**OFFICIAL** 20D Info and question thread! [Archive] - Canon Digital Photography Forums

CyberDyneSystems

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 09:05

WARNING
Errant 20D threads run the risk of being locked!!!!
really guys.. do we need twenty two 20D threads going at once?? :lol: :wink:

I'm going to try and do a little consolidation here (as usual :roll: )

We will try and provide a single thread to answer as many questions re: 20D info as possible.

Let's post all reviews info and QUESTIONS in this thread as we find them/think of them.

CANON USA Press Release (http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20040819_eos_20d.html)

THREE NEW EF-S Lenses (http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20040819_efs_lenses.html)

NEW 580EX FLASH (http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20040819_580ex.html)

CANON JAPAN OFFICIAL 20D PAGE (http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos20d/) (complete with "odd" english translation :) )

SOME REVIEWS:

ROB GALBRAITH REVIEW (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6458-7153)

THE LUMINOUS LANSCAPE REVIEW (PART1) (http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/20d-part1.shtml)

DP REVIEW (Preview) (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/)

CyberDyneSystems

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 09:11

DISCUSSIONS ON THIS FORUM

Some of the concerns of Canon 20D (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40447&highlight=)

Should we all REALLY be excited about the 20D? (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40470)

20D ONLY HAS 6 FRAME BUFFER (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40449)

-POLL- How many have ordered 20D Allready? (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40492)

20D Specs and Price (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40351)

CoolToolGuy

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 11:36

The Canon USA site has been updated for the 20D:
http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=111

There seems to be more detail there than the press release from yesterday. If you're really into it, you might be able to verify the specs against the (p)reviews - I can't absorb that much today.

Neither the lenses nor the 580EX are out there at 1:30 PM Eastern (USA)on Friday. For those that might be interested, the Rebel Ti (film) has been replaced by the Rebel T2. It has some of the improvements that the 20D has. It is not on the Web site yet, either.

The G6 is on the Powershot page, but not the A95 or the S70.

Perhaps they will update them this weekend. There is something 'magical' about August 23 - none of the reviewers can post sample images until then.

Have Fun,

CyberDyneSystems

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 14:18

Here's a question...

So soon after the release fo the MkII.. why hasn't Canon continued with the SD Card support?

Not that I ever really cared much either way.. but the indicator with the inclusion on the MkII was a possible trend towards adoption of the SD card.. seems Canon should have continued this if they take it as a serious step.

blinking8s

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 14:36

i just want to know when it is going to be in stores, and how backordered it will be if at all...so i can set a target date to know how long i am going to have to live without a camera

300d goes up onto ebay in a few days :roll: i might slit my wrists without a camera for too long

i called http://www.thompsonphoto.com who is a HUGE store in Knoxville TN, they seemed pretty damn up to date...Canon had not given him any news on when the camera would be shipped and the press release was not intended to be sent out this early...he has no idea when it will be shipped out and is just waiting for the word

Andy_T

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 16:08

Here's a question...

So soon after the release fo the MkII.. why hasn't Canon continued with the SD Card support?

Most likely it was tougher to get that covered by a 1500$ retail price as opposed to 4500$ ... it's 'nice to have', but not 'need to have'

I like the option of using regular AA batteries in the new battery grip.

I also notice that 6x 1.2V (rechargeable batteries) comes pretty close to 7.4 V.

Best regards,
Andy

Tom W

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 16:15

here's a couple more:

Imaging Resource:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E20D/E20DA.HTM

Steve's Digicams:
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/20d.html

DC Resource:
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/eos_20d-review/index.shtml

(with thanks to Martin at DPR).

Sendide

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 16:40

CyberDyneSystems

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 16:44

This is a very good question to which I have not seen published answers yet?

The 10D info was not "readily visible" either.. as I recall we got the spec from Chuck Westfall of Canon (unlike the MkII which advetised it's claims proudly)

It would be nice to assume that the 20D increases it's life expectancy as past models have.. especially given that 5fps burst rate!

blinking8s

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 16:52

maybe sub forums here, so various discussions can go on...or does phpbb not have that option? i thought v2 did at least

Andy_T

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 17:26

Sendide

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 18:27

as 10D owner, I hope it's same shutter in the 20D, my reason is that the latest they will produce the same, the better our chances (10D owners who stick to their baby camera) are to get it still replaced at canon Inc when it dies. I had some experience with car parts that I do not want to re-live with camera gear.
regards
(Not selfish here, jsut frank opinion) :oops:
Khalid

angst911

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 19:06

any indications of the prices for the new EF-S lenses? That 10-22mm one really catches my eye

CoolToolGuy

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 19:29

any indications of the prices for the new EF-S lenses? That 10-22mm one really catches my eye

10-22 - $800 USD
17-85 IS - $600
18-55 - $170

Have Fun,

blinking8s

20th of August 2004 (Fri), 20:10

i have a friend that took like 30,000 photos with his 10d then the iso went all screwy and was stuck on 1600 or something, he just got it back from canon and says its still a little funky

Jesper

21st of August 2004 (Sat), 01:34

everyone looks at what bothers him the most when it comes to chaging /upgrading camera gears, well I always thought that the sutter in 10D has a very short life (if what I heard is true :about 20 000) so..
any information on how many shots is the 20D "supposed'' to take before the shutter dies? any comparison/improvment to 10D ?
just wondering
regards
Khalid

I don't know what the life expectancy of the shutter on the 10D is officially, but I've heard higher numbers than 20,000. I think it is 50,000.

From Canon's 20D website (http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos20d/index.html):

"Even basic features are highly refined. The new shutter, for example, offers a maximum speed of 1/8000 sec. and is more durable."

From Rob Galbraith's pages (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6458-7153-7154):

"A newly-developed shutter and mirror mechanism enable a 65ms shutter lag (we measured 71ms with a preproduction EOS 20D) and 115ms mirror blackout time. The improved performance is easy to hear, since the mechanical components of the new camera are noticeably noisier than the 10D too. Canon has not released a shutter duty cycle specification for the 20D, except to say that it offers double the reliability of the 10D's shutter."

I don't think you need to worry about the shutter life expectancy for either the 20D or the 10D!

RDKirk

21st of August 2004 (Sat), 08:36

Canon's press release on the 20D throws the word "professional" a lot--something they didn't do with the 10D. I thought was interesting the way they began, descibing the 20D as a camera for the "professionals who purchase their own equipment."

For one thing, it says something about their pricing logic for the 1D (it's for people who have someone else footing the bills). But it also indicates that Canon intends the 20D to be the "3D" so many people have wanted.

I wanted a camera that addressed reliability issues, and this camera does address the issues that were on the top of my list: more accurate focusing, more reliable shutter, 250v flash sync, and an AA cell capable battery grip. The image quality upgrade is gravy for me.

CyberDyneSystems

21st of August 2004 (Sat), 10:52

I agree RD,.. the 20D is indeed the "EOS-3 Digital" so many have wanted.

Tom W

21st of August 2004 (Sat), 12:43

I agree RD,.. the 20D is indeed the "EOS-3 Digital" so many have wanted.

It may be the "EOS-3 Digital" that some wanted, but it isn't the EOS-3 Digital that everyone wanted. I'd still put it in the "Elan" class myself. As nice as it is (or should be, pending some testing), the 20D isn't enough to pry me from the 10D.

c0ntr0lz

21st of August 2004 (Sat), 21:00

i think i might be jumping clubs soon
i really like the sound of this new camera
i might get this as a xmas gift

:D

RDKirk

21st of August 2004 (Sat), 22:35

>>Not that I ever really cared much either way.. but the indicator with the inclusion on the MkII was a possible trend towards adoption of the SD card.. seems Canon should have continued this if they take it as a serious step.<<

I predicted it would, but I was wrong on that one. I thought it was a trend myself.

blinking8s

21st of August 2004 (Sat), 22:37

its an evil plot to get the serious drebel users to upgrade.

roanjohn

22nd of August 2004 (Sun), 15:58

"....In fact, images taken at ISO 1600 are approximately equal in noise to those taken with the EOS 10D model at ISO 400....."

From the Canon Press Release.

Ro1

Andy_T

23rd of August 2004 (Mon), 02:40

According to this part of the DPReview mini test (yes, it's Monday :lol: ), the ISO noise of the 20D at 1600 is comparable to that of the 10D at 800.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/page14.asp

Not quite as good as the claim, but still great news (for the prospective 20D buyer).

The test shots on DPReview look pretty good in the versions resized for the web (that's clear), even those with the 18-55. Unfortunately, the large files can't be loaded, as their website most likely is under attack now from picture-hungry Canon fans all over the world :lol:

Edit: The Luminous landscape review is now online, as well.
Their bottom line is that the camera has the same ISO noise than the 10D. Unfortunately, their test shot also cna not be accessed.

Best regards,
Andy

iwatkins

23rd of August 2004 (Mon), 15:51

PacAce

23rd of August 2004 (Mon), 16:41

Don't know if it has been mentioned in all the threads that popped up.

Anyway, 20D has the USB 2.0 interface. So true teathered shooting (studio shots etc.) are a real possibility now.

In addition (of great interest to me) is the possibility of using the 20D as a very high quality remote webcam.

Cheers

Ian

Webcam? The 20D? I doubt that'll ever happen. Problem with the 20D (and every other DSLR) is that it doesn't have real time monitoring of its sensor like the P&S cameras do. Unless there's a feature in the 20D that I don't know about like a mirror lockup that activates the sensor for real-time captures. :D

iwatkins

23rd of August 2004 (Mon), 16:50

Webcam is the wrong word I guess.

One of the instruments used in my work is a 180 degree fish eye capture of the sky once every five minutes. It is used for remote observation of weather/cloud conditions. However, the quality of the actual image is fairly poor.

With a 20D with a good lens in the weather proof dome, you could easily update this frequency to once a minute (comms allowing) and get very high resolution shots that could be zoomed etc.

Of course, doing this would require a good business case as the 20D isn't exactly cheap, but there again, weather proof remote capture cameras/CCTV system etc. are not cheap either.

Cheers

Ian

photography By Evangelos

23rd of August 2004 (Mon), 18:11

B&H will still not take an order on the 20D they say the will start in 2 Weeks. Seems like this is a long time if the camera will ship in Sept. But I did get my 2 10D's really fast after I orderd them with in 9 Days. What type of ship time are you all being given the shops that are taking orders??

Angelo 8)

blinking8s

23rd of August 2004 (Mon), 21:00

overnight ups from b&h is hella fast!

Yan

24th of August 2004 (Tue), 00:24

Earliest "early Oct." by Henry's at Waterloo Canada.

cannot wait to jumpinto digital world (I am currently shooting film with 7NE)

Patrick 10D

24th of August 2004 (Tue), 03:21

I placed an "order" for the 20D yesterday. It should be here (Finland) by mid-October or so. 1599 EUR ($1970 USD) for the body. Works for me.

And I have a question: would it be safe to assume that the BG-E2 will also be available at the same time that the camera itself is selling?

photography By Evangelos

24th of August 2004 (Tue), 04:38

My Guess is the new grip will be ready when the camera ships. I my self can't use the cameara as it is too small for my hands so I need the grip.

Angelo 8)

gerolamo

24th of August 2004 (Tue), 23:08

OK, it's time for me to get a real DSLR.

I own a crappy Canon digital elphe that can't seem to be able to focus beyond 2 meters, and a 20 years old russian Zenit film camera that still is able to take amazing pictures, but is... welll... old. and film.

So I'm looking for an 8mp for large prints and pro quality. And a reasonable price.

For all the bashing 20D takes, basically for not being an MKII as most of the complainers expected, is there anything else announced that even comes close to it as price/specs? (I'm not talking price/quality yet for obvious reasons)

I will wait until december, but to be onest I doubt anyone else can produce something similar. And guess what I'll want for Christmas

gerolamo

24th of August 2004 (Tue), 23:13

Correction: I doubt anyone else can produce something similar to the 20D "In time for Christmas".

Nikon or Minolta or others will eventually catch up and build something similar, even better, but I don't want to wait much longer.

ron chappel

25th of August 2004 (Wed), 01:18

For all the bashing 20D takes, basically for not being an MKII as most of the complainers expected, is there anything else announced that even comes close to it as price/specs? (I'm not talking price/quality yet for obvious reasons)

I will wait until december, but to be onest I doubt anyone else can produce something similar. And guess what I'll want for Christmas

I haven't heard many complaints yet but if that's all they are whining about,let 'em pay 2 times (or is it 3 times??!) more for the mkII :lol:

Good thing you are waiting 'till december-the other brands may bring out something seriously good at PMA in a month

**One more thing**
If you want one for christmas,be sure to order well before!!!!! :shock:

Skyarrow1

26th of August 2004 (Thu), 05:01

Love the idea of the new lenses coming out, but with them just covering the new 300D and 20D, what about the rest of us you have other Canon cameras?

Skyarrow

alexd1983

26th of August 2004 (Thu), 07:56

its an evil plot to get the serious drebel users to upgrade.

Sold my rebel body and grip on ebay yesterday :lol: :lol: :lol:

timmyquest

26th of August 2004 (Thu), 08:44

angst911

26th of August 2004 (Thu), 17:14

any indications of the prices for the new EF-S lenses? That 10-22mm one really catches my eye

10-22 - $800 USD
17-85 IS - $600
18-55 - $170

Have Fun,

ouch, might as well add 400 dollars and a L to that....

Burninfilm2

27th of August 2004 (Fri), 08:28

For what it's worth, I have about 30,000 trouble-free snaps on a 10D, with no signs of letting up...The 20D sounds nice , especially the faster capture rate for sports. That puts it up there with my D1...Happy Shooting..Bob <><

tommykjensen

28th of August 2004 (Sat), 02:42

Not sure if this link has been posted but here are some more photos from 20D including some 1600 & 3200 ISO

http://www.mrx.no/terje.html

blinking8s

28th of August 2004 (Sat), 20:01

its an evil plot to get the serious drebel users to upgrade.

Sold my rebel body and grip on ebay yesterday :lol: :lol: :lol:

How much did you end up getting out of that combo??

(kit lens included?)

local camera store in knoxville tn said my camera body, grip and lens would trade in fair on a 20d for $500 depending on its condition which is in 100% working order and very very very slight wear and tear on the plastic body. IF i was to sell it, I would prob ask a fair bit more.

But I doubt I am going to sell till its not worth much. Having the camera is too valuable to me right now. I will wait till I have a 20d in my hand bought and paid for then prob sell my 300d for whatever i can get for the grip and body.

roanjohn

28th of August 2004 (Sat), 21:35

Not sure if this link has been posted but here are some more photos from 20D including some 1600 & 3200 ISO

http://www.mrx.no/terje.html

Very impressive!!!

Thanks for these.

Ro1

Andy_T

29th of August 2004 (Sun), 07:25

local camera store in knoxville tn said my camera body, grip and lens would trade in fair on a 20d for $500 depending on its condition which is in 100% working order and very very very slight wear and tear on the plastic body. IF i was to sell it, I would prob ask a fair bit more.

Sounds like a ripoff to me.

You'll do better on eBay. Maybe sell the grip separately.
Keep the lens, you might need it on the 20D.

Best regards,
Andy

In Hoc Up2 Eyeballs

1st of September 2004 (Wed), 15:37

Gotta peak at a 20D today with the 18-55 lens, didn't hold it long. Definately smaller than 10D. It is a nice looking camera. I thought the viewfinder was a little on the dark side compared to a 10D, but all my lenses are 2.8 or better. My point is if you buy one without examining it first be prepared. I'm offering an opinion because I know there is some controversy on this point and people are preordering already.

RDKirk

1st of September 2004 (Wed), 19:47

Well, my first 35mm was an East German Praktica with a plain non-Fresnel groundglass that looked like the bottom of a soda bottle.

timmyquest

1st of September 2004 (Wed), 21:04

Not sure if this link has been posted but here are some more photos from 20D including some 1600 & 3200 ISO

http://www.mrx.no/terje.html

Very impressive!!!

Thanks for these.

Ro1

Wow, very impressive indeed!

Anyone heard anything about autofocus speed

MediaMagic

1st of September 2004 (Wed), 21:41

Doesn't impress me. I'm still waiting for the pictures of rulers! :shock: :wink:

timmyquest

2nd of September 2004 (Thu), 07:16

Doesn't impress me. I'm still waiting for the pictures of rulers! :shock: :wink:

Lucky for me i dont spend my time taking pictures of rulers ;-)

photography By Evangelos

3rd of September 2004 (Fri), 06:54

I Want my 20D NOW!! :lol:

roanjohn

3rd of September 2004 (Fri), 08:38

I Want my 20D NOW!! :lol:

AMEN!!!

Ro1

photography By Evangelos

4th of September 2004 (Sat), 12:17

I agree with my self. WOW! :lol:

Hatem Eldoronki

8th of September 2004 (Wed), 18:16

...from Canon:
http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos20d/eos20d_sample-e.html

tommykjensen

15th of September 2004 (Wed), 13:21

20D user manual (http://www.canon.ca/product_reg.asp?lng=en&pid=299&pname=EOS+20D&pr=0& shlink=http%3A%2F%2Fcanoncanada%2Ecusthelp%2Ecom%2 Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fcanoncanada%2Ecfg%2Fphp%2Fenduser%2Fs td%5Falp%2Ephp%3Fp%5Fli%3D%26p%5Fpage%3D1%26p%5Fpr od%5Flvl1%3D13%26p%5Fprod%5Flvl2%3D271%26p%5Fcat%5 Flvl1%3D5%26p%5Fsearch%5Ftext%3D%26p%5Fnew%5Fsearc h%3D1%26p%5Fsearch%5Ftype%3Ddflt%26p%5Fsort%5Fby%3 Ddflt)

Vegas Poboy

15th of September 2004 (Wed), 18:48

Happy to pick mine up today local camera shop :D
Big test Thursday night for high school football game. I had to get it with th lens but oh well whats an extra $100.00 I'm going to make that up with sales over the weekend :wink:

scottbergerphoto

15th of September 2004 (Wed), 19:29

Is it just me or does the 20D seem to have slightly better image quality then the MKII????

8)
I thought you stopped smoking crack? :shock:
Scott

Scottes

15th of September 2004 (Wed), 19:34

OK, so my first image with the 10D is numbered xxx_0784.CR2

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

defordphoto

15th of September 2004 (Wed), 20:03

OK, so my first image with the 10D is numbered xxx_0784.CR2

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Weird. The 10D does not support .CR2 files.

Send your camera to Canon, QUICK!

MediaMagic

15th of September 2004 (Wed), 21:44

OK, so my first image with the 10D is numbered xxx_0784.CR2

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Isn't there something about certain CF cards changing the numbering system? I thinkI read something either here or on a site somewhere that with a new camera, a previously used CF card can change the numbering sequence. I may not be remembering anything close to what the post or article actually said though.

Scottes

15th of September 2004 (Wed), 21:47

Interesting. I did format the card. Oh, well. It can hardly be used.

MediaMagic

15th of September 2004 (Wed), 21:56

It does seem kinda strange otherwise. I can't see how it could be a return, perhaps the guys at the store played with it? Like you said, it can hardly be used.

So, how's the autofocus? Is it really a good improvement over the 10D?

Scottes

15th of September 2004 (Wed), 22:01

It really was too dark to make any kind of comparison. I was at ISO 400 and lucky to get 1/320. Most shots were at 1/200 or even lower. It wouldn't be a fair test.

I hope to get out this weekend and test on some gulls in flight. If I get the chance, I'll do so, and compare it against the 100-400 on the 10D.

CyberDyneSystems

15th of September 2004 (Wed), 22:24

timmyquest

15th of September 2004 (Wed), 22:29

No.. it's the CF

..if you formatted in the 20D (like I did) with a card that was in the 10D (like I did) then you will start with the numbering where the 10D left off..

It picks up the numbering from the CF card when you start the camera.. long before you get to format.. this is why when working with the 10D.. you don't go back to Zero every time you format.

Wonderfull aint it?

Does the 1D's numbering system use an "internal counter" to count the number of acutations? The number on the back of the camera does not change no matter which of the three cards i have in it. So i'm pretty sure this is this case.

Anyone know a way to reset the numbering?

I think by formating it in windows this will reset it...i think.

CyberDyneSystems

15th of September 2004 (Wed), 22:55

Nah.. it doesn't.. like the 1D and Rebel.. the amera itslef keeps a record internally.. trouble is I think only when you install a used card in a Camera set to ZERO.. like my new one and Scotte's too...

I read about this a bunch of times from 10D owners too...

This does not happen with 1Ds though.

aam1234

16th of September 2004 (Thu), 00:46

Anyone know a way to reset the numbering?

I read somewhere that if you format the card with the pc then format it in-camera, it will be reset.

CyberDyneSystems

16th of September 2004 (Thu), 10:17

Jon

16th of September 2004 (Thu), 13:56

It also turns out that the 20D can be set to number like the 1D.. it will reset the numbering after every 100 shots...

I'm think by turning this on.. and than going back (having formatted) it should reset too. I'll try it today and see.

Been away photographing (and playing) in the great Pacific Northwest.

Yes - set the camera to "Reset numbering", insert a card with the desired file number structure (\DCIM\100CANON\IMG_0001.JPG will make next picture #2), then reset it to continuous numbering. Reset numbering and inserting a blank card should also work.