I didnt realize how much a 1D could be had for

[timmyquest]

And it's making the 20D decision really tough.

I would imagine the image quality from the 20D would murder the 1d though, not so much because of the doubled pixles but also because of DigicII and ETTLII.

None the less, for a wana-be sports shooter...this is no easy choice.

8fps
1/500 sync
1/16,000 max speed
8fps 8) :lol:
45 point autofocus
1.3 sensor
weather sealing (correct???)

[BearSummer]

Hi Timmy,

Have a look at 1D from canon UK site (http://www.canon.co.uk/for_home/product_finder/cameras/digital_slr/eos_1d/index.asp)

It's the 8fps in a 21 frame burst that is really appealing

All the best

BearSummer

[roanjohn]

Its not the fps......as the 20D can do 5 fps at 23 frames. It's the AF that will really knock you out.

Ro1

[Andy_T]

So, how much is a used 1D at your place?

They was not one below $ 2000 over here (Europe), the last time I was looking.
And I am talking eBay here, not photography shop with warranty.

Best regards,
Andy

[timmyquest]

So, how much is a used 1D at your place?

They was not one below $ 2000 over here (Europe), the last time I was looking.
And I am talking eBay here, not photography shop with warranty.

Best regards,
Andy

Well there are only a few currently on ebay and the one i was looking at still had three days left, it was at $1100. It could very well rise another grand.

I really think for the range of photography i do that the 20D would be better. At a sporting event the 1D would most likely win hands down, but at a family party. The size of the 20D, and the image quality i'd get from it, simply would be better.

That and the one thing that really hinders the 1D today is it's noise. It's not even that there is a lot of it, it is that it is visible in most ISO ranges.

I think i'll get the 20D, then the 1dMKII...this would be far down the road.

The only reason i'm considering upgrading is because of the lack of features of the 300D. Buffer, write speed, FPS, AI/Servo

Granted the bufferspeed, write speed, and IQ of the 10D are the same as the 300D. Had i gotten the 10D, i most likely wouldnt even consider an upgrade.

As it sits though, i'm growing frustrated of my 300D. It was an awsome start to digital photography, but i am a person who teaches myself fast, deep down i knew this would happen, i just didnt think it would be 8 months :shock:

[CyberDyneSystems]

$2,000.00 for a 1D is a great price.. it's what I paid and sold mine for..

You'd also be amazed at the image quality you will get from those 4.5MP... it is a really amazing camera. Many 1D users insist that it's CCD sensor is the best that Canon has made.. referring it to the look of the CMOS sensors.

It's built in color matrix settings for shooting stright jpeg for instance gives "velvia" like jpegs that even the MkII can't match (color wise... not as far as detail obviously)

Plus... 1.3X crop factor means better wide angle.. and weather sealing...

And Timmy,.. don't forget the fastest AF on the planet up to f/8! (autofocus with teleconverters!)

[timmyquest]

$2,000.00 for a 1D is a great price.. it's what I paid and sold mine for..

You'd also be amazed at the image quality you will get from those 4.5MP... it is a really amazing camera. Many 1D users insist that it's CCD sensor is the best that Canon has made.. referring it to the look of the CMOS sensors.

It's built in color matrix settings for shooting stright jpeg for instance gives "velvia" like jpegs that even the MkII can't match (color wise... not as far as detail obviously)

Plus... 1.3X crop factor means better wide angle.. and weather sealing...

And Timmy,.. don't forget the fastest AF on the planet up to f/8! (autofocus with teleconverters!)

STOP IT STOP IT!

I dont even have the $1500 for the 20D

Your making me an evil junkie STOP NOW!

:lol:

[CyberDyneSystems]

Ahhh.. you post too fast :)

Your hooked boy! Face facts! 8) :wink:

Size is a BIG issue.. :)

When I got the MkII I had allways felt that I would sell the 10D, keep the 1D and MkII....

But once actually faced with the decision.. knowing that I would use the MkII for everything I would use the 1D for with the 1D only needed for a second body/backup.. it occured to me that I would essentually never use the 1D.

I kept the 10D instead and due to it's size.. I use it ALL the time still for anything that I don't want to drag the "battlewagon" MkII into. (like a christening last Sunday etc..)

[CyberDyneSystems]

:twisted: :twisted:

So the solution is simple..

You need both!!!!!!!


:twisted: :P

[timmyquest]

I'm not a little guy, i hand people my 300D/grip/70-200 f/2.8/550EX combo and they look at me like i'm nuts.

As if carrying that thing around is as bad as carrying a 20 pound barbell around. (Feels about the same)

The weight of the 20D isnt an issue, it's a bonus.

I really think the only thing that would convince me would be to handle one.

If i could musturd up 2000 without selling my 300D the choice would be obvious.

[Andy_T]

Well there are only a few currently on ebay and the one i was looking at still had three days left, it was at $1100. It could very well rise another grand.


It will. :roll:

What turns me towards the 20D is available light photography.
I think it does a lot better image quality wise than the (otherwise great) 1D at low light situations.

Best regards,
Andy

[CyberDyneSystems]

I'm not a little guy, ....the weight of the 20D isnt an issue, it's a bonus....



I meant that weight is an issue with the 1D and MkII.. the 20D would be lighter than even the 10D.. very portable.. the 1D's are not portable.. they are beasts! :shock:

I have no problem lugging an 8 pound 500mm mounted on a 6 pound tripod Via a 4 pound gimble mount head and whatever the MkII weighs.. when appropriate. But the size and weight of these big cameras is not appropriate for a some of the applications I come across.. a casual stroll through the city park for instance.. I much prefer the 10D (or a 300D or 20D) to a beastly 1D in that situation.

[timmyquest]

I guess i cant imagine that situation as i've never even held the camera. I do know that in the DPreviews of the 1d (or was it the d30) that the two cameras are compaired with the grip on the D30 and they are pretty much the same size (pretty much).

I cant imagine the weight being all that differnt.

My point is though, that weight is not an issue for me.

[RichardtheSane]

I
I cant imagine the weight being all that differnt.
.
In my (unfortunatly limited) experience, it is.

[Persian-Rice]

Timmy, I know people who have purchased the camera for 1600-1700.........
I tested one out a short while ago and they are very very good. Image quality and colours are brilliant and the AF speed is insane both better then the 10D as far as I have seen. Even at 4Mpix, I wont be surprised if you can make large prints with great detail.

Weight and size really depends on the photographer. A small "not so strong" person will probably have issues of working with a big camera like that over long periods. Yet a larger stronger person might actually find it more convenient. Having held both the 10d and 1d's, for me the 1d is a much nicer and comfortable fit based on the size of my hands. The 10D was good too, but I would definitely need a BG or I will end up feeling quite uncomfortable. For me the weight ads a some stability over the lighter camera that would be more susceptible to shake when in my hands.

Cheers.

[KennyG]

The 1D can do things that the 10D or 20D just can't. For one, you can use the images straight from the camera, as sharp as a tack, 90%+ in focus and you may never have to touch PS/CS again. The 1D CCD and AA filter are just something special and Canon have not made anything like it since.

The 1D is the camera that defined the sports and PJ standards for everyone else to try and emulate, and they have failed. It may go down as the classic DSLR and be revered in the same way some Leica models are. You may not need one, but you know you want one.

You would have to pry my 1D out of my cold dead hands (not an invitation).

[timmyquest]

perhaps i'll just play it by ear.

Everytime i see images from the 1D, they look, noisy, flat, and boring.

Prove me wrong.

[Jesper]

The 1D can do things that the 10D or 20D just can't. For one, you can use the images straight from the camera, as sharp as a tack, 90%+ in focus and you may never have to touch PS/CS again.

If your straight-from-the-camera images from your 10D aren't good enough, you haven't mastered your 10D yet, because it's certainly possible to get great images straight from the camera with the 10D. :roll:

[CyberDyneSystems]

Uhh Ohh!

Two busts on the 1D (or the user) in a row... this is serious stuff!

Let's not get nasty over this :)

[KennyG]

perhaps i'll just play it by ear.

Everytime i see images from the 1D, they look, noisy, flat, and boring.

Prove me wrong.

I could take that personally :cry:

[KennyG]

The 1D can do things that the 10D or 20D just can't. For one, you can use the images straight from the camera, as sharp as a tack, 90%+ in focus and you may never have to touch PS/CS again.

If your straight-from-the-camera images from your 10D aren't good enough, you haven't mastered your 10D yet, because it's certainly possible to get great images straight from the camera with the 10D. :roll:

Jesper, you obviously do not know my background. To say I have not mastered a 10D is quite insulting. I ran two of them from the day they shipped to the UK, so I think I know EXACTLY what I am talking about!

[timmyquest]

perhaps i'll just play it by ear.

Everytime i see images from the 1D, they look, noisy, flat, and boring.

Prove me wrong.

I could take that personally :cry:

No i'm asking you to show me some noiseless, robust looking colors.

I'm so drawn to the focusing speed and of course the 8fps. But i would hate to downgrade in image quality.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I have to take Kenny's side in this one.. as an owner of both.

To me the 1D was better than the 10D in EVRY way,.. including overall image quality...

I regret to say I have no 1D images "online" except this one?

http://cyberdynesystemsimaging.fotopic.net/p3313396.html

which is nothing to speak of...

[timmyquest]

Fine, sell me one!

I'm gonna just let my bank account grow, and when the time comes, the time comes.

Giving myself $200 spending cash every month that still would take me about 5 months to save up for 2 grand which would set me up with either camera.

I think of the times at football practice where i'm pounding on the sutter button but get nothing because it decides it cant focus on what i want it to. I picture that going away with a camera like the 1D. But i also wonder if it'll happen with the 20D.

Why cant man every be happy.

The only way to be happy is to not want...i always want bigger better and more.

:cry:

Poor american boy that i am :roll:

[sGu]

as a 10D user upgraded to 1D, i have to say that i haven't regreted a bit for my switch.

fine, 10D has 2mp more than 1D, not a problem, i can print images easily to A3 without losing a bit of quality, with more dynamic range. 1D's focus is sharp, fast, and accurate. I shot 561 photos during football game last weekend, and i have 474 keepers, which is really high considering it's fast action/sport, to me anyway.

about weather sealing, i covered a youth football tournament in early August, 2 days out of 5, it was heavy raining, first day i didn't have any protection, and my 1D+70-200mm worked like a tank in such a wet condition, while my heart was bleeding. I was so worried that it might cause problem, no, none whatsoever, 1D just refuse not to work.

TQ, if you go to my site, i have shots taken on both 10D and 1D. With 10D, if i shoot raw, i can't use standard sharpening, i usually need to increase sharpening level, in JPEG, i have to use USM in photoshop; but on 1D, i always use standard sharpening in RAW conversion, and no sharpening at all when i shoot JPEG, i mean it, NO sharpening in photoshop, photos out of CF card is tack sharp.

1D also has spot metering mode, which i absolutely love it, it handles difficult lighting situation very well, with 10D i usually have to a lot of post processing to make it right. Fine, it might be solved in 20D, but until i actually try out, i wouldn't choose 20D over 1D. It could be a perfect backup camera. If you wanna be a sports shooter, 1D/1D MK II is the way to go.

[JX]

CyberDyneSystems said:
You'd also be amazed at the image quality you will get from those 4.5MP... it is a really amazing camera. Many 1D users insist that it's CCD sensor is the best that Canon has made.. referring it to the look of the CMOS sensors.

It's built in color matrix settings for shooting stright jpeg for instance gives "velvia" like jpegs that even the MkII can't match (color wise... not as far as detail obviously)



CyberDyneSystems since you owned a 1d, and now own a Mark II. Do you think the 1D color saturation is superior? Also, how would you compare the raw files when processed with Photshop?

Thanks

[eric1]

perhaps i'll just play it by ear.

Everytime i see images from the 1D, they look, noisy, flat, and boring.

Prove me wrong.

I could take that personally :cry:

i don't think TQ's remark was aimed at you Kenny. your shots are anything but noisey, flat, and boring. first rate all the way, if you ask me.

[Mitchkitter]

you could always whore yourself out timmy!

[roanjohn]

Timmy - it seems as if you shoot a lot of sports. A 1D will probably benefit you more than the 20D. I've never heard of anybody who regretted purchasing a 1 series body to go back to the D series. Just my opinion.

...........so save an extra 500 USD and grab a used one.

Ro1

[CyberDyneSystems]

CyberDyneSystems since you owned a 1d, and now own a Mark II. Do you think the 1D color saturation is superior? Also, how would you compare the raw files when processed with Photshop?

Thanks

The color thing is a reference to the jpeg output straight out of the camera.. the 1D images when set to color matrix 3 had a velvia-esque pop to them that even the MkII does not do quite the same.

No, my point was that the 1D jpegs were in my humble opinion better than the 10D jpegs straight out of camera.

I would not say that 1D jpegs are better than the MkII's.. but for anyone wishing to rely 100% on the in camera processing.. at the time, (prior to the MkII) the 1D was the best complete finished jpeg any Canon DSLR could provide.



With the MkII however you still have all those options in camera so it stacks up quite nicely.. and does so at double the resolution, so the MkII wins hands down.

As far as RAW files.. the differences and benifits of each camera would make such a decision much more difficult.. 10D RAW files being my most familiar files to work with I feel I can get a better image out of a 10D RAW than a 1D raw.. but this is more personal than anything. And of course the MkII RAW files is better still.

[timmyquest]

This is such an interesting thread.

If you were to ask me as it sits right now i would tell you that i'd keep my 300D and save for a 1D. But i'm so indecisive that this could change in the next 10 hours :roll: This isnt a bad thing though, as it will be at least 3-4 months before i can afford either.

[eric1]

This is such an interesting thread.

If you were to ask me as it sits right now i would tell you that i'd keep my 300D and save for a 1D. But i'm so indecisive that this could change in the next 10 hours :roll: This isnt a bad thing though, as it will be at least 3-4 months before i can afford either.

i 'll tell you what you should do. meet me half way, say Peoria, we'll knock over a few liquor stores, and buy us some markII's. :lol: :lol:

[timmyquest]

Ok, how about after the cubs beat the cards in the NLCS

[daaaveman]

Timmy, You must learn to accept the reality of a given situation.......Nobody is going to beat the Cards.....least of all the Cubs!!!

[photomd]

I just went through this dilema, and made the leap to a 1D. I just got it last night so I'm very limited in what I can do, but just messing around, I enlarged a picture to 34 inch width on my computer with no pixelation. At 68 inches it was starting to break down. This is a straight jpeg with no post shot processing. Focusing is as fast or faster than my EOS 3 and the weather seals are a plus. I shoot vintage racing in all kinds of conditions. Now I just got learn all the in camera processing and settings. I'm not sure a 20D would put up with the dust & rain this camera will see and I'm in hopes I can get 3-5 years of good use outta this one. Good luck with your discision. 8)

[Andy_T]

perhaps i'll just play it by ear.

Everytime i see images from the 1D, they look, noisy, flat, and boring.

Prove me wrong.

I could take that personally :cry:

No i'm asking you to show me some noiseless, robust looking colors.

I'm so drawn to the focusing speed and of course the 8fps. But i would hate to downgrade in image quality.

Timmy (and all others who keep bashing the 1D),

why don't you just take a look at this thread:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30800

and then maybe reconsider how other people could perceive some of the words you post. :cry:

We're all friends here with a common interest in photography.

Best regards,
Andy

[timmyquest]

N ONO NO, not bash.

It's pretty safe i've made my decision, now i need to save. ANd save a lot, because if i get a camera like the 1D i will not want to get rid of my 300D.

And because this isnt an EF-S mount, now i'll need to get a wide angle lens...it's a must 8)

[motophoto]

Lets not forget the Crop factor!!!

If you like the idea of shooting W - I - D - E then the 1.3 of the 1D will smoke the 1.6 anyday.

[timmyquest]

Lets not forget the Crop factor!!!

If you like the idea of shooting W - I - D - E then the 1.3 of the 1D will smoke the 1.6 anyday.

Obviously, however to be honest, the 1.6 crop factor makes my 70-200 f/2.8 a much more respectable football lens.

[sGu]

the 1.6 crop factor makes my 70-200 f/2.8 a much more respectable football lens.

in terms of reach, yes, but it terms focus speed, you haven't seen anything what 70-200mm f2.8 is capable of yet, especially in football.

[eric1]

Ok, how about after the cubs beat the cards in the NLCS

:lol: :lol: that would be fine, as long as i get a MkII.