What do I need to enjoy 20D? -planning ahead-

[Yan]

I have pre-ordered 20D from Henry's and now I am planning on what I need to enjoy 20D.
Since 20D is already a big spending for me.. I try not spend too money on accessories but.. I guess there are things I should have to enjoy this camera.
I have not yet to specify the area of specialization but.. I do not take much of landscape but more like nature photography (i.e. trees leafs bugs etc. but not animals) and once a year or so take rally photos (which I plan to rent telephoto lens).

I currently have Elan 7NE and 50mm 1.8F and 100mm 2.8F macro USM.

I am planning on getting,

- 4G hitach Micro Drive (from my friend as welcome remark to the DSLR world)
- 512MB Sandisk CF card Extreme II (as backup)
- one extra battery.
- (might buy 550EX off that friend, used)

am I missing something? maybe car charger?

I still cannot make up my mind either to get EF-S lens or not.. my friend thinks I will not use 7NE once I get 20D but.. since I am not sure how it is like to use DSLR I am not sure if that is the case or not. On top x1.6 crop factor might change a lot about what I think of these two lenses I have (which I really satisfied with, with 7NE).. and that might limit my use of 20D because I simply cannot imagine myself just shooting with 80mm and 160mm.
So should I atleast get the kit lens? or are there any good EF lens (so I can use on my 7NE as well) covers around 50mm range? (under 400USD prefered)

[PJ]

I hate to tell you this but Your the only one that can answer your question. Since your not sure if you'll be happy with what you have. Wait till you get the camera and see how it goes.

Is this just a hobby or would you like to make this into a career?
Once you decide this, you will know what equipment would possibly suit you better.

the only thing you really need to take pictures and have fun is just a camera, lens, and memorycard. We will always want more more more but thats just the nature of the beast.

[Yan]

Thanks PJ for your reply.

ya you are absolutely right.. I am the only one can decide.. but need some help from some people with knowledge and experience to fill in some (a lot of) holes I have in my knowledge and experience. (i.e. from some people with experience with moving from film to DSLR and wanna know how they have dealt with the different crop factor on the same lens etc..)

I am planning to do this as a hobby.. have an occupation called mathematian ahead of my life.. :shock:

[DaveG]

I have pre-ordered 20D from Henry's and now I am planning on what I need to enjoy 20D.
Since 20D is already a big spending for me.. I try not spend too money on accessories but.. I guess there are things I should have to enjoy this camera.
I have not yet to specify the area of specialization but.. I do not take much of landscape but more like nature photography (i.e. trees leafs bugs etc. but not animals) and once a year or so take rally photos (which I plan to rent telephoto lens).

I currently have Elan 7NE and 50mm 1.8F and 100mm 2.8F macro USM.

I am planning on getting,

- 4G hitach Micro Drive (from my friend as welcome remark to the DSLR world)
- 512MB Sandisk CF card Extreme II (as backup)
- one extra battery.
- (might buy 550EX off that friend, used)

am I missing something? maybe car charger?

I still cannot make up my mind either to get EF-S lens or not.. my friend thinks I will not use 7NE once I get 20D but.. since I am not sure how it is like to use DSLR I am not sure if that is the case or not. On top x1.6 crop factor might change a lot about what I think of these two lenses I have (which I really satisfied with, with 7NE).. and that might limit my use of 20D because I simply cannot imagine myself just shooting with 80mm and 160mm.
So should I atleast get the kit lens? or are there any good EF lens (so I can use on my 7NE as well) covers around 50mm range? (under 400USD prefered)

I'd start by not using the microdrive. That one has an awsome capacity but microdrives are little hard drives with all their potential for disaster. Hey if he's giving it to you then that's fine, but a solid state CF card will be better.

You might want to think about getting the kit lens at the same time you buy the 20D. They are almost giving it away and I see from your current lens lineup that you have no wide angle - or even normal - focal length. You'll never get this lens more cheaply than if you buy it with the camera.

I don't know about the replacement or substitution policy with Canon but I wonder how much more the USM version of the kit lens is going to be. If it's not a lot of money the USM would be a btter choice since it will focus faster, and it'll be easier on your battery consumption since USM doesn't have to move as much mass as non-USM. I also suspect - but don't know for sure - that the USM version offers instant manual focus, while the other version doesn't.

Two final, and perhaps most important points. First you should get Photoshop CS. It offers a very good RAW converter and of course it's state of the art for image manipulation. Getting a great shot with your new 20D is only the beginning of the process and CS will help you get to the end. Second, look around and find a good evening course on Photoshop CS. Far too many people - me included - used their Photoshop program like a VCR, in so far as we used 5% of its capabilities 99% of the time. A systematic approach to anything is better than picking it up in a haphazard sort of way. I also found that getting that "one" question answered in a timely way, made all the difference.

[Yan]

Thanks DaveG,

Very nice ideas... specially about Photoshop CS and course.. (I will look into them asap)
Ya the fact I have no winde angle makes me bit worried about it.. so you suggest the kit lens (+USM),, just wondering if there is any EF lens (not EF-S) which can replace the kit lens.. (I understand it will be much more expensive than the kit lens) I was looking at 17-40 4L earlier (when I did not have a plan to get 20D) but now considering saving up for 20D I cannot afford that lens.

considring it is digital camera, for example getting 20mm single focullength lens (is it called "prime"??) and.. whenever needed (between 20mm-50mm x1.6) "crop it", does this work??

sorry for the stome of newbe questions...

[Vegas Poboy]

From my experience I would wait until I purchase the camera and base my lense purchases on intended use get to know your equipment it can save you money in the long run.
Some sort of carring case and a good sturdy tripod.
Must have a flash, the 550ex is not a bad flash but you must learn to use it's manual features.
I don't care about the Microdrives that much go for 2 -512 cards and grow from there it will save money upfront.
If you can't go & take a PS class then purchase a book by Scott Kelly or Ben Willmore they're two of the best in usung PS & have simple step by step books.
Again once you decide on which way your hobby is going go for the lense & shutter release cable.
Good Luck & Have fun

[Yan]

Thanks VP
ya I guess.. nothing wrong with waiting for the camera to comein and findout. what I need.
thanks for the info about good books on Photoshop CS

and.. I guess I need to learn more about the flash... so 550EX's auto feature isn't great or something?? maybe I should pass 550EX this time.

[DaveG]

Thanks DaveG,

Very nice ideas... specially about Photoshop CS and course.. (I will look into them asap)
Ya the fact I have no winde angle makes me bit worried about it.. so you suggest the kit lens (+USM),, just wondering if there is any EF lens (not EF-S) which can replace the kit lens.. (I understand it will be much more expensive than the kit lens) I was looking at 17-40 4L earlier (when I did not have a plan to get 20D) but now considering saving up for 20D I cannot afford that lens.

considring it is digital camera, for example getting 20mm single focullength lens (is it called "prime"??) and.. whenever needed (between 20mm-50mm x1.6) "crop it", does this work??

sorry for the stome of newbe questions...

I got the 24-85 f3.5-4.5 as my first lens for my 10D. It goes from moderate wide to moderate tele, and is still a lens that I use frequently. There is potential problem if you get the EF-S lenses as an upgrade to Mark II or better will require an expensive lens repurchase. Yet my next buy will be the 20D and I'm thinking that the 10-22 wouldn't be that far behind that.

I just don't see buying a Mark II within the next couple of years, so it looks like 1.6 and I are going to become close friends. Maybe I should just bow to the inevitable and get a 16-35 capability out of the 20D, rather than wishing for a lens that doesn't exist, I couldn't afford, and is unlikely to ever be made.

You could get the 20mm prime lens. But it's not that wide and it's not that cheap. I wish that Canon would make a 10mm f4 EF. THAT would be a great lens for what I do. I'd suggest a zoom for you in any case.

[JZaun]

I agree with a previous answer, use the micro drive as a back up and change your 512 for a 1 gig CF. The 20D at 8 mpx will eat up a 512 real quick :) Then study lens, sorry but you will get a bunch :) there isn't one that will work for every thing you are going to want to shoot pics of, there is the macro, potriat, distance, action and it goes on and on. If you can afford it start with (L) glass but there are a lot of great non (L) glass lens out there. the canon 50mm f1.8, the canon 100mm f2.8 macro and others wow you are just getting started.. Have fun...

By the way you will never look back. Once you start with a DSLR you are hooked,, kinda like morphine :D :D you gonna love it.

JZ

[Jesper]

You will most likely get a "light" version of Photoshop, Photoshop Elements 2.0, with your 20D.

PS Elements 2.0 is a very nice program, but the full version Photoshop CS is much more powerful. Note that it is an expensive piece of software, but Adobe has a special offer to upgrade from PS Elements to PS CS for $299 (only valid in the USA and Canada):

http://store.adobe.com/store/products/special.jhtml?id=catCanon

The current version of Adobe Camera Raw, which is the plug-in included with Photoshop CS to load RAW images, does not support the 20D yet. There will probably be an update to Camera Raw available for download on Adobe's website to add support for the 20D.

[MrChad]

I'd just like to offer a suggestion. Have you considered getting a Rebel-300D? Read me out here.

I too shoot film still (mine's an Elan 7N) and I've been agonizing over what's my best choice for going digital. film scanner or digital body?

I have the 28-105mm and the 75-300mm IS lens. Looking at getting a the 50mm f1.4, next.

A good friend of mine has a Digital Rebel and uses it with the older 28-70L glass lens. WOW, his L glass lens makes it look as if the digital images are from an even higher resolution camera. Most of his gear is from carry over from his Elan 7E. With the same settings on the camera, L glass images are nearly double the size files vs. his other glass, the L glass just captures so much more light.

Your posts makes me think you primarily shoot nature stills? How often and how big do you make your prints? You might find that an L glass zoom like the 24-70 and 300D would yield even better pictures for you then the 20D and your current lenses.

I don't much care for the build of the 300D myself, but when I look at the price of the 20D (which isn't even out yet, so it should drop some in a year or so) I find that I'm much more tempted to buy a 300D and more glass then the more pro-body at this stage with my gear. The hack makes this even more so.

I know the 300D is only a 6.3mp sensor vs. the 20D at 8.2megapixels, but the size of files and quality of the L glass was so dramatic, I have to think an L glass lens on the 300D may yield better quality pics then the 20D with normal canon lenses of the same focal lenght, all this assumes the skill of the eye behind both gear is the same.

I must also admit my friend shoots exclusively in the highest JPEG format to maximize the number of shots he can get on his CF cards. So I can't comment if RAW files share the same degree of difference with L glass lenses, but I'd imagine it's fairly the same situation.

[Headcase650]

Doesnt the 20D save the same type of raw format as the 1DmkII. If it does then shouldnt the photoshop raw plug-in recognize the raw files from the 20D.

[Andy_T]

Yan,

welcome to the forum!

I think you will be very happy with the camera.
Some thoughts:

- Get the kit lens.
It's offered at an incredible price and the only way to get wide angle photography cheap on the 20D. If you ever decide to sell the 20D, it might be more valuable as a bundle with the kit lens.

- Photoshop LE (limited edition) should be included with the camera.
I agree that it is indispensable to have a good postprocessing program with any Canon digital camera, as this is the only way to get the best out of the camera. However, if you do not need all the functionality of the CS version immediately, I'd try out if you get along with LE.

- Your existing lenses should work nicely on the 20D
Both the 50/1.8 and the 100 macro/2.8 are supposed to be very good lenses that handle very nicely on Canon digital cameras. That has to be pointed out because many lenses that perform o.k. on Canon's film body (e.g. the 'consumer' zoom lenses) do not give optimal results on the digital bodies.
Try them out and then decide which additional lenses you might need. If you like the 1.8/50 a lot on your Elan and can't be without a normal prime lens, than the 2.0/35 might be a lens to look into.

Best regards,
Andy

[Yan]

Thank you everyone for the warm welcome and good advices.

as many of you have suggested.. kit lens..
I checked the price difference it was 200CND = 150USD.. so for 17-55 does that give away price? how is it optical performance? As I have stated.. my main forcus is not landscape type of photos.. maybe I can just have a regular lens for the range of 17-55 when I go for travel or take a birthday party photo etc.

I personally think 50mm isn't the focul length I like.. it is too short for portlait but too long for photo of sky (when some cool clouds are out there) so I might like it with x1.6 I guess my concern for the crop factor was more like.. just having 50mm and 100mm lens might limit my subject of photography toomuch.. (since I still "not sure what to take" stage). So I think kit lens can solve this problem cheaply and if I decide to focus in this range.. there always 17-40L :P

So Compact Flash and not microdrive.. is Sandisk Extreme II sounds ok? mmm two 512MB or 1GB...

I think that 300D idea makes a lot of sense too.. but.. 5fps is very needed for me.. even though I only do couple times a year.. I shoot motorsports.. so.. oh I have to go to take some rally-related photos on monday.. with 70-200 2.8L IS (rented) hope I will not fall in Love with L..

[Andy_T]

Thank you everyone for the warm welcome and good advices.

Well, that's what this forum is for, after all :p


So I think kit lens can solve this problem cheaply and if I decide to focus in this range.. there always 17-40L :P


Look here for some kind of comparison: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=40547

But I think the kit lens is 18-55mm, and not 17-55 mm.

The new 17-85 IS lens might be interesting because of image stabilization, but it also is a bit more expensive (600$).


So Compact Flash and not microdrive.. is Sandisk Extreme II sounds ok? mmm two 512MB or 1GB...


You said that you'll shoot motorsports ... so maybe you won't go the RAW way ... but if you do, I'd estimate you'll only get some 70 shots on the 512 MB CF card.

Best regards,
Andy

[ScottGregory]

Yan, I would agree you should stick with the 512 or 1G cards as well. Putting all your money into one big card that might fail at some point does not make sense to me.
Take a look at the new wideangle for the 20D when it comes out as well. I currently use the 17-40 on a 10D and I have to say it takes more pics than the other lenses I have. And it is very sharp!
When have they told you the 10D will be in at Henrys?

Scott Gregory