Photo Shop question

[Jmurman]

I currently have PSE2. I would like to be able to use curves and levels, which this program doesnt do. I bought a book called The Hidden Power of Elements. This book has a disc that you are to install and supposedly it will give you these tools with Elements. I've not been able to install this program. I've emailed the company and followed their instructions, but the zip file wont install...pretty frustrated to say the least, and am really tired of screwing around with this.

So, I think I'd like the full Photo Shop program. My question is this. I can get PS7 on the web for about 300 new with the manual, or I can get CS for about 650.

Is there that much of a difference between PS7 and CS? What are the advantages? Disadvantages?

What about the difference between PSE2 and 7?

Thanks for your help.

[scottbergerphoto]

I currently have PSE2. I would like to be able to use curves and levels, which this program doesnt do. I bought a book called The Hidden Power of Elements. This book has a disc that you are to install and supposedly it will give you these tools with Elements. I've not been able to install this program. I've emailed the company and followed their instructions, but the zip file wont install...pretty frustrated to say the least, and am really tired of screwing around with this.

So, I think I'd like the full Photo Shop program. My question is this. I can get PS7 on the web for about 300 new with the manual, or I can get CS for about 650.

Is there that much of a difference between PS7 and CS? What are the advantages? Disadvantages?


What about the difference between PSE2 and 7?

Thanks for your help.
Use this link http://store.adobe.com/store/products/special.jhtml?id=catCanon
It's a complete new install of PS CS for $299

PS7 has no plug in to convert raw files for the 10D or 1D MarkII. PS CS has it.
Regards,
Scott

[Jmurman]

HOT DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks! I am now a new CS owner!

Jerry

[scottbergerphoto]

HOT DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks! I am now a new CS owner!

Jerry
That's how I felt.
Scott

[utkik]

I bought The Hidden Power of Elements too, tried to use the disc and couldn't -

In a fit of frustraion, I also went out and got CS! And it's brilliant - it's like 10 great birthday presents at once by comparison!

[Jmurman]

I bought The Hidden Power of Elements too, tried to use the disc and couldn't -

In a fit of frustraion, I also went out and got CS! And it's brilliant - it's like 10 great birthday presents at once by comparison!

ok, so tell me...what do you like about CS vs Elements?

[scottbergerphoto]

Off the top of my head:
1. Curves
2. The ability to work in 16 bit Tiff instead of 8.
3. Raw Conversion
4. Color Management
Scott

[Jmurman]

Off the top of my head:
1. Curves
2. The ability to work in 16 bit Tiff instead of 8.
3. Raw Conversion
4. Color Management
Scott
I am definately getting excited about this. Thanks VERY much for the link to the promotion. :D :D :D

[Jmurman]

interesting post script to this. I had bought the Hidden Power book from Amazon.com. So I went and put in a critique of the book and simply said that it wouldn't work for me and I was dissatisfied....I see today that the author felt compelled to add his .002 and basically saying that I should have contacted him...blah, blah, blah.

I sent him an email originally and got NO reply from him.

Whatever :evil:

[Scottes]

You should definitely edit or repost in Amazon about the lack of his reply to email.

FWIW, I marked his review unhelpful and yours as helpful. His "review" was a bit snotty. His remarks about "prank reviews" and "not reading the book" were pathetic.

[Jmurman]

thanks, I cannot mark mine as helpful, but I did mark his as unhelpful. There isnt a way to comment to him there....but I agree his response was pretty snotty.

[Jmurman]

You should definitely edit or repost in Amazon about the lack of his reply to email.

FWIW, I marked his review unhelpful and yours as helpful. His "review" was a bit snotty. His remarks about "prank reviews" and "not reading the book" were pathetic.

I just edited my critique on Amazon...time to move on lifes tooooo short for this ****.

[Jesper]

You should definitely edit or repost in Amazon about the lack of his reply to email.

FWIW, I marked his review unhelpful and yours as helpful. His "review" was a bit snotty. His remarks about "prank reviews" and "not reading the book" were pathetic.

I just edited my critique on Amazon...time to move on lifes tooooo short for this ****.

The author of the Hidden Elements book, Richard Lynch, is also a member of the forums here and occasionally posts something.

[Jmurman]

You should definitely edit or repost in Amazon about the lack of his reply to email.

FWIW, I marked his review unhelpful and yours as helpful. His "review" was a bit snotty. His remarks about "prank reviews" and "not reading the book" were pathetic.

I just edited my critique on Amazon...time to move on lifes tooooo short for this ****.

The author of the Hidden Elements book, Richard Lynch, is also a member of the forums here and occasionally posts something.

small world

[richard lynch]

Mr. Murman,

While it wasn't terribly difficult to track you down by searching on the internet, I am interested in finding out more about the reason for the post you put up on Amazon. I spend a lot of time trying to help readers, so forgive me if I take a little kick from a reader I have never heard from poorly.

I have never received an email from you requesting help with installation of the Hidden power tools and I would be more than willing to help you do that. Really the installation is fairly simple, but it can go awry without consulting the installation instructions released on my website. You see, the book is printed before the CD is made, and while I make the tools on the CD, I don't control how the CD is made...there is no way to make a change in the book post-production. if you did indeed contact my publisher, I apologize that they did not forward your request for help -- as far as I know they do that when they can't help.

Few people have had trouble with the installation, and those whom I have exchanged more than a few emails with I actually talk to on the phone to clear up the problem. I have your number (also found on the internet), if you'd like me to give a call. Just let me know what time is convenient.

you see, it is very much more difficult for an author to track down a reader than the other way around. The contact information in the introduction of the book does provide several different methods for contacting me directly. I am not hiding...and i am glad for your response.

PS -- I would be glad to delete my response on Amazon...It sounded so unbelievable to me that i assumed it was a prank. I spend many hours a week answering reader queries...perhaps yours didn't get to me?

[richard lynch]

I bought The Hidden Power of Elements too, tried to use the disc and couldn't -

In a fit of frustraion, I also went out and got CS! And it's brilliant - it's like 10 great birthday presents at once by comparison!

I would have been glad to help you wit your installation as well. Please feel free to contact me about it.

[Jmurman]

Richard Lynch,

Thank you for your reply. I think my experience with The Hidden Poewr book and CD are pretty self explanitory. I initially wrote to you from the email addy given in the book, after a day or so, I also wrote the publisher. We responded back forth 6 or so times, with the same results.

I have since purchased the Adobe promotion of CS.

Jerry

[richard lynch]

>>Thank you for your reply. I think my experience with The Hidden Poewr book and CD are pretty self explanitory. I initially wrote to you from the email addy given in the book, after a day or so, I also wrote the publisher. We responded back forth 6 or so times, with the same results.<<

But what were those results? What did you try?

You never actually corresponded with me, and I was never given the chance to help. You may have mis-typed the email address, for example. The email at the back of the book is for the newsletter, not directly to me. Is there any reason you didn't visit the website to get the trouble-shooting information?

Your review on Amazon suggests the tools don't work. I don't deny that you may have had trouble with the installation, but obviously the tools work and install relatively easily, or else ALL of the reviews would mention that and the book would have been lambasted. That you didn't get the tools to work might possibly concern more user error than development error? Perhaps a unique problem with your system? Without visiting the site, visiting my forum, or contacting me, you didn't take the opportunities I offered to help that the half of one percent who had difficulty with the install might need. That you say "I also have spoken with some others on various BB's about this and they tell the same story. " is obviously inaccurate...20,000 people bought that book, and I have many confirmations of the ease of the install. It is also easier to gripe than take responsibility for what may have gone wrong. I am pretty committed to helping my readers, and I find the situation deeply frustrating. A negative word stands out in a sea of praise. Competetors don't like that the book is doing well because of the nuance of advanced techniques and tools for Elements users--and it is easy for them to post a prank review...that is what i thought it was because I do go out of my way to help readers--and readers know it.

In sum, I don't think the review is about the book at all. The book is NOT just the tools: there is a lot of useful technique that you will not find elsewhere in any other book. That the review hinges on the tools alone (whomever was at fault for the install), it is not at all about the book--and that makes it unfair...and also suggests you didn't really read it. That's the issue. A book review should review the book, and yours does not...not at all. Regardless the product DOES work. The review is just plain wrong.

When were you in contact with the publisher? I'd like to check with them to find out why they didn't contact me about the problem you had.

Thanks.

[richard lynch]

BTW -- here is an article I worte about what people need in an image editor which compares Photoshop and Elements:

http://www.graphic-design.com/Photoshop/vs_elements.html

My guess is that most people don't really need Photoshop at all unless they are doing web work, volume CMYK, need 16 bit, write scripts/actions and are in a production art department. Mostly people find excuses to buy it because they want to believe they need it--for whatever status that provides.

That may seem terribly weighted toward Elements, but I write books for both, so it doesn't matter to me which you buy! personally I use Elements by choice at my regular job to allow my budget to go toward advancing my system...Which is of more use to me.

Hope that helps.

[Scottes]

Richard,

Your messages here (or the PM you sent me, or the "review" on Amazon) aren't really doing you much good, in my opinion. Rather than coming off as a person who cares, you sound more like someone whining that you weren't given a chance.

You've made your point here - poorly in my opinion - but you've made it. You have obviously lost jmurman as a client, yet you still persist on pushing your points. Give it up - you're just digging a deeper hole for yourself.

Out of 20 reviews on Amazon there are 3 listing that they couldn't install it. 2 of the first 3 posters in this thread couldn't install it. Next time get it right, and you won't have such a highly visible failure rate, and you won't have to torment us with your whining. Learn from your mistakes and move on. You've lost the battle here - be a man, admit it, and move on.

[richard lynch]

Scottes.

The installation IS right. As you haven't tried it, you don't know--and are accepting the view of someone because they stated it. How does just stating it doesn't work make them reliable? How does me stating it does work make me not? Surely it isn't the $2 I made from the sale of the book.

That two people complain doesn't speak for the 20,000 that don't. People are apt to complain, and not apt to say: oh, it worked! They are apt to complain and blame something other than themselves.

People don't say "it worked" because it is supposed to. When it does, it isn't news.

That you jump on the negativity bandwagon suggests that there is weight to the idea that an once of complaint dissects 10 pounds of praise. Do you have first-hand experience with the product?

[richard lynch]

>>You've lost the battle here - be a man, admit it, and move on.

I would admit it if the tools didn't install. Do you realize how stupid it would be to create a set of tools that didn't work? What on earth would be the purpose? These were tested on Mac and PC on different OSs by different users. Not only do they install but they work. Why should I accept that one person's errant opinion is correct when I know for certain it isn't?

I don't need to cheat people into buying books...that doesn't go nearly as far as providing tools and techniques that work.

Mine do. What would be the point of accepting that they don't? That is absurd.

[Scottes]

The installation IS right.

Obviously not all the time. If it was right all the time then this thread wouldn't exist.


As you haven't tried it, you don't know--and are accepting the view of someone because they stated it.

It's jmurman view, someone I know and trust, and who's opinion counts with me. You have simply driven me to ignore your opinion.

And given the number of negative reviews on Amazon, I wouldn't purchase the book. I never read anybody's 5 Stars reviews - because those 5 stars just stated that it was perfect, and nothing is perfect, so they're full of it. I try to read the 2-4 Star reviews, and read but filter the 1 Star reviews. You'll just about always get some lousy reviews, but there's often more info in those lousy reviews.

The consistency of the negative reviews on Amazon make me realize that I would probably not like the book, whether the software installed or not. And yes, 2 similar reviews (10%!!) is enough for consistency. And when they speak of things important to me, I listen.


That you jump on the negativity bandwagon suggests that there is weight to the idea that an once of complaint dissects 10 pounds of praise.

Enough negativity will certainly influence my buying decision, that's for sure. My time is too valuable to bother with sub-par books.

Jmurman's opinion carries far, far more weight than yours.

And I jumped on the Richard-Lynch-Negativity bandwagon, solely on your response on Amazon. Your comments here have simply made that bandwagon seem much more appropriate.

[Jmurman]

Richard....I was unable to install the tools. I dont know why this is so hard to understand. The software would'nt install....not that I didnt want them, or I wouldnt have bought the book. I would make NO sense for me to say otherwise.

I posted my critique simply because I was and still am an unsatisfied customer with this book/cd/product. 20,000 satisfied customers and I am in the vast minority, I can accept that. What I find so asinine is how you are trying to make me out to be a moron. I dont appreciate that.

Nothing personal, dont take it that way, I am moving on......let it go.

[Scottes]

I am moving on......let it go.

Yep, I have to agree. Goodbye.

[richard lynch]

>Obviously not all the time. If it was right all the time then this thread wouldn't exist.

Nothing installs all the time. Go look at Adobe's Elements forum -- people complain about not being able to install that either. If someone leaves on virus protection, if they install to the wrong place, if they don't use the right password/code, it doesn't work. I want to know why it didn't. Without that there is no chance of fixing it in the future.

Saying it doesn't work and suggesting it never does is not responsible and takes away from the product's ability to help others who will be able to install it.

I see from your logic that you discount only the 5-star reviews, and not the opposite side of the spectrum. Interesting tactic. Those 5-star reviews are most of the ones for my book...interesting that somehow you see 3 out of 20 reviews as being the dominant number. There is no arguing with logic like that because it lacks logic. You're right, common sense can't win here. there is no sense in going on.

[richard lynch]

I lied...one last post:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=9026572
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=9468425
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=8062372
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=7764169

And in this forum...
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29926&highlight=hidden+power+lync h
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=35213&highlight=hidden+power+lync h

Interesting how scottes is on these threads too...

[ejwebb]

While I really don't want to get involved in the personal attacks, I do agree that your posts are not helping your cause here Richard - which is unfortunate as I am a very satisfied user of your tools. I know you are trying to defend yourself but you might be better off to just let the negative comments blow over or just be apologetic regardless of fault("customer is always right" theory).

I bought the book and have read a good portion of it. I also installed the tools without problems and use curves all the time in Elements. Let's be realistic - we are talking about a great deal of knowledge and software add-ons that can be had for about $30. A few users having installation issues (that I assume are ultimately fixable) does not invalidate the great deal this offers to a vast majority of the purchasers.

While I admit it is not the most user-friendly book I have read, it deals with some pretty complicated concepts and does a decent job explaining them. And there are sections in the book not intended for photographers -but I can say that about many books on graphics programs. Would I recommend this book alone - yes - but not nearly as strongly as I do the book and cd tools!

I feel the book is worthwhile alone as a learning tool - but you do have to read it (a few times in some parts) to get the most out of it. The real bargain comes in with the added tools - the curves tool alone is worth the purchase price.

I do not have the full version of photoshop and I understand that it has much more functionality than Elements but I agree with Richard that not everyone needs it - all too often the advice provided is to buy an "L" lens or a 10D or a Mark II or CS or a Spyder, etc. Don't get me wrong - I have an appreciation for what the more expensive tools can do and would love to have them. However, I, like many people out there who do this as a hobby, just can't justify the cost of everything. For us, Richard's book and software provides a great option as I have recommended it in this forum.

Maybe I will eventually need CS but Elements can hold me over until then and Richard's tools will increase my knoledge and improve my work in the meantime for 10% of the cost of the CS upgrade.