What fully manual flash will work for the rebel?

[DocFrankenstein]

Which one would you recommend? Ideally it would have a tilt/swivel head and a zoom...

[DocFrankenstein]

I was thinking of something more simple (cheaper)

Is there a vivitar or some other flash that's gonna do the same? I don't need 550's communication with the camera, different sensors... etc

I want a capacitor attached to a bulb... basically. Is there such thing?

[timmyquest]

I was thinking of something more simple (cheaper)

Is there a vivitar or some other flash that's gonna do the same? I don't need 550's communication with the camera, different sensors... etc

I want a capacitor attached to a bulb... basically. Is there such thing?

I'd verify this first, but i think just so long as the flash fits in your shoe and has at least the center contact (so it knows WHEN to fire) any flash that falls within the cameras voltage limits will work.

[scottbergerphoto]

Just remember that when you use a non Canon flash, the maximum trigger voltage across the PC or hotshoe circuit doesn't exceed 6 volts or you may need to replace your shutter. The PC and Hot Shoe circuits on Canon cameras are connected and connected to the shutter. If you don't know what the flash trigger voltage is, use a Wein Safe Sync.
(Some 1 Series bodies can handle higher voltages, but Canon doesn't advertise which ones and how much they can handle.)
Regards,
Scott

[DocFrankenstein]

Sooo...

Any flash... :? Do you have some specidific brand/model in mind?

Please

[CyberDyneSystems]

Sooo...

Any flash... :? Do you have some specidific brand/model in mind?

Please


I don't think Scott's post says any flash... :?

[eric1]

if your looking for inexpensive, you might want to check out Sunpak. i think they have some Canon compatable flashes around $100-150. make sure you heed Scott's warning.

[Harry Settle]

I got curious and did a google search on just the 283, cause it's such a workhorse, and the information is not only sketchy, it's downright scary. I wouldn't touch anything after this unless it said specificaly that it was compatible with Canon, or use the Safe sync.

[robertwgross]

There are two issues at play here.

One is to find a flash that will function with the camera.

One is to find a flash that will not harm the camera due to high trigger voltage.

If you have access to a flash unit, like at a store, you might turn it on and let the unit "wind up" until its ready light is on. Then put a DC voltmeter across the contacts (where it would plug into the camera PC connector). If you see something like 5-6 volts, then it is safe. If you see something bigger, like 170 volts, avoid it totally.

---Bob Gross---

[Bruce Foreman]

Which one would you recommend? Ideally it would have a tilt/swivel head and a zoom...

1) Get the Wein Safe-Sync. Its a hotshoe adapter that uses only the center and ground contacts but isolates the camera from anything over 6 volts. Has both PC contacts and hot shoe contacts for your flash. You'll need it somewhere down the line anyway. Mine cost $65 in a camera shop, B&H has it for $55 I believe.

2) Then you can safely use pretty much any non dedicated non Canon flash. I use "leftover" Vivitar 283 and 285 flash I should've thrown out 15 years ago with my Digital Rebel and the Thyristor auto modes work quite well.

I also picked up a SunPak PZ40X dedicated for Canon that works well with the camera's automatics but haven't had a chance to use it much.

Bruce Foreman

[DocFrankenstein]

Thank you Bruce. What's the difference between dedicated and non-dedicated flash?

I don't think Scott's post says any flash...
I know, I didn't mean to say that Scott said that I could use any flash. Sorry if it gives that impression.

I just wanted to ask if you can suggest a specific model, which should suit that purpose.

It's just that I am really confused with flash photography and trying a few flashes at the shop made me even more confused. :?

Guys... tell me if the whole idea of a manual flash sounds bogus. Am I crazy uninformed noob? Will I be able to get some decent pics after I get used to it? :?

[DocFrankenstein]

Vivitar 285 looks nice. From the pic it seems like it has a metal body. Is that true? Too bad there's no swivel head, but it has the zoom though. :D

I also looked at Sunpak 120J, but with the shoe adapter it would cost me almost as much as the 550 EX. I don't mind the size though.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=52785&is=REG

[robertwgross]

Doc, you are responding to yourself now. That isn't healthy.

Time to take a break from the computer.

---Bob Gross---

[Andy_T]

Doc, you are responding to yourself now. That isn't healthy.

Time to take a break from the computer.

---Bob Gross---

:lol::lol::lol:

Doc,

how much do you want to spend?

I use a Metz MZ42-II on my G2, because I happened to have it leftover form my N****n outfit.

It works nicely on the G2, BUT ... it is totally manual then.

And I'm not only talking about the flash being manual, but as the camera doesn't know the flash fires, it will not select a high shutter speed or small aperture ... resulting in overexposed pictures.

So when I'm photographing some kind of venue where the tilt ability comes handy (e.g. a conference or party), I set the camera to manual everything (e.g. at 1/125, f/5.6 and ISO 50) and test with the distance to the ceiling if the shots come out right.

It's a bit of a pain in the a** for getting 'fast and spontaneous' shots.

Mark you ... this *might* also be a result of using a less-than-optimal adapter that links the Metz to the G2. But when I bought the adapter, the photography store did not have the unit suggested by Metz in store, and the salesrep said that the other version would be 'exactly the same'. And I wanted it badly, so I didn't want to wait (stupid me :roll: )

So if I were you, I'd also look at the dedicated Sigma flash units. They are cheaper than Canon's units but should have much of the functionality.

Best regards,
Andy

[DocFrankenstein]

Doc,

how much do you want to spend?
The less the better. I'd be ok settling for what you describe:

I use a Metz MZ42-II on my G2, because I happened to have it leftover form my N****n outfit.

It works nicely on the G2, BUT ... it is totally manual then.

And I'm not only talking about the flash being manual, but as the camera doesn't know the flash fires, it will not select a high shutter speed or small aperture ... resulting in overexposed pictures.

So when I'm photographing some kind of venue where the tilt ability comes handy (e.g. a conference or party), I set the camera to manual everything (e.g. at 1/125, f/5.6 and ISO 50) and test with the distance to the ceiling if the shots come out right.

It's a bit of a pain in the a** for getting 'fast and spontaneous' shots.

[scottbergerphoto]

Thank you Bruce. What's the difference between dedicated and non-dedicated flash?


A dedicated flash will operate in the camera's computer controlled modes like ETTL. If it isn't dedicated, you are limited to Manual Flash Mode or Auto Mode if the flash has it's own thyristor to control flash output.
Regards,
Scott

[DocFrankenstein]

great. What's does this thysistor do and how does it work? Where can I read about it?

Does vivitar... 285 has this thysistor?

[scottbergerphoto]

great. What's does this thysistor do and how does it work? Where can I read about it?

Does vivitar... 285 has this thysistor?
In Automatic flash, the flash regulates its own output with a "thyristor". Usually you have a choice of 2 f stops for each camera to subject distance. You set the same f stop on the camera and the flash, stay within the specified distance and the flash does the rest. Alot of older flashes have it and the more expensive ones like Quantum have it. It predates things like ETTL but is still very popular with many photographers. You can use the same flash on different brands of cameras.
The 420EX and 550EX don't have it. Check manufacturer specs.
Regards,
Scott

[robertwgross]

This was big stuff twenty years ago.

You probably know that a normal strobe flash unit cannot vary its actual light intensity. It seems to throw more or less light by controlling the duration of the light flash. In a normal Canon ETTL flash situation, the camera can tell the flash unit when to shut off based on its guess from the pre-flash metering.

Back then, twenty years ago, the flash unit could tell itself when to shut off. There was a tiny light sensor on the front of the flash unit. The flash unit would begin its "flash" and then the light would ultimately be reflected off the subject, based on distance and reflectivity of the subject, and the reflected light hit the tiny sensor. When a sufficient amount was received, based on some simple settings, that tiny sensed light acted as the gate signal to quench the main flash tube. Those old flash units were simple but reliable. They did not have to depend on the camera body to tell it anything except for the main sync trigger.

---Bob Gross---

[DocFrankenstein]

Oh yeah...

I've read somewhere that quite a lot of people use them still and "swear by them" because they give more consistent exposure.

[Bruce Foreman]

I just wanted to ask if you can suggest a specific model, which should suit that purpose.

It's just that I am really confused with flash photography and trying a few flashes at the shop made me even more confused. :?

Guys... tell me if the whole idea of a manual flash sounds bogus. Am I crazy uninformed noob? Will I be able to get some decent pics after I get used to it? :?

I don't know of any manual flash that has bounce/tilt/swivel all together. Some have a head that tilts up but I can't remember which.

The Vivitar 283 has a head that tilts up for bounce, the 285 has that and a zoom head (Manual zoom!) as well. Both have a sensor on the front for the auto thryristor (auto flash "quench" when enough light has reflected back) and a choice of 4 fstops to use. The 283 has a manual setting (full power flash and a distance/fstop scale on the side of the unit for settings)

The 285 has a manual power range from full to 1/16th.

Remember...The Wein Safe-Sync should be used with either.

This would probably be the lowest cost for the most flash power to start off with. But if you could afford it I would look at the Sigma and Sunpak units dedicated to Canon.

Bruce Foreman

[scottbergerphoto]

Quantum flashes have true parabolic reflectors, use ETTL, ETTL II, Manual and Auto, as well as tilt/swivel/etc.
Scott