.

Here is what I would do---since it is first time for both and they are related to you. I would tell them everything you have put into it. Then ask them what you should charge----almost like you would do at the beginning.

If starting all over---I would ask them their budget on it---so there are no hard feelings after.

They will probably pay you less than what you want--but now you can say you have had a paying customer. Your relative gets what they want. You have expereince for next time---everyone happy.

[gooble]

Ok--the reason I asked is that it is a bit difficult now to negotiate. You have a few things going on here. First you did not get the budget ahead of time. Second it is a relative----yikes. Third you are both new at this.

Here is what I would do---since it is first time for both and they are related to you. I would tell them everything you have put into it. Then ask them what you should charge----almost like you would do at the beginning.

If starting all over---I would ask them their budget on it---so there are no hard feelings after.

They will probably pay you less than what you want--but now you can say you have had a paying customer. Your relative gets what they want. You have expereince for next time---everyone happy.

Thanks for the advice.

For now, I'm just wondering whether the amount I came up with is reasonable. I'm not necessarily worried about getting that amount out of this deal. I would just like to know what others who have done this kind of work would charge given the work put into it which I listed in my original post.

I'm mainly trying to get a feel for what to charge so when the next project comes along I'll be able to price it.

[sfaust]

You should put a premium on your time to get your terms and condtions, contracts, etc, all created and ready. The longer you wait, the more jobs you'll end up doing without them, and eventually you will get bitten. Once you bitten, you'll be kicking yourself for not doing them sooner. So bite the bullet, get them done, and don't accept any new work until your 'house' is in order.

Other than that, it sounds like your pricing is reasonable compared to your experience level.

[BillsBayou]

Come up with a professional number. Then give the relative a discount. That way you look like a pro to non-relatives and you're not a jerk who won't come down on his price to your relative.

Day 1: $50 per hour (3), $25 per person on head shots( 8 ); $350
Day 2: $50 per hour (3), $25 per person on head shots(2), $75 group shot + $10 per person over 5(+4); $310
Post Processing: Only charge for the blemishes and hair; $25 extra per photo. I say this because exposure problems are your problems; the zits, wrinkles, and bad hair is theirs.

Now you need to charge for the prints themselves ($10 per) or sell them a CD of the shoot, say 2 or 3 per head shot, 2 or 3 of the group; 25-30 photos at $5 per photo with a copyright release on all the shots for promotional purposes associated with the show, NOT for personal portfolios. YOU retain ownership of the photos.

$660 for the shoots
$150 to $300 on retouching
$120 for a dozen photos or $100 for the CD

Take off about $300 (a bit more than 25%) for being a relative. Don't give in. (EDIT: I just took a look at your initial estimate of $700-$1000. With the discount, this puts my number right into your range. ;) )

Get them to sign a release that the photos are for use with the show only. Also get them to sign a model release so that you retain ownership of all photos taken, not just the prints they were sold.

Because this is for a shoe-string show, all the models will sign off on the releases. They'll feel guilty towards the rest of the crew if they do not. If they do not sign a model release, you cannot release the photos to the show. I'm not clear on the laws, but if you sell the photos to the show and the people in the photos did not sign a model release, you cannot sell the photos to the show producers and the show cannot use the photos for promotional purposes.

These photos are still yours. Without the release, you cannot legally use them for anything, but you still get to keep them. You did not use up their time in the photo shoot, they called you in. They used your time.

[gooble]

Come up with a professional number. Then give the relative a discount. That way you look like a pro to non-relatives and you're not a jerk who won't come down on his price to your relative.

Day 1: $50 per hour (3), $25 per person on head shots( 8 ); $350
Day 2: $50 per hour (3), $25 per person on head shots(2), $75 group shot + $10 per person over 5(+4); $310
Post Processing: Only charge for the blemishes and hair; $25 extra per photo. I say this because exposure problems are your problems; the zits, wrinkles, and bad hair is theirs.

Now you need to charge for the prints themselves ($10 per) or sell them a CD of the shoot, say 2 or 3 per head shot, 2 or 3 of the group; 25-30 photos at $5 per photo with a copyright release on all the shots for promotional purposes associated with the show, NOT for personal portfolios. YOU retain ownership of the photos.

$660 for the shoots
$150 to $300 on retouching
$120 for a dozen photos or $100 for the CD

Take off about $300 (a bit more than 25%) for being a relative. Don't give in. (EDIT: I just took a look at your initial estimate of $700-$1000. With the discount, this puts my number right into your range. ;) )

Get them to sign a release that the photos are for use with the show only. Also get them to sign a model release so that you retain ownership of all photos taken, not just the prints they were sold.

Because this is for a shoe-string show, all the models will sign off on the releases. They'll feel guilty towards the rest of the crew if they do not. If they do not sign a model release, you cannot release the photos to the show. I'm not clear on the laws, but if you sell the photos to the show and the people in the photos did not sign a model release, you cannot sell the photos to the show producers and the show cannot use the photos for promotional purposes.

These photos are still yours. Without the release, you cannot legally use them for anything, but you still get to keep them. You did not use up their time in the photo shoot, they called you in. They used your time.

Thanks for the comment. Good advice.

Well at least I know I was in the ballpark. I wasn't actually sure how to deal with the fact that I will not be providing any printed works.

Would you deal with this in a similar way if someone wanted pictures of a show performance to use on their website? Something like $10 per image for them to use on their site as long as they don't sell copies of them to anyone else?

[BillsBayou]

If you're doing a shoot for a theater production, you're doing a shoot for a theater production. Extending the use of your photos beyond that venue doesn't even make sense.

Ok, enough with the mean old photographer approach.

The producers of the play paid for the shoot. They may want language in the contract that includes/prohibits use by the actors in their personal careers. However, if you simply retain the rights to the photos, then it's up to you how you sell them. Given that you most likely did not do a model portfolio shoot, they're only going to be using one or two of your shots in their portfolio. Also, given you're in Mesa and not L.A., you're not dealing with a great deal of demand. Sell the actors a CD and copyright release for $25 to $30. Blame the price on the overhead of doing a special CD just for them, but call it a discount because the shoot session was paid for by someone else("It's expensive AND cheap!"). If they want a separate portfolio session, do a 2-hour shoot, at least 50 photos on a CD, a copyright release limiting the shots for any non-transferable personal/professional use, and charge them $300.

[staereo]

Is the production a for-profit, or non-profit. To me, that changes it a bit. It seems that I've not had the pleasure of dealing with a client that has a decent budget for photography. Given, I'm still new in the business, but EVERYONE has a 'very limited budget', and can 'BARELY afford the work'.

According to my pricing, if it were a non-profit job:

$780 for the photography work (As an estimate.)
In reality, youre faster in post work than me, so if I billed my rates for your time on this job:
$60 * 3= $180
$60 * 3= $180
$35 * 5= $175
----------------
Total = $535

So, my invoice would be far below my proposal on your billed hours.

Neither of these quotes include usage, or media transfer. So I would charge for that usage based on number of flyers being made, or expected attendance or something.

If it were commercial, it would look more like this for me:
Quote= $1320 for shooting.
Actual...
2 half day capture @ $375= $750
I'll guess 2.5 hours doing balancing @35.00 = 87.50
I'll guess 2.5 hours retouching @ $50 = 125.00
That comes out to about $962 PLUS image licensing. Again, my quote was significantly higher as my factors literally break down things like travel, setup, etc etc.. Since I'm not itemizing those in what you gave for the work you did, it came in lower.

My 'quote' values are closer to what my actual prices are to my clients. So that is what I would probably charge.

I get the feeling this isnt shooting a highly profitable playhouse, so I would guess it is non commercial, as far as PRICING goes.

That said, I think you'd already be giving them a discount to 'fit their budget' by charging them at that lower rate.

No matter HOW you charge, I'm in 100% agreement with what's been said already, by BillsBayou, so I won't bother saying the same things over again.

I think the general word here is 7-800 AFTER your discount to the friend. It's also my policy to write the invoice out at full rates for the work I do, and HAVE a line that SAYS "Discount based on negotiated terms............ -$100.00" (Or whatever the discount is)

Ultimately, people will say what you charged, even if you ask them not to. But you don't want to turn your discounted rate into your normal rate.

Bruce

[gooble]

What's the general definition of a copyright release? Is it giving the client permission to use certain images as I stipulate?

Do you ever find people who want to buy the copyright from you? What would you charge for that?

Also, my question regarding the use of images on a performers website was not related to my job in the original post. I just wondered what you would charge for letting them use say, fifty 800x1200 images on their website. $5, $10 per images for non-transferable use on the site?

[michael_]

for the time you took to shoot i would be chargin a minimum 4hrs because in reality if you had another job you would only get 4 more hours out of the day, as for the rest it seems reasonable.

if someone wants to buy the copyright i guess you need to sit down and work out if you would make money on the images in the future, if not then i would simply offer it at a premium price like $200 per image, remember buy doing this they can then do there own prints, run advertising with the images so again you need to look at the shots and see if you would be able to use them again, to me if not i would, from what you have described it sounds very specific so the images would probably only get a few usages out of them if that.