Canon's upgrade of the 5D: what and when?

[California4Life]

I guess this is a pretty hypothetical question, but when will Canon eventually come out with a model replacing the 5D, or at least a newer full-frame sensor body?

I'm currently shooting with the 400D and I decided to skip upgrading to the 40D. Right now, for the price, the few advantages it has over the 400D just don't make it worth upgrading (for me anyway)... and anything new that starts with the word "Mark" would put me out of house and home.

The thing is, i want to set my sights on the 5D in the future, but with all these upgrades happening every 6 months or so, should I just wait for "the new 5D" whenever it comes out... and if so, how long do you think that'll be?

[TMR Design]

At this time it's all speculation. Everyone will chime in with what they want and expect to see and would like to see but it's all optimistic guessing.

[liquefied]

For what it's worth, here's my plan:

I'm waiting for the 5D successor. When it comes out, depending on the price and features I will either buy the 5D successor or buy what should be a heavily discounted 5D. I'm currently shooting with a 20D which meets all of my needs as of now but simply annoys me being a crop camera. I don't really have any specific ideas of what I want out of the 5D successor to justify buying it but I would like it to be $3,000 or less, have at least 14mp, at least some weather sealing, and ISO 6400 or 12800. I don't really care about fps (as long as it stays at 3fps or so), live view, or anti-dust.

[calicokat]

For what it's worth, here's my plan:

I'm waiting for the 5D successor. When it comes out, depending on the price and features I will either buy the 5D successor or buy what should be a heavily discounted 5D. I'm currently shooting with a 20D which meets all of my needs as of now but simply annoys me being a crop camera. I don't really have any specific ideas of what I want out of the 5D successor to justify buying it but I would like it to be $3,000 or less, have at least 14mp, at least some weather sealing, and ISO 6400 or 12800. I don't really care about fps (as long as it stays at 3fps or so), live view, or anti-dust.

The 5D is already selling for $2200 :eek:

[darktiger]

I am waiting to hear the final specs on the 5D replacement. That will determine if I get the 5D or it's replacement....

[cdifoto]

The 5D is already selling for $2200 :eek:

And, IMHO, it's still overpriced.

[calicokat]

And, IMHO, it's still overpriced.

I am hoping the "New 5D" will be its own platform, not a juiced up 20/30/40D

[liquefied]

The 5D is already selling for $2200 :eek:

I know this. I'm hoping for a ~$1600 or so 5D when the successor comes out.

[cdifoto]

I am hoping the "New 5D" will be its own platform, not a juiced up 20/30/40D

That's funny because I wish it was a juiced up 20/30/40D. At leas then it wouldn't be slow. Pay ~$900 for the privilege of sacrificing speed (FPS) for a bigger sensor? No thanks!

[Choderboy]

I'm not looking for any upgrade for a while , but I'll play.

Let's say it will be called the 6D.
16.8 MP , full frame , similar body improvements as 40D and also improved AF.
4 FPS. 3 inch LCD obviously , live view .

We'll see.

[calicokat]

Whatever it is, lets hope its under $3000

[cy88]

That's funny because I wish it was a juiced up 20/30/40D. At leas then it wouldn't be slow. Pay ~$900 for the privilege of sacrificing speed (FPS) for a bigger sensor? No thanks!

All depends on the type of shooting that a person does right?

You wouldn't be shooting 6.5fps on landscape, would you? ;)

[cdifoto]

All depends on the type of shooting that a person does right?

You wouldn't be shooting 6.5fps on landscape, would you? ;)

Since when is the 5D billed as a "landscape camera"?

[WillOPhotos]

pshhh who needs 6.5fps :lol: I have a fast finger!

[California4Life]

Since when is the 5D billed as a "landscape camera"?

I don't think he was saying the 5D was strictly a landscape camera, just that for some people full frame might mean more to them than fps... (whereas with you, it might be the opposite)

I do have to say that if I had to shoot landscapes that were going to be printed large, I'd choose the 5D over most other bodies...

[cdifoto]

And you're both missing my point entirely.

[CartoonBear]

Then please make your point clear so that all of us can know.

[liquefied]

Ideally, I'd like to see the 5D split into two successors. We'll call them the 4D and the 6D.

The 4D would be for action/wildlife photographers who are looking for speed in a full frame package. It would have a 12-16mp sensor and do at least 5fps along with nearly 1D series weather sealing.

The 6D would be for still life/landscape/light studio photographers who value color accuracy and image quality above all else in a full frame. It would have a 14-18mp sensor, do 3fps or so like the current 5D, have very low noise and little weather sealing.

[cdifoto]

Then please make your point clear so that all of us can know.

How could I possibly get any clearer than:

Pay ~$900 for the privilege of sacrificing speed (FPS) for a bigger sensor? No thanks!

$900 is the CURRENT price difference between a 40D and a 5D. It was an even bigger leap when the 5D was first released. You were paying $2000 more to get a slower camera! All in the name of a bigger sensor. Sure, you say the buffer was fine and all that. But you had to give up the 5FPS to get no crop factor, and you paid $2000 for the privilege.

I'm sorry but for the extra 2 grand Canon could and should have kept the 5FPS in that camera.

That's why it's overpriced. And it's still overpriced when you look at how much more a 40D offers, excepting the bigger sensor.


Oh and before you bring up the 1Ds II and 1D II differences...my gripe is the same. For $8000 vs $4000 (when they debuted), Canon could (and should) have maintained 8FPS.

[CartoonBear]

From what I know about this camera (which is just all research and no personal experience) much comes with the full frame. The IQ is much better than could be found in the 40d, and its crazy performance in high ISO is one of the biggest selling points for me. I would much rather have a camera that takes a few great pics a second than one that can take a butt load of ones that could be better.

I can't be the only one that feels like this.

Why would you consider FPS so important?

[liquefied]

Many people simply don't care about fps, cdi. So the 5D is not overpriced for them. This is the point everyone else is making that I think you're missing.

[cdifoto]

My opinion is that it's overpriced because it's not a true upgrade. It's a tradeoff but for a much higher price.

I was asked to clarify my opinion. I clarified my opinion. I do not need to convince you otherwise, and you do not need to convince me otherwise.

[jdizzle]

I think the 5D is worth every penny I spent on it. It takes some great images. I can't say that the 5D is the fastest as far as FPS but, fwiw it's the sensor technology you're paying for and is much more in reach than the 1Ds II. I don't think it's arguable to say it isn't worth it CDi but, if it doesn't fit your needs and budget, don't buy it. There are alot of users that have the 5D here and they love it. Are they nuts for buying a good camera?

PS: I do understand your point tho. =)

[CartoonBear]

My opinion is that it's overpriced because it's not a true upgrade. It's a tradeoff but for a much higher price.

I was asked to clarify my opinion. I clarified my opinion. I do not need to convince you otherwise, and you do not need to convince me otherwise.


Than thanks for clarifying :)

[cdifoto]

Yes I think they're nuts. ;)

That said, I don't think FPS is the ONLY thing that's important. I use single shot for a lot of my shooting, but it strikes me as "wrong" that you have to give up that feature in a camera that you pay significantly more for. 5FPS is fine for me in a camera that's not specifically designed for sports ie a non-1D body. It's not as if the XXD cameras are geared and marketed as sports cameras either. But really...to be outspeced on that front by a camera body that's half the price...absurd.

In simple words - a camera body that costs significantly more money should have everything that the current model below it has, and then some.

[liquefied]

In simple words - a camera body that costs significantly more money should have everything that the current model below it has, and then some.

I think this is an unreasonable requirement. The camera serves a different purpose than those above and below it in price. It's like saying a 7-series BMW should out-accelerate a 3-series simply because it costs more. They're just different. Camera bodies don't necessarily have to be a linear progression of features - in fact they shouldn't be.

[tomhide]

I spent plenty of time researching sample shots made from this camera from various photographers around the world and it was enough for me to say the price for this camera was worth every cent for me. That was even after considering next gen 5D might be announced very soon.

I concentrate on what the camera can do and making most out of it before wishing for something the camera don't have.

[cdifoto]

I spent plenty of time researching sample shots made from this camera from various photographers around the world and it was enough for me to say the price for this camera was worth every cent for me. That was even after considering next gen 5D might be announced very soon.

I concentrate on what the camera can do and making most out of it before wishing for something the camera don't have.

You can find awesome images with a Rebel.

[tomhide]

You can find awesome images with a Rebel.

Definitely but it's not FF and the IQ is different...

[cy88]

cdifoto, I am sure you already know, but just to remind you that Full frame has the avantage of the IQ and noise control other than non-cropped FOV.

I do think Canon has the ability to pack everything into one single body for a better value (which is what Nikon is sorta doing with their D300/D3), however I also do believe that is something to do with Canon's marketing and future development direction.

While I still love my 40D and 5D, I still hold my believe that they are two different camera and should not be put in the same topic. No matter what you do with the 40D (other than maybe PP), you can't get a 40D's IQ and NC ability to match with 5D. Correct me if I am wrong.

[xarqi]

You guys all know about the several threads about the 5D MkII (or whatever) running over in the rumours section (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=83), don't you?

[liquefied]

You guys all know about the several threads about the 5D MkII (or whatever) running over in the rumours section (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=83), don't you?

Yeah, but this thread is cooler.

[condyk]

Donny lad ... one question ... have you used a 5D extensively? If yes, thanks for the opinion, if no then you're wasting my time blowing hot air out your a** ;-) The 5d is a much better camera than the 30/40/20 series if you are interested in the best possible IQ. Some a** here criticised my choice of 5D for the Africa trip because it wasn't a crop and shootin' speed, but I don't see any MkIII shots posted as yet that have better IQ. I also don't think I have seen any that the 5D couldn't have taken too, even without the speed.

[xarqi]

Yeah, but this thread is cooler.
Fair enough :)

[Ant1981]

I'd like a second 5D body, so I'll either wait for the next best thing that Canon produce, or buy another 5D next year when it's perhaps a few hundred quid cheaper.

[cy88]

I'd like a second 5D body, so I'll either wait for the next best thing that Canon produce, or buy another 5D next year when it's perhaps a few hundred quid cheaper.

..or buy the new 5D at that time and keep this as a 2nd body ;)

[datadump]

I know this. I'm hoping for a ~$1600 or so 5D when the successor comes out.

hahahah no way that 'll happen though i wouldnt complain if it actually dipped that low! the 30D is STILL around 950-999 at reputable shops even with the 40D out. i dont get why it is still a grand when you can spend a mere couple bills more for 40d... who in their right mind would buy a new 30D still?

[squiress]

We're reaching a time where even amateurs are specializing in what they shoot. It does break down into crop body shots and FF shots to me. I have two bodies (20D and 5D) because they make best use of my lenses in different situations. And yes I consider the 5D a portrait/landscape camera (and my 20D as a wildlife camera).

As to OP, I like the sound of 5D MrkII (or maybe 5Ds :) ) simply because as a prosumer camera it takes it up a notch over a '6D'. And I'd like to see the 16MP sensor and 14 bit plus dual Digic III. More FPS would be fine, but we seem more and more to be hanging our pictures on chance recordings instead of simply good technique. Not an issue with me.

Stew

[Dragos Jianu]

The IQ is much better than could be found in the 40d, and its crazy performance in high ISO is one of the biggest selling points for me.

Damn. Compared to the 40D ? There's a lot of placebo associated with spending a sh**load of $ just on a sensor. It's better but not "much" and clearly not "crazy" in absolute terms. Think IT pricing : you pay more then double for that small edge

[Flickster]

Sorry to say cdi but honestly what you are saying about the 5D is ridiculous in anything but a fairy tale world. Like others have said before, it is a very different camera to the xxD and 1D series. Just like those two cameras have a specific market they fit into so does the 5D. To say that just because it cost more it should have everything the camera bellow it has and much more is just absurd.

The manufacturing cost of the FF sensor on the 5D is way higher then the crop cameras so this alone would not have made it feasible for Canon to keep the price increase minimal, then you wanted them to also include the 5FPS and keep the current price. It is only now with the extra power of Digic III that we may get closer to 5FPS for the current price.

First of all like many have said FPS is not everything, far from. Some people have very little need for more then 3FPS. Second I' am told that the engineering(CPU power/memory) that would have been needed to process all the information from a FF sensor and keep the 5FPS would have been substantial and this would have added way more to the price of the camera.

Another person here made a good analogy with the BWM 3 series vs the 7 series, just because the 7 series cost much more should it handle better on the track and be quicker then all the 3 series... Sorry to say but that line of thought is very flawed and when it comes to a great many products the real world just doesn't work that way, there is much more to it than you make out, they are two very different products.

Don't get me wrong, I wish the world did work the way you are wanting the camera industry to function, that things were so simple and paying more meant you get more in every way:) unfortunately they are not.

[RX350]

dont forget 5-D two years old camera , and 40d just came out.
and 5-d still holds its own place .

as for FPS I rarely shot sport (maybe auto racing once or twice a year ), so why I need it , my studio light (what I use lot more ) it takes about second for them to be ready for next shot.

but 12 mp helps with large prints , and full frame works great with my lenses.
low noise also important as I shoot at night .
big viewfinder helps with manual focus . I can go on and on . it is pointless.
two different cameras , I really dont get all this 5-d VS 40d.
you buy what will work for you best .

,, I like my 5-D so much I am not sure if i will get new one then it comes out , unless its 16 mp and lower noise then current 5-d.

[cdifoto]

you're wasting my time blowing hot air out your a** ;-)

Something you seem to do with affinity on a regular basis.

However, an opinion isn't hot air. It's an opinion. I knew I'd draw fire for it.

[cdifoto]

Sorry to say cdi but honestly what you are saying about the 5D is ridiculous in anything but a fairy tale world. Like others have said before, it is a very different camera to the xxD and 1D series. Just like those two cameras have a specific market they fit into so does the 5D. To say that just because it cost more it should have everything the camera bellow it has and much more is just absurd.

The manufacturing cost of the FF sensor on the 5D is way higher then the crop cameras so this alone would not have made it feasible for Canon to keep the price increase minimal, then you wanted them to also include the 5FPS and keep the current price. It is only now with the extra power of Digic III that we may get closer to 5FPS for the current price.

First of all like many have said FPS is not everything, far from. Some people have very little need for more then 3FPS. Second I' am told that the engineering(CPU power/memory) that would have been needed to process all the information from a FF sensor and keep the 5FPS would have been substantial and this would have added way more to the price of the camera.

Another person here made a good analogy with the BWM 3 series vs the 7 series, just because the 7 series cost much more should it handle better on the track and be quicker then all the 3 series... Sorry to say but that line of thought is very flawed and when it comes to a great many products the real world just doesn't work that way, there is much more to it than you make out, they are two very different products.

Don't get me wrong, I wish the world did work the way you are wanting the camera industry to function, that things were so simple and paying more meant you get more in every way:) unfortunately they are not.

It's not such a fairy tale world. I don't ask for much. But I always vote with my wallet. I'm sure I'm not the only one to have done the same.

[samsen]

cdifoto

Loved your statement.
I did it all the time but never payed attention that I too "Vote with my Wallet"

[Dragos Jianu]

I'm with CDI on this one : all this "different camera" thing is just marketing bull****. A way Canon can squeeze some extra $ from you. Look at Nikon. Their current lineup is perfectly incremental. You pay 4000$ more for a 1Ds3 and you only get a slightly larger sensor and more MP trading fps for it. U can buy a damn workstation for 4000$. make is quadcore for all i care, for that kind of money i think i deserve it. Lets get serious, those DigicIII chips are dirt cheap considering the prices of dual core computer CPUs. The only reasonable explanation is DIRTY MARKETING.
Just like saying you can't have 100% viewfinder, weather sealing and proAF under 4500$. Nikon changed that preconception too...It's just MARKETING.

[cdifoto]

I'm not asking for a full frame 1 Series sports mega camera for $2500. No, far from that.

I'm just asking that you don't say "you can have full frame, but you have to give up speed, even though you're paying more."

5FPS on a 5D wouldn't be an extra feature. It'd be a feature NOT removed. The 5D wasn't completely re-engineered. Canon took a 20D and rehashed it. They did the same for the 300D/Rebel compared to the 10D. They pulled some features off...hacks bring some of those back. The difference is they didn't raise the price! The 5FPS would cost nothing to implement. So what if I have to wait a few more seconds to clear my buffer due to the large files? At least they wouldn't have taken away something I already had in a "lesser" camera.

5FPS would be plenty on a non-1D camera. But 3FPS is what my 10D can do. It's an insult to limit a the 5D to that.

You may not need it if you do weddings, portraits, and/or landscapes...but it doesn't hurt to have it. I know I'd use it at weddings for key moments.

[CartoonBear]

Damn. Compared to the 40D ? There's a lot of placebo associated with spending a sh**load of $ just on a sensor. It's better but not "much" and clearly not "crazy" in absolute terms. Think IT pricing : you pay more then double for that small edge


sry bout this, i really shouldnt be making claims like how much better the IQ is on the 5d than the 40d b/c i honestly have no personal experience. But the high ISO quality is crazy (this is very subjective statement, especially considering my current body)

will do my best not to do this again :)

[Dragos Jianu]

sry bout this, i really shouldnt be making claims like how much better the IQ is on the 5d than the 40d b/c i honestly have no personal experience. But the high ISO quality is crazy (this is very subjective statement, especially considering my current body)

will do my best not to do this again :)

think this one sums things up objectively http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_40D/noise.shtml

Honestly, not enough to lose sleep over, neither in terms of resolution nor in terms of noise. I compared the 5D and the 20D hands on side by side and decided against the upgrade. now with the 40D the IQ difference is even smaller, clearly not worth 2x the price. I might be retarded, Michael Reichmann might be insane but all the others coming to the same conclusion comparing them side by side can't be all wrong.

Simple truth is that difference at 100% means nothing in terms of real world prints.



"There is an axiom among web and print magazine reviewers that as soon as a new camera review appears there will be a flurry of postings on one of the better known discussion boards that has brand specific forums that decry the writers findings. Oh no! It can't be! That's not right. What an idiot! My uncle's best friend says it's not true. My cat pictures prove that he's wrong. Of course the fact that they may not have ever even held the camera in question, let alone shot with it is beside the point. The fact that they've been doing photography since last Wednesday, and the reviewer has been at it for nearly a half century counts for naught. If their sacred cow is being gored (sorry for the mixed metaphor) facts and experience don't matter. Also, until the patron saint of digital camera testing (you know who he is) has blessed a camera with his charts and graphs the pixel-peepers won't tolerate dissention.
Such was the case with the above review. I was vilified online for claiming that the Canon 40D had overall IQ (Image Quality) comparable to that of the 5D. And since my commentary appeared online before any other well known equipment reviewer or pundit had an opportunity to do any testing, the Chicken Littles enjoyed a field day.
Today the highly respected photographer and photographic educator Miles Hecker, has published a brief review on his web site (http://wyofoto.com/40D_Image%20quality/40D_shootout.html) showing examples of the IQ differences between the 20D, 5D and the new 40D. His results and conclusions closely parallel mine (gee, I'm so surprised).
Maybe the sky is falling after all."
http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/canon-40D-handson.shtml

[CartoonBear]

Hey cool! Thanks for posting these links!

after seeing this...I don't really see why one would really choose the 5D over the 40d....could you remind me?


(im still leaning towards the 5d)

[cy88]

I'm with CDI on this one : all this "different camera" thing is just marketing bull****. A way Canon can squeeze some extra $ from you. Look at Nikon. Their current lineup is perfectly incremental. You pay 4000$ more for a 1Ds3 and you only get a slightly larger sensor and more MP trading fps for it. U can buy a damn workstation for 4000$. make is quadcore for all i care, for that kind of money i think i deserve it. Lets get serious, those DigicIII chips are dirt cheap considering the prices of dual core computer CPUs. The only reasonable explanation is DIRTY MARKETING.
Just like saying you can't have 100% viewfinder, weather sealing and proAF under 4500$. Nikon changed that preconception too...It's just MARKETING.

No offense, just go to Nikon.

[Dragos Jianu]

No offense, just go to Nikon.

Nah, been there, done that. Neither Canon nor Noink are perfect. They both have their flaws and strong points. Competition is what drives technology further so I'm honestly happy for them (and us).I'll just wait for Canon's reply to the newfound competition :) As long as i can take the pictures i'm a happy camper :)

Cheers

[scokar]

...Just like saying you can't have 100% viewfinder, weather sealing and proAF under 4500$. Nikon changed that preconception too...It's just MARKETING.

^^^MISCONCEPTION :)

i'm one of those that believe a lot of the "specialization" of cameras is a means of separating more money from one's wallet.

[Flickster]

I'm with CDI on this one : all this "different camera" thing is just marketing bull****. A way Canon can squeeze some extra $ from you. Look at Nikon. Their current lineup is perfectly incremental. You pay 4000$ more for a 1Ds3 and you only get a slightly larger sensor and more MP trading fps for it. U can buy a damn workstation for 4000$. make is quadcore for all i care, for that kind of money i think i deserve it. Lets get serious, those DigicIII chips are dirt cheap considering the prices of dual core computer CPUs. The only reasonable explanation is DIRTY MARKETING.
Just like saying you can't have 100% viewfinder, weather sealing and proAF under 4500$. Nikon changed that preconception too...It's just MARKETING.

I don't disagree with this or a number of things CDI said, I do think Canon is involved in some dirty marketing BS and agree those Digic III chips shouldn't cost much but at the end of the day whatever we think about Canon's marketing tactics is not going to change much.

Plenty of people that have the money to spend, including myself will still buy a 5D or 1D and its successor because there is nothing out at the moment that can hold a candle to the 5D and have the FF and IQ for the same price, then you have to take into account the investment in glass that many of us have. Canon know this so they see no need to throw 5FPS into the camera, if they had done that 2 years ago it would have started to take a good part of it's 1D market share and this they don't want.

I could vote with my wallet but then I would primarily be hurting myself because many things the 5D can offer for the price, be it high are still unmatched by any camera of a lower price. Good outside competition is what is needed, the day this happens is the day Canon won't be able to pull so many dirty marketing stunts on us. Competition is the reason the 40D is such good value for money, this is not to say the 5D is not a fantastic camera but unfortunately until we get some good FF competition I don't see things changing with Canon.

[Tom W]

Many people simply don't care about fps,...

I gave up 8 fps for a 5D around 3 years ago. I'm happy with my decision.

[jdizzle]

The reason I have a 5D is for FF. If your so worried about fps get the 40D or MK III. I have both and now it's the best of both worlds. If the 5D doesn't fit your shooting style don't even bother. If the 5D is so expensive why worry about it if you can't afford it. Go buy the 30D/40D. The guys that are missing out on FF don't have a clue of what is prorduced out of this camera.

[corny]

Canon 5D mkII Feb 07 announcement with no stocks till June!!!
14 bit
16.7 mp
3inch screen with more pixels than current 3 inches.
Upto ISO6400 better ISO than 1D mkIII
Anti dust
Live view
19 point improved AF
5 fps ( the 10d to 20d went from 3 to 5)
Focus adjustment
No weather sealing apart from silver hot shoe.
Pointless direct print button!
sraw.
£1999 retail UK

If this be the case consider mine ordered!

5d draw backs for me are slow FPS, focus and dust. Deal with them and throw a few more toys and 'job's a good'n'

[VTSHEP1]

Canon 5D mkII Feb 07 announcement with no stocks till June!!!
14 bit
16.7 mp
3inch screen with more pixels than current 3 inches.
Upto ISO6400 better ISO than 1D mkIII
Anti dust
Live view
19 point improved AF
5 fps ( the 10d to 20d went from 3 to 5)
Focus adjustment
No weather sealing apart from silver hot shoe.
Pointless direct print button!
sraw.
£1999 retail UK

If this be the case consider mine ordered!

5d draw backs for me are slow FPS, focus and dust. Deal with them and throw a few more toys and 'job's a good'n'


Me too if you drop the price since the dollar is doing so well.

[datadump]

Me too if you drop the price since the dollar is doing so well.
lol in yer ddreams!
with that feature set, i wouldnt want a mark3

[sti jaguar]

Canon 5D mkII Feb 07 announcement with no stocks till June!!!
14 bit
16.7 mp
3inch screen with more pixels than current 3 inches.
Upto ISO6400 better ISO than 1D mkIII
Anti dust
Live view
19 point improved AF
5 fps ( the 10d to 20d went from 3 to 5)
Focus adjustment
No weather sealing apart from silver hot shoe.
Pointless direct print button!
sraw.
£1999 retail UK

If this be the case consider mine ordered!

5d draw backs for me are slow FPS, focus and dust. Deal with them and throw a few more toys and 'job's a good'n'

NOT in stock Until JUNE??? hmmm.....how accurate is this? I thought that it would be available in stores by Feb, in this case I might need to pick up a used 5D in the meantime.

[Meaty0]

Canon 5D mkII Feb 07 announcement with no stocks till June!!!
14 bit
16.7 mp
3inch screen with more pixels than current 3 inches.
Upto ISO6400 better ISO than 1D mkIII
Anti dust
Live view
19 point improved AF
5 fps ( the 10d to 20d went from 3 to 5)
Focus adjustment
No weather sealing apart from silver hot shoe.
Pointless direct print button!
sraw.
£1999 retail UK

If this be the case consider mine ordered!

5d draw backs for me are slow FPS, focus and dust. Deal with them and throw a few more toys and 'job's a good'n'


My suspicion sense is tingling. Where did this information come from?

[VTSHEP1]

lol in yer ddreams!
with that feature set, i wouldnt want a mark3

I dont think it would compete too much, still lower MP than the 1DSMkIII, less AF pts, not weather sealed.......

Yes higher MP than the 1D mkIII but no way it will work for some nature photogs and all sports photogs, 5fps is way too slow and fps is a main selling point of that camera, also again, less AF, not weather sealed....

If they release those specs in Feb. at a lesser price than 1999 pounds they will regain the marketshare they are losing to Noink

[Punisher77]

5fps is way too slow and fps is a main selling point of that camera

FPS is definitely not a main selling point of the 5D. A FF sensor and low ISO noise are the main features.

[Bob_A]

Canon 5D mkII Feb 07 announcement with no stocks till June!!!
14 bit
16.7 mp
3inch screen with more pixels than current 3 inches.
Upto ISO6400 better ISO than 1D mkIII
Anti dust
Live view
19 point improved AF
5 fps ( the 10d to 20d went from 3 to 5)
Focus adjustment
No weather sealing apart from silver hot shoe.
Pointless direct print button!
sraw.
£1999 retail UK

If this be the case consider mine ordered!

5d draw backs for me are slow FPS, focus and dust. Deal with them and throw a few more toys and 'job's a good'n'

I really hope that it won't have a 16.7 MP sensor. I'd rather see Canon make improvements to the existing sensor while keeping the MP the same.

[AdamJL]

Canon 5D mkII Feb 07 announcement with no stocks till June!!!
14 bit
16.7 mp
3inch screen with more pixels than current 3 inches.
Upto ISO6400 better ISO than 1D mkIII
Anti dust
Live view
19 point improved AF
5 fps ( the 10d to 20d went from 3 to 5)
Focus adjustment
No weather sealing apart from silver hot shoe.
Pointless direct print button!
sraw.
£1999 retail UK

If this be the case consider mine ordered!

5d draw backs for me are slow FPS, focus and dust. Deal with them and throw a few more toys and 'job's a good'n'

If that's true.. Die Canon!!!

But the rest seems pretty much bang on what everyone's predicting, making me think the poster collated the info and put it in a single post :D

[VTSHEP1]

FPS is definitely not a main selling point of the 5D. A FF sensor and low ISO noise are the main features.

Thanks, i should have been more clear, when i said "that" camera i was talking about the 1D, 5 fps is too slow for those who use the 1D for sports, and fps is one of the main selling features of the 1D:

"Yes higher MP than the 1D mkIII but no way it will work for some nature photogs and all sports photogs, 5fps is way too slow and fps is a main selling point of that camera, also again, less AF, not weather sealed...."

[VTSHEP1]

I really hope that it won't have a 16.7 MP sensor. I'd rather see Canon make improvements to the existing sensor while keeping the MP the same.

What kind of improvements would you hope for? And why not more MP?

[Tom W]

Canon 5D mkII Feb 07 announcement with no stocks till June!!!
14 bit
16.7 mp
3inch screen with more pixels than current 3 inches.
Upto ISO6400 better ISO than 1D mkIII
Anti dust
Live view
19 point improved AF
5 fps ( the 10d to 20d went from 3 to 5)
Focus adjustment
No weather sealing apart from silver hot shoe.
Pointless direct print button!
sraw.
£1999 retail UK



I don't think that you're too far off here really. We could probably quibble over the net megapixels, as I would expect that the new 5D would have a sensor that is of the same pixel density and design as the 1D3 (just as the present 5D shares pixel density and design with the 1D2n).

If this is close, I'm in and my present 5D will become the backup body. :)

[Bob_A]

What kind of improvements would you hope for? And why not more MP?

More MP does not equate to better images. If Canon bows to pressure to continue increasing MP the end result after a few product cycles will be either noisey images or needing to apply so much in camera noise reduction that the images look smeared.

The current camera has plenty of MP IMO. I'd rather see continued improvements in dynamic range along with design changes to reduce the issue of light falloff towards the edges of a ff sensor.

[sti jaguar]

I agree, 12MP is enough- I was satisfied with the 8 in my 30D but 12 will be nice and 16 is overkill. Anymore will just take up valuble harddrive space.

[VTSHEP1]

More MP does not equate to better images. If Canon bows to pressure to continue increasing MP the end result after a few product cycles will be either noisey images or needing to apply so much in camera noise reduction that the images look smeared.

The current camera has plenty of MP IMO. I'd rather see continued improvements in dynamic range along with design changes to reduce the issue of light falloff towards the edges of a ff sensor.

I agree if its a mega pixel boost for only that reason i would rather not have it either. Increasing dynamic range would be great, i hope one day a sensor will be made that can see the range of a human eye. I have not shot fullframe yet, so i havent dealt with the issues of vignetting that i think are more of an issue with the ff.

Does anyone know how the 5D and 1DsmkII sensors compare? Is is possible and does it make sense to use that sensor line (no longer in use for the 1dSmkII)? Or is it more complex than that?

[Tom W]

Does anyone know how the 5D and 1DsmkII sensors compare? Is is possible and does it make sense to use that sensor line (no longer in use for the 1dSmkII)? Or is it more complex than that?

I think that other advances in sensor design, notably the ability to make them with less expense, will bring about a new 5D sensor. I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd bet that the sensor from the 1Ds II costs a good deal more to manufacture than that of the 5D.

Also, the present 5D is reputed to present less image noise than does the 1Ds II. I wouldn't want to take a step backwards in that aspect. Low noise is one of the 5D's virtues that I rather enjoy.

[MichaelAlan_Photo]

The 5D is already selling for $2200 :eek:

And I picked one up... $500 in rebates then when you buy a Pixma Pro9000-9500 printer and a 5D at Adorama.

I will probably sell the printer then and get the discount technically reflected on the 5D making it around $1800 give or take.

When something is still vaporware you have to just go with the flow. The 5D took awesome photos and is used by pros worldwide... So getting a 5D now or a 5D mark II later is all relative... To me this camera is like gold over the 20D and 30Ds that I have used for so long...

[Blue S2]

I shot a party style event the other day at 1250 ISO. I am still amazed every time with the 5D that I really had no need to remove the noise. It was barely noticeable, and prints won't shot it. The thought of a better version of this camera is unbelievable. I will probably have to pick one up!

[freaking102]

Don't hold your breath waiting for "replacement," or you'll turn blue.
5D is fine how it is - why would Canon "replace" it?
Canon probably will keep on selling it, and discontinue it when other new cameras in their line-up have taken over market share.

[Dragos Jianu]

Quick reality check : In February Nikon is releasing the D3X as the direct competitor to the 1ds3 (in time for the Olympics) and a replacement to the D80 which will probably share, as always before, the same AF system as the D300. 51AF points for 900$???? Canon has been beaten to a pole this year. You tell me if IT (not worth calling it he/she) should react and give us some worthy bang for the buck rather then tea spoon feeding us crap. The D80 replacement will be the real Canon killer for those just entering the world of DSLR.

[liquefied]

Quick reality check : In February Nikon is releasing the D3X as the direct competitor to the 1ds3 (in time for the Olympics) and a replacement to the D80 which will probably share, as always before, the same AF system as the D300. 51AF points for 900$???? Canon has been beaten to a pole this year. You tell me if IT (not worth calling it he/she) should react and give us some worthy bang for the buck rather then tea spoon feeding us crap. The D80 replacement will be the real Canon killer for those just entering the world of DSLR.
Links please.

[_aravena]

D3X is not that cheap. Word on the new 5D is wait for the spring. Canon rep at my store is trying to get me a full confirmation. He managed to find out about the 40D couple of months before official release so he's doing the same to find out something on the new Rebel and 5D.

Ya'll know something when I do.

[danskim]

I'm with CDI on this one : all this "different camera" thing is just marketing bull****. A way Canon can squeeze some extra $ from you. Look at Nikon. Their current lineup is perfectly incremental. You pay 4000$ more for a 1Ds3 and you only get a slightly larger sensor and more MP trading fps for it. U can buy a damn workstation for 4000$. make is quadcore for all i care, for that kind of money i think i deserve it. Lets get serious, those DigicIII chips are dirt cheap considering the prices of dual core computer CPUs. The only reasonable explanation is DIRTY MARKETING.
Just like saying you can't have 100% viewfinder, weather sealing and proAF under 4500$. Nikon changed that preconception too...It's just MARKETING.

I don't think Digic III chips are the reason for expensive pro DSLRs. Canon's P+S cameras have them also.
To an extent it's marketing. It also has to do with supply and demand. I'm pretty sure there are more computers than digital cameras.... especially high end DSLRs.

Do you really think a $1,000,000 Enzo is 12x better/faster than a $80,000 M5?
There are less of them, and those that are willing to pay (or need) for them buy them.

[danskim]

Quick reality check : In February Nikon is releasing the D3X as the direct competitor to the 1ds3 (in time for the Olympics) and a replacement to the D80 which will probably share, as always before, the same AF system as the D300. 51AF points for 900$???? Canon has been beaten to a pole this year. You tell me if IT (not worth calling it he/she) should react and give us some worthy bang for the buck rather then tea spoon feeding us crap. The D80 replacement will be the real Canon killer for those just entering the world of DSLR.

Ok, let's say that true... and Canon loses on all fronts this generation.
There's always next generation. It happened for Nikon didn't it? (Assuming the above).
Of course it's not like I don't want more bang for the buck because I do, but I don't think you can really call Canon's products "crap" even if they are/will be inferior this time.
And you have to understand that Canon and Nikon and everyone else operates businesses. Their goal is to make money by increasing their profits...

Also... D80 and its replacement won't be for most people just starting with DSLRs. That's where the D40/D40x and future replacements come in.

[Pekka]

Canon's CEO says in http://china.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fsStory/index.php?sel_lang=tchinese&storyid=51881

Translation:
"We will launch powerful products. A new version of the mid range
5D will be launched with more pixels and enhanced durability to the
market. With the same price, we will release better products. "

I think this means next 5D will have more megapixels, weather sealing and fully magnesium body, and about the same price.

[cyrn]

Canon's CEO says in http://china.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fsStory/index.php?sel_lang=tchinese&storyid=51881

Translation:
"We will launch powerful products. A new version of the mid range
5D will be launched with more pixels and enhanced durability to the
market. With the same price, we will release better products. "

I think this means next 5D will have more megapixels, weather sealing and fully magnesium body, and about the same price.

Seems like they still reserve the 45pt AF for the 1 series.

Wait till Nikon intro FF equivalent of D300 consumer cam with the 51AF points. :lol:

[freakeystyley34]

Quick reality check : In February Nikon is releasing the D3X as the direct competitor to the 1ds3 (in time for the Olympics) and a replacement to the D80 which will probably share, as always before, the same AF system as the D300. 51AF points for 900$???? Canon has been beaten to a pole this year. You tell me if IT (not worth calling it he/she) should react and give us some worthy bang for the buck rather then tea spoon feeding us crap. The D80 replacement will be the real Canon killer for those just entering the world of DSLR.

If they are making a d3x, i'd love to know where you found it out, as this is the first i've heard of it.

I really don't think the d80 replacement will have the d300 AF in, as the d300 has the AF from the d3 and i'd be surprised if nikon can put pro AF in an slr selling at less than $1000.

I think canon are doing ok, but there are a few things which would win the market back over again imo:
- 1d3n. They should make an update to the 1d3 as soon as possible, before too much of the worlds press switch to nikon. They should make 16mp ish full frame, with a 1.3 crop mode with viewfinder masking, which would be about 9mp. 10fps at 9mp and 8ish at 16mp. Contrast detect AF for live view so no mirror up nonsense. Better screen on the back. A 14-24 competitor would also be amazing. I struggle to believe canon can't do better than the 14L prime when it's so much worse than a nikon zoom of the same aperture and focal length.

- 5d mk2. I really think that staying at 12mp would be the best thing. Unless you're printing really really big, you don't really need more mp than that, and if you do want to print really really big then you should get a 1ds3. By staying at 12mp the high iso noise could rival the d3 at half the price (ish). Canon will obviously want to increase the mp so realistically i think 14mp would be the best we can hope for. 5fps and weather sealing are a must as is a very good AF system, as it'll be competing with the d300 which has pro AF.

- Probably the most important launch financially is the new rebel. It's clearly the one which will sell the most worldwide. I think sticking at 10mp and going to 4fps or maybe 5 with AF from the 30d or something similar (at least 9 point) would be sensible. A better 2.5 inch screen would be the best thing to do as a 3 inch screen on the small body would be ridiculous as there wouldn't be space for anything else. Live view with contrast detect AF is a great idea to bridge the gap from the P+S.

Now i'm pretty sure canon won't do this but it just seems so wierd to me that they don't seem to do the sensible thing very often.

What do you guys think?

[DLInspire]

The 5D is already selling for $2200 :eek:

Sorry to be off topic here..but god dam calicokat....you're gear added together is ridiculously expensive..how the heck do you afford all of that lol.

[VTSHEP1]

Canon's CEO says in http://china.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fsStory/index.php?sel_lang=tchinese&storyid=51881

Translation:
"We will launch powerful products. A new version of the mid range
5D will be launched with more pixels and enhanced durability to the
market. With the same price, we will release better products. "

I think this means next 5D will have more megapixels, weather sealing and fully magnesium body, and about the same price.

Thanks for this, was there any mention of dates in this article?

[cyrn]

Thanks for this, was there any mention of dates in this article?

24th Jan ;)

[Trout Bum]

[QUOTE and fully magnesium body, and about the same price.[/QUOTE]

If that pans out, might that make it a few oz. lighter that the current 5D?
I really hope they don't go above 14 MP.


(Be gentle with me, it's my first time... :oops: )

[Geoffery]

The new camera is most likely at beta level, undergoing further tests prior to its official announcement by Canon in Fall, in conjunction with Photokina 2008. PMA Show 2008 at Las Vegas end of January is not the ideal place to announce a successor to the EOS 5D. A successor to the EOS Xti Rebel is more likely to be unveiled in conjunction with the PMA event.

A year ago, everyone/everywhere was speculating on the EOS 40D for PMA 2007 and Canon decided to unveil the EOS-1D Mark III instead.

EOS 40D and the EOS-1Ds Mark III became part of the Fall announcement of 2007 instead due to it not being a Photokina year to capitalise on. At this point of time, it is too early for Canon to announce a successor to the EOS 5D as both the Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III and Nikon D3 have not been in the market long enough to gauge how much effect (sales-wise) of both against the volumes of the EOS 5D and EOS-1D Mark III.

Rebates and promotions of the 5D currently may not necessary mean it is going to be replaced soon. It may be promoted against the onslaught of Nikon D300 and Sony Alpha A700, both of which are 12MPs and APS-C DSLRs.

Also, the EOS 350D (Rebel XT) has been dropped from the 4th-quarter 2007 catalog line-up of EOS models in my country/region while the EOS 5D remains. In the 4th-quarter 2006 catalog, only the EOS-1D Mark II N was missing from the line-up while EOS 30D remained. 1st-quarter 2008 catalog will be issued at end of January.

[cloose]

If they are making a d3x,

- Probably the most important launch financially is the new rebel. It's clearly the one which will sell the most worldwide. I think sticking at 10mp and going to 4fps or maybe 5 with AF from the 30d or something similar (at least 9 point) would be sensible. A better 2.5 inch screen would be the best thing to do as a 3 inch screen on the small body would be ridiculous as there wouldn't be space for anything else. Live view with contrast detect AF is a great idea to bridge the gap from the P+S.

Now i'm pretty sure canon won't do this but it just seems so wierd to me that they don't seem to do the sensible thing very often.

What do you guys think?

The XTi already had the same AF as the 30D, so an upgraded AF may not happen.
Hate to say it, but I think a mp increase will happen, as this is still a camera geared towards the P&S crowd, where mp's sell. 12mp, live view, 4-5 fps would be my guess.

[California4Life]

Just for the record, I went ahead and bought a mint condition 5D from a forum member here last week. I am very happy with the decision.

I actually talked to a Canon sales rep about a month ago (a real Canon rep, not some cashier at the local camera shop) and he said that he and his peers had absolutely no idea exactly when the 5D's upgrade would be released, but he said "for sure, no earlier than June." He explained that Canon has two major releases scheduled in the next 6 months, and neither of them were a 5D upgrade. So basically, it could be as soon as June, or as late as December.
Nobody knows, and the ones who might know aren't telling.

The 5D I got is great and I'm sure if the upgrade is worth it, I'll be able to sell mine for a good price and put that towards the new model. My advice? If you want the 5D now, get it now. It's a great camera. No use holding your breath.

[_aravena]

If the 5D MkII is as much as a new 5D is now, then I may save up, depending on how cheap used 5D's start to go for. FF is looking better and better all the time.

[Photoshoppa]

"for sure, no earlier than June." He explained that Canon has two major releases scheduled in the next 6 months, and neither of them were a 5D upgrade.

If "he" and they were referring to 2 DSLR bodies being released, and the 5D update was not either of those, then that would mean it was an all new line right? The 5D is overdue, the 400D I guess is due, but the updates to 1D3, 1Ds3, and 40D are not due. So what is left? I'm not sure how that would make sense (yet).

[California4Life]

If "he" and they were referring to 2 DSLR bodies being released, and the 5D update was not either of those, then that would mean it was an all new line right? The 5D is overdue, the 400D I guess is due, but the updates to 1D3, 1Ds3, and 40D are not due. So what is left? I'm not sure how that would make sense (yet).


I have no idea and he wasn't telling. I didn't get the impression that he was talking strictly bodies... He just said he knew what the next two were. For all I know, one of them could be a new lens or an upgrade to an older lens like the 100-400.. I'm just relaying what he told me.

His words were something like: "I have no idea when the 5D replacement is coming out, or what it will be. All I can say, is we have two releases scheduled and neither of them are it, so I'd say June at the absolute earliest."


I will see him again next week. I can try to pry for more info if you'd like, but he didn't seem like the rat type.

[Colorblinded]

I have no idea and he wasn't telling. I didn't get the impression that he was talking strictly bodies... He just said he knew what the next two were. For all I know, one of them could be a new lens or an upgrade to an older lens like the 100-400.. I'm just relaying what he told me.

His words were something like: "I have no idea when the 5D replacement is coming out, or what it will be. All I can say, is we have two releases scheduled and neither of them are it, so I'd say June at the absolute earliest."


I will see him again next week. I can try to pry for more info if you'd like, but he didn't seem like the rat type.
Any update?

I don't put a lot of stock in these rumors but I'm waiting on the 5D MK II. If it's not announced for PMA I may just wait to get it next year and go buy myself a 90mm TS-E, extension tubes and a subwoofer for my two channel system now and enjoy that stuff now rather than sit on the money and wait for a camera.

[Medic1]

Was contemplating purchasing a 5D...hmmm guess I will be waiting to see what the future brings!

[JohnnyG]

Was contemplating purchasing a 5D...hmmm guess I will be waiting to see what the future brings!
Apparently nothing soon, unfortunately. Now that the PMA show has started, a 5D announcement isn't going to happen, darn it! I've been waiting months for a new 5D. I've tried to buy a used one at a reasonable price and they're aren't any of those. So I guess I'll buy some glass!

[Medic1]

Apparently nothing soon, unfortunately. Now that the PMA show has started, a 5D announcement isn't going to happen, darn it! I've been waiting months for a new 5D. I've tried to buy a used one at a reasonable price and they're aren't any of those. So I guess I'll buy some glass!

I was looking at the drop in price of the 5D and really started contemplating the feasibility of buying it instead of upgrading to the 40D first. I really want to go to a FF body....but would have to keep the 20D because I do airshow/aviation photography as well (maybe 25% of what I shoot) as portrait/lanscape and the 3FPS burst rate of the 5D may prove to be a little slow for fast moving aircraft....but for everyting else its exactly what I want.