getting a new camera: please help!

[J___]

hi guys!
i've decided to sell my A70 for a sony F828 (please dont call me trator)

i have a question please help:
what's SLR mean... i know the F828 is not SLR. wat r the advatanges/disadvantages

i really want a 10D but dont have the $$$ for it =T

and for you guys that know about the F828 can you guys gimme some advice/ comments on it weither it's a good camera or not?

thank you!!

edit: i know the sony F828 has both slots for memory stick and CF card... which should i get? which is better and does 1 tend to be faster than the otehr?

and whats the difference if i save the file in RAW or TIFF format than JPEG? the F828 takes 12 seconds to save a picture in RAW , 10s to save in TIFF :shock: and 1.5 to save in jpeg

[neo_xeno]

SLR = Single Lens Reflex. when u look through the viewfinder of one, ur looking into a mirror that reflects the image from the lens. when u hit the shutter the mirror flips up and the shot hits the image sensor right behind the mirror. it works the exact same way whether ur using film or digital.

[J___]

oh ic. so it's the EXACT image u see from the viewfinder as in the lense. whereas non SLR viewfinders are a duplicate of the actual image through the lense so it'll be not as acurate as teh actual picture?
thnx

[Jesper]

Yes. With most, but not all, non-SLR cameras you are looking through a viewfinder which is apart from the lens. That means you don't see exactly what the camera "sees". This difference is called parallax error.

Some compact digital cameras, including the Sony DSC F-828, have an electronic viewfinder (EVF). So when you look through the viewfinder, you're actually looking at an electronic screen. With an EVF, you are seeing what the camera sees through the lens, just like with an SLR camera.

There are other major differences between compact digital cameras and digital SLRs. The most important ones are:

- DSLRs have a much larger image sensor, which makes the image quality much better, especially at higher ISO settings
- DSLRs don't have shutter lag - i.e., with compact cameras, when you press the shutter it takes a short while before the actual image is recorded. With a DSLR, it goes almost instantly.

Note that the image quality of a DSLR is almost always better than that of a compact digital camera, even though the compact camera may have more megapixels. The number of megapixels is not the most important characteristic of a digital camera, even though the marketing department of the digital camera companies try to make you believe that...

Here is an article that explains a bit more.
Digicams vs. DSLRs (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/digicams-vs-dslrs.shtml).

[J___]

thnx guys for ur explanations!.
and jesper for the article.

i've done more research on the F828 and found most ppl disliked it over the older 717 because of it's poor image quality. i think i'd just get teh 717

i would love to buy a dslr but they're too much... well the canon ones

can u guys suggest any reasonably price nikon ones? within the price range of the F828? thnx!

[PacAce]

thnx guys for ur explanations!.
and jesper for the article.

i've done more research on the F828 and found most ppl disliked it over the older 717 because of it's poor image quality. i think i'd just get teh 717

i would love to buy a dslr but they're too much... well the canon ones

can u guys suggest any reasonably price nikon ones? within the price range of the F828? thnx!

Have you considered the digital rebel (300D) or even the Powershot Pro1 which is an EVF-type camera just like the Sony F828 with the same pixel count, etc.?

[Jesper]

edit: i know the sony F828 has both slots for memory stick and CF card... which should i get? which is better and does 1 tend to be faster than the otehr?

and whats the difference if i save the file in RAW or TIFF format than JPEG? the F828 takes 12 seconds to save a picture in RAW , 10s to save in TIFF :shock: and 1.5 to save in jpeg

Get CF !!! Memory stick is something that only fits in Sony cameras, whereas Compact Flash is a standard used by a lot of camera manufacturers. If you ever get another camera, the chances are bigger that it takes CF cards and not memory sticks (unless it's a Sony). CF cards are also a lot cheaper than memory sticks.

RAW, TIFF, JPEG: JPEG images are compressed using a lossy compression algorithm, which means that, depending on the setting, you loose some of the detail in the image. See JPEG Compression (http://www.photo.net/learn/jpeg/). With TIFF and RAW, the image is not compressed the same way as with JPEG. You'll get all the detail the camera saw, but at the cost of a larger file size.

What RAW format is and why you want or not want to use it, is also a subject about which you could write a whole book....

See also RAW, JPEG and TIFF (http://www.photo.net/learn/raw/).

[J___]

oh now i understand. i'm guessing for me i dont really need to record in RAW format. i'm just taking the pictures then posting online.

paceace: yes i'm considering that now! but does the 300D come with a lense? or do i have to buy a lense, if so, how much do they cost? can i get a 300D+lense for the price of an F828?
thnx

[Penguin_101_1]

oh now i understand. i'm guessing for me i dont really need to record in RAW format. i'm just taking the pictures then posting online.

paceace: yes i'm considering that now! but does the 300D come with a lense? or do i have to buy a lense, if so, how much do they cost? can i get a 300D+lense for the price of an F828?
thnx

You can get a kit lens with it for an extra. Check at your local camera store. You will be glad that you get the DSLR in the long run. What is the price of the sony?

You can buy the DSLR and get a lens that works for your needs. Telephoto or wide angle.

[DocFrankenstein]

Go with the DSLR. Wait for a month or two if you have to. I've seen refurb rebels with the kit lens for 100 cad. That's 750 usd.

You can buy a used one even cheaper. Go for it, it's a much better camera.

[J___]

um the sony goes for $1200cad? not too sure. i'm in shanghai right now and thats how much they cost here.

i'm planning on getting either F717 or 300D now

but whats the problem that SLR's have with dust getting in the sensor/prism?? i read it was a problem with all slrs?


whats the difference in image quality of 300D and 10D?

thnx

[RoB_m]

um the sony goes for $1200cad? not too sure. i'm in shanghai right now and thats how much they cost here.

i'm planning on getting either F717 or 300D now

but whats the problem that SLR's have with dust getting in the sensor/prism?? i read it was a problem with all slrs?


whats the difference in image quality of 300D and 10D?

thnx

the image quality between the 300D and 10D is very similar if not the same. they use the same sensor.

[Penguin_101_1]

Dust always gets on sensors. It happens. There are many ways to clean them but I am not going to tell you because I have a SLR that is film and it may be diffrent. It happens even more if you change the lenses a lot. It won't happen at all if you don't change them.

[RichardtheSane]

It won't happen at all if you don't change them.

Only if your lens is environmentally sealed... ;)

if it isn't dust can still get in, just less of it :)

[Penguin_101_1]

It won't happen at all if you don't change them.

Only if your lens is environmentally sealed... ;)

if it isn't dust can still get in, just less of it :)

My lens is enviormentally sealed. :twisted:

Where would the dust get in?

[J___]

ah. i'm leaning towards a 300D. a fellow member has a nice deal on one right now. i'm still making the final decision =) will let everyone updated on how it turns out... then if i get a 300D i'll be up here 24/7 buggin everyone on how to use it haha :lol:

[DocFrankenstein]

Go for the dSLR. You're gonna love the pics and you're gonna be in great shape. Cause once I got into DSLR photography I've been eating oatmeals only.

But I'm happy and want more :shock:

[Penguin_101_1]

Go for the dSLR. You're gonna love the pics and you're gonna be in great shape. Cause once I got into DSLR photography I've been eating oatmeals only.

But I'm happy and want more :shock:

[DSLR User] You can afford oatmeal! Wow! You must be rich! [/DSLR User] :)

[Belmondo]

[DSLR User] You can afford oatmeal! Wow! You must be rich! [/DSLR User] :)

And all that fiber will turn you into a regular photographer.

[J___]

lol.. i'm quite thin actually... hmmm this makes me recosider getting a 300D... it'll make me so thing that i'll be barely able to hold up the cam... what good is haveing a good camera if i cant even take pics with it! :wink:

[Jesper]

lol.. i'm quite thin actually... hmmm this makes me recosider getting a 300D... it'll make me so thing that i'll be barely able to hold up the cam... what good is haveing a good camera if i cant even take pics with it! :wink:

Note that the 300D is actually lighter than the Sony F-828!

[J___]

haha yea... well it's all plastic in think???




i can get a 300D with kit lens + 256mb CF card + extra Canon battery for $1300 cad here in shanghai is it a good deal?

but on the camera it doesnt say "rebel digital" on the lower right corner... just says "300D digital" is the "rebel" label for north america only?

[Jesper]

It has different names in different parts in the world: Digital Rebel in the USA, Kiss Digital in Japan and 300D in the rest of the world.

[J___]

ah icic.

an unrelated question... whats the ISO settings do? i just know that higher ISO = higher noise. and higer ISO for low light situations.

anything else?

bu if i set my iso to 400 on my A70, the picture turns out sooo grainy... while the 300D has max iso of 1600 wouldnt that be impossible to have a clear pciture then?


edit: also can the 300D take video??

thnx~!

[Ken Fong]

Higher ISO settings on a digital camera have the same effect. Instead of getting more grain, you get more 'noise'...the digital equivalent of grain. There are nice tools to remove the noise such as neatimage and noise ninja on the post-capture side. I generally try not to shoot higher than ISO 800, but these noise removal tools give me more confidence to use the 800 or 1600 once in a while if needed. If you do a lot of low light photography, consider an image-stabilizing lens also.

A&M Photoworld has the 10D selling for $809 (I'm not sure if that's a refurb, but I have a feeling it is new because it is about to be replaced with a newer model.) That's a great deal for a 10D! If the delta between that and the 300D is small, go for the 10D. (I bought a backup camera Canon S50 there, which is being liquidated.)

[Penguin_101_1]

Is this real?????? http://www.amphotoworld.com/product.asp?id=cneos300d

If it is it will be on order!

[Ken Fong]

These guys seem to specialize in 'liquidated' products, so I speculate that the dRebel is also about to be upgraded. I should mention that these folks have a questionably shady practice...

I ordered the Canon S50 at $319 with free shipping. They called me back and asked if I wanted any accessories...I said no. Then they asked if I wanted the 'U.S.' model which comes with a battery and a 32MB card for $29 more...I said okay (their website says nothing about a US model). I received the unit and the invoice showed I paid $319 for the camera and $29 for shipping. I got the 'US' version, so I have no complaints and the camera is fine; but I don't know what kind of screwy accounting is going on over there.

[J___]

wow.. thats cheap...


so.. the higher the iso. the better performance in low light?

is their a link to explianing how iso works? thnx!

sorry for the newb questions.. but i always kept the settings at Auto on my A70 so i'm not too sure how to play with it on the rebel

[Ken Fong]

Yes, the higher the ISO, the 'better' the performance with respect to speed (you have a 'faster' film) so you can depend less on a tripod with faster shutter speeds. But remember that as you gain performance in speed, something has to give. In this case, you get more grain (or noise in the digital world)...so some would say you are giving up 'sharpness', and maybe your color range will be more limited. Some people like the look of a grainy photo (especially black and white photographers) because it adds mood.

If you are a film portrait user, a professional high ISO film can actually have less grain than a consumer-grade low ISO film. For example professional Fuji NPH 400 film (great wedding film) has less grain than a consumer grade 100 film. So it may be worth it to pay a little more for the professional film.

Some Q&A on ISO can be found at:
http://www.betterphoto.com/forms/qnaDetail.asp?threadID=8984

[J___]

great! thanx ken!

[Andy_T]

Is this real?????? http://www.amphotoworld.com/product.asp?id=cneos300d

If it is it will be on order!

Don't post your order before reading this...
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1988.html

I think that says it all :(
If it's too good to be true, than it most likely isn't true...

Best regards,
Andy

[J___]

i love teh 300D!!! but one thing i wanna ask the 300d owners... when the camera is off, there's a little "clinging" rattling sound within the camera when i give it a little shake... is that normal? i'm guessing it's the mirror inside? can anyone confirm

thnkz!!!

[Belmondo]

Yes. We discussed this a while ago and determined it was either:
1. The built-in flash
2. The sensor that determines whether the camera is being held in portrait or landscape mode.

#2 is the most likely. Don't worry about it.

[Lamplight]

bu if i set my iso to 400 on my A70, the picture turns out sooo grainy... while the 300D has max iso of 1600 wouldnt that be impossible to have a clear pciture then?

I imagine the DRebel at ISO 1600 will surprise you. ;) I recently shot some pictures using 1600 and I actually had to look very closely to see the noise in the picture. 8)

Oh, and the Rebel cannot do video. Also be forewarned: If you get a DSLR camera, you will most likely end up wanting all sorts of cool accessories to go with it. :D

[J___]

oh i've seen the 1600 iso images i took~! it's AMAZING!! surely an huge improvement even from my A70 400iso

but the images of daylight photos dont seem to be clear.... not as clear as my A70... am i choosing the wrong settings? or does it have to do with the kit lense being poor at those ranges? take pictures of a building from across the street and it out less than my expectation..

or is there something wrong with my camera?


ps: i found the "clingin" sound.. it's coming form the flash when it's closed... anyone else have this clinging?

[Jon]

What settings are you using? Could you post a couple (sections, not a resized full-frame)?

[J___]

actually they turn out very clear. lol
nevermind they just looking blurry in the lcd screen. but on my computer it's very clear... lets hope.

i will take more daytime pictures outside tomorow and post the info.


another question: when i use a 256mb card set it to the biggest and finest jpeg format, and set it in the "creative zone", it says i can take 76 pictures, but when i turn it to auto or other presets (not including portrait) it turns to 65 availabe pictures... ???
why???

[Jon]

PThe canned zones assume that they'll set whatever ISO they think you need. In Creative Zone, you get to set the ISO. Higher ISO settings tend to create larger files. But the number it displays in either case is only a GUESS. I've got up to 600 images on a 1 GB card that claimed initially to have room for 400.

[J___]

so thats why, thanks jon!