Help me create my mega Alien Bees package

[Cathpah]

I know I'm trying to do the impossible, but I'm gonna give it a go anyways. I'd like to put together a mega alien bees package that can do anything/everything and won't leave me needing new things every other day down the road. My fiancee has told me she'll get this for me for xmas, but she does hate the fact that as a photographer I'm always needing some new lens/filter/accessory/computer part....so I'd love to do this all in one order and get it right the first time, and eventually sell anything I don't end up using or needing down the road. I've read many of the FAQs, stickies, and many threads here, so I'm hoping you guys can help me further with opinions/tips/knowledge/whatever.

(all of this post is purely my brainstorming and in know way do i claim to have much knowledge nor am I easily offendable or are my feelings hurt easily. If I'm wrong in my thinking, please point it out.)

First off, this is my first true studio light setup. I've played lots with 580ex's and master/slave setups, but i feel that it's certainly holding me back in the long run. I've done a couple strobist things/mods as well, so I have an idea about lighting, but also admit I've got loads to learn. I'm trying to combat a lot of this ignorance by buying a lighting set up and learning with each piece slowly but surely. Never will really learn it all just by reading the forums, so it's time to get my hands dirty.

The reason why I'm trying to put together the super package is that I'm planning on buying 4-5 lights (including a ringflash) and will also have a student discount that I can apply to it (my fiancee is still a student and is buying this for me as a xmas gift) and therefore I'll be getting a pretty killer discount on accessories. Basically I'd like to buy all the accessories that I'll need or want in the near future, without sacrificing any quality (i.e. if another company makes a better softbox/barndoor/etc and it's equally or reasonably priced to the AB version, I'd much prefer to go that route)

I'm hoping to end up doing portraiture (classical and glamour, indoor/outdoor)), product photography, and also be able to use this setup for non-traditional needs as well (lighting up a skatepark for skateboarding photos and other fun/weird stuff). I'll also be using this stuff for weddings (group portraits, outdoor fill, etc.), if my career takes me down that path, and I'll be living near the beach so I'd like to be able to have my lights compete with the sun if need be. I'm certainly planning on taking this stuff outside of a studio, so portable power is a must.

As of now I'm thinking of doing basically a modified busy bee package (depending on what you lovely folks tell me to add or subtract), as well as an ABR 800 w/ either the 30" or 56" moon unit.

For my 4 lights I was thinking:
(1) B1600 (for the main light and the light that i'll bring when needing to compete with the sun or light up a larger area, etc.)
(2)- B800
(1)- B400 (background light or when requiring much less light)
(1)- ABR800 ring flash

the sticky wicket here is that I don't exactly know what my studio space will end up being, however I know it won't be a giant warehouse sized studio (in the process of moving/house shopping) but again, I want this kit to be relatively flexible whenever.

I know that going 1/16th of power or less can decrease the dependency/accuracy of the flash output, so I'm a bit worried about the B1600, but I also think I'll need it for outdoor portraits and sports applications.

1- What do you think of my choices of lights? Is there really any reason I should get a B400?

2- Also, any idea how the vagabond II will be? I know that not all users loved the original vagabond and many used other alternatives....do we think that the newest version will make the old faults become obsolete? Would you recommend I go for the Vagabond II, or look elsewhere for my portable power? Will I need two vagabond units?

3- Also wanting to go wireless here. I'm hoping to go with the pocket wizard system and the sekonic L-758 (to take advantage of wireless capabilities). I can't think of any instance where I'll be competing with other photographer's over pw frequencies, so will I need more than 2 (one transmitter and one receiver)? I guess I'm not 100% sure why I'd need a pw for each flash head.

So, that brings me to alien bee modifiers and accessories. I guess I'm just looking for opinions and experience with AB products here. Again, if I can get a better product than that which is offered by AB for a relatively similar price, speak up! I'm am definitely a follower of the "buy once, buy right" philosophy.

4- So, what are your opinions on ABR stands, softboxes, umbrellas, grids, bags. What will I want/need from them, and what should I look elsewhere for?

I'll start from the ground up...

5-do you like ABR stands, or should I look to other companies for that?

6- How bout barndoors...I know TMRdesign wasn't happy with his, but has anyone else found a fix or alternative they've been happy with (without busting out the dremel tool like TMR)?

7- grids? (are they all same from brand to brand, or is one significantly better?)

8-/B] reflectors? which/how many will I want/need? I assume I'll want at least one 7" reflector as well as a beauty dish...do I need more? white shovel? 5-in-1 reflector kit?

[B]9- I assume I'll want the AB gels and gel holder kit with light mod frames? Would I need this frame for all 4 lights? (sorry, I'm sure a lot of dumb questions here)

10- which moon unit for the ringflash do you recommend? I'm leaning towards the 30" because I worry that the larger one will then basically just act as a giant softbox and take away from the ringflash look....is that correct or am I crazy/stupid?

11- speaking of softboxes, do you recommend folding or standard? speedrings are pretty necessary/advantageous? will i ever want more than 2 softboxes? will 1 suffice? (even more dumb questions? :p)

12- how bout umbrellas? what do you recommend here?

13- Lastly (for now), how about carrying bags? Do you like/use them, or do you think there's a much better solution.

I know there are MILLIONS of questions here, but I do hope you'll still help me out in answering as many as you can, even if you can't/don't want to answer them all. I've certainly put my time in helping others with things that I'm more knowledgeable about than this, and I hope that you all can muster the effort (;)) to help me out here. Who knows, maybe it can turn into a super-alienbee-buying-guide-sticky...

As always, thanks very much in advance!

[Cathpah]

upon seeing the sheer size of this post, I think I'll go in and number each section or question to make answering it a little simpler. Feel free to ignore the numbering though, and answer any ol' way you like!

[Electric Monk]

grids doesn't have a number ;) I'm looking forward to the answer for this myself as freelance programming has provided a surplus of cash and I really want to learn studio lighting.

[Cathpah]

grids doesn't have a number ;) I'm looking forward to the answer for this myself as freelance programming has provided a surplus of cash and I really want to learn studio lighting.

touche sir! duly noted and now changed. thanks for pointing that out, as making this more complicated from improper numbering is about the last thing this thread needs!

[cskn0125]

1- What do you think of my choices of lights? Is there really any reason I should get a B400?

I think your choice is wrong. Get 4 800's and an ABR - basically what I mean is try and keep them the same whether it be 400's or 1600's.

2- Also, any idea how the vagabond II will be? I know that not all users loved the original vagabond and many used other alternatives....do we think that the newest version will make the old faults become obsolete? Would you recommend I go for the Vagabond II, or look elsewhere for my portable power? Will I need two vagabond units?

The new vagabond is good, really good. I have one of the second generations of the Vagabond II's on order. The new one is more efficient ( the inverter is a custom design) and it has built in ground fault control - so no need for grounding. In my opinion, there is nothing better.

3- Also wanting to go wireless here. I'm hoping to go with the pocket wizard system and the sekonic L-758 (to take advantage of wireless capabilities). I can't think of any instance where I'll be competing with other photographer's over pw frequencies, so will I need more than 2 (one transmitter and one receiver)? I guess I'm not 100% sure why I'd need a pw for each flash head.

I suggest receivers for all of your units. You will eventually run into a situation where one of your lights without a receiver does not see the unit flash, and therefore will not flash itself. If all receivers is too expensive, opt for the wireless triggers that AB has - I love mine. Now, if you can afford it and think you need the small extras, go for the 758, otherwise I suggest the 358 with the PW module.

So, that brings me to alien bee modifiers and accessories. I guess I'm just looking for opinions and experience with AB products here. Again, if I can get a better product than that which is offered by AB for a relatively similar price, speak up! I'm am definitely a follower of the "buy once, buy right" philosophy.



4- So, what are your opinions on ABR stands, softboxes, umbrellas, grids, bags. What will I want/need from them, and what should I look elsewhere for?

Their accessories/modifiers are good - go with them.

I say large softboxes, maybe a giant octabox. I like the beauty dish and would suggest it - but I'm not sure if you would want one...look for pictures taken with it - I think it's awesome. Grids are good, real good. If you can get a grid kit (or a couple :p) get em. The first time I used grids, I realized I wanted more. Personally, a couple stripboxes with grids are on my shopping list.

I'll start from the ground up...

5-do you like ABR stands, or should I look to other companies for that?

I have the 13 ft. HD stands. When I first got them (they were my first stands what so ever) I grabbed one out of it's box and got the impression that they were really crappy and cheap - just the way they felt to me. But after using them, I love em'

I suggest getting at least one Boom as well, mines used every time I use the lights....Not a manditory thing, but it may come in handy with hair lights & beauty dish usage.

6- How bout barndoors...I know TMRdesign wasn't happy with his, but has anyone else found a fix or alternative they've been happy with (without busting out the dremel tool like TMR)?

I'm still looking to buy some bardoors. I may just try them out and see what happens, but for the record, I understand and agree with Roberts (TMRDesign) review about them.

7- grids? (are they all same from brand to brand, or is one significantly better?)

Like I said above, grids are pretty awesome. Grids for your lights - I've just stuck to the AB ones..I've never bothered to search for any other brand.

For the softboxes, keep in mind, they only fit the FOLDABLE softboxes.

8-/B] reflectors? which/how many will I want/need? I assume I'll want at least one 7" reflector as well as a beauty dish...do I need more? white shovel? 5-in-1 reflector kit?

[B]Reflectors are always a good thing to have - so get one 5 in 1. I bought mine from B&H with a stand for about $115. I think it is 42". As I said above - I'm in love with the beauty dish, so make your judgment.

9- I assume I'll want the AB gels and gel holder kit with light mod frames? Would I need this frame for all 4 lights? (sorry, I'm sure a lot of dumb questions here)

You don't need the lite mod gel holder for the gels - you can use the clips that the AB units come with. Though, if you do get the lite mod, you can do things like have bardoors and grids and gels on at the same time - that's up to you.

10- which moon unit for the ringflash do you recommend? I'm leaning towards the 30" because I worry that the larger one will then basically just act as a giant softbox and take away from the ringflash look....is that correct or am I crazy/stupid?

I have the 56" unit. It is awesome and it wraps light wonderfully. But since I suggested an octabox, I say get a 30". One thing I dislike about the 56" is it's size.

Both units diminish the ringflash look once you put them on.

11- speaking of softboxes, do you recommend folding or standard? speedrings are pretty necessary/advantageous? will i ever want more than 2 softboxes? will 1 suffice? (even more dumb questions? )

If you want to use grids on your softboxes in the future, you can only do that with foldable ones - so it is up to you. I suppose if it were me and I had the chance to re-buy them, I would get the foldables just because I want to use grids....

Since you are getting 4 lights, why only 1 soft box? I say maybe something like:
Giant Octabox
large softboxes and/or Stripboxes.

12- how bout umbrellas? what do you recommend here?

I dont have extensive use with umbrellas, but understand the use well. I suggest maybe 1 just so you can at least see how you like em - afterall I don't think $19.99 is going to hurt a few thousand dollar package :p . Maybe someone else can shed more light on this topic.

13- Lastly (for now), how about carrying bags? Do you like/use them, or do you think there's a much better solution.

Grab a pelican case for your lights if you want to keep them nice and organized. The 1660 has proven to be an awesome case for AB's.




Now, there is one thing I want to say...

Are you sure you really want to jump in with ALL this gear at once? Not necessarily a bad thing of course, but this is a lot of gear.

Because you want such a big package, I was just throwing ideas out there for products that I personally like & suggest, so I hope that helps a little bit.

[cskn0125]

join here:

paulcbuff.com/forums

In a second I will post up an actual package that I personally prefer, so you can at least get an idea of what you might want..

Edit: Here is what I would call a "Mega" package. Keep in mind...a few of these items suit my needs, so a few may not be the right choice for you.

After looking at this, I realized that Paul's discount system is a life saver. If you were to buy this exact package, you would save almost $500 because of it. I also figured it would be around $5000, but luckily the total is much cheaper..

I hope you can read small wiriting. If not, let me know and I will be glad to type up what I chose.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/cskn0125/Untitled-1-3.jpg

[Cathpah]

Now, there is one thing I want to say...

Are you sure you really want to jump in with ALL this gear at once? Not necessarily a bad thing of course, but this is a lot of gear.


CSKN- thanks so much for getting this thread going in the right way! I didn't want to quote the whole thing to save some space, but you really answered a lot of my questions wonderfully. thanks!

regarding the above question, yes, I do think I want to order it all at once. That way I'll be able to play with the different options/modifiers and really get a feel for their effect in real life situations. The discount certainly doesn't hurt either when buying the accessories.

I may not end up getting the best of the best of everything (for instance pw's, vs radiopopper and ab radio units and sekonic 358 vs 758) but I'm trying to go headfirst into this to really learn as much as i can, as fast as i can. That said, I will most likely start with one light in the learning process, and move up incrementally as i feel more and more comfortable with each step along the way.

Okay, on to your responses...I understand giving up the 400...but if i do 3x800 and 1x1600 is that really going to hurt me or make it significantly more difficult/unusable? how so? I'd love to have a 1600 for outdoor portraits on the beach where i'll be competing with the sun....do i just need to get that as a separate unit?!

receivers for all units, huh? oohwee that'd get costly if i went the way of the PW....sounds like i'll have to look further into ab radio triggers or radiopoppers. anyone disagree with this? Am i really missing out on the functionality of pw's or the wireless function of the sekonic 758?

beauty dish sounds like it's a go...do i need the modifier for that?

grids and softboxes/stripbox/octabox all sounds reasonable...size/number recommendations?

do you use 13ft stands for all of your stands? Boom sounds like a good idea...i'll have to check their sight to see if they sell one. I assume then i'll need to sandbag that stand?

foldable softboxes sound fine to me....only drawbacks i've heard about are that they're larger to store...which is fine with me as long as they function just as well.

good to know that i don't need the gel holders unless i want to use multiple mods at a time...maybe i'll hold off on that until i master the multiple modifier thing first. how are the ab gels themselves?

i think 30" moon unit sounds like the ticket for me...

aside from being able to say i know how to use umbrellas...is there really anything that they're giving me that i can't do with gels and softboxes? (could very well be a dumb question...i'm full of em!)

pelican case seems like a very good idea. will the one you mention hold all 4 standard flash units? how bout the abr800 as well?

Thanks again for all your feedback.

Other posters, feel free to respond to both this and the first question-filled post. I appreciate a wide variety of opinions and experiences, and wouldn't want this thread to be dictated by just one opinion. looking forward to hearing more from everyone!

[Cathpah]

join here:

paulcbuff.com/forums

In a second I will post up an actual package that I personally prefer, so you can at least get an idea of what you might want..

Edit: Here is what I would call a "Mega" package. Keep in mind...a few of these items suit my needs, so a few may not be the right choice for you.

After looking at this, I realized that Paul's discount system is a life saver. If you were to buy this exact package, you would save almost $500 because of it. I also figured it would be around $5000, but luckily the total is much cheaper..

I hope you can read small wiriting. If not, let me know and I will be glad to type up what I chose.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/cskn0125/Untitled-1-3.jpg

care to either cut and paste that text or share a link to that? really tough to read but i'm sure it'll be damn helpful. thanks again!

edit: just joined the forum...but barely. that's the hardest anti-spam text box i've ever had to copy. took me 4 tries! <hangs head in shame>

[cskn0125]

CSKN- thanks so much for getting this thread going in the right way! I didn't want to quote the whole thing to save some space, but you really answered a lot of my questions wonderfully. thanks!

regarding the above question, yes, I do think I want to order it all at once. That way I'll be able to play with the different options/modifiers and really get a feel for their effect in real life situations. The discount certainly doesn't hurt either when buying the accessories.

I'm the same way, I love being able to have everything right there and then so I can decide on the spot which I like best. :D

I may not end up getting the best of the best of everything (for instance pw's, vs radiopopper and ab radio units and sekonic 358 vs 758) but I'm trying to go headfirst into this to really learn as much as i can, as fast as i can. That said, I will most likely start with one light in the learning process, and move up incrementally as i feel more and more comfortable with each step along the way.

Okay, on to your responses...I understand giving up the 400...but if i do 3x800 and 1x1600 is that really going to hurt me or make it significantly more difficult/unusable? how so? I'd love to have a 1600 for outdoor portraits on the beach where i'll be competing with the sun....do i just need to get that as a separate unit?!

Yeah, that's not a big deal or anything. The 800's can compete with the sun, but the 1600's will blow it away. So yes, I think it is a good idea to get 1 or 2 1600's.

receivers for all units, huh? oohwee that'd get costly if i went the way of the PW....sounds like i'll have to look further into ab radio triggers or radiopoppers. anyone disagree with this? Am i really missing out on the functionality of pw's or the wireless function of the sekonic 758?

beauty dish sounds like it's a go...do i need the modifier for that?

No modifiers needed. Just remember to buy the sock as well.

grids and softboxes/stripbox/octabox all sounds reasonable...size/number recommendations?

Perhaps 1 large octa (maybe with a grid), 1 large softbox (maybe with a grid), and 2 strips W/ grids?

do you use 13ft stands for all of your stands? Boom sounds like a good idea...i'll have to check their sight to see if they sell one. I assume then i'll need to sandbag that stand?

Yea, I use all 13ft stands. They do sell their own boom, and it is pretty good. I've done research on most and this is pretty much the best. Nothing else this good is even close to the price range. I personally don't sandbag the stand, the counterweight does it's job well. I have actually tried pushing over the entire setup, but theres no way it would fall.

foldable softboxes sound fine to me....only drawbacks i've heard about are that they're larger to store...which is fine with me as long as they function just as well.

good to know that i don't need the gel holders unless i want to use multiple mods at a time...maybe i'll hold off on that until i master the multiple modifier thing first. how are the ab gels themselves?

i think 30" moon unit sounds like the ticket for me...

aside from being able to say i know how to use umbrellas...is there really anything that they're giving me that i can't do with gels and softboxes? (could very well be a dumb question...i'm full of em!)

Not really, or at least I don't think so. Other than maybe providing a wider spread, I can't think of anything else.

pelican case seems like a very good idea. will the one you mention hold all 4 standard flash units? how bout the abr800 as well?

Yeah, the 1660 is an awesome case from what I've seen. If you join the forum link I posted, there is a thread with a full review + pictures with AB's and tonnes of accessories inside it.

Thanks again for all your feedback....

Other posters, feel free to respond to both this and the first question-filled post. I appreciate a wide variety of opinions and experiences, and wouldn't want this thread to be dictated by just one opinion. looking forward to hearing more from everyone!

Hope it helps.

[Cathpah]

Hope it helps. helps a ton!

so if i were to get 1x1600 and 3x800, I could use all 4 together without any big disadvantage? I'm certainly willing to toss the 400 from the package and make tim "the toolman" taylor proud ("more power!")...i can't believe i just said that. this could turn out to be an embarrassing thread! ;)

the sock was what i was referring to in modifier....i'll be sure to add that.

how does 3 x 13" for stands, 1 boom (would i ever need more?) and 1 backlight stand sound?

thanks again!

[cskn0125]

care to either cut and paste that text or share a link to that? really tough to read but i'm sure it'll be damn helpful. thanks again!

edit: just joined the forum...but barely. that's the hardest anti-spam text box i've ever had to copy. took me 4 tries! <hangs head in shame>


4 attempts :p.

Here is a list of the equipment I chose.

1 ringflash
4 AB 800's
Beauty dish
diffusion sock for BD
5 in 1 reflector
Boom arm w/ counterweight
Vagabond II
ABR 20* grid
Set of 20 gels
set of 6 gels
Large foldable octabox
2 Foldable stripboxes
2 large foldable SB
2 strip grids
2 large SB grids
Grid for octabox
2 sets of honeycomb grids
30" MU for ABR
5 Receivers
Transmitter
32" gold/silver umbrella.

Total W/out shipping including discount: $3483.23

[cskn0125]

helps a ton!

so if i were to get 1x1600 and 3x800, I could use all 4 together without any big disadvantage? I'm certainly willing to toss the 400 from the package and make tim "the toolman" taylor proud ("more power!")...i can't believe i just said that. this could turn out to be an embarrassing thread! ;)

haha yeah. There is certainly no big disadvantage to having different lights - I think what you chose is great.

the sock was what i was referring to in modifier....i'll be sure to add that.

how does 3 x 13" for stands, 1 boom (would i ever need more?) and 1 backlight stand sound?

Sounds good to me. I think 1 boom would be good enough.
thanks again!

OK, I need to go to bed now. It's 3:30AM and I need to be up at 9AM, haha.

[Cathpah]

no other opinions? it sounds like cskn knows what he's talking about...but i'd REALLY like some other opinions or ideas!

bueller?

[Cathpah]

a couple more questions:

A) will i want/need to use my abr for general use (non ringflash-on-camera)?

B) will one vagabond do the trick?

C) should i get a backlight stand, or do the 13ft stands collapse small enough to act as a backlight stand w/o probs?

D) how many softboxes/stripboxes do i really need? I'm thinking one octabox, 2 lg softboxes, and one stripbox....am i skimping on anything here?

E) umbrellas? are they doing anything that a softbox with gels cannot do? I assume i'd only be looking at reflective umbrellas since a shoot-throw is basically a softbox, but not as good....correct?

F) if i get the ab radio triggers, i need to have a way to control them. Should i then get the wired four channel remote?

G) if i'm not going with pocket wizards...is there a significant difference (or reason to pick one or the other) between the sekonic 358 and 758? This meter would be for use really only with these lights.

thanks again!

[fortinaa]

I'll only add a few things here:

* You may not need PW modules for every unit, just your camera, and at least 2 flashes (your main and any that the optical unit is out of reach or covered on). You don't need to get all the new Plus II units either. You may pick up a couple of the old style receivers cheap if you watch for them used.

* I am not positive you will need all 13' stands. I bought a larger stand that I found a good deal on, then found I would have to spend a fortune to get a bag long enough to fit it in when going on location. The only instance I ever needed to get my light up that high was when doing a large outdoor portrait with about 40 people.

* I would definitely pick up some umbrellas as well. Mainly I like them for ease of use and quick setup. I have an AB 47" octabox. I find it to be a PIA to set up by myself. It isn't easy to get all those rods in the speedring. I wish AB had something like the Westcott Apollo units that are a square/rectangle softbox on an umbrella frame and sets up in minutes. With umbrellas, if you need to run out to a school or office to do a quick portrait or headshot, you don't keep anybody waiting for you to get set up.

* I haven't looked recently and should, but does AB offer a stripbox? I don't have one but have seen many other pros that use them for the ability to really control your light and spill. Sometimes the biggest softbox you can find is not the light you really want.

[TMR Design]

1- What do you think of my choices of lights? Is there really any reason I should get a B400?

2- Also, any idea how the vagabond II will be? I know that not all users loved the original vagabond and many used other alternatives....do we think that the newest version will make the old faults become obsolete? Would you recommend I go for the Vagabond II, or look elsewhere for my portable power? Will I need two vagabond units?

3- Also wanting to go wireless here. I'm hoping to go with the pocket wizard system and the sekonic L-758 (to take advantage of wireless capabilities). I can't think of any instance where I'll be competing with other photographer's over pw frequencies, so will I need more than 2 (one transmitter and one receiver)? I guess I'm not 100% sure why I'd need a pw for each flash head.

So, that brings me to alien bee modifiers and accessories. I guess I'm just looking for opinions and experience with AB products here. Again, if I can get a better product than that which is offered by AB for a relatively similar price, speak up! I'm am definitely a follower of the "buy once, buy right" philosophy.

4- So, what are your opinions on ABR stands, softboxes, umbrellas, grids, bags. What will I want/need from them, and what should I look elsewhere for?

I'll start from the ground up...

5-do you like ABR stands, or should I look to other companies for that?

6- How bout barndoors...I know TMRdesign wasn't happy with his, but has anyone else found a fix or alternative they've been happy with (without busting out the dremel tool like TMR)?

7- grids? (are they all same from brand to brand, or is one significantly better?)

8- reflectors? which/how many will I want/need? I assume I'll want at least one 7" reflector as well as a beauty dish...do I need more? white shovel? 5-in-1 reflector kit?

9- I assume I'll want the AB gels and gel holder kit with light mod frames? Would I need this frame for all 4 lights? (sorry, I'm sure a lot of dumb questions here)

10- which moon unit for the ringflash do you recommend? I'm leaning towards the 30" because I worry that the larger one will then basically just act as a giant softbox and take away from the ringflash look....is that correct or am I crazy/stupid?

11- speaking of softboxes, do you recommend folding or standard? speedrings are pretty necessary/advantageous? will i ever want more than 2 softboxes? will 1 suffice? (even more dumb questions? :p)

12- how bout umbrellas? what do you recommend here?

13- Lastly (for now), how about carrying bags? Do you like/use them, or do you think there's a much better solution.


Hi Jeff,

It looks like you're getting some good information and answers to your questions.
Let me jump in and give some input.

#1: For what you're describing I would not get a B400. There's nothing wrong with B400's and certainly you can always find one light in your setup that doesn't require all the power of your other lights but since you don't exactly know where you'll be or in what situation I think the B400 might not do it and you don't want to have to start swapping lights to get the B400 where it's most appropriate or powerful enough.

You can certainly use B800's out doors and get great results. A B1600 never hurts for outdoor and group shooting but I wouldn't say it's necessary. It's a nice option but as Curtis has pointed out in other posts, if the power is not required then you'll find yourself working at the bottom end of the power control or using ND gels to get the power down to workable levels.

I think ultimately you're better off with either 1 B1600, 3 B800's and the ABR800, or 4 B800's and the ABR800.

#2: The Vagabond II seems to be well liked among AB users and I know that some of the initial bugs have been worked out and it's a pretty reliable source of portable power. I also know that there are potential problems running a lot of lights, and you MUST make sure you don't have the modeling lights on or you'll eat up power very quickly.
Despite the fact that you may have a large kit, realistically you probably won't be dragging the whole kit around and needing power for all your strobes at one time. If you did I would suggest either an alternative portable power supply or 2 Vagabond II's. 4 lights or 3 lights and a ring flash is too much for it. My understanding is that the Vagabond II will power 2 or 3 strobes very comfortably with reasonable recycle times and enough pops to get you through a shoot.

#3: Technically you only need 2 Pocket Wizards if you're going that route. One for the camera and one for the 'master' strobe. All other strobes will fire via the built-in optical slave trigger. The optical triggers work well but if covered or out of view then you can run into trouble getting the slaves to fire. When this is the case you can do 1 of 2 things. You can either add another Pocket Wizard for the strobes that are the culprits or you can simply run a cable (1/8" mono mini plug to 1/8" mono mini plug) from the Flash output of the Pocket Wizard mounted on your camera and connect it directly to the strobe that is not firing correctly. This works well and even though it does require a cable it's a quick solution that does not cost money, much less the cost of another Pocket Wizard, and can quickly be connected to any one of the slaves. If you're working outdoors you don't only have to contend with possible photographers using the same frequency, but the bigger issue at times is the random misfire due to sunlight or distance of the strobes to one another. The optical trigger is sensitive and works great in a controlled environment but does have it's drawbacks if things are not controlled.

I know there are other wireless solutions and other means of using a Sekonic meter to trigger your strobes wirelessly but I am one that absolutely loves what Pocket Wizards offer and the seamless integration with no additional transmitter and without having to use the 'auto reset cordless flash' mode. Many have no problem with that and would much rather save the money and many feel the convenience, performance and reliability of Pocket Wizards are worth it.

It's a personal decision that only you can make and only you know where you'll find convenience and what you feel is 'worth it'.

#5: I believe Curtis tested an AB light stand against another similarly priced stand and found the quality to be good but not great. Quality of design and construction are sometimes not revealed until you're folding and moving, setting up, breaking down, loading in the car, etc.. With a lot of this gear, if it sits in your studio and is set up most of the time (as mine are) you'll see that the quality is quite good and does exactly what it should without failing. Booms with strobes and modifers on the end are more demanding and I advise against the generic aluminum stands and booms. They bend, flex, and put a lot of stress on the components that hold and lock things in place.
I would spend the extra money and get a boom kit from Manfrotto or another leading brand, made of steel, with casters and either comes with the counter weight or has provision for hanging sandbags. I use a Manfrotto Avenger boom that has a large eye hook on the end and I can add a sandbag of the appropriate weight to counter whatever is hanging off the end of the boom. Depending on the length of the boom you may also want to have some sandbags for the leg braces of the tripod to keep it planted very firmly on the ground without having to worry about it tipping in on itself in between 2 of the legs.

#6: The Lowel barn door modification I've posted about is a great one, but certainly it's not for everyone and that is understandable. In my never ending quest for third party modifiers that are compatible with Alien Bees strobes I've found another great option that requires a pair of pliers and 2 minutes of your time to make an Alien Bees strobe compatible with an entire line of Norman products.

I'll be posting to a separate thread with pictures and the details. Regarding the barn doors, off hand I think the Lowel doors were just under $60. This other option is a more costly one but by far it's better than the Alien Bees barn doors, and if you were going to buy the AB doors and the LiteMod frame then this works out to be a much better deal for a better product.

#7: Grids, or honeycomb grids, are not universal but they all do the same thing. In the case of grids I think the Alien Bees is the best bet and rather than try to figure out which one to get I would suggest you get the set of 4 that AB sells. It includes a 10, 20, 30 and 40 degree grid and all are useful and can simulate one another depending on distance from light to the area you're lighting. Typically grids are more expensive from other manufacturers and you get 3 for the the price you pay to get 4 from AB.

#8: 2 types of reflectors. You mentioned reflectors used on strobes. I'll address that as well as reflectors used to return light to an area of your shot.

Regarding reflectors for strobes... each Alien Bees strobe comes with a 7" reflector that will give you an 80 degree spread. For most things, this works fine. I've chosen to replace some of the AB 7" reflectors with a Norman 5" wide angle reflector. I'll show this in the same thread as the other third party accessories I previously mentioned.

There are differences in fill reflectors but they all do the same thing, some more effieciently, some with greater specularity, and in varying sizes. The type and size will definitely be affected by the type of shot and location you're shooting. For instance, in the studio I like to use white reflectors over silver ones because the silver reflector has greater specularity and I don't particulary care for the way it looks. On the other hand, if I were outdoor on a sunny day then I'm not concerned about specularity and the greater efficiency of the silver comes in handy.

If you're lighting the face and need some fill on the shadow side or under the chin then you can use a fairly small reflector. If you want fill on a head and shoulder shot you may want a 22" or 32" reflector. If you were doing a full length portrait you may want something like a 41" x 74" oval to give very nice, smooth, even fill.

Collapsible reflectors are 2 sided and most manufacturers offer a choice of what is on each side, such as white on one side and soft gold on the other, or silver on one side and white on the other. Then there are the 5 in 1 kits which are nice and usually include a black panel for negative fill. Personally I like to have the sizes and types I want rather than a 5 in 1 of all the same size. If you're going to use reflectors, remember you either need an assistant to hold it or a stand and adapter to support and position the reflector.

The white shovel is a little gimmicky but it works and does the job. I've never had a problem lighting and isolating without one but perhaps it's a nice device. I can't say because I don't have experience with it.

#9: I recommend you NOT get the AB LiteMod frame for using gels. Again, my new solution is by far a better one (I know you're getting tired of hearing about it and not seeing it. please be patient), with a reasonable and comparable price tag as the AB system. Obviously if you want/need gels on multiple strobes then you'll need the additional accessories for each light.

#10: Sorry, I don't own the ring flash so I can't help with that.

#11: I don't own the Alien Bees softboxes or octaboxes so I can't comment on them but here is what I can offer. Paul Buff provides good products at affordable prices and gives many manufacturers a good run for their money. For the price of AB softboxes and light enclosures there are a few alternatives, Photoflex being one of them. Photflex modifers are also compatible with the Alien Bees speed ring and that is a necessity for using softboxes, octaboxes, etc. If you plan on using setups with 2 lightbox modifers then you'll need 2 speed rings.

Foldable softboxes from AB have a built in speed ring and you don't to purchase anything else to mount them to your strobes. I recognize the convenience of foldable modifiers but honestly, I don't see what all the headache is with standard boxes. I don't find it to be problematic or hard to setup and breakdown, and I suspect they are far more durable in the long term than the foldable umbrella mechanism. I see much more potential damage on a windy day with a foldable box.

As far as the number of softboxes, that's hard to say. I would however recommend that you not limit yourself to softboxes. Octaboxes are very nice and give you a different type of coverage than a square or rectangular box. Diffusion panels are simple, fast and convenient to use when you simply don't need the isolation of a softbox. If you were shooting full length outside, there is no need for a 6' box. You can just set up 1 or 2 strobes behind a collapsible diffusion panel and fire away.

Devices like the Photek Softlighter II and the Illuminata II are wonderful, with the Illuminata being a really amazing device with very even light from edge to edge. Many inexpensive softboxes (even some expensive ones) look great but if you take a meter to them you'll find a huge variance in the light as you move from center to an edge.

#12: Everyone has umbrella preferences and that will also be determined by whether the umbrella is a main or fill source, coupled with the size of the subject area that needs to be lit.

For some things, a 32" umbrella will suffice and other times a 45" or a 60" is what's needed. If an umbrella is to be used as a main light source modifier I prefer it to be a white translucent shoot through umbrella. If I'm using it for bounce fill I'll either use white (with removable black backing) or silver for the greater efficiency and greater distance from the subject.

#13: Depending on the size of your portable kit you may want hard cases rather than soft bags. My kit is only partially portable so I don't know all the fine points of location shooting. If I had 1 or 2 strobes I might consider the individual bags from AB but I'd be more inclined to get some sort of molded foam canvas bag that I customized for 2 or 4 strobes, reflectors, power cords, cables, etc.

I have a Photoflex canvas bag that holds about 3 or 4 light stands, a boom arm and assorted doo-dads. It hasn't been used enough to know if its the best or most convenient way to carry my gear.

Well, there you have it. That's my 50 cents worth.

[RichNY]

In my never ending quest for third party modifiers that are compatible with Alien Bees strobes I've found another great option that requires a pair of pliers and 2 minutes of your time to make an Alien Bees strobe compatible with an entire line of Norman products.


"Well, I could think of three things I'd like to do. One would involve some ice cubes and a nine iron. Two would involve a buffalo, live or stuffed, preferably stuffed for safety sake, and three, we bring back some of those ice cubes and switch it over to a pitching wedge."
-Billy Madison

[Cathpah]

Haha...thanks for that Rich.

I haven't been ignoring this thread....but am in the land of modem line internet in Indonesia and accessing the alienbees page is just too painful to do. I'll wait till I can get back to faster internet.

TMR- I look forward to your thread on making that modification, and will probably wait to place my order until I see what you're recommending.

I'll post my proposed shopping cart once I get back to the land of speedy internet. until then, any more recommendation or feedback is very much appreciated.

Thanks!

[TMR Design]

Hey Jeff,

Sorry I have not gotten to take the pics and describe the mod and accessories yet. By the end of the weekend I will have it posted. :D

EDIT: Make that sometime tomorrow. :)

[TMR Design]

Finally got the info in my blog. Sorry it took so long.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4405755#post4405755

[Cathpah]

Finally got the info in my blog. Sorry it took so long.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4405755#post4405755 (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4405755#post4405755)


don't apologize a bit! certainly worth the wait...although now it just gives me more to think about. This is getting more complicated by the minute. :p

Luckily, I still have 3 weeks till I get home and have time in Indonesia, Bangkok, and Tokyo to tide me over until i can plunk down the card for my lights.

thanks again robert!

[EOS MAN1]

I would definitely get 4 AB1600s to make sure you always have enough power. Sometimes thats not even enough. I can't decide between those and the new Zeus Lights.