Struggling Glamour photograher ...help

[weka2000]

I have spent yrs looking at this section admiring the work of many.

Now I get to take photos of models. However I struggle. I cannot seem to get my directing sorted, add to this I cannot pre-visualise the final result in my head.

So how do you direct models, can this be learnt and if so how. Do you guys have a set of poses you follow?

Any advice and ideas of how to get over this hurdle would be welcome.

My website is fine in the end result and models are always happy but I feel it more by luck rather than design and planning.

[matusciac]

don't worry it will come to you... :)

[George Chew]

Greetings,
The more you shoot, the more you will understand what works and what doesn't. Also, you interpersonal skills and communications will improve too. Last but not least, you must enjoy doing it and all things will come in naturally. Enjoy...

[Olm02R]

or for poses...read a lot of magazines to get some ideas on poses.

[focker]

I really believe the best way to gain confidence and learn how to pose is to take some hands on fashion workshops with great photographers. They will guide you through poses that look good and as you work with a variety of models through the day you will really start to just take over and know what looks good. I can't say enough about how this has helped me.

[Kagemaru]

Greetings,
The more you shoot, the more you will understand what works and what doesn't. Also, you interpersonal skills and communications will improve too. Last but not least, you must enjoy doing it and all things will come in naturally. Enjoy...

This is excellent advice. You just have to go out there and do it over and over again. You can't expect to create a masterpiece on your first try.

I really believe the best way to gain confidence and learn how to pose is to take some hands on fashion workshops with great photographers. They will guide you through poses that look good and as you work with a variety of models through the day you will really start to just take over and know what looks good. I can't say enough about how this has helped me.

That worked for me!

[DwightMcCann]

I have no sympathy! You are an ace photographer! You have superb communications skills. You do whine a bit more than necessary, but we can forgive that! Check the FAQ and read the links. Take workshops ... Dave and I are doing Frank Doorhof's in L.A. at the end of the month. And to be honest, I don't think I'll ever get the hang of it, either ... and I am always embarrassed that I wind up stepping on my tongue with the models. But most are very cool and will work with you. So, post your stuff and let's get to business.

[Flo]

I went through your gallery.and I wish I had your concern;)
I picked out the ones I think are fabulously done....like you need me to tell you;)
#44 is stunning.
#14 is too fun! Love her expression
others I liked especially are 17,32,37,38

[pakololo]

one tip. get off these forums...stop looking and start shooting.

[sissi]

it is not luck, it is natural.
I cannot much help you with that, rather than this:
when i do something or just walking around and seeing something nice, seeing some scene in movie or music clip i like, i remmember it or make notes and than trying to reproduce it.
Hope it helps...

[weka2000]

Thanks for all the tips and advice. I guess often we only see the final results and never see the photographer struggle.
Dwight fair comments :) I guess one has to be willing to "step on their tongue" which I havnt. Ive played very safe and never offended anyone.

[DwightMcCann]

Dwight fair comments :) I guess one has to be willing to "step on their tongue" which I havnt. Ive played very safe and never offended anyone.
Crap, I can't get through a day without offending someone ... not intentionally, honest, but I just don't have the personality to spend half my time figuring out if I'm going to upset somebody ... they're just gonna' hafta' be responsible for their own feelings and if they think I am a jerk or worse that's really OK with me ... life for me is not a popularity contest!

[weka2000]

Crap, I can't get through a day without offending someone ... not intentionally, honest, but I just don't have the personality to spend half my time figuring out if I'm going to upset somebody ... they're just gonna' hafta' be responsible for their own feelings and if they think I am a jerk or worse that's really OK with me ... life for me is not a popularity contest!

So you are saying the final shot is worth it? Does the model agree?
In any other situation im the same. I dont walk softly.

I dont want a bad repution as a "sleezy" photographer. Auckland is to small and the model pool is small. The model should be respected at all times, however Ive seen other photographer push the model a bit harder and the shots show.

[DwightMcCann]

So you are saying the final shot is worth it? Does the model agree?
In any other situation im the same. I dont walk softly.

I dont want a bad repution as a "sleezy" photographer. Auckland is to small and the model pool is small. The model should be respected at all times, however Ive seen other photographer push the model a bit harder and the shots show.
I meant in all of life, not just shooting people. Yes, you must be respectful, particularly with models who are subjected to a lot of stuff, which is quite compatible with being honest ... just not sharing everything that comes to mind. As for sleazy, nothing leaves my computer that I wouldn't show my wife, mother, daughter or fellow photographers ... I'm about as far from sleazy as I can imagine. I just meant that I do tend to look at beautiful women, usually inversely proportionally to amount of clothes they are wearing.

[LBaldwin]

Hey Wekka,

First is to take control of the shoot. No foolin, establlish with everyone at the shoot that you are the king. Any thing other than that will create a division of focus. That shows up in the images right away. Next look at the model closely, make sure that she knows what of her physique that you like and some things that you may not like. That way she does not waste time showing or attempting poses that do not please your eye.

Don't worry about speed but keep an even tempo. Again the king sets the pace. If you don't like something say so in a positive way but shoot it any way first. Holding back the shot may make the model wonder what is going on.

Keep a positive vibe but don't be phoney. Work with experienced models first and new faces later when you learn how you like to direct. Experienced models know the poses they generally look best at and you can get those out of the way first.

Try this, pick a body part and work on images that use that part in a prominate way. I use the eyes. I make sure that I like the eyes in every shot. Then I work on the chin, then I work with the shoulders arms and so on. This really is the best way to learn. Use her left and right and not yours.

I hope this helps,

Les

[weka2000]

Yes most of my models are new. Some are naturals and extroverts. Others are very unsure of themselves.

Les good advice. Dwight all my model photos are wife safe......she checks :lol:

Sounds like I need to learn 2 things. 1) Take control 2) Be confident.

I have a paid shoot on Monday. I just picked up a deal with the owner of a model company to be the photographer for her company.

[LBaldwin]

BTW you will never be complety satisfied with your work. NEWSFLASH if you ever satisfied, it is time to hang up your gear....

Keep shooting,

Les

[weka2000]

Got some feed back from a model Ive done 2 shoot with this month. Her comment was the models to expect to be directed by the photographer.

[LBaldwin]

Looking through your online portfolio I see other issues too,
1. On your brunettes against dark background there needs to be more seperation between the subject and the backgrounds.
2. When ever possible have the models use both eyes equally toward you. If you look at a batch of images and all have the same amount of head turn away from the camera, then the model is using her dominate eye to watch you with, mix it up. Learn to tell the model with your hands or head the direction you want her to turn or tilt her head.
3. Watch your camera level, the best shots of the female form usaully come at a fairly low level, between her knees and hips is a great start.
4. When directing the model use her left and right not yours, so her left is camera right.
5. Watch for bulging triceps, abs and quads. Nothing bugs me more than seeing a you lady leaning on her hands hard, making her normally beautiful arms puff out like a certain CA Gov. Teach the model to bare her weight with her abs, not her arms when leaning back.
6. Focus on the eyes, don't chop off limbs....

Les

[akiwi]

Some good advice there.
I also have a collection of photos & poses I like, and sometimes late in a shoot when I am running out of ideas I will browse through these for inspiration. Having them printed so you can lay it on the ground in front of the model also helps so she knows what you are after.

[DwightMcCann]

Looking through your online portfolio I see other issues too,
1. On your brunettes against dark background there needs to be more seperation between the subject and the backgrounds.
2. When ever possible have the models use both eyes equally toward you. If you look at a batch of images and all have the same amount of head turn away from the camera, then the model is using her dominate eye to watch you with, mix it up. Learn to tell the model with your hands or head the direction you want her to turn or tilt her head.
3. Watch your camera level, the best shots of the female form usaully come at a fairly low level, between her knees and hips is a great start.
4. When directing the model use her left and right not yours, so her left is camera right.
5. Watch for bulging triceps, abs and quads. Nothing bugs me more than seeing a you lady leaning on her hands hard, making her normally beautiful arms puff out like a certain CA Gov. Teach the model to bare her weight with her abs, not her arms when leaning back.
6. Focus on the eyes, don't chop off limbs....

Les

Excellent ... just copied the above to a file to put in my posing materials along with posing guides, etc.

[LBaldwin]

Thank you Dwight coming from you that is a compliment, love your concert work.

Les

[Inspired Photography]

I am still new to glamour too, and especially towards the end of a shoot i start to fail coming up with ideas for posing etc.

Practice makes perfect, that's about all there is to it. And as mentioned previously, keep looking over your work. If your new stuff doesn't trump your stuff from 6-12mths ago, find a new profession :D

Rob

[wendyc]

IMHO a lot of what you are looking for comes from within. Its that ability to get on well with people and the ease of directing results from good people skills and being comfortable with them, and thus them being comfortable with you.

Thats what you need to work on, relax and it will all come together, especially with the technical skills, great advice from Les.

[LBaldwin]

I actually learned alot from a company called PCA here in the states. They provided much of my early basic training is poses and I applied much of that to what I shoot today. At that time they used a set of guidelines written by the PPof A. They also had a quite good training program along with that.

I too scour the books and magazines for posing tips, then photocopy and make notes on the copies. This is of course fair use for education, but I often contact the photographer if possible for permission if I can. Some of my favs are Varga, Hurrell, Horst etc. Many more too.

Les

[MDJAK]

I have no sympathy! You are an ace photographer! You have superb communications skills. You do whine a bit more than necessary, but we can forgive that! Check the FAQ and read the links. Take workshops ... Dave and I are doing Frank Doorhof's in L.A. at the end of the month. And to be honest, I don't think I'll ever get the hang of it, either ... and I am always embarrassed that I wind up stepping on my tongue with the models. But most are very cool and will work with you. So, post your stuff and let's get to business.


Yea, you can always count on some soothing words of advice from old Dwight. :lol::lol:

[DwightMcCann]

Yea, you can always count on some soothing words of advice from old Dwight. :lol::lol:
So, with all the excellent advice and pointers in this thread this is what you have to offer? :p

[MDJAK]

apparently so. :)

Actually, I'm doing a shoot this evening in front of a large rock dam. I'll post some results and hope you give some constructive criticism. And leave out any sympathy you may have for me, as I am a special needs child. :(
me

[weka2000]

Yea, you can always count on some soothing words of advice from old Dwight. :lol::lol:

I didnt have a problem with what he said. Beats the usual "thats nice"

Best advice Ive been given here is always blunt and to the point :lol:

[DwightMcCann]

I didnt have a problem with what he said. Beats the usual "thats nice"

Best advice Ive been given here is always blunt and to the point :lol:
Dr. Jak has been commenting on my comments rather than thread content for a long time so I just acknowledge it. We have a few folks on POTN for whom this is easier than putting their ass on the line with a critical or negative (and useful) comment. I didn't think you'd have a problem with it or I wouldn't have said it that way.

[weka2000]

Dr. Jak has been commenting on my comments rather than thread content for a long time so I just acknowledge it. We have a few folks on POTN for whom this is easier than putting their ass on the line with a critical or negative (and useful) comment. I didn't think you'd have a problem with it or I wouldn't have said it that way.


LOL.

[Murphy66]

Keep in mind that there are many shooters in the forum who are far better with a model than I am but here goes:

1 - The NOSE! Yes, the nose, the schnoz, the pointy thing in front casts a shadow. That shadow is typically called the butterfly or the loop or the Rembrandt. Once I get the shadow on the face I'm looking for then the poses seem to flow from that. I will keep the model in that same basic position and have her pose in that light.

That light typically echoes into the cleavage shadow, the collarbone shadows, etc.

2 - Catchlights are mandatory. Unless you're doing something special, make sure you have light in the eyes. When hair is in the way, hold your shot and have her move it.

3 - Learn some basic poses. One I use a lot is 'The Twist'.

a - Feet and hips at a 90 degree angle to the camera
b - twist the TORSO, not the hips to the camera
c - front arm on the hip making a 'V' so you can see the background through it. This shows off the waistline and how shapely her figure is.
d - back arm in a similar, relaxed pose or straight down along her leg.
e - nose to the camera to start and then turn to get the best nose shadow.

The 'Twist' works pretty well with models who are a little 'thick' in the middle. A modification of this is to have them inhale while twisting, it pulls the belly in and the breasts out. Good posture is mandatory but it must look relaxed.

I'm serious, get out of your chair and try this, you'll have to demo it more than you think!

And you thought being a model was easy...

"We have a few folks on POTN for whom this is easier than putting their ass on the line with a critical or negative (and useful) comment."

For the record, this is my ass officially on the line now!

[freddycr]

LOLOL...I had never thought about the nose as an indicator for the shadows...but I'm sure gonna try it!!!
What I do is I have a repertoire for basic poses. I start the model from any of them and direct her on variations of same. Move your head-left, right,arms up, arms down,look up look down,etc.
As for the lights & shadows, I look at the overall effect.- shoot and correct.
The initial stages of any of my shoots are devoted to lights arrangement and light balance.
There's no set configuration, because variations may depend on factors such as the color of the model's skin and/or her clothing, color of BG, her height, the particular pose, etc..
And of course,there's the good days-bad days factor !!!

Good luck ! :)

[weka2000]

Thanks guys these are really helpful.
I have a shoot tonight, had a no show on Monday and I was already to take control :lol: