Event Photography...do you offer a disc?

[Hatch1921]

Hello all,


I and two others are getting ready to shoot a couple of body building events. The previous shooter (for several years) offered a disc of all the competitors photos for $75...all high res shots from the event.

I'm REALLY torn on offering this option in our sales. Here is how I view things and being new to the business... I could be...most likely am,...very naive.

I HATE the idea of turning over a disc with high res shots for others to print. I think this hurts me and other photographers. Not to mention I do not have control over the final prints. This is a concern, since of course our name is at stake with the final product.
We are guessing people are going to be mad if there isn't a "Disc" option available. So, we came up with a book option. The book will be up to 120 pages with 6 photos in the center of the book just for the person buying it. The cost is about $50 to make and we will sell it for $80. The idea is to build one master book with 6 pages left blank for the person who orders it. We place the 6 shots...send to print...done. The images will be post processed for sales online so... other than a few hours building the master book... very little work to complete individual books.

We will also set up a small studio for well... studio shots. LOL

So, we are providing a couple of new things and trying to kill the disc.

Do you think selling a disc is wise? Should we keep it and press on. I know making the disc/mailing it out is all under a few $'s with a huge profit. But...we stand to lose future print sales and control over the prints/files.

What do you all think? Should we offer a low res version of a disc? Say $25 for web size images? I can batch process the shots in no time at all...burn and mail.

How do we walk away from this in a win/win situation?


Any and all thoughts welcomed. This is our first show and we want to make a good impression.
Thanks in advance.
Hatch

[swapnali]

I am waiting for the reply too.

[Hatch1921]

Anyone? :)

[notapro]

well, $75 seems awfully low to me for full event coverage. I really like your book idea, and you could set up online proofing and ordering for those who don't want to order the book, or send out a proof CD with order form.

Personally, (for portraits) I use web proofs that are 450px longest side + a border. People put those on facebook usually and that's fine. They can't print a decent 4x6 even, so I take the "loss" on giving them something they can show family/friends via email or online. But it sounds like you may be talking about lots of CDs so a nominal charge would probably be in order.

Sorry I don't have experience to go on... hopefully someone else will pipe up, as I'd like to hear what has worked/ not worked as well.

[cosworth]

I offer a disc, but the entire team must buy - avoid the copy.

[notapro]

I offer a disc, but the entire team must buy - avoid the copy.

That's a good idea. My thinking that $75 was low was based on one person buying the disc and everyone else copying it, but that solves the issue.

[poloman]

I got killed at a three day event (english horse event) recently by a photog doing exactly this. I took 1400 shots over a two day period (they did the event in two days), posted about 700 of them on my website. Went around and got releases from the competitors and gave them my info. I invested 40 hours including post processing. My gallery has had a very large number of hits and my work has sold very well in the past but I sold very little from this show. I think the participants just used my for a slide show and printed from the other photog's disc. A real heart breaker.....

[cosworth]

I target individual teams. I approach them and say for $30 a head i'll cover their entire event. No picking, no "I'm covering a different game right now". I give them detailed coverage and ensure their plays/games/team shots are all done on their schedule.

I get the "leader" to collect the cash from everyone, I burn a couple DVDs, a couple CD sets for those that don't have a DVD rom - I print a nice cover for the dvd case. I then throw in a bonus CD that plays the images in TV format on a DVD player. good for after tourney beer fests.

Key point, my "after sales" are sample sport Illustrated or "magazine X" faux covers that I sell for seperately. All my contact info is on the discs. I usually make just as much $$$ from the fake magazine covers and the entire coverage...

See my website for faux magazine samples. A GREAT way to get the upsell post event.

[Hatch1921]

Great feedback all.

The event is bodybuilding... so... the disc/book will be purchased by the individual... not really a team thing. Meaning... they get shots, individual shots...of them on stage. So... we will not run in to making one master disc of the event which someone buys and then reproduces. All the event shots will be in the book...plus the 6 pages "Centerfold" shots for the competitor to buy. This makes each book unique to the person buying it.

We are discussing the disc. We might (feedback appreciated) offer the disc with 2-4 high res shots (not original raw files) for print with the shots of the individual person from the morning and evening show in web size/resolution. This way they get a few shots to print...and they can e-mail the rest or post them on Myspace...ect. The disc will be a little less than the book. Plus we could offer a book/disc package for a discounted price. We would also include copyright info and commercial distribution information as well.

Any thoughts?
Thanks a million for all your comments.
Hatch

[dshootist]

My personal preference is to NEVER offer a high resolution CD/DVD. However, if you offer a disc or anything that could be copied, include your company's copyright symbol on every image (it can be small and in the corner). If your entire image library is documented this way, you will have some evidence of ownership. Also include the terms and conditions with a copyright statement in a form with the CD/DVD (I like using the cover of the CD/DVD for this). You can also create an invoice/receipt that contains your copyright information and ownership of the images for the CD/DVD that requires their signature after having read it. WIll this stop people from making copies? No, but it does give you something to point to should the matter become litigious.

[cosworth]

Get the event organizer to collect a fee from everyone and become the event photographer. I did that with a couple events. Sometimes your client can be your best salesperson.

It doesn't always have to be a team thing. You can work your way up to who runs things and they sometimes pay you, then roll it into entry fees etc. as part of their "package".

[Hatch1921]

Thank you dshootist and cosworth.

I would love to have to event producer charge each competitor more and then in the end we provide prints and so on. But... the events are not scaled this way. There is an organization fee... then the event fee.. .and there can be fees for each class of the competition they enter. So... raising the fees would hurt the show as a whole... you would have less participants...even if you offered a disc with shots...prints...books.

I will make sure we watermark the high res files... I think 2 on a disc is fine. They are used to getting up to 100 high res files which KILLS ME ...but this was the practice of the previous shooter/s.

More to come. I can't say thank you enough for the great replies. This has been very helpful.

Hatch

[ClickClick]

They are good replies, however I actually compete and I can give you a view from the opposite side of the coin.

The reason the book is a bad idea is simply because bodybuilding is an individual sport. I never really care to see pictures of other competitors. And most local show (state level) competitors are not going to purchase a book anyway. You have one weight class winner and then one overall winner. That (depending on how many weight classes they have as often on a state level there are few - if any - bantamweights or superheavy weights). So you may have 5-6 winners in each division (that is counting the overall who wins two trophies). Factor in the Mens, Womens, Teens, and Masters, you have about 30 class winners. Not all of those are going to buy a book. The ones who don't place are not going to want to see a reminder of the other competitors that placed higher than them.

Also, a disc is much better because most people who enter state level contests have little to no knowledge of actual contest prep so they will need pictures to send off to whatever guru is training them over the net. Yes, that will sound absurd that you can train someone over the internet for a physique contest but trust me, there are big bucks involved for those that can produce results.

You charge $75 per disk and there really isn't a worry about them making very many, if any, prints.

You may want to approach the promoter of the show to offer covering the entire show in exchange for a fee and a percentage of all photos sold. But if you can get $75 per disk like the other photog you would be doing great in my opinion. One reason I stopped shooting shows was because plain and simple, the amount earned was not worth the time it took. Keep in mind there are 2 different times you have to be there. Prejudging in the morning and then the evening show. Local shows were not worth it for me. I am quite sure you are shooting local shows because national shows (Nationals, Jr Nationals, USA, Jr USA, North American, SoCal, etc..) all have photogs there under contact with NPC, Muscletime, Flex, MD, PNP, etc..

Just something to consider, by no means take my advice word for word.

[JTVal]

Hello all,


I and two others are getting ready to shoot a couple of body building events. The previous shooter (for several years) offered a disc of all the competitors photos for $75...all high res shots from the event.

I'm REALLY torn on offering this option in our sales. Here is how I view things and being new to the business... I could be...most likely am,...very naive.

I HATE the idea of turning over a disc with high res shots for others to print. I think this hurts me and other photographers. Not to mention I do not have control over the final prints. This is a concern, since of course our name is at stake with the final product.
We are guessing people are going to be mad if there isn't a "Disc" option available. So, we came up with a book option. The book will be up to 120 pages with 6 photos in the center of the book just for the person buying it. The cost is about $50 to make and we will sell it for $80. The idea is to build one master book with 6 pages left blank for the person who orders it. We place the 6 shots...send to print...done. The images will be post processed for sales online so... other than a few hours building the master book... very little work to complete individual books.

We will also set up a small studio for well... studio shots. LOL

So, we are providing a couple of new things and trying to kill the disc.

Do you think selling a disc is wise? Should we keep it and press on. I know making the disc/mailing it out is all under a few $'s with a huge profit. But...we stand to lose future print sales and control over the prints/files.

What do you all think? Should we offer a low res version of a disc? Say $25 for web size images? I can batch process the shots in no time at all...burn and mail.

How do we walk away from this in a win/win situation?


Any and all thoughts welcomed. This is our first show and we want to make a good impression.
Thanks in advance.
Hatch
I just found out that Photoshop allows you to save the photo as PDF. once you do that you can choose to protect the file so they can not print it. I haven't been able to do BATCH processing so it would not be good for 100's of shots but if you are selling individual shots you have that option.

When I film at the drop zone I am going to start printing out individual shots at a set rate. and if they want the E file I'll charge for it and lower the quality and lock it to prevent printing.

EDIT: OR you can do the same thing with Adobe PDF (Pro?) I beleive you can batch from there

[Hatch1921]

The reason the book is a bad idea is simply because bodybuilding is an individual sport. I never really care to see pictures of other competitors. And most local show (state level) competitors are not going to purchase a book anyway. You have one weight class winner and then one overall winner. That (depending on how many weight classes they have as often on a state level there are few - if any - bantamweights or superheavy weights). So you may have 5-6 winners in each division (that is counting the overall who wins two trophies). Factor in the Mens, Womens, Teens, and Masters, you have about 30 class winners. Not all of those are going to buy a book. The ones who don't place are not going to want to see a reminder of the other competitors that placed higher than them.


Thank you for the reply. I've shown the finished book to several competitors...all had very positive things to say about the book. The section reserved in the center is of your performance... you are the centerfold. I have to disagree with your comment about the book being a bad idea.
You mentioned people do not want to see the other people who placed higher than they did. True to an extent… but…then there is the other side as well. They can see where they need to improve. They also get to see the entire show. With everything going on behind the scenes...as you know... you miss everything. The last OCB show I was at… the video guy was selling DVD's like crazy. The book will have the same content but will be much nicer than the DVD. I know... we bought one as my wife was in the show. The DVD was HORRIBLE!!!
The book is geared towards the first time participants and for people who want something they can take to work, show the family..give as a gift....ect.
I had a shoot the other night with a bodybuilder... he has been in 12 events... he said he would buy one simply because it is something different and the quality was very nice.
So... there are people out there who are interested. I think if you saw a copy would might like what you see.. .then again...maybe not. But the option to buy one will be there.
We are going to offer the disc with photos. I can't see a way around it. From my point of view I think it is a bad idea from a control standpoint. I fully understand people want to be able to print photos and so on. I also understand we need to provided a product to the people we are targeting.

I appreciate your comments… I just see things differently about the book.

Thanks again all for the suggestions.
Hatch

[Alamode]

I never offer a disc it cheepens the photographs

[ClickClick]

I never offer a disc it cheepens the photographs


Nice website. I bet you have a time lugging your set up around. LOL! Great pics though.

[Hatch1921]

Which website did you go to Click Click? :) For the event I will shoot with the 5d and the 70-200LIS... other than that... the backstage studio is pretty compact. It helps to have three of us working the event. :)

Glad you like the shots :) Flickr site? Deviant? Our business site is http://www.azproimage.com

Thanks for the comments.
Hatch