Ahhhh I'm getting sucked into the world of rangefinders!

[mknawabi]

I always look at the blog of severin koller (severinkoller.blogspot.com) and I absolutely LOVE all the street shots he takes with his leica M6. Well I think I'd have to be crazy to justify buying an M6 at the moment, and then I came upon the beautiful Bessa R series. I figure the R4A is the one for me because I don't mind the battery at all and would like the AE feature.

So the R4a is about 660$ + tax. No biggie compared to 1700$ish for an M6.

Anyway, I figure if I get a cheaper body, I should get some good glass, so I looked at the Leica Summicron 50mm f/2. I spent all night reading up on the different versions, about the 6bit coding (which I apparently don't need because I'm not shooting with a digital) and all that Jazz. These lenses are freaking expensive! I figure if I do end up buying one of these lenses I should do the smart thing and get an EOS adapter (woot woot!) This lens is going to cost me anywhere from 500$ (If I get lucky) to 900$ if i decide to just go with the newest version (which apparently has killer killer killer contrast.)

Anyway, some pictures of my future money sink :(:

[mknawabi]

Here's the leica summicron f/2 on a 5D:

http://www.steveunsworth.co.uk/Oneoffs/013.jpg

It's freaking beautiful

[Moppie]

Quick question, what will range finder do that say a Canon G9 won't?
Other than need film of course :)

[rhys]

Leica glass is about the best in the world by reputation.

If you want a Leica body cheap though, look for the Epson RD-1.

[oic929]

Looks great on the 5d. Does it focus thru to infinity?
I've also got a Bessa R3A, but still waiting for my 40mm summicron to arrive :evil:

[mknawabi]

Quick question, what will range finder do that say a Canon G9 won't?
Other than need film of course :)


A rangefinder is the alternative to an SLR, it doesn't require a mirror but the lenses you can use are pretty limited to the type of body you use.

http://licm.org.uk/livingImage/Rangefinder-Camera.html

[M. Valdemar]

Look for a Leitz 40mm f2 Summicron originally made for the Leica CL, or a 40mm Minolta f2 originally made for the Minolta CLE. (exact same lens, M mount).

About $300 on eBay. Highest quality, Summicron formula, works perfectly on Bessa or M6.

[mknawabi]

The r4a doesn't have the 40mm framelines, only 21/35, 28, or 25/50. I do think I'm going to invest in a 21 and a cron 50 (I guess im pretty set, unless I get a Nokton)

[bieber]

What I'd really like to see is a full-frame CMOS sensor in a rangefinder camera, like in the old days when they could turn out the same image quality as their bigger counterparts. Until I see that happen, the interchangeable lenses are the only real advantage I see over a high-end compact digital, and not enough, IMO, to justify their purchase over one.

[mknawabi]

I dont know, im happy most rangefinders are film. Going back to basics really pushes you to put your all into composition. Each photo means more to you as well, is what I feel.

I guess im just have a little love affair with film

[condyk]

Going back to basics really pushes you to put your all into composition. Each photo means more to you as well, is what I feel. I guess im just have a little love affair with film

I absolutely agree with the first statement but not the second. You can have the best of both worlds. Avoiding the spray and pray approach to photography is a mental discipline and a confidence in your eye and craft and so no need to limit yourself to film. I have three wonderful old Russian rangefinders, Leica copies, and never use any of them because of the film side. Too much trouble.

[mknawabi]

send em on over this way :(

[cdifoto]

I absolutely agree with the first statement but not the second. You can have the best of both worlds. Avoiding the spray and pray approach to photography is a mental discipline and a confidence in your eye and craft and so no need to limit yourself to film. I have three wonderful old Russian rangefinders, Leica copies, and never use any of them because of the film side. Too much trouble.

I agree with this. I can just tell myself to shoot slower with the 10D or 1D II. I bought a Pentax thinking it'd force me into that old school mentality, but all it did was waste some cash. I've put maybe 5 rolls through it since buying it early this year. Film is a royal pain in the ass for a snapshooter without his/her own darkroom.

I find that slapping one of the M42 lenses I have on a digital body does more for me than the Pentax Spotty can. As focus takes longer, I can re-evaluate my composition and determine whether it's the best one for the shot.

I could see the quietness of a digital rangefinder being beneficial during a wedding ceremony, but I haven't had anyone complain about the SLR mirror thus far anyway.

[condyk]

I'm a huge Leica fan and also Zeiss. Both produce shots different to the super sharp efforts we can get with the bets Canon stuff. Evocative is the bets word to describe them. A 30D used manual with split focus screen and a 35mm 2.4 Zeiss is wonderful. Gives the feel, keeps things slow but has the digital benefits. Be great to own one of those Leica's tho ;-) I just know I personally wouldn't give it the use becuase I have tried it. I just got a G9 for street work because I have found that I don't want to carry my DSLR gear around and people ignore P&S's.

[M. Valdemar]

It doesn't matter, the 35mm frame line is perfect for all intents and purposes. You can file the lens mount a fraction of a millimeter and it will bring up the proper frame on M Leicas.


The r4a doesn't have the 40mm framelines, only 21/35, 28, or 25/50. I do think I'm going to invest in a 21 and a cron 50 (I guess im pretty set, unless I get a Nokton)

[Karl C]

I'm a huge Leica fan and also Zeiss. Both produce shots different to the super sharp efforts we can get with the bets Canon stuff. Evocative is the bets word to describe them. A 30D used manual with split focus screen and a 35mm 2.4 Zeiss is wonderful. Gives the feel, keeps things slow but has the digital benefits. Be great to own one of those Leica's tho ;-) I just know I personally wouldn't give it the use becuase I have tried it. I just got a G9 for street work because I have found that I don't want to carry my DSLR gear around and people ignore P&S's.

If you had the money, would you buy an M8?

[condyk]

:lol::lol: That's a good question. I was a poor kid so i have always had a strong sense of 'decent value' and so my first thought is no. But then if i add up what my Current gear is worth then a Leica and a couple of lenses would be less than that. So, to say 'no' would be silly on cost alone. I suppose for me I would have to shoot a few days with it and see if it feels right. It's not all about IQ but that would need to be exceptional. I like DSLR's and have good gear already. If I won the lottery I think my spends would still be 'modest' ... just get what I need, which I am pretty close to already. I appreciate Leica is part brand and part tool. My current gear I suppose is more flexible for street AND wildlife shooting so less hassle. So ... I suppose I dunno :lol:

[mknawabi]

Oh, I meant I would appreciate the shot more just because of the sheer amount of work put into it. (Developing, scanning, etc)

My favorite film is mostly Tri-X, so I think i'll be doing at-home developing. Doesn't sound too hard, and I want to gain experience and eventually move onto C-41

[Moppie]

A rangefinder is the alternative to an SLR, it doesn't require a mirror but the lenses you can use are pretty limited to the type of body you use.

http://licm.org.uk/livingImage/Rangefinder-Camera.html


I'm well aware of what a Range finder does, and how it works, which is eaxctly why I asked the question.

What does a Range Finder do that a really high end compact won't?
The interchangable lenses make a good argument, but they seem to cover roughly the same range as the fixed zoom on most compacts any way.

[mknawabi]

"Since there is no minimal distance between rear lens element and shutter, the RF lenses are constructed without bulky retrofocus design, resulting is significant advantages in optical quality of wide angle – normal lenses at full-medium apertures. Meaning of this? You can shoot with f/2.0 and results will be barely distinctguishable from those taken at f/5.6"
- http://www.photozone.de/3Technology/camtec2.htm

^ This one is what really does it for me. A photo taken at f/2 is as sharp as one stopped down to f/5.6? That's pretty amazing. I have yet to see a "really high end compact" give me the quality/resolution of a digital SLR, let alone film.

Full frame sensor, although it is 35mm film based (Digital rangefinders don't have this advantage)


However, the number of advantages of a rangefinder are slim when comparing it to a high-end compact..The G9 you said? It seems as if the rangefinder is more of an enthusiasts camera, especially when dealing with film. This is exactly why I want to experiment with them.

[Quad]

I'm well aware of what a Range finder does, and how it works, which is eaxctly why I asked the question.

What does a Range Finder do that a really high end compact won't?
The interchangable lenses make a good argument, but they seem to cover roughly the same range as the fixed zoom on most compacts any way.


I would have to say speed. For street work you can have the lens pre-focused raise it to your eye, frame the shot and release the shutter in a split second. The bright line range finder is nice as can see what is just outside the frame and thus predict the precise moment something is going to enter the frame. The point and shoot has too much point "wait a bit for focus" and shoot.

On value all I can say it is expensive but I paid about $1700 for my M4-2 a 35 and a 90 lens as I recall. It all still works and I could get what I paid out of it and probably a good interest rate as well. You have to judge if it provides you with value though. After a year to two use you are likely to not recoup your cost even. That is not taking into account the value of any photo taken with it but many cameras take photos.

[Moppie]

I have yet to see a "really high end compact" give me the quality/resolution of a digital SLR, let alone film.


Yes, this is a very good point. There is nothing else that will let you shoot that wide open, with a wide angle lens, and get the same optical quality in such a compact form factor.



However, the number of advantages of a rangefinder are slim when comparing it to a high-end compact..The G9 you said? It seems as if the rangefinder is more of an enthusiasts camera, especially when dealing with film. This is exactly why I want to experiment with them.


I think as a purely technical argument you would have to give a lot of weight to something like the G9. But, there seems to be a very strong emotive reason for wanting to use a range finder. It is obvisouly one of those things were form is just as important as function, something that a G9 would have a hard time competing with.

[Karl C]

It seems most compacts suffer from noise issues when ISO is higher than 200. I understand the technical reasons for the issue but I would have difficulty accepting the noise. I have a higher expectation having owned a 20D and 30D.

I looked at used M4's on KEH.com and, man, are they pricey! I believe they were in the $1500 range, not including a lens. I believe KEH had a 35 f2.0 lens that was in the $1700 range.

But, it'd be fun to play with it. Even play with an M8.

Unfortunately, I haven't figured out how to pay for gear using Monopoly money!

:lol:

[rhys]

It seems most compacts suffer from noise issues when ISO is higher than 200. I understand the technical reasons for the issue but I would have difficulty accepting the noise. I have a higher expectation having owned a 20D and 30D.

I looked at used M4's on KEH.com and, man, are they pricey! I believe they were in the $1500 range, not including a lens. I believe KEH had a 35 f2.0 lens that was in the $1700 range.

But, it'd be fun to play with it. Even play with an M8.

Unfortunately, I haven't figured out how to pay for gear using Monopoly money!

:lol:

I remember Leica's 200mm lens that cost a princely $20,000 back a few years ago.