Building a G-Series Infrared Camera

[Don Ellis]

I posted this message in "Talk about Photography" and only today realized it was better placed in this forum, which I seldom visit... so here it is...
______________________________________________

Some of you may know that I'm shooting infrared with a modified Canon G1 which has had its hot mirror (internal infrared cut filter) replaced by clear glass, producing a camera capable of normal shutter speeds with either a Hoya R72 or B+W 093 infrared filter.

Since I began posting photos from this camera on my website, I've had several people write and ask about modifying their own cameras.

Thanks to the technical knowledge and generosity of Tony Kaplan, the man who did my modifications, plus my own undeniable skill in creating a simple HTML file, the secret to converting your G-series camera is now online at www.kleptography.com/notes-irconvert.htm

http://www.kleptography.com/irconvert/13.jpg

Cheers,

Don

www.kleptography.com
Above photo by Tony Kaplan

[Ballen Photo]

Thanks to the technical knowledge and generosity of Tony Kaplan, the man who did my modifications, plus my own undeniable skill in creating a simple HTML file, the secret to converting your G-series camera is now online at www.kleptography.com/notes-irconvert.htm

Cheers,
Don
www.kleptography.com


A very interesting and well done article Don, Thanks for posting this.
-Bruce

[CyberDyneSystems]

Excellent info Don,

I just made this thread "sticky" and would encourage this to be the new home of -G- series infra red shooting info and tips if anyone has any to share...?

[Don Ellis]

A very interesting and well done article Don, Thanks for posting this.
-Bruce
Hi Bruce... it's a pleasure... I hope it's helpful (I guess we'll know with a little future feedback). Don

[Don Ellis]

Excellent info Don,

I just made this thread "sticky" and would encourage this to be the new home of -G- series infra red shooting info and tips if anyone has any to share...?
Hi CDS,

That's kind... I hope someone finds it useful. Those who like infrared photography tend to be a little fanatical and this tutorial may help them reach another level of ease and performance.

As for tips, I'll start off with my best one:

The secret to escaping the magenta plague (which is interesting for only the first dozen shots and only infrequently thereafter) is to stop shooting in JPG.

1. Shoot RAW on P mode with AUTO white balance.
2. Convert to TIF in BreezeBrowser (for instance) using a CUSTOM white balance -- which is as simple as clicking the eyedropper in BB's preview screeen on anything that is a medium to dark gray (it really matters very little).

Using an unmodified G1 with a Hoya R72, you will often get localized pastel-green hues on foliage that are quite pleasing.

http://www.kleptography.com/images-ir72/yachtcar/crw_1975.jpg

But in any case you will be rid of the pinks and magentas and oranges.

Cheers,

Don

[Conk]

Would it be worth my while to find a used G1 and modify it or just use my D-Rebel for IR photography?

[Don Ellis]

Would it be worth my while to find a used G1 and modify it or just use my D-Rebel for IR photography?

Hi Colin,

What a late reply... sorry, buddy. Next time if you're on the verge of a purchasing decision, just send me a personal message.

I don't know how sensitive the D-Rebel is but I would think that it's not as sensitive as a G1... and even if it comes close, it's never going to be as sensitive as a modified G1, so that's what I would do.

On a technical note, your photos from the modified G1, especially with the B+W 093 true infrared filter, will be virtually black-and-white, so you won't have the opportunity to do any fancy channel swapping to create colorized infrared photos if that's something you long for (I don't).

There may be a tinge of color with the modified G1 and a Hoya R72 but, again, not enough to play with for any sort of dramatic colorized picture.

At first, I was disappointed when I modified my G1 and found no color, but that lasted about 20 minutes as I began to appreciate the benefits of not only handheld but high-speed infrared photography.

When I purchased another G1, I thought I would leave it alone and use it with an R72 to regain those colors. But after a day of tripod shooting, I sent that one off for modification and have never been sorry. In bright sunlight, even with the stronger 093 filter, you can expect shutter speeds up to 1/500th of a second.

So there's one man's opinion. :D

Let me know how you get on.

Don

[Don Ellis]

One of the people who actually read the IR conversion instructions wrote to offer an alternative idea for the replacement clear-glass filter -- microscope slides.

They're easier to find and cut, so you might want to consider them over a single piece of tiny glass. I've added Hiroyuki Yoneshima's comments at the end of the conversion page, along with a picture of our Hiro on Half Dome.

http://www.kleptography.com/notes-irconvert.htm

Cheers,

Don

[Zero]

Oh boy!
am I an excited person now! I've been shooting IR (film) starting a few years back but recently aquired the G6 and have been having lots of fun. I was incredibly disappointed by the colour results, and thought perhaps it was an issue of the G6. As soon as I read your post Don, about shooting it in RAW so I promptly turned around (at work), stuck the R72 on and did a test shot.

It still looks brilliant orange, but I hope that will change when I get it back home. I use Photoshop7 though, and am not sure how to make those changes. I will play around and hope.

I've found that I can squeeze out shots that are fairly good at F2 and as fast as 1/15 seconds - ISO 50. As I have just got the camera a short time ago, and only bought the R72 a few weeks later, I haven't had much time to play with it. One day I hope to convert over an older G3 to IR... when they are cheap-cheap in about 4 yrs. ;)

Don, after joining here I found your website and have found it very inspirational. Thanks for all your hard work.:D

[dkord]

Thank you for all the info Don, but I really do not trust my skills to do this. Is there anyone that will perform the conversion? Been thinking about calling the local repair shop.
I played with a R72 filter with my G3 and the focus seems alright, but when I used the 20D it had a harder time. Do I need to manual focus, and if I do do I need to back off a little for IR?

[Don Ellis]

As soon as I read your post Don, about shooting it in RAW so I promptly turned around (at work), stuck the R72 on and did a test shot.

It still looks brilliant orange, but I hope that will change when I get it back home. I use Photoshop7 though, and am not sure how to make those changes. I will play around and hope.

One day I hope to convert over an older G3 to IR... when they are cheap-cheap in about 4 yrs. ;)

Don, after joining here I found your website and have found it very inspirational. Thanks for all your hard work.:D
Hi Zero,

Sorry for the delay... this sticky thread got lost when Pekka moved to new forum software and CDS was obviously kind enough to go find it and stick it again. Unfortunately, my "email" request for new messages was no longer there and I simply tripped over this today.

Photoshop 7 is fine... it's BreezeBrowser that you use the "custom white balance" technique to get rid of the pink, magenta or orange color. When the RAW image comes up in BreezeBrowser (Ctrl-K), just click your cursor on something that's medium or dark gray and take a look at the results. Play around a bit and try different areas to see the effect. When you see what you like, covert the image to 8-bit or 16-bit TIF (8-bit only for G1 users).

If you really want a converted camera, you might consider buying a G1 for the cost factor.

And you're quite welcome... glad you found my website and enjoyed it.

Good luck.

Don

[Don Ellis]

Thank you for all the info Don, but I really do not trust my skills to do this. Is there anyone that will perform the conversion? Been thinking about calling the local repair shop.

I played with a R72 filter with my G3 and the focus seems alright, but when I used the 20D it had a harder time. Do I need to manual focus, and if I do do I need to back off a little for IR?
Hi,

I'm sure there are people who will rip your camera apart. :D It's the putting it back together properly and checking it to make sure it focuses properly THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE ZOOM RANGE. It definitely needs to be tested before it's returned to you and this is the first test you'll want to perform yourself.

Unfortunately, the man who did my conversion and several others no longer wants to do them, so I haven't got someone to recommend.

I'm sorry that I can't help you with the 20D question. I use auto-focus only on the G1, but it sounds like you're having problems with the 20D. Perhaps someone can jump in here and suggest something.

Good luck.

Don

[dkord]

Don, thank you for the information. I haven't played with the 20D and IR long enough, so it's probably user error.
I have a friend who said he can take it apart and put it together, I just need to get the glass :) I do trust his compentancy :)
Thanks for commenting on testing the focus at all ranges, I probably would of gloss over that.

[mknabster]

Hey Don, I have a question about taking infrared shots. Is there a certain filter I can get for my G6 that can help create an infrared shot? I am so captivated by these that I want to take some of my own. Or is there a way in Photoshop Elemetns to change a picture to make it look like one?

[HungryWriter]

Hey Don, I have a question about taking infrared shots. Is there a certain filter I can get for my G6 that can help create an infrared shot? I am so captivated by these that I want to take some of my own. Or is there a way in Photoshop Elemetns to change a picture to make it look like one?

You can try the Hoya Infrared filter found at www.lensmateonline.com (http://www.lensmateonline.com)

It's more for the G1.

You can also try some post processing using Photoshop. Here's an action you can use: http://www.nickgallery.com/web_pages/technical%207.htm

[Don Ellis]

Hey Don, I have a question about taking infrared shots. Is there a certain filter I can get for my G6 that can help create an infrared shot? I am so captivated by these that I want to take some of my own. Or is there a way in Photoshop Elements to change a picture to make it look like one?
Hi... you'll definitely want the Hoya R72 and a tripod. Considering the low cost of these, I would suggest doing real infrared rather than trying to use software on color photos.

In another forum, Richard Higgs posted some excellent infrared photos using this combination. It seems to be the second most sensitive infrared camera in Canon's G-series (after the G1).

Fred Miranda has a software action -- http://www.fredmiranda.com/shopping/DI (click on "Full description and samples") -- but it's for Photoshop, not Elements.

Good luck... let us know how you get on.

[RAW]

I don't know if I have this right, but from what I know, one way to find out if a camera is IR capable is to shoot a remote control with its sensor pointing at the camera and with it's (any) button pushed down.

I tried this on the G6 and on my 20D...on the picture that I got with my G6 there was light in the remotes bulb and on the picture taken with my 20D there wasn't. So, what I can get from here is that with my G6 I can take infrared photos and with the 20D I can't.

So what's next...buy me a IR filter for my G6...?

[Don Ellis]

I don't know if I have this right, but from what I know, one way to find out if a camera is IR capable is to shoot a remote control with its sensor pointing at the camera and with it's (any) button pushed down.

I tried this on the G6 and on my 20D...on the picture that I got with my G6 there was light in the remotes bulb and on the picture taken with my 20D there wasn't. So, what I can get from here is that with my G6 I can take infrared photos and with the 20D I can't.

So what's next...buy me a IR filter for my G6...?
Hi Artan... the old point-the-remote-at-the-camera is a very crude instrument to determine IR capability. Better to ask other people how they're doing with a particular camera.

In the case of the G6, Richard Higgs posted three infrared photos taken with his G6 and a Hoya R72 -- http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=10279516

Ignore the first photo -- it's from his Nikon CP800, as you'll see if you read further along the thread.

He doesn't mention shutter speed but it's definitely tripod work. Lovely photos in my opinion and well worth the investment in an R72.

Cheers,

Don

[RAW]

Hi Artan... the old point-the-remote-at-the-camera is a very crude instrument to determine IR capability. Better to ask other people how they're doing with a particular camera.

In the case of the G6, Richard Higgs posted three infrared photos taken with his G6 and a Hoya R72 -- http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=10279516

Ignore the first photo -- it's from his Nikon CP800, as you'll see if you read further along the thread.

He doesn't mention shutter speed but it's definitely tripod work. Lovely photos in my opinion and well worth the investment in an R72.

Cheers,

Don


Well he mentions that they are handheld photos but I doubt that, however I have to agree...very nice photos indeed.

I don't know if anyone has experience with their 20D in this field and if yes what filter do they recomend. Also, If i convert my G6 when I will take photos, will they need work on PS or they will come out perfect IR photos out of the camera?

Regards.

[Boutty]

Hello everyone,

I have borrowed my friend's Hoya R72 58mm for a trail today with my G6. I took the custom White Balance as told of a peice of white paper. But somehow the photo came out yellowish? Was this normal? Your help would be appreciated as I am quite excited about taking IR picture!

Cheers,
John

[Don Ellis]

I don't know if anyone has experience with their 20D in this field and if yes what filter do they recomend. Also, If i convert my G6 when I will take photos, will they need work on PS or they will come out perfect IR photos out of the camera?

Regards.
On an unconverted camera, the Hoya R72 (or equivalent) is nearly always the way to go. Having said that, this is a near-infrared filter, so it allows a small amount of visible light in -- which often gives you pleasing pastel tones that you can live with, manipulate or eliminate at your whim.

As for your G6 question, I think all photos need some work in an image-enhancement program, but my experience with the modified G1 and the R72 near-infrared filter is that you'll get virtually black-and-white photos. With the 093 true-infrared filter, you'll definitely get black--and-white photos, for there is no color in infrared.

What this means is that you can more easily shoot in JPG mode if you like, rather than going through the Custom/Auto/RAW process I mention earlier in this thread.

Cheers,

Don

[Don Ellis]

Hello everyone,

I have borrowed my friend's Hoya R72 58mm for a trail today with my G6. I took the custom White Balance as told of a peice of white paper. But somehow the photo came out yellowish? Was this normal? Your help would be appreciated as I am quite excited about taking IR picture!

Cheers,
John
Hi John,

Please read my earlier post -- the fifth message in this thread (the one with infrared car) -- and you can forget the nuisance of trying to set a custom white balance on a piece of paper.

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

Don

[Boutty]

Hello Don,Thanks for the reply. So I presumed I need to first take the IR photo using RAW & adjust the white balance with the conversion program. Are all the IR photo on your site taken with modified G3? They are beautiful ! Cheers,John

[Don Ellis]

Hello Don,Thanks for the reply. So I presumed I need to first take the IR photo using RAW & adjust the white balance with the conversion program. Are all the IR photo on your site taken with modified G3? They are beautiful ! Cheers,John
Hi John,

Yes, just follow the simple steps from RAW to TIF and you should be fine. All the infrared photos on my site were taken with a G1... some modified, some unmodified -- "infrared bali" and "infrared 72" are with an unmodified camera and a Hoya R72. Most of the others are with a modified G1 and an 093 true-infrared filter. I think I mention what I'm using in the notes for each gallery.

Cheers,

Don

[Boutty]

Hi John,

Yes, just follow the simple steps from RAW to TIF and you should be fine. All the infrared photos on my site were taken with a G1... some modified, some unmodified -- "infrared bali" and "infrared 72" are with an unmodified camera and a Hoya R72. Most of the others are with a modified G1 and an 093 true-infrared filter. I think I mention what I'm using in the notes for each gallery.

Cheers,

Don
Hi Don,

Thanks again for your prompt reply and pointers. Just another question, not sure if you mentioned on each your gallery or not, what is your prefered mode to shoot the IR photo, M or Av? Oh, and another one, it is a myth that one should shoot only on a bright sunny day?

Really appreciate your time for sharing!

Best regards,

John

[Don Ellis]

Hi Don,

Thanks again for your prompt reply and pointers. Just another question, not sure if you mentioned on each your gallery or not, what is your prefered mode to shoot the IR photo, M or Av? Oh, and another one, it is a myth that one should shoot only on a bright sunny day?

Really appreciate your time for sharing!

Best regards,

John Hi John,

I always shoot P mode, never anything else. These cameras have huge depth-of-field at any aperture -- whether you want it or not -- so P mode and auto-focus are the way to go.

Sunny-day-only shooting is definitely a myth. You'll be surprised at what you can get at other times... fog or indoors, to name just two...

http://kleptography.com/images-ir72m/fog/crw_2348.jpg

http://kleptography.com/images-ir93/crw_0557.jpg

Many of the shots in this gallery -- http://www.kleptography.com/gallery-ir72m.htm -- were taken without the benefit of strong sunlight.

One thing to warn you against in infrared is overexposure. It's easy to be dazzled by white foliage and not notice that you've lost a lot of detail in the highlights, i.e. blown highlights, which you can't recover from. I've forgotten what I used to use on my unmodified G1 -- probably -1/3 exposure compensation -- but I know on my modified G1 that I always shoot at least -1/3 and occasionally reach -1 or even -1 1/3. Keep an eye on your highlights and make sure there's discernable detail there.

Good luck.

Don

[Boutty]

Cheers Don for more pointers! :p

I just love the icy-green/pink colours that in your shots. Hope one day I can achieve this. Will let you know how I get on.

Warmest regards,

John

[Boutty]

Hi Don,

I've done it finally! But with not so great results, the pictures seem to be pixelated a bit.

Using G6 with R72 filter, shooting RAW in 'P' mode, converted to TIF using Zoombreezer that came with the camera. Can you see anyway I can improve these?

Regards,

John

[Boutty]

And another one.

[Don Ellis]

Hi Don,

I've done it finally! But with not so great results, the pictures seem to be pixelated a bit.

Using G6 with R72 filter, shooting RAW in 'P' mode, converted to TIF using Zoombreezer that came with the camera. Can you see anyway I can improve these?

John John... it looks good to me! I think you've done a wonderful job. As for what I might do, I'll attach a file since you asked. I've lightened the rocks to give them a bit more definition, brought up some detail in the lighter areas, and then set a definite black point and white point in the photo. Although those points were there (meaning you had a true white and true black in the photo already), I set it a little "inside" the existing points, making elements of the photo both darker and lighter (because I clicked a not-quite-black and a not-quite-white to turn them into black and white).

I would go through those exact points but it's nearly bedtime in Hong Kong, so forgive me.

Then I sharpened the shot to within an inch of its life (some might say even more). With so many infrared shots fuzzy because of foliage movement, I think it's important to be as sharp as possible.

Again, you've done a lovely job and I look forward to your comments on the slight modification -- both good and bad. Everything's a matter of personal taste, after all, and this may not be yours.

Cheers,

Don

http://www.kleptography.com/dl/boutty_ir.jpg

[Don Ellis]

And another one. And another possibility... as I said, it's all a matter of individual taste. In both photos, I cropped a slight bit off the left side because there were light or dark patches leading my eye away from the focus of the photo.

In this case, the first step was setting a white point in the mid-branches of the tree just above the center of the building. I didn't need to set a black point. Then I sharpened, a little overall and some selectively...

http://www.kleptography.com/dl/boutty_ir2.jpg

And now I really am off to bed.

Cheers,

Don

[puttick]

Will this work with an S70, which has the same sensor as a G6?

Thanks

[Boutty]

Hi Don,

Thanks so much for looking into my humble pictures and the edited versions under the master's hands looked much more nicer. Very appreciated this, when I go to HK next time I would love to shout you 'yum cha' okay!;)

Best regards,
John

[puttick]

Will this work with an S70, which has the same sensor as a G6?


I tried the remote test, and it works. Now to find an R72 filter...

[Don Ellis]

I tried the remote test, and it works. Now to find an R72 filter... The remote test is pretty crude, but in the case of the D70 seems accurate. Take a look at these two sites and Google "nikon d70 infrared" for more:

http://www.naturfotograf.com/D70_rev05IR.html
http://bermangraphics.com/digicam/d70-infrared.htm

Depending on the size infrared filter you need, try www.lensmateonline.com (http://www.lensmateonline.com) or www.bhphotovideo.com (http://www.bhphotovideo.com)

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,

Don

[Don Ellis]

Hi Don,

Thanks so much for looking into my humble pictures and the edited versions under the master's hands looked much more nicer. Very appreciated this, when I go to HK next time I would love to shout you 'yum cha' okay!;)

Best regards,
John
Hi John,

You're quite welcome... I think you're doing a great job, especially with the added noise in the G6 that I didn't expect to see there. I would be happy to get together for yum cha... let's see, two photos, two baskets... ha gau and siu mai. Come soon. :)

Cheers,

Don

[Boutty]

I would be happy to get together for yum cha... let's see, two photos, two baskets... ha gau and siu mai. Come soon. :)

These are my favorite too! I will throw in a couple bottle of Victorian Bitters as well or you prefer Chinese Jasmine tea? :D

[Don Ellis]

These responses are taken from another thread:

I have a G6. I would like to try to shoot some infrared shots without formating my camera jus tto take them. Is there a certian filter that I need to get or something? I can't convert my pictures into Infrared because i don't have CS2, I only have Elements which doesn't have the Channel Mixer. Can anyone help me out? The R72 is the one... and the G6 takes pretty decent photos as long as you have a tripod and not too much wind in the foliage (like none).

The Channel Mixer is not what converts photos to infrared -- that technique is used on photos taken with near-infrared filters, i.e. filters that let a little visible light to come through so that there is some color in your infrared photo. True infrared photos, taken with a 093 filter, for example, are black-and-white and channel swapping doesn't work.

Once you have your near-infrared image, you can use the Channel Mixer to swap the Red and Blue channels. Personally I'm not a fan but plenty of people are.

Good luck. With a little patience, you should enjoy the investment. I guess you know you'll need a filter adapter such as Lensmate, yes?

Don

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I thought digital cameras had a filter inside the camera that block IR light... I could be wrong, but I'd check that out before you spend that much on a filter. They all pretty much do, unless they're specially designed for infrared, like the Canon 20Da, or they have a flip-out-of-the-way filter. But the strength of the filters varies a lot. The G1 is quite good but the G2 is awful (in my opinion). The G6 is probably the best of the lot after the G1. The R72 is the filter you want.

If you haven't read Don's sticky thread about IR, read that:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40366
probably most G-series IR questions are answered there, and those that aren't might be better off tagged onto that thread to help future generations...
Bryan
Good suggestion, so I'll grab this response and put it over there. Thanks a lot.

Don

[Duder]

anyone know how easy/difficult it is to modify a G6? is the IR cut filter easy to remove? my current infrared sony camera only has 4mp and a modified G6 would make an ideal replacement.

[lefturn99]

Why is this a sticky? It was a valid thread but it's dead.

[Duder]

yeah, and how many of the other pinned threads are that active? they're there for reference.

[sharksbite]

wow. i love all the photos.
some of them look like vintage ones.

i would be afraid to change anything inside my camera. so congats to the brave ones!

[mknabster]

Hey Don, I have a question about converting an old camera of mine to infrared. It's a Nikon Coolpix 2000, i think i am going to get the RM72 filter for my G6, but i just though of having a whole camera just for infrared, since i don't use it anyway. About doing the conversion, do i have to have someone do that for me, or could i do it myself?

[glowluzid]

Hey Don, I have a question about converting an old camera of mine to infrared. It's a Nikon Coolpix 2000, i think i am going to get the RM72 filter for my G6, but i just though of having a whole camera just for infrared, since i don't use it anyway. About doing the conversion, do i have to have someone do that for me, or could i do it myself?

I know you asked Don, but I thought I would reply too.

If you haven't, check out the following links:

http://www.burren.cx/photo/ir_cameras.html
http://maxmax.com/aXRayIRCameras.htm
http://www.lifepixel.com/IR.htm

I don't know anything about converting a CP2000, but the G6 is done by both lifepixel and burren.

I have had extensive discussions with David Burren about converting both a G3 and a pro1. I think he is very technically able (and I work in science) so he's got my vote. He is testing a pro1 of his own, and has done g3's and g6's. I opted to get the clear window, rather than an IR only to my G3. It's on the way to his shop now.

I do know that the G3 is claimed to be well suited for IR conversion since it retains some of the cool pastel colors that I get with the G1 (unmodded). Examples below. The G5 does not, but I do not know about the G6...

Hundreds more examples of images like the one below at
http://www.surrealcolor.com/
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a154/twede/Mystic%20Hawaii/PCC_canal_boat_small.jpg

[Warby]

Last year I bought a G1 off of eBay for the sole purpose of shooting IR. I got an R72 filter and achieved some results that I was happy with. However, I have always liked the idea of being able to shoot IR at sensible shutter speeds and handheld.

Well, I finally plucked up the courage to dismantle the G1 and take out the IR cut filter. I followed the instructions from Don's website, having read them through several times before starting. In all honesty, apart from the removal of the glue around the screws holding in the sensor, it was very straightforward.

The replacement glass didn't quite go to plan, but it worked out fine in the end. I got hold of some microscope slides and cover glasses, cut three pieces of glass to the correct size (grinding the rough edges off with a stone in a Demmel) for a total thickness of 2.97mm. I then glued them together using alcohol based mounting solution. This was left for 48 hours, but still was not fully dry and when handling the glass, the individual parts moved creating blemishes between them (maybe the wrong solution, but all I could get hold of). So I cleaned the solution off of the glass with alcohol and decided to try mounting the three pieces in the camera without first sticking them together. This made the job of inserting the new glass a bit more fiddly, but wasn't a major problem.

The best news of all is that having put it back together, all camera functions still work and the few test shots that I have taken would suggest that the 2.97mm total thickness of the glass is going to give me good focus across the full range of apertures.

Don, thanks for the tutorial on your website and for inspiring me to take the plunge. Now, where can I get a 093 filter from? :)

Paul

[rpolitsr]

Hi Warby

If you have the Conversion Lens Adapter LA-DC58 you can buy 58mm filters for your G1

I did a search in bhphotovideo.com for Infrared all brands 58mm (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=search&Q=&a=27_331&mnp=0.0&mxp=0.0&shs=&ci=131&ac=&Submit.x=13&Submit.y=10)

and a search in adorama.com (use ‘093 58mm’ as the search criteria) to find three 093 filters with 58mm threads ( http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=itemlist&cat1=Filters&cat2=Infra-Red%20Filters)

also a search in ebay.co.uk to find a 093 filter in Hong Kong (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-B-W-58mm-Infrared-Filter-093-87C_W0QQitemZ7593344835QQcategoryZ15217QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) :)

Three links to start with, because I’m just a reader of this thread and I do not have experience with IR photography.

[windshadow]

My own conversion lol

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=158446&page=2

[Andy_T]

Some potentially helpful information from another thread about who would help you in converting your G-seres:

Are you sold on doing clear glass? You will have to get an external filter. Most places convert to R72 or other IR transmit glass over the CCD, so you will no longer need a lens adapter and external filter.

see
http://www.maxmax.com and http://www.lifepixel.com in the US.
David Burren (http://www.burren.cx/photo/) in Australia.

Lifepixel will actually sell you just the glass and instructions to do it yourself. David is the only one that might do a clear glass. Note that with a clear glass over the CCD certain filters other than the R72 may give you chromatic dispersion/abberations at wide focal lengths.

Best regards,
Andy

[glowluzid]

Some potentially helpful information from another thread about who would help you in converting your G-seres

Andy, thanks for puting that in there and updating the links properly. I was too lazy...

[kepople]

I have aquired a Used G2 from Ebay. its on its way, but I need to order an IR filter...

Whats the concensus on the Lensmate G2 or do you need the Canon Adapter?

The Lensmate using 49 mm filters would be better because its smaller, but if its not as good...

THanks
Kirby

[TeddyLovessss]

hi. i just post a couple IR shots i did a few days ago in this thread Infrared with Canon 20D (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=56595&page=7&highlight=infrared)

my camera isn't modified, so it retains some crazy colors. i've never had my cameras modified (i'm cheap hehehe) so i dont have any experience with those modified ones, but i think one of their downsides is that they only give BW shots. they are nice if handle properly, i have no doubt about that. when i have money i think i'll give it a try. for now, i love color better ^^

[juliajothika]

I am Julia .New member to this forum.Can any one please tell me What cost will be the infra red camera? and where i can buy it?

[Jon]

They're not a straight commercial product, as described here. Rather members have modified (or had someone else modify, links included) their existing cameras by removing the IR-cutoff filter that's over the sensor. Cost of the modification, if you get it done, seems to run around $2-300. Remember - it's essentially irreversible, and Canon won't handle it under warranty if you have this done.

[frate]

Remember also that LifePixel (linked above) will sell you the glass to do the conversion yourself (about $95 for the G2 , uses the Nikon 4500 conversion glass). Following Don's instructions, it's not too difficult (see first article in this thread for links).

If you want to be a clean freak, like me, get a large clear plastic bag and fit it with some unpowdered latex gloves (or nitrile) to use as a "dry bag". If you clean the camera and your tools/materials before you put them in the bag, seal it, and inflate with compressed air (filtered, or canned), you've got a pretty good dust-free environment. Just don't inflate it too much. You need the slack in the bag to work.

- Dean

[approved]

Hey,
I found powershot G2, spent 2 hours and modified it (thanks for a guideline). But I made it slightlly different - I removed the IR-blocking filter and placed there a piece of IR Coking 007 filter (it is cheap, plastic - easy to cut a piece). Amaizng, but it worked. BUT I can't get sharp image on all apertures and different focus lengh - only tele 21 mm shows sometimes perfectly sharp image, but not always. I tried manual focusing but it does not work.
Can anyone advise on that&. Many thanks to you.

[rpolitsr]

The original IR blocking filter must be replaced by clear optical glass (perhaps an IR filter will also do the job) of the same refraction characteristics and thickness to maintain the optical path between the lens and the sensor; this way you get focused images.

That is the basic idea (I think). You can buy that optical glass cut to size for the G2 from the people that makes the IR conversion.

[approved]

many thanks, I have the same thoughts about optical path, so I'm going to remove my filter and replace it with clear glass. the only problem is to get that glass...I'm too far away from the manufacturer (I'm in russia so far).I'm going to replae it with window glass or will try to get some real optical glass from some russian manufacturer..

[thitipong]

great

[godkinphoto]

Very cool. I will have to try this.

[CaptainPete]

I think the quickest route to digital IR is to pick up a used Sony F707 or 717. These have a 'nightshot' mode which removes the IR blanking filter in front of the sensor. All you need then is to screw on an R72 IR filter and off you go with a 100% digital IR camera that will autofocus. The only small drawback is that these cameras force a fixed F2 aperture in this mode and limit the shutter speed to 1/60 max. For brighter light I fit ND filters to control exposures.

[RPCrowe]

I am trying to decide between getting a modified G-series camera and getting a modified dslr. I don't want to mess with filters and the unreasonable shutter speeds involved in their use.

I would want to print contest quality 8x10 prints from my IR captures. I usually crop pretty much in the camera and don't need much Photoshop cropping. The G-series cameras are very appealing since they are less expensive than a DSLR and they are relatively light weight and compact in size. I think I could easily carry a D-series camera along with my DSLR cameras in the field (I usually carry 2-3 DSLR cameras and lenses).

My question is: would I be able to get contest or exhibition quality 8x10 prints from a G-series camera? If so, would all the G-series cameras give me this quality. I am considering a modified G1, G2 or G3.

[JakeF150FX4]

I am trying to decide between getting a modified G-series camera and getting a modified dslr. I don't want to mess with filters and the unreasonable shutter speeds involved in their use.

I would want to print contest quality 8x10 prints from my IR captures. I usually crop pretty much in the camera and don't need much Photoshop cropping. The G-series cameras are very appealing since they are less expensive than a DSLR and they are relatively light weight and compact in size. I think I could easily carry a D-series camera along with my DSLR cameras in the field (I usually carry 2-3 DSLR cameras and lenses).

My question is: would I be able to get contest or exhibition quality 8x10 prints from a G-series camera? If so, would all the G-series cameras give me this quality. I am considering a modified G1, G2 or G3.


Same question here....I think maybe G7 is better cuz of 7.1 ? G5 has 5.0..do they both have a stabletly imagic (IS) ??

Thanks!
Jake

[Jon Smith]

Reviving an old thread. I'm curious as to whether anyone has found a source for a single piece of glass of a desirable thickness, rather than stacking slides and cover glass.

Also, does anyone who has done this conversion, have any leftover glass they wouldn't mind parting with?

[Oreyeon]

Hello, I have a secret, and without the helpful insight of Don Ellis and others in this forum, I would not have a working IR Converted camera, so instead of taking advantage of the situation and being a money hog, I have something to add that may be of help to someone looking to do their own Powershot G1 Conversion to IR. I too might be able to make some money if people out there still appreciate honesty and kindness.
Anyways, sometimes the solution to the most complex problems can be right under your nose, and ironically the solution to the clear glass is present in something that we, as photographers, use everyday. Picture Frame Glass...
I had a picture frame here and the glass was, according to my caliper, 2.23mm thick. However, comparing it side by side to the IR Cut filter that came out of my G1, it was just a hair bit thinner than the G1 IR Cut filter. SO, I bought a Carbide tipped Scribing tool, and went to work. In fact, I used the G1 IR Cut filter to trace onto the Picture Frame glass, matching corner to corner to start, so that I only had to do two cuts. I cut successfully, with only minor chipping, and best yet, I cleaned the glass, and it was WAY clearer than microscope slide glass. There were too many blemishes and imperfections in the microscope glass I bought. Once I had my one solid piece of glass cut, I clamped it together with the IR cut filter from the G1 and then used a diamond file to even and square everything out completely. Wallah!! An exact, clear replica of the IR Cut filter, that is just a mouse hair thinner than the IR Cut filter. So again, I took my camera apart, removed the stack of three glued microscope slides, and dropped in my new glass. FIT like a glove. I put everything back together, and went to shooting. PERFECT!! No more focus hunting, and the images look great so far. I can't wait to get my R72 filter so I can do some real IR shots.

Here are some examples of how my camera is shooting now with Picture Frame Glass for the lense...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mlrosier/Photography/CRW_0039_0295.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mlrosier/Photography/CRW_0033_0289.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mlrosier/Photography/CRW_0038_0294.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mlrosier/Photography/CRW_0042_0298.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mlrosier/Photography/CRW_0041_0297.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mlrosier/Photography/CRW_0043_0299.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mlrosier/Photography/CRW_0044_0300.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mlrosier/Photography/CRW_0045_0301.jpg

Also, if anyone needs a convert done, you can email me at mlrosier@comcast.net. I have a bunch of my glass left, and I'd be willing to do a few conversions for $160 each, that includes the shipping for me to send it back to you. That's half of what LifePixel charges, but then again, I offer no warranty, I also keep the IR Cut, I take no liability if your camera gets damaged in shipping, and you also have to pay to ship the camera to me. The conversions are somewhat of a pain in the rear. Especially when it comes to the glue removal part. Alternatively, I'll sell the glass pre-cut and smoothed for $55. That includes shipping. The glass is clear, and there may be some chipping around the edges, but it will not affect the picture quality.

[ducko]

Just to add my experience to this IR thread...
I had my Digital Rebel XT converted by a company called "Life Pixel" http://www.lifepixel.com/

I sent them the camera with a fully charged battery and a "nifty fifty" lens so that they could calibrate the focus. I am quite happy with what I got in return. It was pretty expensive though (approx. $400).

I later found another solution. In my quiver of cameras, I have a sony cybershot H9 (I know, I know) which has a night mode feature. When you flip the switch to night mode, it moves the IR filter out of the way of the sensor and the camera projects an IR light beam to assist with really dark enviroments. The problem is that it restricts the features that you can use on the camera such as being able to change the ISO and shutter speed. If you move the switch on the camera just enough so it doesn't go in to night mode, but it moves the filter out of the way of the sensor, you get the full spectrum of light! So, I purchased a filter adapter so that I could use a normal size R72 filter on the end of the lens (since Sony uses weird sizes on their lenses). Now I have a point and shoot camera that can shoot both regular colored shots, and IR shots. The only drawback is that it won't do it in RAW format. :-( I just have to make sure that I use a custom white balance and set it by shooting a picture of the lawn. That way all green plant life in the picture will show up white. Here is a picture that I took with the Sony:
http://ducko.smugmug.com/photos/270613521_KpkMg-L.jpg

Oh, I also set the camera to shoot in monochrome mode, otherwise I get a magenta hue to everything like this:

http://ducko.smugmug.com/photos/270615283_LrR6k-L.jpg

Note: The vignetting at the bottom is from where the sensor isn't totally moved away from the sensor. This will need to be cropped out.

[submannz]

I have done the conversion myself on a Canon G6 camera, the results are outstanding, details are amazing at almost all apertures. Autofocus works almost as well as it did before even through the IR filters, I have three 720nm, 760nm and 850nm, it only struggles in low light with the 850.

The G6 conversion was probably the easiest of all the conversions from the diagrams of the other G series conversions. I used one lab quality glass microsope slide and cut it into two. I have then places the two pieces loose no glue into the replacement of the IR block filter. I did this mainly as a proof of concept to confirm that it was going to work, with the idea of replacing the two pieces of glass with one single piece from picture framing glass (hard to find the right thickness) or house window glass, which is almost the perfect thickness.

If anyone has got any questions I am more than happy to try to answer your questions.

If you are interested I have posted many IR shots with this camera on a photography web site. All shots except a couple are taken with a G Series camera. http://www.usefilm.com/artist/danw

[ClickClick]

I have done the conversion myself on a Canon G6 camera, the results are outstanding, details are amazing at almost all apertures. Autofocus works almost as well as it did before even through the IR filters, I have three 720nm, 760nm and 850nm, it only struggles in low light with the 850.

The G6 conversion was probably the easiest of all the conversions from the diagrams of the other G series conversions. I used one lab quality glass microsope slide and cut it into two. I have then places the two pieces loose no glue into the replacement of the IR block filter. I did this mainly as a proof of concept to confirm that it was going to work, with the idea of replacing the two pieces of glass with one single piece from picture framing glass (hard to find the right thickness) or house window glass, which is almost the perfect thickness.

If anyone has got any questions I am more than happy to try to answer your questions.

If you are interested I have posted many IR shots with this camera on a photography web site. All shots except a couple are taken with a G Series camera. http://www.usefilm.com/artist/danw

You have some beautiful pictures. I have played with infrared photos, but I simply can not get the overall blueish tint to go away after doing the R&B channel swap.

[PlayersZ28]

I converted a G6 and found it to be one of the better G series cameras for IR work. I did it as a 720 only and put the filter internal. Currently I use a G3 and a Rebel XT for IR.

Looked through some of your pics submannz. Some nice stuff. The palms especially look good in IR, unfortunately I only see those when on vacations.

[Cali Agent]

Hi CDS,

That's kind... I hope someone finds it useful. Those who like infrared photography tend to be a little fanatical and this tutorial may help them reach another level of ease and performance.

As for tips, I'll start off with my best one:

The secret to escaping the magenta plague (which is interesting for only the first dozen shots and only infrequently thereafter) is to stop shooting in JPG.

1. Shoot RAW on P mode with AUTO white balance.
2. Convert to TIF in BreezeBrowser (for instance) using a CUSTOM white balance -- which is as simple as clicking the eyedropper in BB's preview screeen on anything that is a medium to dark gray (it really matters very little).

Using an unmodified G1 with a Hoya R72, you will often get localized pastel-green hues on foliage that are quite pleasing.

http://www.kleptography.com/images-ir72/yachtcar/crw_1975.jpg

But in any case you will be rid of the pinks and magentas and oranges.

Cheers,

Don

Would I still be able to get this kind of photo using a G9? Thanks in advance. This has really got me. If not I might just invest in another lower G camera.

[Cathan]

why not just get ir filter, then make photoshop or such enhancements, or are there significant advantages in getting camera converted?

[macroshot]

why not just get ir filter, then make photoshop or such enhancements, or are there significant advantages in getting camera converted?

The most significant advantage is the ability to shoot handheld. Otherwise, with an IR filter (like the Hoya R72 for example), you couldn't possibly shoot without a tripod due to the long shutter speeds required.

It is not uncommon to have 15 - 30 second exposures. On a calm day that won't present a problem. OTOH, any breeze has foliage swaying back & forth and results in nothing more than a blurred streak. It isn't an appealing end result. And those long exposures are in bright, full-sun shooting conditions!

[rpolitsr]

The most important change in the conversion is removing the IR blocking filter from the sensor. This dramatically increases the amount of light (IR light) reaching the sensor, counteracting the long exposure problem described by macroshot.

[PlayersZ28]

why not just get ir filter, then make photoshop or such enhancements, or are there significant advantages in getting camera converted?

As the other posts said, if you want to do some IR work then a converted camera is best. Otherwise the shutter speeds are way too long.

I have a G3 for sale that has been converted for IR if someone is looking for one.

[jdg371]

I just picked up a G2 for dirt cheap. Looking to convert it to IR with the DIY method.. anyone got more pictures of IR photography?

[PlayersZ28]

Some of mine from various cameras:

http://www.highpointimages.ca/images.htm

[PlayersZ28]

Here's some from my Rebel XT that I converted:

http://www.highpointimages.ca/images/ir/RebelXT/

[Digitalartist]

I've been playing extensively with a converted G9 and last week and I loved it so much that I took the plunge to convert a brand new 5 days old G10. I dont have issues with the image quality, but with the G10, the longest telephoto extension of the lens barrel causes it to hit the R70 IR filter mounted on a LADC58K adaptor. At the moment, my temporary solution is to extend the length of the LADC58K adaptor by about 2 mm by putting a rubber band as a gasket to lengthen the two halves of the LADC58K. It works fine but I'm mulling a longer term solution of using a step up ring to both increase the length of the adaptor, and to correct a second problem, which is vignetting at the wider end of the zoom range because the 58mm diameter of the LADC58K adaptor is too small. Otherwise I'm having great fun with the IR converted G10. You can view some of my IR pictures HERE (http://www.digitalartist.com.my/gallery.php?galreq=viewgalid=155&galoffs=1)

Here's a couple of teasers shot last week at the famed Angkor Wat Temples in Cambodia

http://www.digitalartist.com.my/img_collection/cambodiaseamreap/IR-Sunrise-Angkor-2PMs.jpg

http://www.digitalartist.com.my/img_collection/cambodiaseamreap/IR-Sunrise-Angkor-1PM.jpg

[RenaudVL]

Hello Yusuf,

Nice shots...

I am planning on converting a G9 shortly.
I was goint to try and see if I have room inside the camera to replace the Canon original filter with an Hoya R72 cut to the rigth size.

Is that wath you did,?
Can you elaborate on your modification procedure?

Thanks in advance

Renaud.

By the way I have a infrared modified Canon XT that I am wishing to sell, Any interest out there...PM please...

[PlayersZ28]

digitalartist,

are you getting vignetting in the corners of the shots? Looks darker in the upper right corner.

[Digitalartist]

digitalartist,

are you getting vignetting in the corners of the shots? Looks darker in the upper right corner.
Nope. In the above pictures, the vignetting was induced and intentional. At the widest focal length of the G10 lens, the retraction of the lens when the LADC58K adaptor is attached will actually create a circular picture frame with crisp edges. I figure, the longer term solution is to machine a conical shaped filter holder tube and use a IR filter larger than 58mm, say a 62mm. If the filter is too large it will interfere with the green focusing lamp. My conclusion is that its probably wiser to convert a G9 instead of a G10.

To Renaud. My IR conversion was done by a friend in Indonesia. I didn't ask him
what he replaced the hot mirror with. Will ask him and let you know later. Permanently replacing the hot mirror with a cut to size IR filter internally will prevent you from experimenting with screwing on other (coloured) filters. I will be trying out what kind of pictures can be produced with different cokin filters.coloured

[RenaudVL]

Thanks Yusuf, that info would be much welcome...
Looking forward earring back from you.

I have practice this weekend on a old SD800, and this one was pretty easy....

[Raffles97]

Just finished mod on G3 picked up cheap in excellent condition. Hardest thing was finding a Torx 3 bit for the last three screws.

Instead of going the window glass route I checked some unused glass filters and found a Toshiba skylight one which measured 2.2 mm and cut it up. A dremel tool and bit assortment comes in real handy and some diamond cutters scored the glass very well indeed.

Frankly it was the best 'high' in weeks to turn the reassembled camera on and find everything worked perfectly. Haven't yet tested all F settings but so far the 2.2 mm optical glass seems perfect for the job. *Seemed a bit harder to scribe and cut/polish than window glass which could be just properties of optical glass. Remember you don't have to be perfect around the edges since only the center portion of the 11mm x 12mm replacement glass is used by the camera.

[PlayersZ28]

So I take it you just replaced the hot filter with plain glass and are using an R72 or something on the front of the camera?

[Moogur]

Here's some from my Rebel XT that I converted:

http://www.highpointimages.ca/images/ir/RebelXT/

OMG! So I can convert my rebel xt into ir-camera!
You've just inspired me ))) so happy to find this forum!

[jmander]

I recently purchased a used G3, and completed the IR conversion today. However, after putting the camera back together, I found that the buttons on the right-hand side of the back of the camera (ie set, menu, trash, function, display, and the directional buttons) no longer work. Obviously, I messed something up, but I can't figure out what. Resulting from this, I have two questions for anyone here:

1) If I cannot fix the problem(s) internally, is it possible to use the wireless remote to set the time and date?

2) Any suggestions on how to isolate the problem?

Thanks in advance, and please keep in mind that I'm not the most tech-savvy person!

[PlayersZ28]

I recently purchased a used G3, and completed the IR conversion today. However, after putting the camera back together, I found that the buttons on the right-hand side of the back of the camera (ie set, menu, trash, function, display, and the directional buttons) no longer work. Obviously, I messed something up, but I can't figure out what. Resulting from this, I have two questions for anyone here:

1) If I cannot fix the problem(s) internally, is it possible to use the wireless remote to set the time and date?

2) Any suggestions on how to isolate the problem?

Thanks in advance, and please keep in mind that I'm not the most tech-savvy person!

An old post but likely related to the flat cable that plugs into the main board inside. If you did the conversion yourself then just pull it apart again and make sure all the cables are into the connectors and locked. Haven't had a G3 apart in a while so I'm going from memory.

[EOSFelix]

Hi all,
I read all the topic, and I saw that someone have a modified G6, amd I just bought a second hand G6 to convert to IR.
Do someone have a conversion tutorial to follow in order to modify my G6?
Is the operation simple?

many thanks all,
Felix.
;)

[DeeHF]

.........

[case01]

Best composition and good angle, inspired me to get new project based this picture..

[submannz]

Hi Felix,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. The G6 conversion is very easy, more easy than the guide on converting the g3. I was lazy in getting the correct thickness glass to replace the ir block filter, and used two pieces of microscope slide stacked on top of each other, which gave perfect auto focus so I didn't change it. If you have any more specific questions please feel free to ask and i will reply to you straight away.

[EOSFelix]

Hi Felix,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. The G6 conversion is very easy, more easy than the guide on converting the g3. I was lazy in getting the correct thickness glass to replace the ir block filter, and used two pieces of microscope slide stacked on top of each other, which gave perfect auto focus so I didn't change it. If you have any more specific questions please feel free to ask and i will reply to you straight away.

Thanks submannz for your response.
I've modified succesfully my second hand G6 a couple of month ago!
Very cool images indeed...but I've some AF problems. In macro mode the AF works properly, but when I use the G6 in the normal situation I don't receive the AF beep confirmation, so I often have out of focus images.
Any suggestion for this issue? I have the IR filtrer directly on the sensor, could the problem depends on the IR filter tickness?

Thanks in advance for suggestions.
Bye,
Felix.

[submannz]

Hey Felix,

Yes if the thickness is not enough above the sensor it will only focus in the macro ranges automatically, with one microscope slide I had the same problem you mention here.

I have external IR filters to give me more options of the style of Infrared I can use based on the filter types. I typically used 720,760 and 850 filters.

I am certain if you buy a microscope slide and cut a piece off this and place this on top of your inplace IR filter I am sure this will fix your autofocus issue to focus 90% of the time, just one thing to note is the air between the filters may cause some banding in your photo's, I had this problem only after I cleaned all glass with iso alcohol.

I am about to convert a Powershot Pro1 in the next few weeks, it should give me better shots with wider angle.

Regards

Dan

[EOSFelix]

Thanks again Dan for the precious info you gave me!

[submannz]

Your welcome Felix, let me know how you get on if you try it.

[steve40]

Here is a test shot with an unconverted G12, plus Hoya R72 filter. I set a custom white balance from a sheet of printer paper, in full sunlight with the filter on the lens.

I am going to do some more experimenting when I get the time, but for now the G12 seems to be a quite capable IR camera even unconverted. For those who want to know ISO was 200, mode AV=F4, shutter speed was about 1.6 seconds late afternoon. The camera is IR sensitive enough for the autofocus, and exposure metering to work just fine. Oh yes there was some exposure compensation used, so the red channel would not be over exposed -1EV.

By the way F4 was chosen because it is the sweet spot for the G12 lens, for the best combination of resolution and depth of field.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm80/steve40/IR_Test_W.jpg

[gurleenkaur]

hey DON thanks for the info...:)