High Res CD or Proofs (marked/not-marked)

[Cujo_34]

I've been researching wedding photography for the past two weeks or so to find a photographer for my own wedding but also to get ideas/insight on shootings weddings myself. I was requested by a friend (who kept persisting after I informed them that wedding's weren't my thing and I haven't shot any yet) to shoot her wedding which I finally agreed to do when I found out I had approximately two years to learn the necessary skills for this particular area -- as background I generally photograph bands in low lit situations (bars, small stages/venues), animals and getting into landscape so I do have a small background in photography, just not weddings and posing people.

But enough with the background and onto the main question(s).

Through reading on here as well as local photographer's sites and feedback from inquiries I find that there are two camps (one sub-camp) -- one which releases high resolution images on CD to the client and one that releases proofs in usually 4x6 format to the client. These proofs either come with a copyright/mark on them or they don't. For the people handing out the proofs they then offer the print sale through themselves as additional cost after the package.

Broken down you have:

Photographer A - package which includes high res cd for printing on your own if you want (sometimes proofs come as well as some select photos in 8x10s etc)

Photographer B - package features proofs and some select photos but any additional photos are ordered through photographer at varying rates (some seeming quite high)

I understand the "selling of a service" aspect for the most part behind Photographer B and this is mostly because I think I'm a photographer myself as well as provide other services. However when talking with friends/acquaintances they think that if they are paying thousands of dollars for photography they should get a CD of the images on it.

Where do you stand in this debate?

Searching locally for photographers Photographer A is usually the lowered price photographer (although I still think quality is in there in their portfolio, I was actually shocked at some of the prices they provided) whereas Photographer B is higher priced with their low package starting above Photographer A's and the additional cost of prints added to that -- I also believe his photos are not above the other photographer's either. This struck me as odd.

Looking to start out on my own the CD/proof debate arises and I'm wondering what those with some experience behind them think (I've read different threads on this forum that touched on this here and there).

(Sorry for the long post ;))

[picturecrazy]

I give the disc out. That's just the way I do it. I don't do it for commercial shoots, but weddings are just a little too personal to withold it from them.

So I've priced my packages to assume that I'll get NO print sales at all. As it turns out, about half of them do order a few hundred in prints anyways. Those who want pro prints get them. Those who don't, well... don't. In the end, everybody is happy, because nobody feels 'forced' into anything, and I'm not losing hair and stressing out about people trying to print scanned proofs, arguing with me that the CD is a ripoff, etc... I get the income I want right up front, and I'm still getting bonuses in print sales. Clients get exactly what they want. Everybody wins.

Yeah, many photographers think I'm the devil or something for including the disc in every wedding, but I don't care. I like to live as much of a stress free life as possible, and this is one of the ways that helps me do it.

Have you noticed that almost all the disgruntled, upset, and venting posts have to do with arguments over discs and copying of proofs? I have nothing against that business model AT ALL, but it's just not for me.

[tim]

I do electronic proofs (DVD and internet), and sell a proof book and printed proofs reasonably cheaply. I recently put the price of my proof book down to encourage people to get it, I just have to get around to doing a sample so customers can see one.

I sell the high res CD as an add-on to packages. I do one package which is just the images on CD, i've priced it so i'm happy to make a reasonable profit without relying on print or additional sales, and it's a LOT less work than making an album so i'm happy to do them occasionally. I only do album packages on Saturdays in peak season though.

[bcap]

I think in general, the negative connotation with full-res files on a CD is those low-budget photographers who do a shoot-and-burn for $800. They are giving wedding photographers a bad reputation and are lowering the value of good quality wedding photography.

As a personal note, I think that giving away the CD w/ digital images is a must. Today, with technology, clients just want it. They want to e-mail files, set them as a backdrop, add it to their facebook account, get different size prints, keep them forever, etc. That's fine, it just needs to be priced accordingly, not given away!

[Cujo_34]

Thanks for the responses so far guys. It does seem that the CD has become more acceptable but I still see the people holding tight onto the rights and that is why I asked the question.

I think you'll always have that group of people who are always scheming the lowest cost possible and skimping on quality as they think they are getting a deal.

My gf is pretty adamant on getting a CD as we're both fairly technically advanced and are capable of performing certain things on our own (resizing/optimizing for web, creating a web site for showing off, etc etc) but I also see how providing the option of making prints after you hand out the CD helps out. Both of our parents are not that computer literate and wouldn't know what to do with it and would prefer just buying prints from the photographer.

This also gives me insight into if I can map out a small niche for myself here locally. We're a smaller city and from what I've seen offered in packages so far is limited. I'd like to get into the field and be the alternative photographer, the fun one, the unconventional one who you know will bring you somewhere different, offer something different -- TTD (like it or not) is not known here at all-- and just package myself differently. If I get clients cool if not it was a good try and I'll continue on with my own thing. That's my 2 year plan anyway and I think 2 years to pick it up to start small with a couple of weddings is fair timing. Locally the CD is getting adoption but there's still a lot of "the pictures are mine, you must pay me $50 for a 8x10, $40 for a 5x7 etc etc". I do have a 2 year plan as mentioned but I can also see that spot I'm trying to fill, time will tell.

And bcap, I love your hate for the low budget shoot-and-burn $800 photographer ;)

[MarkAnthonyPhotography]

I must agree with everyone here. Though coming up the biz I was told to NEVER give away your images, It is something of the norm for the photographer to give a disk of High Res images to his clients. Like Tim, I don't expect the B+G to purchase any images from me so I price accordingly. If they do then its a nice bonus. I too offer a package that just offers my time and a disk of the images. It's sometimes nice to still have the fun of shooting without the workload of albums, prints, etc. Just make sure your still putting some coin in your pocket for those.

[Cujo_34]

Thanks for your input Mark.

[figmented]

agree with picturecrazy 100%!!

[jessiper]

I include the disc of the hi-res images because I wouldn't have booked a photog that didn't.

[Cujo_34]

Thanks for the new responses guys.

When I start out and put packages together I'll include the CDs.

On my search for a photog we just heard back from a very high end photog and he hands out high res DVDs so it made me feel a lot better.

[tim]

Don't include, sell. It's additional, not a required item.

[Cujo_34]

Don't include, sell. It's additional, not a required item.

By include I meant with the cost added into the packages. I'm still not fully sure what to offer completely but maybe the lower packages could have it as an addition although when looking for my own photographer right now we're steering more towards the ones who include them/offer them then the ones who don't.

[pickle1]

Hey go for it.

I do a very healthy business by offering the B&G's albums after the fact if their wedding photographer doesn't/didn't/won't.

I consider it another revenue generator from another's "given away" opportunity.

I have seen everything from the $100.00 wedding CD to the $2,000+ wedding CD. I offer them post production, prints, albums, books, booklets, slideshows and a whole lot more. Earlier this month, I turned a $100 CD in which the customer had full copyright into a net profit for me of $1,500. I also gain a future customer(s) and word of mouth advertising!

Not to sound sarcastic, but by all means continue to limit what you provide the customer. It has been a booming business and the CD only shooter has given me a golden ticket.

Again, I am not trying to be sarcastic, but by not offering them anything other than a CD is lost revenue. As they say... one man's loss is another's gain.

[Cujo_34]

Thanks Pickel. You raise some good points.

This thread definitely has me thinking on many different areas.