PDA

View Full Version : 20D official release on Canon's site


NickC
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 15:31
From Canon's site.
http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20040819_eos_20d.html


-----

CANON'S NEW 8.2-MEGAPIXEL EOS 20D DIGITAL SLR DELIVERS SPEED, PRECISION AND VALUE TO NEWS, WEDDING AND PORTRAIT PHOTOGRAPHERS

New 8.2-Megapixel EOS 20D Digital SLR Features DIGIC II Image Processor, 9-Point Autofocus and Up to 23 Consecutive Frames at Five Frames Per Second

LAKE SUCCESS, N.Y. Aug. 19, 2004 - Designed for advanced amateurs, photojournalists, wedding photographers and professionals who purchase their own equipment, Canon's new EOS" 20D digital SLR combines speed, image quality, ease-of-use, and ruggedness with compact size and light weight to deliver the highest performance in its class. Available in September, the EOS 20D digital SLR will carry an estimated street price of $1,499* without a lens; $1,599* with the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5 -5.6 zoom lens; and $1,999* with the new EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM Wide Angle Zoom lensâ€*.

The EOS 20D SLR has a new APS-C (15.0 x 22.5 mm) 8.2 megapixel CMOS image sensor designed and manufactured by Canon. It is the first mid-range digital SLR to offer high-speed continuous shooting of five frames-per-second with a burst of 23 frames at highest JPEG resolution. Uncannily responsive, the camera starts up in 0.2-second and has a shutter release time lag of only 65 milliseconds.

The all-new 9-point AF unit with high-precision cross-type sensor raises the bar on speed, accuracy and precision in mid-range SLRs. The new AF system has one full stop better low-light performance than its EOS 10D predecessor. The new E-TTL II autoflash metering system, inherited from Canon's EOS-1D Mark II professional model, takes into account the distance, reflectance and position of the subject for highly stable, accurate and intelligent exposure calculations.

News Photography/Photojournalism
The new camera's combination of speed and available light shooting capability make it especially appealing to newspaper photographers. Aside from the five frames-per-second burst rate, the EOS 20D digital SLR delivers superb low light performance and exceptionally low noise, even at high ISOs. In fact, images taken at ISO 1600 are approximately equal in noise to those taken with the EOS 10D model at ISO 400. The EOS 20D digital SLR can be used as a backup camera for the high-performance EOS-1D Mark II digital SLR. It is also an excellent choice in its own right for many professional imaging applications where its smaller size and lighter weight give it an edge.

Wedding/Portrait Photography
The Canon designed and manufactured CMOS sensor has a maximum resolution of 3504 x 2336 pixels, which is sufficient for very large prints (up to 16 x 24 inches) with fine detail. Like its big brother, the Canon EOS-1D Mark II, the EOS 20D digital SLR satisfies the wedding photographer's benchmark: facial details in group-shots. The wedding photography business is changing. Consumers are now looking for more natural and candid documentary coverage of their weddings. With the speed and large buffer of the EOS 20D digital SLR, wedding and portrait photographers have a cost effective solution for capturing both posed and candid event photographs.

"Canon continues to endow advanced amateurs, photo enthusiasts and professional photographers with the highest-quality digital SLR cameras available by combining sophisticated camera features with the latest digital imaging technology innovations," said Yukiaki Hashimoto, senior vice president and general manager of the consumer imaging group at Canon U.S.A., Inc., a subsidiary of Canon Inc. (NYSE: CAJ). "In addition, Canon is one of the only companies in the industry that designs and manufactures the three primary components of its digital SLRs: Optics, Image Sensor, and Image Processor."

Canon uses design and technology for customers' sake, not for the sake of technology. Canon has listened to owners of the EOS 10D digital SLR and has considered their opinions carefully. This accounts for the new menu format, the color-coded menu display icons, the reduction of buttons and the addition of the highly efficient Multi-controller, among many other features.

When Size Matters
The EOS 20D digital SLR is both smaller and lighter than the 10D model. The 20D camera is about 3.6 ounces lighter and Canon reduced the width, height and depth by 5.7, 2 and 3.5 mm, respectively. The shutter unit, mirror box, main mirror, pentaprism, focusing screen and viewfinder optical unit have all become smaller as they were optimized for the APS-C sensor. The 20D digital SLR has nearly 100 fewer parts than the 10D model. The new camera retains the rugged stainless steel chassis and magnesium alloy body covers of its predecessor for outstanding durability.

New 9-Point Autofocus System
The sophisticated 9-point autofocus system has a high-precision cross-type sensor in the center position. This new design seen for the first time in the 20D model provides full cross-type performance with maximum apertures as small as f/5.6, yet it achieves up to 3 times the standard focusing precision when used with EF lenses featuring maximum apertures larger than or equal to f/2.8. A new, convenient Multi-controller provides fast and easy AF point selection.

New High Speed Shutter
The EOS 20D has a newly developed shutter with a top speed of 1/8000 sec., user-settable in 1/3 and 1/2 stop increments (in shutter speed priority AE and manual modes) and a maximum flash synchronization speed of 1/250 sec. First or second curtain flash sync is possible. The shutter's APS-C configuration allows a reduction in the size of the unit, smaller shutter blades with lower inertial mass, and shorter travel distance. Stronger magnets are used for each shutter curtain, permitting better control of the blades. A semiconductor switch replaces the traditional sync contacts, ending scorching and frictional wear while at the same time increasing the limit for trigger circuit voltage to 250V. The result of these changes is a more rugged and reliable shutter unit with substantially improved performance.

EF and EF-S Lenses
Particularly among advanced amateur and professional photographers, there has been a growing need for affordable zoom lenses that support true wide-angle and ultra-wide-angle photography. In response to this market demand and to provide users with a truly comprehensive lens system, Canon has expanded its EF-S lens offerings to now include four lenses - the new EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM and EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM zoom lenses as well as standard and USM versions of the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 zoom lens. (Canon U.S.A., launched the standard EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 zoom lens in August of 2003 in conjunction with the EOS Digital Rebel SLR.) The EOS 20D digital SLR is also fully compatible with all Canon EF lenses and with the entire system of Canon EX Speedlites and accessories, including the new Speedlite 580EX flash.

White Balance Compensation
The EOS 20D camera has professional level white balance controls. In addition to Auto, it has six presets, a Custom setting and direct specification of color temperature. White balance can be corrected for blue, amber, magenta or green; white balance bracketing, up to +/- 3 whole stops, can be performed for magenta-green as well as blue-amber.

Flash Forward: Canon Speedlite 580EX
When the EOS 20D digital camera is used with the built-in flash or the new Speedlite 580EX, color temperature data transmission is enabled. The camera has an extensive complement of white balance controls, processing parameters, bracketing options, shooting modes and custom functions that permit the camera to be configured for any situation; the revised menu format, simplified control layout and clever new Multi-controller make the camera easy to use.

Evolved E-TTL II Flash Exposure Control
Though still compatible with all EX-series Speedlites, the "smarter" E-TTL II system captures the subject as a "plane" and ensures that images containing various colors and levels of reflection are captured accurately and optimally. The system compares the ambient light with the reflected pre-flash off the subject reported in all 35 metering zones and selects the areas with a small difference to be weighted for flash exposure calculation. This system also eliminates or under weights areas with large difference recognizing them as an extremely reflective object in the background or as a highly reflective subject, smartly ensuring it by considering the distance information data provided from compatible EF lenses. The system similarly prevents over-exposure when photographers lock focus and recompose the shot by considering the flash output level calculated according to the broader distance. The camera also allows users to select an average metering pattern by using its custom function settings.

New CMOS Image Sensor and DIGIC II Image Processor
The EOS 20D digital SLR includes Canon's latest CMOS image sensor technology as well as the new DIGIC II Image Processor. The CMOS features high-speed 4-channel data reading, brilliant new microlens technology, a 2nd generation, on-chip noise-reduction circuit, and low-noise, high-speed amp, which produces accurate color, extremely low noise and fast recording even at ISO's of 400 and above. Canon's DIGIC II image processor is without question, the most powerful imaging processor that the company has ever put into a digital camera. It boasts improved color reproduction of high-saturation, bright subjects, improved auto white balance precision, and wider dynamic range in highlight areas. In addition to its image quality improvements, the DIGIC II chip is also responsible for speeding up camera performance in areas such as start-up time, autofocus calculation, card-writing speed, direct printing and data transfer speed through the new USB 2.0 High Speed interface.

New .CR2 Raw Format
The Canon EOS 20D digital SLR incorporates the same new RAW format featured in Canon digital cameras from the EOS-1D Mark II model onward. The file extension is .CR2 (Canon RAW, 2nd edition). The RAW data records the white balance data, processing parameters, and other settings. All these settings can be edited freely with compatible RAW file conversion software such as Canon's EOS Viewer Utility and Digital Photo Professional software, which are supplied with the camera.

Exif 2.21 Metadata and Adobe Color Space
There is no need to worry about color space any longer. The EOS 20D complies with DCF 2.0, revised to support Adobe RGB, and Exif 2.21. Images taken in Adobe RGB will have the Adobe RGB color space information, not the ICC profile, appended to the Exif information. (If Adobe RGB is selected from the 20D digital camera's Color Space menu, all processing parameters are available.) Therefore, applications and devices compatible with DCF 2.0 and Exif 2.21 will be able to handle Adobe RGB in the same way as sRGB. When software compatible with Exif 2.21 is used, images captured with the EOS 20D will open automatically in the Adobe RGB color space. When a printer that complies with Exif 2.21 is used, the printer will adjust the color saturation of the print suitably.

Camera Direct Printing
As with the EOS 10D model, the EOS 20D digital SLR is compatible with PictBridge, CP Direct and Bubble Jet Direct print transfer protocol. It also enables DPOF Print Ordering, Version 1.1. The basic specifications are the same as those of the EOS-1D Mark II digital SLR. Printer communications can be set to Normal or PTP (Picture Transfer Protocol) with the menu's Communication setting (PTP is required for PictBridge direct printing). PictBridge compliant and Compact Photo Direct printers allow up to eight steps of horizontal trimming, up to five steps of vertical trimming, and a range of print sizes.

Updated Software
The EOS 20D will be supplied with the latest versions of Canon's popular Digital Photo Professional and EOS Viewer Utility software, as well as Adobe Photoshop Elements 2.0 for image editing.

Kit Configurations
The EOS 20D will be available in body-only or two separate zoom lens kit configurations. All three kits include the camera body as well as the BP-511A lithium-ion battery pack, Battery Charger CG-580, USB Cable IFC-400PCU, Video Cable VC-100, a wide neckstrap, 3 software CDs, printed instruction manuals, and a 1-year Canon U.S.A. limited warranty. The first zoom lens kit includes the standard EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 lens and the second kitâ€Â* includes the EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM Wide Angle Zoom lens.

About Canon U.S.A., Inc.
Canon U.S.A., Inc. delivers consumer, business-to-business, and industrial imaging solutions. The Company is listed as one of Fortune's Most Admired Companies in America, and is ranked #35 on the latest Business Week list of "Top 100 Brands." Its parent company Canon Inc. (NYSE:CAJ) is a top patent holder of technology, ranking second overall in the U.S. in 2003. Canon Inc. achieved global revenues of $29.9 billion in 2003; 9.8 billion of which came from Canon Americas. For more information, visit www.usa.canon.com.

Biko
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 15:40
I posted these links in sticky, now there's a new thread

dpreview are reviewing it!

http://www.dpreview.com/


Also review here!

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/20d-part1.shtml

RichardtheSane
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 16:00
This link has some more information

http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/eos20d/

It uses a completely new battery grip.

Swines.

DirtyHarry
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 16:32
This link has some more information

http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/eos20d/

It uses a completely new battery grip.

Swines.


http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/default.asp

apart from new battery grip, im not impressed.....it has ETTL 2 and its smaller and thinner but im not convinced.

Ill wait for more in-depth reviews before i make a full decision. :?

:wink:

RichardtheSane
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:00
Ill wait for more in-depth reviews before i make a full decision. :?

:wink:

My thinking too.

It would have to give a significant boost in AF perfomance, low light performance and noise to start to sway me and get me shelling out the cash.

(Although I would rather like one!)

slin100
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:12
Ill wait for more in-depth reviews before i make a full decision. :?

:wink:

My thinking too.

It would have to give a significant boost in AF perfomance, low light performance and noise to start to sway me and get me shelling out the cash.

Well, the introduction of a high-precision cross-type center AF sensor with 3-times the standard precision, 1 stop improvement in low-light focus performance, and noise performance at ISO 1600 equivalent to the 10D at ISO 400 seems significant to me!

CoolToolGuy
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:20
Rob Galbraith's review says that the 20D can take advantage of fast CF cards, and there are other improvements related to writing images and viewing them. Here's the link:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6458-7153

Have Fun,

drisley
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:21
I can't believe they put a B&W mode in the camera! :lol:
That seems to go against the thinking of buying a DSLR.

Also, it seems weird that the battery grip uses 6x AA batteries, doesnt it?
Would there still be room for 2 bp511 batteries?

CoolToolGuy
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:23
I can't believe they put a B&W mode in the camera! :lol:
That seems to go against the thinking of buying a DSLR.

Also, it seems weird that the battery grip uses 6x AA batteries, doesnt it?
Would there still be room for 2 bp511 batteries?

Apparently, the AA option is a 'last resort' sort of thing. The grip is designed for 2 BP511s, and the holder for the AAs is included.

Tom W
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:25
Well, the introduction of a high-precision cross-type center AF sensor with 3-times the standard precision, 1 stop improvement in low-light focus performance, and noise performance at ISO 1600 equivalent to the 10D at ISO 400 seems significant to me!

That sounds real promising. If all these hold true, I'll have to do some serious thinking.

drisley
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:31
Also, I thought the flash sync was increased to 1/250sec?
Here it says 1/200sec...
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/page2.asp

habers
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:34
Also, I thought the flash sync was increased to 1/250sec?
Here it says 1/200sec...
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/page2.asp

it says 1/250
• Flash X-Sync: 1/250 sec

drisley
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:34
Actually, under the shutter stat it says flash xsync is 1/200s
Under the flash stat area it says 1/250s

habers
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:36
Actually, under the shutter stat it says flash xsync is 1/200s
Under the flash stat area it says 1/250s

Hmm, both say 1/250 for me

drisley
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:39
Yeah, it does here too now.
They must have caught the typo.

It's funny, the 20D cmos sensor is actually smaller than on the 10d/300d.

slin100
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:39
It's a minor thing but I also noticed that they got rid of the 6V flash trigger voltage limit. It's now 250V, which means you can use pretty much use any off-brand flash unit without frying your shutter mechanism!

sGu
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:40
well, i hope everyone jumps in to buy 20D so they can lower 1D MK II's price, then i'll grab mine :wink:

drisley
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:44
The 20D has long exposure noise reduction that can be enabled/disabled.
Was this an option on the 10D? Is this done on the fly?
I hated how the G3 took twice as long to take a second frame.
The 300D did all it's reduction on the fly, and still had much less noise.

who10
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:50
well, i hope everyone jumps in to buy 20D so they can lower 1D MK II's price, then i'll grab mine :wink:

Well, I'm doing my part... while at my favorite local shop discussing my recent experience with the 70-300 DO on my 10D... got the news... I am officially slot number one on their order list! :D

CoolToolGuy
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 18:02
Only slightly off-thread - I was doing my normal eBay thing and decided to do a search on 'Canon 20D' - there are two items already listed with Canon 20D in the title - an 18-55 EF-S lens and an eyepiece extender. Geez, those folks don't waste any time!

Have Fun,

Mike H
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 18:18
well, i hope everyone jumps in to buy 20D so they can lower 1D MK II's price, then i'll grab mine :wink:

Geez, maybe you can buy my Mark II. :roll:

I really like what I've read so far on the 20D. Now I wish I had waited ... :oops:

Mike H

gerolamo
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 18:29
Is it just me, or the samples are a bit soft / out of focus?

Maybe my eyes are tired.

rraman
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 18:37
dpreview says that you can either buy just the body, or body with 18-55 lens. Aren't they going to have a kit with 17-85 lens?

CoolToolGuy
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 18:42
Yes. The Canon Press release says they will. Dpreview said that their info was pre-release, so this may be a last-minute decision by Canon.

A slight tangent - It may be a typo, but Canon says they will be selling the USM version of the 18-55 separately, but the press release for the 20D doesn't have 'USM' in the description of the kit with the 18-55. Perhaps they are trying to keep the cost down?

Have Fun,

mjordan
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 19:00
Can we go ahead and talk the back focus problem to death now, so when the camea comes out we won't have to read about it so much. :wink:

:lol:

This sounds a lot like the Digital EOS 3 version that was rumored a while back. I have the 10D and though I would love to have the higher burst number for the action stuff I do, I just don't know about it being lighter and smaller and still being better. I think if I could afford one, I'd still go for the 1D MKII. It will be interesting to see what people say about it when they get their hands on it though. You sure didn't hear a lot of rumors about it just before the offical announcement came out. All the rumor mongrals must have been slacking on the job. :D

Mike

Belmondo
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 19:10
What interested me a lot about the press release was not the technical minutia, but their opening line:

CANON'S NEW 8.2-MEGAPIXEL EOS 20D DIGITAL SLR DELIVERS SPEED, PRECISION AND VALUE TO NEWS, WEDDING AND PORTRAIT PHOTOGRAPHERS

This would suggest that they intend to actively promote this as a crossover professional camera.

Tom W
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 19:39
What interested me a lot about the press release was not the technical minutia, but their opening line:

CANON'S NEW 8.2-MEGAPIXEL EOS 20D DIGITAL SLR DELIVERS SPEED, PRECISION AND VALUE TO NEWS, WEDDING AND PORTRAIT PHOTOGRAPHERS

This would suggest that they intend to actively promote this as a crossover professional camera.

Crossover professional? Is that like a metrophotographer? :)

About 12 hours ago, I wouldn't even think of considering this camera. I now consider it. I'd better get some sleep before I do something silly.

Did I mention that Onecall is taking pre-orders?

drisley
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 20:19
I just discovered that the 20D actually has a SMALLER image buffer for raw images than the 10D.

10D - 3fps - 9 frame raw buffer
20D - 5fps - 6 frame raw buffer

I would prefer a larger buffer over faster framerates.
The 10D allows for 3 seconds of continuous shooting, while the 20D offers just over 1 second. Very sad.

blinking8s
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 20:42
when i see some field test reviews...im sold...sadly

ive about outgrown my 300d in 7 months. I didnt expect to get this deep into photography at all. It looks like it will be a good upgrade for me. As well as switching majors in school to photography, cause its fun as hell :)

Although I wouldnt complain about a 10d for cheap at all! Money is a little hard to come by lately...college is so expensive! yeesh

photography By Evangelos
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 20:44
This grip thing is not to clear to me? You cant use the Grip that you have been using on the D30, D60, 10D? If so this stinks. The Body over all looks the same to me.


:evil:

Mike H
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 20:49
I just discovered that the 20D actually has a SMALLER image buffer for raw images than the 10D.

10D - 3fps - 9 frame raw buffer
20D - 5fps - 6 frame raw buffer

I would prefer a larger buffer over faster framerates.
The 10D allows for 3 seconds of continuous shooting, while the 20D offers just over 1 second. Very sad.

Drisley, that has to be an error. Just wait a day or two 'til things settle down! They'll get all of that straightened out. :D

Mike H

Mike H
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 20:53
This grip thing is not to clear to me? You cant use the Grip that you have been using on the D30, D60, 10D? If so this stinks. The Body over all looks the same to me.


:evil:

Right, you need a new grip. Apparently because they made the new body a little smaller and with a slight re-design (beyond shrinking it). The good news is that the new grip allows you to use different types of batteries. :D

Mike H

CoolToolGuy
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 20:57
This grip thing is not to clear to me? You cant use the Grip that you have been using on the D30, D60, 10D? If so this stinks. The Body over all looks the same to me.


:evil:

The body is a different size. That is one of the first things they point out. RTFM.

Aylwin
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 21:06
...noise performance at ISO 1600 equivalent to the 10D at ISO 400 seems significant to me!

Really!? That's hard to believe! :shock: If that's the case then I'm definitely upgrading. Why? Why? Why did Canon do this to me? I don't want to spend anymore but I can't help it! :cry:

photography By Evangelos
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 21:12
Price? Also when will it ship??

Mike H
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 21:12
I just discovered that the 20D actually has a SMALLER image buffer for raw images than the 10D.

10D - 3fps - 9 frame raw buffer
20D - 5fps - 6 frame raw buffer

I would prefer a larger buffer over faster framerates.
The 10D allows for 3 seconds of continuous shooting, while the 20D offers just over 1 second. Very sad.

Drisley, that has to be an error. Just wait a day or two 'til things settle down! They'll get all of that straightened out. :D

Mike H

Gee, I get to slam myself here: I was all wrong. I just read at Rob Galbraith's site that the buffer really is 6 shots! I'm almost glad; I don't feel quite as bad now about the $4500 I dropped on the Mark II. I still feel bad, just not as bad.

Mike H

CoolToolGuy
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 21:14
Price? Also when will it ship??

http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20040819_eos_20d.html

Have Fun,

photography By Evangelos
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 21:18
Looks to me that we will need new Grips if the body is not the same size.

photography By Evangelos
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 21:23
Looks like canon will be Griping some of this $$$$$ from us on the new Grips.

CoolToolGuy
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 21:28
Looks like canon will be Griping some of this $$$$$ from us on the new Grips.

So come on, now. Its reasonable to assume that your lenses will fit from body to body, but a battery grip?

photography By Evangelos
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 21:35
Yea this is to much of me to expect. I guess I will ebay the grip when I sell the camera. I am keeping one 10D with grip and only buying one 20D. I am calling B&H to see when they are taking orders. :shock:

timmyquest
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 21:42
What an awsome thing to come home too.

I think i'm most suprised about the 580EX flash. Someone brought up a rumor of it today and he was quickly shot down, i guess he has the last laugh now.

With the listed prices i will most certainly get one, sadly it looks like however the 17-85 is out of my price range.

None the less, this is fantastic. I really think this camera is going to suprise a lot of people.

timmyquest
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 21:43
In fact, images taken at ISO 1600 are approximately equal in noise to those taken with the EOS 10D model at ISO 400.

I missed that one, WOWOWOWOWOW!

I'm excited...so excited.

timmyquest
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 21:44
when i see some field test reviews...im sold...sadly

ive about outgrown my 300d in 7 months. I didnt expect to get this deep into photography at all. It looks like it will be a good upgrade for me. As well as switching majors in school to photography, cause its fun as hell :)

Although I wouldnt complain about a 10d for cheap at all! Money is a little hard to come by lately...college is so expensive! yeesh

What he said

WOWOWOWOW

i'm done, i think :-D

Persian-Rice
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 21:45
Not a massive upgrade from the 10D that many were claiming it would have..............
Some of the new features are good, but Canon is trying to sell a camera not create doubts. I won't believe anyhting until I see it.

Canon has still not made medium range camera worth upgrading from the 10D yet. Seems like the 1d's are still going to be the upgrade of choice..........

Vegas Poboy
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 21:55
Well it seems I'm going to help Canon shares go up. I wanted a backup to the 10D & really don't want to drop the $4500.00 for the Mark II so I'll place my order on the 23rd for the 20D. I hate the fact I can't use the same big ED or that it's 1.6x instead of the 1.3x but oh well, Once received I'll send in my 10D for service and use one for close ups & the other for telephoto shots. Besides the $2500.00 in savings that another couple of lenses.
Merry Christmas to me in October :D
Can't beat em Join em
I'm hooked

cmM
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 22:36
i'm right on the bandwaggon. This camera is mighty tempting. I won't buy it, but I am considdering it (for the future that is... next year).

Of course, the decision shall be made as soon as a production camera is reviewed, by more actual users.

A lot of good stuff canon's coming out with. What's up with the 580EX? Also, a USM version of the 18-55 :roll:

We'll see.... the whole internet has been stirred by those photos. Now this....I think I'll disconnect my DSL until the waters clear.

DocFrankenstein
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 22:47
I don't see a major reason to upgrade my rebel yet... :?

I'm with persian-rice, 1Ds would be the way to go, if I had the $$$

Aylwin
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 22:47
Not a massive upgrade from the 10D that many were claiming it would have..............

I thought so too but I'm changing my tune now. My main concern was picture quality and noise levels due to the higher pixel density. But if it's true that the 20D has noise levels at ISO1600 similar to the 10D at ISO400 then, imho, that's enough to make me upgrade. I could care less (although I won't complain ;)) about the addition 2 mega pixels. It still sounds unbelievable to me though so I'll have to wait till the in depth comparative tests come out.

In addition, I think the better/faster autofocus, ridiculously fast startup, and all the other goodies make the 20D a significant upgrade. Of course, it sounds much better in a press release so let's see what the word is in the next few weeks...

drisley
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 23:00
Well, Imaging-Resource has already run tests.
The 20D does indeed have lower noise than the 10D, but not by quite as much as Canon said. However, that is from a pre-production camera, so the final may even be better.
The 20D has lower noise at ISO1600 than the 300D at ISO800. Perhaps with the final edition of the camera, it can have ISO1600 noise equal to ISO400.
Also, IR said that in addition to the noise level being technically lower on the 20D, the fine grain actually makes the noise seem even less noticable.
So perhaps Canon wasnt exagerating in it's claim.

I'm still a little miffed about the small 6 frame Raw buffer, but now that I see that the 20D is actually the fastest DSLR when it comes to CF write speeds, I dont feel so bad. When coupled with a Sandisk Extreme card, you can still fire off 1 shot every 2 seconds even when the buffer is full.
Not bad especially considering the camera's price point.

Also I've read a couple previews that say the 20D may have the best image quality of ANY Dslr currently available. That combined with the much improved AF again makes the 20D very desirable, again because of the price.

Persian-Rice
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 23:42
I agree, if true, the noise deal is extremely impressive.............
I am one that is hard to persuade. I guess you can say, not stubborn but umm paranoid.....

To me, the fast startup is a non issue, I just don't care. Good feature nevertheless. The better AF and whatnot are great, nothing to take away from it. Looking at the bigger picture, you are going to spend about 2G's for the camera & BG-E2.......................same price as a used 1D.
As for size, to me its a negative point, for a big guy like me with big hands, the bigger the better.

It's not that I'm being a 20D hater, its just that I'm somewhat disappointed. I was hoping for a 2500-3000 camera with better features, build etc etc. Seems like Canon still lacks that body right in the middle. It's sort of like all or nothing right now. To me, the 10D/20D just doesn't cut it, the 1D MKII is great but about $1500 out of my price range........

Cheers.

timmyquest
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 23:48
It's not that I'm being a 20D hater, its just that I'm somewhat disappointed. I was hoping for a 2500-3000 camera with better features, build etc etc. Seems like Canon still lacks that body right in the middle. It's sort of like all or nothing right now. To me, the 10D/20D just doesn't cut it, the 1D MKII is great but about $1500 out of my price range........

I think your just upset that they did not make your camera yet. To me, what you want is not supose to be this camera.

I'm going to start saving every penny i make from now until i get this camera. (i really wish i hadnt gotten into an accident, that would have paid for half the camera already :cry: :cry: )

blinking8s
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 23:49
timmy im with you...time to count the coins too!

Dooglla
19th of August 2004 (Thu), 23:52
I'm in too...looks like my 300D will be on the market 8) .

Jesper
20th of August 2004 (Fri), 00:06
*drool*, *drool*.... :P

- ISO 1600 supposed to be as clean as ISO 400 on the 10D
- One full stop better low-light AF performance
- New 9-point AF system
- New 8.2 megapixel sensor and DIGIC II processor
- USB 2.0 interface
- CR2 RAW format, just like the 1D Mark II
- E-TTL II
- EF-S compatible mount

There's also a new flash, the 580 EX!

Now I was planning to keep my 10D, but especially the first point, noise at ISO 1600 as low as ISO 400 on the 10D, is getting me to reconsider.....

Canon has again leapfrogged Nikon...

Persian-Rice
20th of August 2004 (Fri), 00:10
It's not that I'm being a 20D hater, its just that I'm somewhat disappointed. I was hoping for a 2500-3000 camera with better features, build etc etc. Seems like Canon still lacks that body right in the middle. It's sort of like all or nothing right now. To me, the 10D/20D just doesn't cut it, the 1D MKII is great but about $1500 out of my price range........

I think your just upset that they did not make your camera yet. To me, what you want is not supose to be this camera.

I'm going to start saving every penny i make from now until i get this camera. (i really wish i hadnt gotten into an accident, that would have paid for half the camera already :cry: :cry: )

Ya you are right, the 10D is still pretty much an entry level dSLR, so any upgrade of it is as well. I just hope I don't end up having to buy a mkII then having canon announce an entry level pro camera the next week.

Cadwell
20th of August 2004 (Fri), 00:34
I just discovered that the 20D actually has a SMALLER image buffer for raw images than the 10D.

10D - 3fps - 9 frame raw buffer
20D - 5fps - 6 frame raw buffer

I would prefer a larger buffer over faster framerates.
The 10D allows for 3 seconds of continuous shooting, while the 20D offers just over 1 second. Very sad.

Well that does it for me. No way is a 6 frame raw buffer big enough for sports shooting and motorsport in particular :( (Yes, I know it has a bigger JPEG buffer but I don't consider that an option - I shoot raw exclusively nowadays).

timmyquest
20th of August 2004 (Fri), 00:35
I'm in too...looks like my 300D will be on the market 8) .

Anyone noticing a trend?

3 300D owners all very happy with this new camera.

When it came down to it the 10D just wasnt worth the extra $500. Now, that $500 is gonna go a long way.

I'm hoping that best buy will do another 12 month 0% intrest thing. Thats how i got my 300D. $200 payments for a couple months, i had a great new camera and it hardly cost me a dime when it was stretched out like that.

timmyquest
20th of August 2004 (Fri), 00:37
I just discovered that the 20D actually has a SMALLER image buffer for raw images than the 10D.

10D - 3fps - 9 frame raw buffer
20D - 5fps - 6 frame raw buffer

I would prefer a larger buffer over faster framerates.
The 10D allows for 3 seconds of continuous shooting, while the 20D offers just over 1 second. Very sad.

Well that does it for me. No way is a 6 frame raw buffer big enough for sports shooting and motorsport in particular :( (Yes, I know it has a bigger JPEG buffer but I don't consider that an option - I shoot raw exclusively nowadays).

I'm not saying i'm happy about the raw buffer thing we're seeing here. But to me, i shoot mostly JPEG anymore. The difference in RAW just wasnt worth the time/memory for me. But thats sparking a whole other debate.

I guess...i just dont see the use in RAW for action photography. And for a guy who dislikes the taste of the "Digital dark room" going through 300 (or whatever) raws is just not something i'd want to do...hmm, maybe i just need a faster computer :twisted:

Cadwell
20th of August 2004 (Fri), 00:44
The difference in RAW just wasnt worth the time/memory for me. But thats sparking a whole other debate.

I guess...i just dont see the use in RAW for action photography. And for a guy who dislikes the taste of the "Digital dark room" going through 300 (or whatever) raws is just not something i'd want to do...hmm, maybe i just need a faster computer :twisted:

I used to think that way, Timmy. I only used RAW in the pits/paddock and shot JPEG track side. During the course of this year, though, I have found myself moving to RAW exclusively for a whole raft of reasons.

Cadwell
20th of August 2004 (Fri), 00:49
I thought so too but I'm changing my tune now. My main concern was picture quality and noise levels due to the higher pixel density. But if it's true that the 20D has noise levels at ISO1600 similar to the 10D at ISO400 then, imho, that's enough to make me upgrade.

Not sure that's necessarily true... according to one test run by Michael Reichmann

very small pixels lead to quite high noise levels, especially at ISOs above the chip's native level. But progress is constantly being made, and my bench tests show that the 20D has essentially identical noise to that of the 10D at all common ISO settings. Canon has accomplished this by placing improved noise reduction circuitry right at the chip level

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/20d-part1.shtml

That's good, but it's not as good as is being claimed elsewhere...

drisley
20th of August 2004 (Fri), 00:51
I'm in too...looks like my 300D will be on the market 8) .
Anyone noticing a trend?
3 300D owners all very happy with this new camera.
When it came down to it the 10D just wasnt worth the extra $500. Now, that $500 is gonna go a long way.

I agree. For us 300D owners, the 20D will be a very worthy upgrade.
For 10D owners, it's sort of a toss up I think. I think the most attractive feature to a 10D owner is the apparently much more reliable autofocus.

As far as ISO noise is concerned, we canon DSLR owners have been spoiled. The ISO noise is already VERY good on the Canon DSLR's. MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better than film, and much better than the P&S digicams. Since the 20D doesnt increase noise, and apparently decreases noise by a little or alot depending on which review you read, there is not too much to worry about.

Vegas Poboy
20th of August 2004 (Fri), 06:18
As a 10D owner I agree there is not a whole lot to major upgrades to dump my 10d but in my world of being a semi pro I can't justify the $4500.00 for the Mark II yet. I also get tired of switching lenses on my camera when shooting events.
The reasons I look at the 20D is
1. bigger buffer for jpeg shooting (action sports is needed)
2. interchangable batteries
3. close to the same body style
4. FOCUS System
5. More frames per second
6. $3,000.00 savings under the Mark II

Ok I feel better know I can pass this by my wife and make a purchase :twisted:

This is the most expensive hobby I've ever picked up :?

Good luck to all & think about what may happen in February during the PPA. Maybe a 2ds :wink:

johnmate
20th of August 2004 (Fri), 06:25
As a 10D owner I agree there is not a whole lot to major upgrades to dump my 10d but in my world of being a semi pro I can't justify the $4500.00 for the Mark II yet. I also get tired of switching lenses on my camera when shooting events.
The reasons I look at the 20D is
1. bigger buffer for jpeg shooting (action sports is needed)
2. interchangable batteries
3. close to the same body style
4. FOCUS System
5. More frames per second
6. $3,000.00 savings under the Mark II



Those are almost the same reasons for me to think about a 20D. But I will first wait for the indepth reviews.

CoolToolGuy
20th of August 2004 (Fri), 06:29
As a 10D owner I agree there is not a whole lot to major upgrades to dump my 10d but in my world of being a semi pro I can't justify the $4500.00 for the Mark II yet. I also get tired of switching lenses on my camera when shooting events.
The reasons I look at the 20D is
1. bigger buffer for jpeg shooting (action sports is needed)
2. interchangable batteries
3. close to the same body style
4. FOCUS System
5. More frames per second
6. $3,000.00 savings under the Mark II

Ok I feel better know I can pass this by my wife and make a purchase :twisted:

This is the most expensive hobby I've ever picked up :?

Good luck to all & think about what may happen in February during the PPA. Maybe a 2ds :wink:

Hang in there until Photokina in early October.

Have Fun,

cmM
20th of August 2004 (Fri), 07:46
I'm actually not surprised it's not 1.3x, more features and around 2500-3000.
If canon would have done that, no one would buy the 1DmkII anymore. They kept the features to a low because they wanted cheap production costs so the price would not be too high.

So far it seems pretty good. In the past, people compared the 300d with the 10d a lot, almost all the time suggesting the 10D as the better camera. Well the 20D is better than the 10D, and is about the same price (release price).

...I wonder what Nikon's gonna come up with as an answer to Canon's brand new AF system, ETTL II, the on-board noise reduction and the DIGIc II technology. Personally, I think they're scratching their heads right now. In digital bodies, CANON is the king.

DocFrankenstein
20th of August 2004 (Fri), 11:27
I think they are gonna release 30D soon... No sense getting the 20D now. :lol: