580EX and AB800 studio setup

[tjmaroney]

I've got a 580EX speedlite and an AB800 strobe with large softbox. My studio portraiture "plan" is to use the 580 as either a hair or backlight and to use it to optically trigger my AB800 (I use an ST-E2 to trigger the 580). Although I haven't yet tried it (as my "studio" is still under major renovation), I think this should work as long as I set the 580 on manual (so there is no preflash to trip the AB800 too early). Does anyone else have a similar setup or experience with such a setup? I tried searching this forum, but could get decent results. If there's a thread that already details this, please post link.

Also, would it be a good plan to look for additional used speedlites (i.e. 580, 430, etc.) to add additional lights to this setup? Perhaps the ideal solution would be an additional AB light, but I was thinking a used speedlite would be more economical (and I could still trigger them via ST-E2, with all speedlites set to the same channel). Again, anyone have any experience or advice for such a setup?

Thanks!

Cheers,

T.J.

[bobbyz]

If you need to mix studio lights and flash, why spend money on something like 580ex? For that price get the AB, don't get it "speedlight will be more economical". Now if you were talking cheaper $100 flash then I agree.

[form]

I'm in the same situation, except I have a b1600 coming with a 60" umbrella and no st-e2 for wireless firing of the 580ex. I am thinking of bouncing the 580ex off walls or other objects.

If I wanted to use the 580ex off camera, I would probably buy an off camera shoe cord and extend it by means of a mini-din 6-pin extension cord and some electrical surgery.

[transcend]

Your white balance will be all over the map using a strobe and an AB, just so you know.

[Curtis N]

Your white balance will be all over the map using a strobe and an AB, just so you know.The difference in color temp between an Alienbees unit and a battery-powered flash unit isn't likely to be great enough to notice. And if the battery-powered unit is used as a background or hair light, it really won't be anything to worry about.

To the OP: I have only two concerns with the scenario you describe. First, if the 580EX is located behind the subject with no line-of-sight to the ST-E2, will there be a possible communication problem? (I don't know. I don't have an ST-E2.)

Second, the slave sensors on the Alienbees will react to infrared light. I'm concerned the communication signals from the ST-E2 might fire the B800 prematurely.

[FlashZebra]

Go all manual in some manner.

Run a cord to the 580EX.

or

Put the 580EX on some king of radio slave (Pocket Wizard, Skyport, inexpensive 16 channel raio slave set).

Use the optical slave in the AB unit triggered by the flash from the 580EX above.

Enjoy! Lon

[transcend]

The difference in color temp between an Alienbees unit and a battery-powered flash unit isn't likely to be great enough to notice. And if the battery-powered unit is used as a background or hair light, it really won't be anything to worry about.

To the OP: I have only two concerns with the scenario you describe. First, if the 580EX is located behind the subject with no line-of-sight to the ST-E2, will there be a possible communication problem? (I don't know. I don't have an ST-E2.)

Second, the slave sensors on the Alienbees will react to infrared light. I'm concerned the communication signals from the ST-E2 might fire the B800 prematurely.

It's actually been pretty big in my experience. Bees sit around 5250k and an electronic flash is usually closer to 6200k. That's a fairly decent difference. The flashes tend to look pink compared to the bees.

[tjmaroney]

sorry if i wasn't clear in my OP. i already have the ST-E2 to trigger the 580. I'd imagine clamping it to the cross bar on the backdrop or something, but kind of upside-down (so the big ir window is facing in the direction of the camera). in my short experience with the transmitter so far, it seems to pickup indoors no problem (bouncing off walls i guess).

regarding the WB issue. couldn't i simply shoot a grey card and do a custom WB?

my only concern so far is the IR sensitivity of the AB as brought up by Curtis N. hmmm. that could be a problem. i also have a long pc sync cord, so i could connect that to the AB (i think if there's a plug in the AB, the optical sensors are turned off). does the pc sync fire in close enough sync with the speedlite?

[FlashZebra]

sorry if i wasn't clear in my OP. i already have the ST-E2 to trigger the 580. I'd imagine clamping it to the cross bar on the backdrop or something, but kind of upside-down (so the big ir window is facing in the direction of the camera). in my short experience with the transmitter so far, it seems to pickup indoors no problem (bouncing off walls i guess).

regarding the WB issue. couldn't i simply shoot a grey card and do a custom WB?

my only concern so far is the IR sensitivity of the AB as brought up by Curtis N. hmmm. that could be a problem. i also have a long pc sync cord, so i could connect that to the AB (i think if there's a plug in the AB, the optical sensors are turned off). does the pc sync fire in close enough sync with the speedlite?
Use the long cord to the 580EX and fire the AB unit(s) via the built in optical slave.

All you would need would be a hotshoe to miniphone jack adapter to use the AB cord you already have.

The preflash from the ST-2E will fire the AB to early, even if it is infrared. The optical slave in the AB unit will react to infrared in addition to visible light. Forget the ST-2E.

Enjoy! Lon

[Curtis N]

It's actually been pretty big in my experience. Bees sit around 5250k and an electronic flash is usually closer to 6200k. That's a fairly decent difference. The flashes tend to look pink compared to the bees.Regarding the white balance issue in general, there are many factors that can affect it. The color temp can change with the power output of both studio strobes and battery flash units. Umbrellas, softboxes and reflectors can affect it.

There are times when consistent color temp between light sources is essential, and times when it's a minimal concern. Consistent color temp is one of the selling points of the more expensive studio systems. Gels can be used to even things out when necessary.

[form]

They mean the white balance will be different between strobe and hot shoe flash, meaning when one has good white balance in the exposure, the other will not.

I assumed that since both are close to daylight color temp the difference wouldn't be enough to matter. I suppose I'll have to reconsider and see if I can cool down the speedlite if I need to.

[transcend]

Regarding the white balance issue in general, there are many factors that can affect it. The color temp can change with the power output of both studio strobes and battery flash units. Umbrellas, softboxes and reflectors can affect it.

There are times when consistent color temp between light sources is essential, and times when it's a minimal concern. Consistent color temp is one of the selling points of the more expensive studio systems. Gels can be used to even things out when necessary.

I'm perfectly aware as to what can change WB and how to use studio lighting. When you fire both at full power into a white piece of seamless, there is a noticeable difference.

Consistent color temp is always a concern when the images are paying your rent.

[Curtis N]

Consistent color temp is always a concern when the images are paying your rent.I rather doubt the OP is in that situation. He can correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I'm not trying to lecture anyone here. I'm trying to explain a concept to 124,000 people who might read this thread. Truth be told, professional photographers all over the world mix light sources in many situations. Battery powered flash units and studio strobes are used together quite often.

Below are two shots of white seamless paper. One is illuminated with an Alienbees B1600 at full power. The other is illuminated with a 580EX II Speedlite at full power. I tried to get the exposure as close as possible but it's not perfect. Both were converted from RAW using the same color temp and tint settings. Hopefully this will give the OP a reference for determining the suitability of using these two types of light sources together. But as I pointed out before, there are other factors that will affect things more in the real world.

[tjmaroney]

wow. thanks for the great responses and information. looks like i'll have some playing/testing/learning to do over the next while. will probably have to seriously consider another AB in the not too distant future. thanks everyone. And thanks to Curtis N. for taking the time to prepare/post such useful information. much appreciated.