A little pre Basketball Season

[EnronRocks]

So this is a little pre-game "warm up" the local basketball team has, Junior Varsity against Varsity. So, I snapped a few shots.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/68Whiskey/Winter%20Meet%20the%20Teams/IMG_00012.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/68Whiskey/Winter%20Meet%20the%20Teams/IMG_00052.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/68Whiskey/Winter%20Meet%20the%20Teams/IMG_00272.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/68Whiskey/Winter%20Meet%20the%20Teams/IMG_00282.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/68Whiskey/Winter%20Meet%20the%20Teams/IMG_00422.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/68Whiskey/Winter%20Meet%20the%20Teams/IMG_00722.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/68Whiskey/Winter%20Meet%20the%20Teams/IMG_00932.jpg

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/68Whiskey/Winter%20Meet%20the%20Teams/IMG_00982.jpg

[Mike R]

I like all except for the lighting in the last one. What lens did you use?

[trj911]

Nice work. Were you using the 702-200 2.8? If so, how do you like it for bball?

[EnronRocks]

I am using my Canon 70-200 2.8L. The problem with the gym I was shooting in was that the light was horrid to start off with and some of the lights themselves stopped working during the game. The bulbs went out or something. Over Christmas break they are having a crew come in and replace all the lights with new fixtures. Which helps me out a lot.

[digitalphz]

Great shots...i have been shooting outdoor sports and have been asked to start shooting basketball. Can you help me with some settings? I played with various settings at a football game late yesterday afternoon, but the lighting in a gym is going to be very different. I have a Canon 30d and a Rebel xT with an assortment of lenses...I am a little freaked because the first game is this coming Monday, the 19th. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

phz

[EnronRocks]

I have my camera set on AV with 1600 ISO and Auto White Balance.

[alteredimensions]

I shot a few of my sisters games today, 3rd grade so nothing too terribly important, and was shooting with a 20D+70-200 f2.8. Love this lens for sports! I was shooting in full manual and ISO800 using a flash, the gym was fairly dark, and using -2/3 flash compensation. I am going to take the plunge and buy noise ninja, due to the excessive amounts of noise the 20D makes at anything over ISO800.

[Mike R]

I shot a few of my sisters games today, 3rd grade so nothing too terribly important, and was shooting with a 20D+70-200 f2.8. Love this lens for sports! I was shooting in full manual and ISO800 using a flash, the gym was fairly dark, and using -2/3 flash compensation. I am going to take the plunge and buy noise ninja, due to the excessive amounts of noise the 20D makes at anything over ISO800.

They are to your sister and parents.

It's a great sports lens. I would be lsot without mine and a 1.4TC for daytime outdoor sports.

[namasste]

I shot a few of my sisters games today, 3rd grade so nothing too terribly important, and was shooting with a 20D+70-200 f2.8. Love this lens for sports! I was shooting in full manual and ISO800 using a flash, the gym was fairly dark, and using -2/3 flash compensation. I am going to take the plunge and buy noise ninja, due to the excessive amounts of noise the 20D makes at anything over ISO800.

don't ask why I'm up at this hour but I wanted to say that you won't regret getting NN. Here's a few using a 30D and 70-200 f2.8 I have to be honest and say I don't get why folks shoot AV mode for indoor prep sports. Rarely is the lighting good enough that you are battling anything but getting the fastest ss at whatever ISO and ap you max out at. At least that's been my experience. If you like the flashed look or use strobes, it's a whole different game but for me I don't so it's 3200ISO and wide open at 2.8. I managed decent speeds today (around 1/500) and here's how a few turned out with just some modest NN added:

Girls Rec Hoops:
http://www.sephotos.net/img/v2/p849925859-4.jpg

7th Grade Boys (different gym, also missing lights in spots)
http://www.sephotos.net/img/v2/p427224846-4.jpg

Finally, Varsity Football, outdoors Ninja'ing...
http://www.sephotos.net/img/v2/p445945413-4.jpg

and tight
http://www.sephotos.net/img/v2/p427697426-4.jpg

sorry for the thread hijacking but it seemed relevant to post the shots of what Noise Ninja can do for your sports shots when lighting is weak. Don't be afraid to jack the ISO and get a few more clicks of shutter speed. NN in post workflow really makes them usable. The only caution I'd give is to not go overboard with it. It's easy to get really creamy images with little detail left. Hijack over, good luck to all of ya shooting lower level indoor sports this winter, it's sure not easy, but still very rewarding when parents get all sappy....

[EnronRocks]

I just bought a copy of noise ninja.....

[namasste]

I just bought a copy of noise ninja.....

lol, after reading my reply or you were one mouse click away already? either way, you'll love what it can do for your high ISO shots and feeling comfortable shooting 3200 is awesome since it affords you a lot more flexibility in ss.

[EnronRocks]

lol, after reading my reply or you were one mouse click away already? either way, you'll love what it can do for your high ISO shots and feeling comfortable shooting 3200 is awesome since it affords you a lot more flexibility in ss.

I like it, I got the bundle and have already used it on a few images. Its pretty hardcore.

[montanafan]

Nice job, EnronRocks. I haven't tried Noise Ninja, but I'm sure it'll come in very handy during basketball season. I use Neat Image and love it for my ISO 1600 shots.

[EnronRocks]

Well, I plan on upgrading to a 30D within the next few months, maybe even a 40D. So, I will get clearer pictures (hopefully) at 1600 ISO. I know a fellow photographer who hardly ever uses 3200 ISO at local sports events around here just because the lighting isn't incredibly horrible. That gym has the worst lights in our area. They are getting replaced too. Most football fields have amazing lights, so thats not a problem either. As for baseball, this area THRIVES on baseball, so they have magnificent lights. I don't see myself using 3200 ISO anytime soon if I get it.

[RonnieA]

f/2.8 isn't fast enough to cover indoor high school sports in my neck of the hardwoods. That's why I purchased the 50 1.8 ($70) and 85 1.8 ($350).

Noise Ninja is great, but use it judiciously, or else you'll get the plastic look.

Enron, try shooting full manual next time out instead of aperture priority. This will give you a consistent shutter speed. In the pic of the guy at the free throw line, the shutter speed was 1/125.

[digitalphz]

thanks for your help...i am going to try it at a hockey game in a little while...will let you know how it works. i love the 30d...just bought it in july and i am still learning how to use all of its capabilities...check out www.digitalphz.com its my web site. thanks again!

[alteredimensions]

They are to your sister and parents.

It's a great sports lens. I would be lsot without mine and a 1.4TC for daytime outdoor sports.Indeed, my parents loved most of the ones that I got!! Here are a few of the ones I thought to be better. This was actually my first basketball game to shoot, so I was having trouble getting my flash exposure right, I was using 1/250 SS, was that too low still? It looked like to me that I should have gone a little higher still.


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c91/alteredimensions/IMG_8964.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c91/alteredimensions/IMG_8940.jpg

[Mike R]

Indeed, my parents loved most of the ones that I got!! Here are a few of the ones I thought to be better. This was actually my first basketball game to shoot, so I was having trouble getting my flash exposure right, I was using 1/250 SS, was that too low still? It looked like to me that I should have gone a little higher still.




I usually shoot at 1/400 for sports.

[alteredimensions]

Okay, I will keep that in mind next game! Thanks:) Do you use flash? no flash? the lighting in this gym is pretty bad. I'm still trying to learn all of the modes and functions on my flash.

[Mike R]

I used flash when shooting volleyball but since I will be closer to the action for basketball, I will not use it. I'm shooting in a new gym and will shoot in M
f/2.0, 1/400 and will adjust my ISO accordingly. A lot of teams will not allow flash. It's best to ask in advance.

[EnronRocks]

I do not to use flashes in Gyms or when people are playing any sport. I remember when I was kid, that flashes from peoples cameras used to piss me off. So I keep the mindset that there is someone else in the world who feels the same way I do.

[Mike R]

I do not to use flashes in Gyms or when people are playing any sport. I remember when I was kid, that flashes from peoples cameras used to piss me off. So I keep the mindset that there is someone else in the world who feels the same way I do.

Good thinking. I was so non-athletic growing up, couldn't even throw a ball straight,or come close to the backboard in BB. So now I shoot athletes

[alteredimensions]

Good thinking. I was so non-athletic growing up, couldn't even throw a ball straight,or come close to the backboard in BB. So now I shoot athletes
Indeed good thinking. I had not thought of this. Luckily, I'm getting myself a 40D next week so those high ISO's wont be a problem anymore.;)

[Mr B Pix]

I downloaded NN this weekend and played with the demo a bit. And yes, without a doubt, if you overdo it the picture will look very "plastic". But I do think that once I get a better handle on it, I think it will be a great addition to my workflow.

Help me a bit with the work flow...
When I am indoors (or soccer at dusk) I am obviously shooting high ISO. With these tough lighting conditions I am now shooting in RAW. For now, I am using DPP (looking into Lightroom). Where does NN fit in? Should I use DPP (or LR) for RAW conversion and use NN last on a JPG (or TIFF) file? If a TIFF file, should I then create the JPG after NN? Seems like a lot of steps. I'd like to stay away from PS as I've already spent enough on glass!

I am shooting an XTi with some good glass (85f1.8 for indoors). So any help with that ISO 1600 noise would be great!

[alteredimensions]

I downloaded NN this weekend and played with the demo a bit. And yes, without a doubt, if you overdo it the picture will look very "plastic". But I do think that once I get a better handle on it, I think it will be a great addition to my workflow.

Help me a bit with the work flow...
When I am indoors (or soccer at dusk) I am obviously shooting high ISO. With these tough lighting conditions I am now shooting in RAW. For now, I am using DPP (looking into Lightroom). Where does NN fit in? Should I use DPP (or LR) for RAW conversion and use NN last on a JPG (or TIFF) file? If a TIFF file, should I then create the JPG after NN? Seems like a lot of steps. I'd like to stay away from PS as I've already spent enough on glass!

I am shooting an XTi with some good glass (85f1.8 for indoors). So any help with that ISO 1600 noise would be great!I use Lightroom and have loved it very much!! I was shooting at ISO 800 and lightroom is taking most of the noise at 800 out, surprisingly.

[MrV]

This is what I use to shoot basketball. One B800 at full power at 45 degrees pointing the ceiling. Canon 20D with a Canon 70-200 F2.8 IS with ISO 800, Shutter at 250 and Fstop at F2.8 and two PW PLuss II. One for camera one for the strobe.

I thinking I should try a second B800 this year and see what I get :)

This is the setup I used
1 - YOu can see the B800 at the left of this pic
http://www.iusdsports.com/images/MG_0160AB.jpg
2 - YOu ca nsee exactly where I place the B800 and I do bounce the light to get the soft look
http://www.iusdsports.com/images/MG_0163AB.jpg

Here are the results I got using the setup
3
http://www.iusdsports.com/images/MG_9594.jpg
4
http://www.iusdsports.com/images/MG_9626.jpg
5
http://www.iusdsports.com/images/MG_9630.jpg
6
http://www.iusdsports.com/images/MG_9683.jpg

Turned Pic #6 to a Fake Sports Illustrated Cover
http://www.iusdsports.com/IHS_SIweb.jpg

Boys game same gym but different day but same setup
7
http://www.iusdsports.com/images/IHSvsRHS/_MG_9949.jpg
8
http://www.iusdsports.com/images/IHSvsRHS/_MG_9980.jpg
9
http://www.iusdsports.com/images/IHSvsRHS/_MG_0030.jpg

Another School with same setup
10
http://www.iusdsports.com/images/MG_9763.jpg
11
http://www.iusdsports.com/images/MG_9808.jpg
12
http://www.iusdsports.com/images/MG_9844.jpg

I ope this helps

--MrV

[alteredimensions]

So if you setup two of those, one on each end of the court, some very nice images could be achieved I would imagine! those that you took look very nice. The lighting is nice and even on the players.

[dschach]

You pictures look great with the strobe. How much court coverage do you get with the single b800? From the first shot, it looks like 1/4 or a little less of the court is lit up. Is that about right?

[MrV]

So if you setup two of those, one on each end of the court, some very nice images could be achieved I would imagine! those that you took look very nice. The lighting is nice and even on the players.

I actually want to try two AB800 this year, but not opposite baskets but two on same basket. One on the left and on the right of the basket. I'm expecting to get excellent lighting with two of them.

The reason why I say this is..... if you look at the exif file on the first pic you'll see that I shot these are ISO 400. :)

So with two AB800 I should be able to get ISO 100-200 which would be GREAT!! hmm no I'm not Tony the Tiger :P

--MrV

[MrV]

You pictures look great with the strobe. How much court coverage do you get with the single b800? From the first shot, it looks like 1/4 or a little less of the court is lit up. Is that about right?

Thanks for the compliments! much appreciated.

As far as coverage I can pretty much cover the whole court with just one AB800 really. I just have to switch the ISO from 400 to 800 to shoot across the court on the opposite basket. I can also shoot people on the stands (left and right sides) with real good results but only the side where the strobe is.

I hope this information helps you.

--MrV

[alteredimensions]

Thanks for the compliments! much appreciated.

As far as coverage I can pretty much cover the whole court with just one AB800 really. I just have to switch the ISO from 400 to 800 to shoot across the court on the opposite basket. I can also shoot people on the stands (left and right sides) with real good results but only the side where the strobe is.

I hope this information helps you.

--MrVHow much does a strobe like that run? I've been contemplating getting one. Might be worth it for better shots indoors!

[Sauk]

Thanks for the compliments! much appreciated.

As far as coverage I can pretty much cover the whole court with just one AB800 really. I just have to switch the ISO from 400 to 800 to shoot across the court on the opposite basket. I can also shoot people on the stands (left and right sides) with real good results but only the side where the strobe is.

I hope this information helps you.

--MrV

Did you ask permission from the school to set those up? In the gym I shoot there is an upper area where I could place one on each side pointing down to the court or to the ceiling.

Do you think a coach would have issues with that?

[MrV]

How much does a strobe like that run? I've been contemplating getting one. Might be worth it for better shots indoors!

This is where I purchase mine.

http://www.alienbees.com/b800.html
http://www.alienbees.com/beginner.html

This package comes with 10' stand I'm using the 13" heavy duty stand.

Happy shooting! :)

--MrV

[MrV]

Did you ask permission from the school to set those up? In the gym I shoot there is an upper area where I could place one on each side pointing down to the court or to the ceiling.

Do you think a coach would have issues with that?

I work for the school district and everyone knows me, from the coaches, principals, players and parents of the players too.

Maybe a coach from the visiting team may have issues, if they complain nothing you could do really but stop using it. I only had one time when that happened. Coach, parents and principal wanted me to use the strobe.. Visiting coach complain...referee, principal, coaches and I had a meeting just before the games started, since it was a play off game I decided not to make a big deal.

I later call CIF and found out that they have no regulations on using strobes in games.

If you do not work for the school district I suggest you get One Million dollar insurance just in case. Since I work for the district I was covered, even my equipment. :)

Wish you the best

--MrV

[alteredimensions]

This is where I purchase mine.

http://www.alienbees.com/b800.html
http://www.alienbees.com/beginner.html

This package comes with 10' stand I'm using the 13" heavy duty stand.

Happy shooting! :)

--MrV
Thanks for those links!! I will probably be picking one of these up very soon!;)

[EnronRocks]

Thanks for those links!! I will probably be picking one of these up very soon!;)

As will I.

[dschach]

This is where I purchase mine.

http://www.alienbees.com/b800.html
http://www.alienbees.com/beginner.html

This package comes with 10' stand I'm using the 13" heavy duty stand.

Happy shooting! :)

--MrV

Is there a reason why you use the 13' stand instead of the 10'. From the photos of the setup, you are bouncing the light off the ceiling.
Thanks
David

[alteredimensions]

Is there a reason why you use the 13' stand instead of the 10'. From the photos of the setup, you are bouncing the light off the ceiling.
Thanks
David
He mentioned the 13' stand being a "heavy duty" stand. That could be why. I will be going with the 10' stands and two B800's.

[namasste]

Thanks for the compliments! much appreciated.

As far as coverage I can pretty much cover the whole court with just one AB800 really. I just have to switch the ISO from 400 to 800 to shoot across the court on the opposite basket. I can also shoot people on the stands (left and right sides) with real good results but only the side where the strobe is.

I hope this information helps you.

--MrV

MrV, one more question on these. Are you still held to the max ss of 250 based on sync rate like most flash? Basically, can I shoot 5fps at 1/800 using a B800 remotely? I can handle the noise from my 30D at high ISO so to me, the real benefit of the strobe is to achieve higher ss to freeze action.

[alteredimensions]

I would like to think that if you were using two of the B800's, one on each side of the court, that you should be able to achieve a higher ss. Someone correct me if i am wrong.

[Croasdail]

MrV, one more question on these. Are you still held to the max ss of 250 based on sync rate like most flash? Basically, can I shoot 5fps at 1/800 using a B800 remotely? I can handle the noise from my 30D at high ISO so to me, the real benefit of the strobe is to achieve higher ss to freeze action.
__________________

Using strobes does not enable you to shoot higher shutter speeds. You still need to use your camera sync speed. It is the duration of the flash that is actually freezing the action. Depending on the strobes being used they give you the same effect as shooting between 1/800 up to 1/2500.... depending on how fast the strobe discharges.

[MrV]

My apologies to everyone. I got busy and forgot to check this thread.

Thanks for those links!! I will probably be picking one of these up very soon!

Your welcome :)

MrV

As will I.

Great! is worth i tell you. I wish you the best.

MrV

Is there a reason why you use the 13' stand instead of the 10'. From the photos of the setup, you are bouncing the light off the ceiling.
Thanks
David

yes, 13' is higher and is also a heavy duty light stand. You're going to need a the height of the 13" to bounce the light from the white wall and white ceiling.

--MrV

MrV, one more question on these. Are you still held to the max ss of 250 based on sync rate like most flash?
Yes, I can only shoot at 250 max sync. I'm using a Canon 20D.
Now if you have a higher end camera like the Mk II or MKIII then you can go up as 500 max sync, but you'll still have to shoot one frame at a time.

Basically, can I shoot 5fps at 1/800 using a B800 remotely? I can handle the noise from my 30D at high ISO so to me, the real benefit of the strobe is to achieve higher ss to freeze action.

An B800 needs a second or more to be ready to shoot again specially shooting at full power so one frame at a time.
If you try to shoot more fps you'll see that your strobe will give you full power on the first frame and the second will get half or less than that and it will keep getting lower and lower until the strobe gives you no light at all.

--MrV

I would like to think that if you were using two of the B800's, one on each side of the court, that you should be able to achieve a higher ss. Someone correct me if i am wrong.
You're limited to the max sync allowed by the camera you're using, in my case is 250 ss.

--MrV

Using strobes does not enable you to shoot higher shutter speeds. You still need to use your camera sync speed. It is the duration of the flash that is actually freezing the action. Depending on the strobes being used they give you the same effect as shooting between 1/800 up to 1/2500.... depending on how fast the strobe discharges.

Amen

--MrV

[dmwierz]

yes, 13' is higher and is also a heavy duty light stand. You're going to need a the height of the 13" to bounce the light from the white wall and white ceiling.


The main reason for getting a 13' stand is that some schools and organizations require that all flashes or strobes be located above the rim, and 10' will not accomplish this. There are heavy duty 10' stands, BTW.

If you are bouncing off the ceiling, the extra 3' you get from a 13' stand is not going to make that big of a difference is an average-sized gym. If you are bouncing off the wall, and angling downwards, the extra 3' may provide a little more working room, but I have yet to shoot in a gym where the wall was a possible bounce refelctor but the ceiling wasn't.

If you are firing direct (IMO, preferable to bouncing, but not always possible) you'll need the extra 3 feet to get above the rim (unless you can mount your flashes to railings, catwalks, etc., which are usually more secure and less prone to getting bumped).

FWIW, here's the section from my local State HS organization:

Authorized news media representatives, who have contacted schools in advance and identified themselves to the host school principal (or designee), may be permitted to use electronic lighting equipment throughout the course of a given activity. Such electronic lighting can either be: 1) strobe lights mounted to fixed positions and/or 2) electronic attachments mounted on a camera. The host school should make coaches and game officials aware when permission has been granted for photographers to use electronic lighting.

Rationale: This gives clearer directions and protocols to the photographers and host schools on how to handle the issue of using electronic lighting.