noobie on new purchase

[pedepy]

Hello everyone, first post, and all that... :P Anyway, I've been recently eyeing a series of digital cameras. Now, I've never owned any digital cameras, nor am I an expert in what makes 'em tick or even photography in general ... but its an interest, and one I may see growing when I do buy that camera.

Now, short of going nuts and buy a thousand dollar SLR, I'd still like to have something with better than average quality. Expension is also an asset to me, meaning if I can put add-ons to make a sub 500$ camera perform better, like lenses and that kinda stuff, all the better.

A couple Canon models cought my eye, mainly the A720 IS, the A650 IS, the sx100 and the G9. To be truthful, appart from a few specs difference, they seem oddly similar to me. A nikon model, the P5100, also boasted comparable specifications, a sometimes even better reviews..

After reading a bit I understand how mega pixels is far from the whole story, but even then I wouldnt feel comfortable getting anything under 7.1 now. Ive read alot of reviews saying anything about 10mp on the sensor/lens size available on most compact cameras is overkill, Id like to know what you guys think about that. In particular in the A series Ive read that alot.

Secondly, Im curious as to what all that lensmate thing is, is it adapters that enable one to use other types of lenses on a non SLR camera or are they add-ons "in themselves", that dont allow anything else to be attached.

So I guess in short here's what Im lookin fer, and I guess Id like to know what you guys think about the models I'm considering in regards to them and perhaps suggestions on other models/brands I should look at.

Id like:
Something sub 500$, maybe even 400$ ?
Above average image quality (big lens, big sensor, small noise, etcetc)
Control over how the image is taken, and raw output
7.1mpix minimal
Be able to attach stuff to augment zoom, other lenses, etc


Oh and did I forget to mention I would really enjoy to be able to take videos with that thingie? No HD required, but anything unable to do VGA or less than few minutes is automatically off my list.

I hope such a camera exists, or at least something close to it ;p

Thanks in advance for all your advice.

[NOsquid]

All compacts have small sensors, small lenses and noise. More pixels generally makes it worse. Very few compacts have RAW also. On the other hand, no current DSLRs have video.

Lensmate is an adapter with threads on the end. You can attach a teleconverter to give you more zoom, a macro lens, or different filters.

I suggest you forget about megapixels altogether. A 6MP DSLR with a good lens will put out images that no compact can touch. More pixels are useful for serious cropping and large prints but other than that, not so much.

[pedepy]

All compacts have small sensors, small lenses and noise. More pixels generally makes it worse. Very few compacts have RAW also. On the other hand, no current DSLRs have video.

Lensmate is an adapter with threads on the end. You can attach a teleconverter to give you more zoom, a macro lens, or different filters.

I suggest you forget about megapixels altogether. A 6MP DSLR with a good lens will put out images that no compact can touch. More pixels are useful for serious cropping and large prints but other than that, not so much.


Thanks for the info.

Update: I've actually seen that the Canon cameras I have mentioned do not do RAW output. This is a bummer for me. However I have found 3 panasonic models, namely the FZ18, 30 and 50 that do it, and it seems with a better sensor, a better lens, and get this, 480p HD video on two of those models :P

(feel free to move this thread to a more appropriate section as I am not really talking specifically about Canon cameras anymore)

Now, I know not to expect miracles from a non SLR camera. But this is my next question: on that scale of things, what big a difference is there between a 1/2.5" vs a 1/1.8" sensor ? Where will it be felt most ? Low light ? Macro ? High ISO ?

The FZ18 might fall a bit closer to my price range, the FZ50 being for the more serious amateur, something I am not quite ready to call myself as this is, as I mentioned, my 1st purchase... However, if you say that it will make all the difference in the world, shelling out the extra hundred bucks won't scare me too much. In other words, I don't wanna be regretting my purchase if I *do* like it alot. (Or, I could forget the 16:9 video recording and go with the FZ30, whi The FZ18 might fall a bit closer to my price range, the FZ50 being for the more serious amateur, something I am not quite ready to call myself as this is, as I mentioned, my 1st purchase... However, if you say that it will make all the difference in the world, shelling out the extra hundred bucks won't scare me too much. In other words, I don't wanna be regretting my purchase if I *do* like it alot.

On 6mp SLRs, Ive read about entry model SLRs at around the 600$ price range, with a lens. Are those the ones you're mentioning ?

Oh, and the panasonic cameras seem to have a load of different accessories to attach on the camera.ch seems to have the same sensor but has lower overall specs a thus is cheaper)

[NOsquid]

The Canon G9 you mentioned does have RAW. Between 1/2.5 and 1/1.8, I don't know. Just look at the reviews at a place like dcresource or imaging resource, dpreview.

You can get a Rebel w/kit lens for $500 from a place like Adorama. The advantages to compacts are--
_tiny
_quiet (no big shutter sound)
_big depth of field (this is also a disadvantage, can't blur backgrounds well)
_video

If those don't mean much to you then sure an SLR would be great. The biggest difference IMO is low light/high ISO. Also good focus tracking, no shutter lag. If you shoot sports or low light, indoors a lot it's something to think about.

Otherwise, take your pick of compacts. It's a competitive market, you're unlikely to get anything bad. Just comb over the reviews and the sample photos.

[mot]

G9 and G9 :)

[dirk712]

Yeah, don't hesitate to get a G9. I just got this one for my father. Here are some specs and reviews
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0708/07082005canong9.asp
Here is the deal I used, you can look up
http://www.dealstudio.com/searchdeals.php?deal_id=63784

[pedepy]

While I know that this is a Canon thread, and that I have read nothing but strongly positive reviews on the G9, where does it distinguish itself from the Panasonic FZ50 the most ?

One of the nice features I like with the FZ50 is its 16:9, zoom-enabled video mode. I know, I know.... this is getting away from photography, but I really would like to have a decent quality camera handy for family events and such but I am not ready to invest in both a 'photo camera' and a 'video camera', for now. And with the FZ50, I'm expecting to get a very decent camera for sub ISO 400 shots, while still be able to capture smooth 480p video!... I think the G9 does 1024x768 video but only at 15fps ? Or is that another model ? Regardless, 15fps is just too choppy to make up for the higher resolution.

That's partly why I am not considering SLRs for the moment. Because then no question I would buy an older 6mp SLR with a lens .. Im sure those can be found for around the 500$ price tag these days, if you look around enough.

What do you guys think?



(ps: I partly lied, I will *always* be considering an SLR ;p ... but really, I am really hoping for video, and for my 1st purchase, I can't be sure how deep I'll get into photography, so buying an SLR as a newbie feels like overkill.. but I know, they DO make much better shots .... doesnt anyone plan to make a fixed lens unit with a bigger sensor ? ).

[DStanic]

Considering you are a noobie you seem to have an understanding of what you are talking about anyways..

I would consider the S5 IS... it's cheaper than the G9 with more zoom, and still has good image quality for a P&S. You can slap on a teleconverter, closeup lens, wide angle lens for fun, and of course filters. I just traded in my Sony H5, which was direct competition to the S3 IS last year. I learned alot from it and decided it was time for DSLR. The S5 IS you can attach an external flash which is a bonus, only downside is it doesn't do RAW like the G9. But IMO if that is such an issue just get a DSLR anyways!

copy/pasted from Henrys.com:

8.0 Megapixel Digital Camera
12x Optical / 4x Digital Zoom
2.5-inch vari-angle LCD
Optical Image Stabilizer
Storage Media - SD Memory Card, SDHC Memory Card, MultiMediaCard
DIGIC III Image Processor with improved Face Detection Technology and Red-eye Correction
Face Detection AF/AE - finds multiple faces in the frame and sets the most suitable focus point when the shutter button is pressed halfway
Face Detection FE adjusts the flash based on a person?s face on the screen; exposure and flash are controlled to ensure proper illumination of both the faces and the overall scene, eliminating the common problem of darkened or overexposed faces
Hot shoe adapter for the Speedlite EX Series external flashes
Shoot easy movies with movies capable of 30 fps VGA or 60 fps QVGA
Movie Button - never having to switch to a shooting mode
22 Shooting Modes including 9 Special Scene Modes - Auto; Creative: P, Av, Tv, M, C; Image: Portrait, Landscape, Sports, Special Scene (Foliage, Snow, Beach, Fireworks, Aquarium, Indoor, Night Scene, Colour Accent, Colour Swap), Night Snapshot, Super Macro, Stitch Assist, Movie
Interfaces - Computer Interface: USB 2.0 Hi-Speed (mini-B jack), Video Out: NTSC/PAL, Audio Out: Stereo, Other: Memory card slot; direct connection to Canon CP and SELPHY Compact Photo Printers, PIXMA Photo Printers and PictBridge-compatible printers via camera's USB 2.0 Hi-Speed cable
Power Sources - 1. AA-size Alkaline Battery (x4), 2. Rechargeable AA-size NiMH Battery (x4), 3. Compact Power Adapter CA-PS700
Dimensions (W x H x D) - 4.60 x 3.15 x 3.06 in. / 117.0 x 80.0 x 77.7mm
Weight - Approx. 15.9 oz./450g (camera body only)

[n1as]

Now, short of going nuts and buy a thousand dollar SLR, I'd still like to have something with better than average quality. Expension is also an asset to me, meaning if I can put add-ons to make a sub 500$ camera perform better, like lenses and that kinda stuff, all the better.

Id like:
Something sub 500$, maybe even 400$ ?
Above average image quality (big lens, big sensor, small noise, etcetc)
Control over how the image is taken, and raw output
7.1mpix minimal
Be able to attach stuff to augment zoom, other lenses, etc


Nikon D40 kit, $500 or a tad less. As a DSLR it will give you better pics than any small sensor P&S camera. You get the image quality, lens quality, noise level and control that you're looking for. You can attach lots of stuff to it (lenses, flash, etc) to make it even better. Add the $110 flash and start taking indoor bounce flash pics for a huge improvement in your holiday family pics.

It will NOT do movies, however. And you'll have to hold it to your eye to take a pic. It is also way to big to put in a shirt pocket. It is also at the top end of your $ range.

The Canon Rebel XT or XTi will cost you more but won't give you more. Well, it will open the door to the wonderful array of Canon lenses (better choices & price than Nikon) but if you're not going to get lots of lenses then that is little advantage.

- Keith -

[Jon]

Nikon D40 kit, $500 or a tad less. As a DSLR it will give you better pics than any small sensor P&S camera. You get the image quality, lens quality, noise level and control that you're looking for. You can attach lots of stuff to it (lenses, flash, etc) to make it even better. Add the $110 flash and start taking indoor bounce flash pics for a huge improvement in your holiday family pics.

It will NOT do movies, however. And you'll have to hold it to your eye to take a pic. It is also way to big to put in a shirt pocket. It is also at the top end of your $ range.

The Canon Rebel XT or XTi will cost you more but won't give you more. Well, it will open the door to the wonderful array of Canon lenses (better choices & price than Nikon) but if you're not going to get lots of lenses then that is little advantage.

- Keith -
Actually, they will give you more. The D40 can only auto-focus with some of Nikon's current lineup of lenses. Also the basic D40 is a 6 MP camera; the Xt and XTi are 8 and 10 MP respectively,and work with all Canon's EF and EF-S lenses.

[StaceyAnnie.]

I currently own the Canon Powersho S5 IS,
it's a really great camera but I wouldn't recommend it for your average Joe.

I recommend the Sony Cybershot DSC H7.
It's a great camera & REALLY easy to use, all the while producing great images.
I bought mine for 479.
You can also add on lenses and on that jazz. : )

[Glasstream15]

Right now the G9 and S5IS are probably the 2 best compacts on the market. The G9 does have slightly the better IQ and RAW capability, although for a first time user that is just adding unneccesary steps and complication. The S5IS seems to be the most vesatile with it's 28-432 equivalent zoom. Both have full maual controls and a hotshoe for external flash. You can use Lensmate or Canon adaptors to add filters and wide/tele accesories. And prices have dropped a good bit from when I got my S5.

Comparing my S5 to my XT. The S5 will do just about everything the XT does. Just not as well. IQ, no compact will, at least in the forseeable future, equal an entry level DSLR in IQ. Almost instant on and imperceptible shutter lag for the DSLR. The G9 and S5 are fast, compared to some compacts, but not in the class of any DSLR Lots of things the bigger camera does better.

But the S5IS is with me a lot more. Smaller and a bunch more convenient. And an excellent camera, with a great video mode, time limited mostly by the card size with stereo audio and zoom while filming and stills while in video. And the reach of the lens allowed me to get very good photos of a flock of White Pelicans that were a long way off with no easy way to approach. I might look into a tele and wide adaptors for my S5 myself.

Get Panasonic TVs. Get Canon cameras.

[DStanic]

I currently own the Canon Powersho S5 IS,
it's a really great camera but I wouldn't recommend it for your average Joe.

I recommend the Sony Cybershot DSC H7.
It's a great camera & REALLY easy to use, all the while producing great images.
I bought mine for 479.
You can also add on lenses and on that jazz. : )


I don't want to put down the new H7/H9 and the cute little H3, but I just got done using my H5 (last years model) and I thought it was a piece of junk.

I had the shutter button break twice (half-shutter press didn't work). I found my old Canon S200 to have more accurate colors then the H5 did.

There are alot of cool new features on the new H-series cameras, but 2 things that are WRONG with it- larger 74mm filter size, which means the previous lenses from the H1/H2/H5 will not work with it (they were 58mm) and if you want to get UV filter or whatever good luck finding one in that size. Also they still don't have a hotshoe for external flash! I briefly played with an H9 in the store and the menu seemed alot more confusing then on the H5. At least they are now using Lithium Ion batteries cause the H5 ran on 2xAA which sucked!!!