What You can do with a 1D*

[KennyG]

Another big shoot today. As some may know I am lucky enough to have accreditation for a number of UK circuits, which means I get very close to the action. Well I couldn't have asked for more action than these three shots show.

They are taken with a 1D, 300mm 2.8L IS+1.4TC. Shot at 1/400 and ISO200.

This sequence requires a very fast camera buffer. As it happened I just kept hitting the shutter button (I was in single shot mode) and tried to keep what was happening in frame. These shots are straight out of the camera, just re-sized and are only three of a dozen of the incident. My 10D would not have coped, it is just too slow for this type of thing. However, I used my 10D for the post action shots as the 300+TC was too long to get everything in.

You may notice that they are team mates. Both walked away from it thank goodness. The cars are 'Legends', space-frame chassis with motorcyle engines. Very fast and, as you can see, very safe. The drivers in this series are known as the bad boys of motorsport and in my two years of following the series I have seen 50% of their races ending on a red flag.

Hope you like them, my publisher has the masters and is more than happy.


Under
http://www.stiuk.dial.pipex.com/legends-1.jpg

Over
http://www.stiuk.dial.pipex.com/legends-2.jpg

Upside down
http://www.stiuk.dial.pipex.com/legends-3.jpg

[G3]

You could get one or some of the shots, and equal quality, but you probably couldn't get the same sequence depending on the time interval between these shots. I think what Kenny is referring to is the sequence...big difference between 3 fps and 8 fps (I think that's what a 1d can do?).

[CoolToolGuy]

Geez, Kenny, I got it right away, and I don't see any arrogance. Its all about the FPS, right?

Any single one of these shots, yes. Even with a non-DSLR. But the sequence? It takes a high-speed camera to capture the sequence.

[scotgasch]

BTW, I do agree with Kenny....those SEQUENCE of shots would have been IMPOSSIBLE with the slower fps of the 10d...


Great shots Kenny!!! :D

[Tom W]

The shot sequence is great. I don't think that Kenny was bragging on his equipment so much as showing a great sequence that he couldn't get with his other camera, which happens to be a 10D.

I didn't see it as arrogance, though I can understand someone taking it the wrong way. I've seen enough of Kenny's posts to know that he isn't that way.

[Andy_T]

Kenny, these shots are just awesome!

Apart from the action, I really adore the colours and the sharpness of the cars!

Best regards,
Andy

[KennyG]

Geez, Kenny, I got it right away, and I don't see any arrogance. Its all about the FPS, right?

You have put it exactly right. My 10D is a great camera and as some of you know I ran two of them last season and took over 25,000 shots between them. The obvious weakness is the rate at which you can hit, store and clear when shooting RAW in fast action situations. I lived with it until I replaced one of them with a 1D to get that much needed extra. There are fifteen shots in the sequence before I dropped the 1D and picked up the 10D. I took the 15 in less time than it would have taken the 10D to take 5. That is what the 1D was made for, the 10D wasn't. My wife has a 300D and it is even less capable than the 10D.

It isn't arrogance (I am not that sort of person), it is simple fact. If people don't like to hear it, tough. You have to learn the limits of your equipment and trust me, I know mine exactly.

Oh, I'll edit a PS in here - Not only are they team mates, the are brothers! I'd worry more about what mom says than the team boss. :D

[IanD]

Damn, that is an excellent sequence. Expect to see that in a race mag one day. Not a prayer in hell I could do that with my 10D. Maybe that is why I shoot ducks, geese, deer and other feathery/furry critters :lol:
Arrogance? Nope. That ain't Kennys style.

[PacAce]

That's a super shot, Kenny. :shock: Great clarity and sharpness while blurring out the background. Congrats on the capture.

Now, getting back to your question of whether a 10D or a 300D can do it, I would think that if you were "single-shot"ing it and not shooting in burst mode, I do think that you'd be able to get the same shots with the 10D unless you can "single shot" the camera release at faster than 3 frames per second. I don't think I can. :)

Or did your question have more to do with the number of shots you'd be able to get before the buffer size slowed you down on the 10D?

[angrybunny]

Kenny,

Those are amazing shots! 1D or 10D, I would have probably stood there with my jaw wide open...frozen.

[daaaveman]

Great shots Kenny. Always a pleasure to see your work.

[Mills]

Great Shots! Thank God for the long lens. How close do you actually get to the cars?

[gsmx2]

Geez, Kenny, I got it right away, and I don't see any arrogance. Its all about the FPS, right?

You have put it exactly right. My 10D is a great camera and as some of you know I ran two of them last season and took over 25,000 shots between them. The obvious weakness is the rate at which you can hit, store and clear when shooting RAW in fast action situations. I lived with it until I replaced one of them with a 1D to get that much needed extra. There are fifteen shots in the sequence before I dropped the 1D and picked up the 10D. I took the 15 in less time than it would have taken the 10D to take 5. That is what the 1D was made for, the 10D wasn't. My wife has a 300D and it is even less capable than the 10D.

It isn't arrogance (I am not that sort of person), it is simple fact. If people don't like to hear it, tough. You have to learn the limits of your equipment and trust me, I know mine exactly.

Oh, I'll edit a PS in here - Not only are they team mates, the are brothers! I'd worry more about what mom says than the team boss. :D

So Kenny--which camera gets retired when you get your MKII??? What would the sequence look like then? :D

gsm x2

[cecilc]

...I would think that if you were "single-shot"ing it and not shooting in burst mode, I do think that you'd be able to get the same shots with the 10D unless you can "single shot" the camera release at faster than 3 frames per second. I don't think I can. :)

Or did your question have more to do with the number of shots you'd be able to get before the buffer size slowed you down on the 10D?

Firstly, I echo everyone's else's thoughts regarding the photos - they're stunning.

But as soon as I saw that you were in "single shot mode" and just hitting the shutter repeatedly, I wondered the same thing that PacAce did.

I don't think I've ever shot a dozen shots with my 10D in RAW format by pressing the shutter repeatedly, but I have captured 5 or 6 images in single shot mode using that technique without waiting on the camera. I guess that would be a good test for me to do (find out just how many continuous single shots I can get with the 10D before it stops capturing the image) just in case I'm ever in the situation where I'd need to know .....

[chris.bailey]

Kenny

Great sequence and agree no chance of doing all of them with the 10D. Mind I would be pleased with capturing one of them.

Chris

[sp00g3]

Those are slick shots... and a very good sequence. But from what UI have been told about photography as an art, is that the best photographer only needs one shot. :) In this case since it is a sequence that may not apply. :)

[skiphoto]

Have to throw my hat into the ring on this one...As a powerboat photog I cannot wait for the 1 D Mk11 to be able to have access to the kinds of FPS it can supply. I agree that from my experience with the venerable 10D that it would not have captured the SEQUENCE...No arrogance detected.

Cheers

J

[evilenglishman]

My D-60 will capture 8 raw images then i have to wait 2 seconds and it will capture 4 more - thats about as fast as it will go

[KennyG]

Great Shots! Thank God for the long lens. How close do you actually get to the cars?

I was immediately behind the Armco barrier almost opposite the incident, so it was a track width away. It was about as close as you can sensibly get with a 300mm and 1.4TC plus the 1D's 1.3 FOV. Hands up here, it is a big advantage being an accredited photog and makes it easier from a 'what you can see' point-of-view than it would be from a public viewing area.

[KennyG]

Those are slick shots... and a very good sequence. But from what UI have been told about photography as an art, is that the best photographer only needs one shot. :) In this case since it is a sequence that may not apply. :)

I am an action photog and not at all an artist in the sense that I take great landscapes or portraits etc. My cameras may have burst mode but I only use them single shot as 'spray and pray' has never been my thing.

I admire anyone who produces works of photographic art, not matter what equipment they use. Everyone has their own photograpic talent and they should be proud of what they do.

[KennyG]

So Kenny--which camera gets retired when you get your MKII??? What would the sequence look like then? :D

gsm x2

My wife will probably retire her 300D and take over the 10D leaving me with a MK-I and MK-II 1D. I don't think she will keep the grip though as it makes the camera too heavy for her.

I am not sure how the images will look with a MK-II. The MK-I has that really crisp out of the camera image that is ideal for action work and the magazines seem to like the look. The 4mp isn't a handicap for what I do, but the MK-II and the room to crop will help. Maybe for that series I could have managed a few more in the sequence, who knows.

[KennyG]

That's a super shot, Kenny. :shock: Great clarity and sharpness while blurring out the background. Congrats on the capture.

Now, getting back to your question of whether a 10D or a 300D can do it, I would think that if you were "single-shot"ing it and not shooting in burst mode, I do think that you'd be able to get the same shots with the 10D unless you can "single shot" the camera release at faster than 3 frames per second. I don't think I can. :)

Or did your question have more to do with the number of shots you'd be able to get before the buffer size slowed you down on the 10D?

It is the buffer clear rate when in RAW that is the killer as well as the time between shutter presses (much faster with the 1D). When I shot with two 10D's I used to literally throw one down onto the top of my bag and continue with the other while the first was clearing the buffer. Murphy's law always dictated that the second camera wasn't on the right settings and you just don't have time to make alterations.

When some people compare what they can do with a 10D and the 1D they have no idea how they will react in moments like this. Having done this for 25 years I simply learned to shut off and get on with the job. Also, I shoot with both eyes open. Speak to most action photogs and they are the same, be it soccer, baseball or motorsport.

[KennyG]

Kenny,

Even so, managed this capture on the 10D (sorry on the small size, internet restrictions etc. : http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~iwatkins/Gallery/bedford-gf1.jpg

Cheers

Ian

That wasn't an SIDC day was it? I have just parted with my 310bhp STi UK. Oh the power............

[KennyG]

Damn, that is an excellent sequence. Expect to see that in a race mag one day.

It will appear, I'll announce which one and when as soon as I know. I have had calls already and it is only a matter of hours since the shoot. It is the story value (team mates and brothers) that is the hook.

[sp00g3]

So Kenny--which camera gets retired when you get your MKII??? What would the sequence look like then? :D

gsm x2

My wife will probably retire her 300D and take over the 10D leaving me with a MK-I and MK-II 1D. I don't think she will keep the grip though as it makes the camera too heavy for her.

I am not sure how the images will look with a MK-II. The MK-I has that really crisp out of the camera image that is ideal for action work and the magazines seem to like the look. The 4mp isn't a handicap for what I do, but the MK-II and the room to crop will help. Maybe for that series I could have managed a few more in the sequence, who knows.

Well anyways.. keep bringing the shots. I would like to see what you pull out of the MKII

[iwatkins]

That wasn't an SIDC day was it? I have just parted with my 310bhp STi UK. Oh the power............

Hi Kenny,

Yes, SIDC day. Well attended again.

You ditched the STi ? Oh dear, so how many times have you wished you hadn't parted with it since it has gone ? A few I bet.

I used to have several imports but I got out of that game as I don't really need a car (now work from home) and the missus didn't like them, oh, and I couldn't afford quick Scoobs *and* camera gear :lol:

Cheers

Ian

[KennyG]

You ditched the STi ? Oh dear, so how many times have you wished you hadn't parted with it since it has gone ? A few I bet.

I change cars every two years and have had Scoobs the last 7/8. They are all bought new. Had a 2000 Prodrive everything followed by my STi UK with Prodrive upgrade. I only changed last week, this time to an RX-8.

I have no sense of style.... still, it handles like my race cars with rear wheel drive, especially when you turn off the traction control :D

I had better get on and clean my gear as I have a two day shoot at Croft this weekend. You can bet the 300 is coming with me. Now where did I put that blower ........

[CyberDyneSystems]

Thanks Andy for ressurecting this thread...

As this thread here is the thread that changed how I shoot fast action.

I don't do sports often (certainly not "for real") ...but chasing birds can have it's share of high speed moments as well.

About the same time Kenny posted this I was using 1D bodies for the first time. I was quickly made aware that the 8FPS "burst" was more than I could use with any degree of precision.

8FPS in "full auto" is truly a "Spary and pary" situation


It was Kenny's post that lead me to stop relying on the "burst" speed of the camera to ANY degree.. rather I started relying solely on the speed of the shutter response and my own finger. A respons that the 1 series offers in perfection.

This has accounted for a rather dramatic change in shooting technique for me.. and allowed my timing to get MUCH better at capturing the RIGHT moment in a sequence.. rather than just random moments.

The first succesfull attempts at this tehnique payed off immediately.. it was our trip to Maine to see the "Osprey Herring Massacre" of '04 :mrgreen:

I found quickly that I can easily trigger at about 5FPS WHEN I want those frames.

Thanks Kenny :)

[timmyquest]

The more i read, the more i must just get the 1D... :cry:

Anyone wana sell me one in a few months 8)

[cmM]

Awesome shots Kenny.

Brothers?
LMAO !! :lol:

I think he did it on purpose :P

[friscomgm]

Fantastic shots Kenny. In my own use of 300D for motorsports I've found that it is entirely inadequate and should only be used if funds do not permit purchase or rental of 1DS / 1D MKII. :)

[forrest64]

I agree they are good shots

[Sketcher]

Excellent Series, great captures!.

Jeff

[KennyG]

I'll avoid this forum until the temperature drops somewhat.

Back in a few weeks maybe.

Cheers

[LittleG.]

What's happened to this thread? It appears to have been edited to such a degree that Kenny is now just talking to himself! :shock:

I am happy for personal insults and nastiness to be deleted but this has gone a bit far. Alot of comments have gone which just didnt't get personal or nasty at all! :roll:

[timmyquest]

Aww CDS, i got very poetic last night...com'on. :lol:

[CyberDyneSystems]

My apologies..

I "split" the thread... tried to move the furor over what camera could do what and seperate it from the main body of this thread.

Unfortunatley I ran into a problem when I used the "split" feature. :(

I had a case of "Bossius interuptus" (my boss walked into my office demanding my immediate attention) while I was in the middle of this operation and unfortunately hit the wrong button.

I truly regret having caused this error whcih may have lost parts of the thread alltogether.

I have been trying to peice it all back together ever since (about an hour now)

I know I lost some of it :(

My motives were good.

I was trying to salvage this forums relationship with two very important members.

It is getting harder every day to help make sure that members play nicely together in the same sandbox.

There is no reason at all that this thead should need to result in either an argument, or it's being locked.

And yet it almost seems ineveitable.

Please accept my apologies for making things more confusing in an attempt to plug the flow of sensless argument.

And please let's discontinue the argument that motivated my error.

CDS
MODERATOR

[Tom W]

My apologies..

I "split" the thread... tried to move the furor over what camera could do what and seperate it from the main body of this thread.

Unfortunatley I ran into a problem when I used the "split" feature. :(

I had a case of "Bossius interuptus" (my boss walked into my office demanding my immediate attention) while I was in the middle of this operation and unfortunately hit the wrong button.

I truly regret having caused this error whcih may have lost parts of the thread alltogether.

I have been trying to peice it all back together ever since (about an hour now)

I know I lost some of it :(

My motives were good.

I was trying to salvage this forums relationship with two very important members.

It is getting harder every day to help make sure that members play nicely together in the same sandbox.

There is no reason at all that this thead should need to result in either an argument, or it's being locked.

And yet it almost seems ineveitable.

Please accept my apologies for making things more confusing in an attempt to plug the flow of sensless argument.

And please let's discontinue the argument that motivated my error.

CDS
MODERATOR

It seems that inadvertently, much of the chaffe has been removed, while most of the wheat remains. I vote to leave it alone.

[timmyquest]

I had a case of "Bossius interuptus" (my boss walked into my office demanding my immediate attention) while I was in the middle of this operation and unfortunately hit the wrong button.


You mean pekka got you an office? I'm suprised he'd bother you during such important work.

Or wait...are you saying you have another job? That wouldnt make sense :twisted:

[cmM]

while I was in the middle of this operation and unfortunately hit the wrong button.
Yea, right :P

bad moderator.... bad bad moderator :?
You messed up now, CDS

:D j/k, I like it better like this.

(I know this post was totally unnecessary, but nonsense like this is better than stupid arguments in my opinion :wink: )

...I wonder if Tim's jokin in the next reply. I know where you live, Timmy ! :D

[timmyquest]

(I know this post was totally unnecessary, but nonsense like this is better than stupid arguments in my opinion :wink: )

Why dont you shut-up stupid face!

:twisted: :lol:

[CyberDyneSystems]

It seems that inadvertently, much of the chaffe has been removed, while most of the wheat remains. I vote to leave it alone.

The attempt was in ALL honesty.. to seperate the "chaff" into a different thread.. so that those that felt they wanted to continue the debate over 1D vs. 10D could do so in a seperate thread without "crapping on" KennyG's thread (to borrow the phrase from a post in that same thread)

Unfortunately... when I made the split I messed up,.. and it turns out that indeed the slected "chaff" posts of the thread are lost. :(

I have made this type of split before with good results.

But litearally because my boss walked in, I hit the wrong button (for those that do not see a mod's panel in there lifetime, "reply" "quote" "edit" and "delete" are all right next to eachother.

Some of you may allready realize how on RARE occasions I am known to actually "mistype" a letter or two.

It seems this time the slip up was of a slightly larger consequence. :(

CDS

[CyberDyneSystems]

(I know this post was totally unnecessary, but nonsense like this is better than stupid arguments in my opinion :wink: )

Why dont you shut-up stupid face!

:twisted: :lol:

Now this sort of childishness I can cope with!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


OOPS! :shock:

Timmy did I just delete another post? :oops: :roll:

[CyberDyneSystems]

I can do this all night..... :wink:

[timmyquest]

I can do this all night..... :wink:

I quit. And i bow down to your modding abilities. I still think a flogging is in order.

[Sketcher]

It seems that inadvertently, much of the chaffe has been removed, while most of the wheat remains.
I suddenly feel the desire to bake some bread... or read some scriptures... one of the three.

TQ is ass kissing.

Profundity is afoot.

\escapes.

[Tom W]

It seems that inadvertently, much of the chaffe has been removed, while most of the wheat remains.
I suddenly feel the desire to bake some bread... or read some scriptures... one of the three.



And for Sketcher, I present this fine recipe for Whole Wheat Bread:

http://www.virtualcities.com/ons/nh/n/nhn77021.htm

Enjoy!

[danphoto1]

First like everyone else GREAT SHOTS. I own both cameras as well and each is a tool for a different type of shot. I shoot College Sports Action and the 1D is ideal. The 10D is wonderful to get soem candid shots and that is what I used to do with it. I now have two 1d's and I use them sometimes carring tow camera with different lenses. I like the 10 D for portraits. I really see very little difference in the files from the two cameras. :D

[Andy_T]

CDS....

it looks a bit as if RFMsports has fallen from the grace of the Supreme Soviet (if you remember that time) :lol:

Best regards,
Andy

[danphoto1]

Great Shots Kenny. The 1D is still an amazing machine keep up the great work.


Dan

[garethhhhh]

Great shots Kenny!

Sorry to see that youv'e gone. Along with oeyvind's rugby 7s (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29165) shots a while ago, this series helped me make up my mind about getting an EF 300mm f2.8L USM, which I should be receiving sometime within the next month. I hope to get a 1D not long after. Truly sorry to see you go.

Gareth.