20D vs. D70: which one to choose

[mark_r]

I am about to buy a new DSLR, and I have narrowed by choice to 20D or D70. I have read reviews of both the cameras but unfortunately still can't decide which one to go for. Can someone enlighten me on the feature set of 20D that makes it better than D70? This is going to be my first SLR so I am not already tied to canon/nikon. I am sure many of you would have gone through this dilemma before so I would love to hear your opinion on this subject.

[dsze]

Just my opinion, but the D70 was a step below the 10D and just above the 300D. Given that, I really don't see the D70 even being on the same level as the 20D. I think the 20D is in a separate category and Nikon has yet to release a competitor. I'm sure that others might disagree.

Either camera would make a great first DSLR for you. Read some reviews on the EOS system and the Nikon system. You're really buying into an entire system, not just a camera body. So, check out the lenses, the flashes, etc. There's an article here on Photonotes about the EOS system: http://photonotes.org/articles/why-canon/

good luck,
daniel

[JZaun]

Mark, just my opinion. I currently have a 10D and wanted a faster turn on / wake up speed so I spent some time in the camera store trying a D70. I took over 50 pics and took them home to view. 1st the D70 will only go down to iso 200,, the 10D and D20 will do `100. 2nd the D70 does not have a battery grip, with big IS lens the extra battery power is needed, I compared identical D70 and 10d pics and was not happy with the D70 if cropped very much ( iso) I do not think comparing a 20D to a D70 is a fair comparison. The 20D is a very high end DSLR the D70 is more in line with the Drebel but I would prefer the Drebel. Just my opinion...and I didn't memtion the extra 2 mpx :)


Go here for reviews...http://www.dpreview.com/
JZ

[eric1]

first off i like the 10D better than the d70 (this is a Canon forum). i'm inerested in the same things Jerry is, plus the faster write speeds. the 20D will accomodate us. that being said, the D70 is a fine cam. the 20D is better in my opinion, but you have to decide if it's $500 better.

[tofuboy]

I would have to agree with what everyone has said so far. Keep in mind (as eric) said, this is a Canon forum so there is definately going to be some bias there. As was mentioned, the Nikon D70 isn't a competitor for the 20D (or 10D), but rather one for the dRebel. If I had to choose between the D70 and the 20D, I would go for the 20D. Or you could wait a few months and see what Nikon releases for a competitor to the 20D (if they have one). I think I read somewhere that the D70 doesn't have a true RAW mode, so if that's something you're interested in, then you should look into that as well.

If the $500 price difference isn't an issue, then I would definately go with the 20D. And as was mentioned, be sure you check out the entire system.

[eric1]

I would have to agree with what everyone has said so far. Keep in mind (as eric) said, this is a Canon forum so there is definately going to be some bias there. As was mentioned, the Nikon D70 isn't a competitor for the 20D (or 10D), but rather one for the dRebel. If I had to choose between the D70 and the 20D, I would go for the 20D. Or you could wait a few months and see what Nikon releases for a competitor to the 20D (if they have one). I think I read somewhere that the D70 doesn't have a true RAW mode, so if that's something you're interested in, then you should look into that as well.

If the $500 price difference isn't an issue, then I would definately go with the 20D. And as was mentioned, be sure you check out the entire system.

i heard the D200, and the D2X were just around the corner. i'm not sure what corner though. lots of rumors on the Nikon foruns.

[Sketcher]

I'd really encourage you to determine first which manufacturers' lens system better meets your needs, interest and financial plan (or lack thereof). Camera bodies come and go and the healthy state of competition ensures that nearly every year there's a faster/better/more capable camera from each manufacturer. Lenses are what will tie you to a brand because that's where most of your money WILL be invested.

I did a lot of lurking in various forums before I made my 10D purchase when it was released. My decision to go w/Canon wasn't because of the 10D but because of the lens capability and cost compared to Nikon lenses. For the focal lengths, performance (Image Stabilization) and cost; Canon was a clear winner. This was not just per MY interests but at the time every camp conversion I could find was from Nikon guys switching to Canon for the same cost and performance reasons. If anyone knows of a Canon to Nikon conversion (other than employer related) please feel free to post them. I just couldn't find any at the time.

dpreview allows you to compare camera specs side by side; I've found that to be quite helpfull at times: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_e os20d%2Cnikon_d70&show=all

Anyhow, long stories. Choose the lens system; then go for the best body that doesn't kill your pocketbook, marriage or food preferences! ;).

[Longwatcher]

If the specs match the production the 20D should dust the D70.

Here is my personal opion list on 35mm format digital SLR.
As of 29 Aug 2004, subject to change after any camera announcement
1. Canon 1Ds
2. tie
A. Canon 1D mk II (for Sports photojournalism)
B. Kodak SLR/c or SLR/n (For studio/protrait)
4. Canon 20D
5. Canon 10D (quality over speed)
6. Nikon D70 (speed over quality)
7. Canon 300D
8. Canon D60
9. Nikon D2H (just barely)
10. Canon 1D
11. Olympus E-1
12. which everone it was with the foveon sensor
13. Kodak 14N
14. Sony F828
15. Any camera that works

As to when Nikon will catch up, in my guess about 2-3 years from know; they are gaining a bit, but Canon is so far in the lead by about a year overall in the SLR realm, especially at the PRO level, but only 6 months at the Semi-Pro level.

But I may be biased and this is a Canon forum. I just wish Canon would do a better job of advertising or HP is going to suck up all their money.

[Aylwin]

This is a trick question, right? :wink: Seriously though, I don't think you can even compare the 2.

I'd really encourage you to determine first which manufacturers' lens system better meets your needs, interest and financial plan (or lack thereof). Camera bodies come and go and the healthy state of competition ensures that nearly every year there's a faster/better/more capable camera from each manufacturer. Lenses are what will tie you to a brand because that's where most of your money WILL be invested.
I agree with Jeff. Most people don't think about lenses when buying a camera but it's really worth considering. One thing you have to ask yourself is how seriously do you take your photography? Only you can decide. If you're doing this as a hobby then I recommend you go Canon. If you're on a limited budget and just want a DSLR so you can take better pictures then you should also consider the D70.

Obviously, we're pro-Canon here. However, if I had to choose between the 300D and the D70, both with their respective kits lenses, with no possibility of changing or adding lenses ever, then I'd go with the D70. On the other hand, compared to any other Canon DSLR I go with Canon.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Here's three reasons to go with the 20D

EF 17-40mm f/4L
EF 70-200mm f/4L
EF 135mm f/2L


:wink:

[Sketcher]

Here's three reasons to go with the 20D

EF 17-40mm f/4L
EF 70-200mm f/4L
EF 135mm f/2L


:wink:
Those are perhaps the best reasons I've heard in quite a while ;). In fact, minus the prime; that's the route I went.

[ron chappel]

I won't even try to go into the camera features-others are doing that well

There is another (cost) factor-
nikon lenses will cost more for the same image quality/features.That is a definite certainty

[mark_r]

Thanks a lot guys for all the valuable info!

[MrChad]

I definately think if you were comparing 20D (18-55mm kit) vs. D70 18-70mm Kit, I would definenately get the D70 if I were not going to invest in a ton of additional gear.

I definately like the Nikkor starter lens much better then the Canon EF-S lens, and for a price not much more then the D-Rebel I think it's a fantastic kit. The Nikon consumer digitals really have a lot of consumer friendly features I like..able to use normal batteries in a pitch, protective LCD screens, etc. I think the D70 is an excellent consumer camera if you don't plan to buy a ton of lenses down the road, or if you like Nikkor glass. I'd have no issues using the D70. I like the D70 a $h1t load more then the D-rebel in terms of construction as well.

With that said if you want to have lots of quality lens choices down the road, I don't think you can ever beat Canon gear period, Nikons higher end gear falls short to Canon IMO. If money were no object between the 2 bodies, I'd get the 20D with the 17-85 IS kit lens hands down.

[J Rabin]

They are both fine. Go to a camera store, try them. Consider kinds pics you take most. As former Nikon owner, I went with Canon digital mainly for:
1. Ergonomics. Getting shot quick & right means NOT fumbling cam controls (shifting EC, etc.). Since Canon implemented wheel 'QCD' camera backs in 1990s, I have fumble free handling auto SLR. Life is good. This can't be over-emphasized. If you can't operate it quickly and decisvely, who cares for other features? Sometimes I miss my Olympus OM-1 of 35 yrs ago, but I NEVER miss my 1990s Nikon N70. Every user has their own handling preferences.
Other:
2. Chips. While they are both good, the smooth noise free images of Canon's chip tech seems about 2 yrs ahead of others. An amazing joy to print and show.
3. Nikon does NOT provide mirror lockup. Essential for macro, landscape, night shots, but Nikon does provide a smaller spot meter for difficult outoor landcape situations. All Canon owners wish Canon would make an EOS 3 digital for $2,500, but they don't. That $750 camera alone and Canon 17-40L and 70-200L f/2.8 are reason enough to still shoot slide film landscapes and scan images.
4. Even with Canon E-TTL, Nikon implements daylight balanced fill flash a bit better than Canon, IMO. If you do A LOT of daylight fill flash with people shots-exclusively-then get the Nikon, stock lens, a really good $350 flash, and live with handling shortcomings.

[DirtyHarry]

2nd the D70 does not have a battery grip, with big IS lens the extra battery power is needed
JZ


you serious? the D70 doesnt have a grip? huh? :? :?: :roll: :shock:


hmmmm stupid Nikon! :D

[CyberDyneSystems]

I definately think if you were comparing 20D (18-55mm kit) vs. D70 18-70mm Kit, I would definenately get the D70 if I were not going to invest in a ton of additional gear.

I definately like the Nikkor starter lens much better then the Canon EF-S lens, and for a price not much more then the D-Rebel I think it's a fantastic kit. The Nikon consumer digitals really have a lot of consumer friendly features I like..able to use normal batteries in a pitch, protective LCD screens, etc. I think the D70 is an excellent consumer camera if you don't plan to buy a ton of lenses down the road, or if you like Nikkor glass. I'd have no issues using the D70. I like the D70 a $h1t load more then the D-rebel in terms of construction as well.

With that said if you want to have lots of quality lens choices down the road, I don't think you can ever beat Canon gear period, Nikons higher end gear falls short to Canon IMO. If money were no object between the 2 bodies, I'd get the 20D with the 17-85 IS kit lens hands down.

You seem to be comparing the D70 to the Rebel?
...as opposed to the 20D which is a new camera that is the succesor to the 10D...?

[Mogwyth]

I definately like the Nikkor starter lens much better then the Canon EF-S lens, and for a price not much more then the D-Rebel I think it's a fantastic kit.

I am often surprised at this sort of comparison in the UK 300D + Kit lens is £659 and the D70+18-70 is £889, that's about 35% dearer . It seems to me in the UK anyway the 300d is a much better buy and with the large price difference there is no comparison.

[djdino]

2nd the D70 does not have a battery grip, with big IS lens the extra battery power is needed
JZ


you serious? the D70 doesnt have a grip? huh? :? :?: :roll: :shock:


hmmmm stupid Nikon! :D

It sure doesn't and I cannot convince my friend to go with a 10D. He's too loyal to Nikon for his own good. :lol:

[danphoto1]

I just feel that Canon is ahead of the game and will continue to stay there. Canon bodies seem to hold up better. I have a good freind that uses both and he swears by Canon and has gone with that system over the Nikon for reliability. he is a professional photo journalist. His newspaper owns Nikon but he has purchased his own canon system and prefers it. It is a personal choice as far as I', concerned. I like Canon

[Hellashot]

The 20D does not have a Nikon equivalent. The D70 is comparable to the D300. Between the 2 you should be shot if you even consider the D70.

Hellashot

[DocFrankenstein]

20Duh! :lol:

[Olegis]

Here's three reasons to go with the 20D

EF 17-40mm f/4L
EF 70-200mm f/4L
EF 135mm f/2L


:wink:

The REAL reason to go with the 20D is probably the EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, which will finally give the digital photographers the possibility to shoot REAL wide angle at a price that will not make your bank manager to come to your house with a shotgun.

[danphoto1]

i'm lovin it. Nikon is so behind Canon right now except for the D70. The Nikon product doesn't hold up quite as well according to most professioals that I have heard speak. If I had a choice betewwn to 20D and a D70 the cannon would win every time. :roll:

[MrChad]

I'm just not sure the D70 is comparable to the yet not available 20D.

They aren't really in the same price league, the D70 is much closer to the D-Rebel. The D100 is likely much closer to the 20D.

Personally I'm hoping the 10D drops to the $999 price range at some point, then I could actually afford one. :D

If you don't have any lenses what's the point? Just buy the camera that you can get and use. In 3 years what ever you buy is just going to be near worthless in terms of purchased value. Just think what a D30 is worth now ~$500 vs. the ~$2500 from back in the day?

I'd personally buy as little digital body as you can and spend the balance of the cash on EF or Nikkor glass, the lenses are always going to serve you better down the road. When the new 20D mark II or 33D of 13.5 megal pixels comes to market in what a whopping 2 years if the trends hold true.

I have Canon glass so the canon digital body is my only real economical choice but like I said if I had to start over, I'd have no problem trying out some Nikon gear. Go play with the gear (you can even rent it from some shops) and use it before you buy it.

[danphoto1]

You can rent Canon too. Canon is a beter built product right now I photogrpy director the the Boston Hearls thinksso


Dan

[MrChad]

If you don't have any local rental shops both Adorama and BHphoto have rental programs...for most any gear.

As for the Canon being so far ahead of the Nikon gear, in what way? I can take a picture with pretty much either gear just fine?

I know Canon has "the" 1Ds and I'm not sure Nikon, as yet, has a comparable model. But Since I can't purchase a $6000 camera I don't think I'd be too concerned, I've yet to ever see a 1Ds in use either, MkII yes, but never the big dawg. I definately think L glass is some of the best on the market but I'm not sure I'd say higher end Nikon glass sucks.

Heck I loved my Pentax and Konica gear before my Canon gear.

I definately don't think at the consumer level Canon gear blows Nikon away. Feature for feature the cameras are so close, what ever comes out to the market the newest is always the best. So the 20D will be king at it's level for a couple of months likely--then something else will come out.

[danphoto1]

Canon has the 20D 8 mgp camera nikno doesn't have it MKII 8 frames a second in 40 frame burst 8 megpixel files> The 1d's are more weather resistand try shooting a Nikon digital in damp drizzle it stops working most of the time according to Omar Bradley a Photo Journalist associate of mine. His Nikon camera had most of the rubber come off the body . Nikon doesn't do as goo a job filed testing there equiptment. I know another photographer who has had troble with new lenses. Maybe all of these are flukes but I tend to doubt it count the number of big grey lenses at any sporting event. 8)

[Persian-Rice]

Buy the 10D..............
Better then the D70 and cheap enough to buy you an L lens from the money you save not buying the 20D.............

Cheers.

[MrChad]

Buy the 10D..............
Better then the D70 and cheap enough to buy you an L lens from the money you save not buying the 20D.............

Cheers.

You mean the 300D, right?
If the 10D body sold for the same price as the D70, I'd order one up in no time. As is ~$1300+ is a bit much to spend for the 10D (no lens), especially since the 20D is so close in price to the 10D for the moment.

I really hope A. the 10D hits the sub $999 range or B. a newer better built second gen Rebel-D would debute for the current models price.

As is, I hate the current 300D's grey plastic shell, especially for the price. I'd also prefer a control layout more instep with other higher end Canon models, my Elan 7N has a nice layout, as does the 10D and upper models.

But yeh, a 300D and 17-40L could be had for nearly the same price as the D70 kit, and the Canon glass is definately going to make for much nicer quality pics. A 300D and the 50(1.4) is also a very nice sub $1k combo with excellent results.

[rraman]

...
If the 10D body sold for the same price as the D70, I'd order one up in no time. As is ~$1300+ is a bit much to spend for the 10D (no lens), especially since the 20D is so close in price to the 10D for the moment.

I really hope A. the 10D hits the sub $999 range or B. a newer better built second gen Rebel-D would debute for the current models price.
...
MrChad,
The 10D *is* available now for less than $1000! Check out ebay.

[Persian-Rice]

You mean the 300D, right?
If the 10D body sold for the same price as the D70, I'd order one up in no time. As is ~$1300+ is a bit much to spend for the 10D (no lens), especially since the 20D is so close in price to the 10D for the moment.

I really hope A. the 10D hits the sub $999 range or B. a newer better built second gen Rebel-D would debute for the current models price.

As is, I hate the current 300D's grey plastic shell, especially for the price. I'd also prefer a control layout more instep with other higher end Canon models, my Elan 7N has a nice layout, as does the 10D and upper models.

But yeh, a 300D and 17-40L could be had for nearly the same price as the D70 kit, and the Canon glass is definately going to make for much nicer quality pics. A 300D and the 50(1.4) is also a very nice sub $1k combo with excellent results.

Right at this second I can buy you 3-4 mint low use 10D's $950, some even have battery grips and include shipping. I have also seen about 6-7 10D's sell for under $900 brand new on ebay over the past 3-4 days.
Willouby's is selling the 10D at $11**, they have a pretty good rep too.B&H has dropped the price twice in the last month or so................

The days of the $1300 10Ds are over. The 10 costs less then the D70 now..................

[danphoto1]

That's right Canon just wants to deplete all the 10D's in invetory and so down goes the price . I bought my second 1D for $2800 last January. I'm not sorry that I did so look for even more of a drop. 8)

[wibbly]

Well, I'm considering the same combo. I'm waiting to see what the street price will be for the 20D with longer lens bundle (in the UK). I'm currenly a G3 user and 'transferable' kit I can use with both G3 & 20D are a 420EX flash and 1 extra battery - hardly a money issue in the context of the price of either SLR, but also saves bulk when both cameras are about - e.g family hols!

I realise the big difference in price between D70 & 20D - I'd budgeted for D70 - and then saw 20D. Prior to that D70 seemed a sweet spot. I was put off by lack of feature in Drebel even my G3 das. So question is to evaluate in my mind if extra for 20D is worth waiting/saving for, or if I'd be happy with D70, wich also has benefit of having its early production bugs worked out...

Anyone know yet what battery life will be like on the 20D?

For a bit of bias in favour of D70, see this:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/20d.htm

W

[rraman]

For a bit of bias in favour of D70, see this:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/20d.htm



I had seen this before on a Nikon forum, and I found that even the Nikon lovers feel that this review is not balanced!

[MrChad]

...
If the 10D body sold for the same price as the D70, I'd order one up in no time. As is ~$1300+ is a bit much to spend for the 10D (no lens), especially since the 20D is so close in price to the 10D for the moment.

I really hope A. the 10D hits the sub $999 range or B. a newer better built second gen Rebel-D would debute for the current models price.
...
MrChad,
The 10D *is* available now for less than $1000! Check out ebay.

I don't consider ebay the place to buy a 10D new, as I tend to like a bit more permanence in my stores. If I was going to use this logic I could easily find an even cheaper D70 as well.

[CyberDyneSystems]

For a bit of bias in favour of D70, see this:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/20d.htm



I had seen this before on a Nikon forum, and I found that even the Nikon lovers feel that this review is not balanced!

You certainly don't need to be a genious to figure out it's biased.. essentially the only reason that the D70 is "better" is the flash synch..

Well.. one needs a very specific need for a 1/500 synch to be so important.. only two DSLRs have had it.. the D70 and the 1D.. if neither Nikon or Canon felt the need to put it into there latest and greatest action cameras than .. well?

And why then if flash synch is everything doesn't Ken use a 1D?

It's too heavy? The type of phtography where 1/500 becomes important usually involves a 300mm f/2.8 that weighs a lot more than any body mentioned by several times.

Oh well.. not worth it really the guy is a genuine nut case.

[Persian-Rice]

There is no point arguing about what Nikon or Canon is better in the entry level-intermediate market.

1.20D $1500 Brand New EStore, NA
2.10D $1100 Brand New EStore, $900 Brand New Ebay
3.D70 $1000 Brand New EStore, $1000 Brand New Ebay
4.300D $800 Brand New EStore, $700 Brand New Ebay

That is the prices I could find. They go in that specific order as well. People argue the d70 is faster. Well, You buy a camera to take quality images, not watch it load in a jiffy. All 3 Canons out perform the d70 when it comes to quality, and the 20d beats it in both speed and quality.

BTW, if ebay says NIB, it's NIB, if they send you something used, pay with paypal and you will get a refund the second you ask for one.

Cheers.

[roanjohn]

.............just go ahead and get the D70!!..............

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Ro1

[MrChad]

I've had the opertunity to use both the D70 and the 300D with their kit lenses, The photos from both are completely acceptable. But, I really do prefer the build quality of the D70 and it's kit lens over the Rebel, and the cost of the Nikon with lens is very affordable.

Now, if you are going to buy the kit only and likely never buy any higher quality glass I see know reason not to buy the Nikon, it really seams like a better built body and lens.

Now, if you are going to buy some nicer Canon glass down the road, and who wouldn't the 300D or any of it's better Canon counter parts are the way to go.

If you haven't bought into any system and you have $1500-2000 burning a hole in your pocket 10D's and D70's are on the shelf right now. If you don't have any gear what's the point in waiting for better gear to hit the market? It's just a camera body, 2 years from now we won't even care about the 20D. Just get some gear and take some pics.

Heck, buy some nice Canon lens(es) now, go get a cheap film slr Canon body, and take some pics until the 20D comes to market in mass. The gear doesn't make the photo, it just helps make it a bit better.

[danphoto1]

Bottom line is buy what you like and what you feel comfortable with adn can afford. We can spend the next 100 years going over the pros and cons of Nikon vs. Canon. I only know one thing Great Lenses help to make Great Photographs. Spend your hard earned money on the best lenses that you can afford. the price of the cameras will eventually drop and there is always good used stuff around.

[thiensydney]

I had the Nikon D70 and sold it because I compared it with my brother Canon 10D. I like Canon 10D better. Now the Canon 20D is better than the 10D. I just got the Canon 20D. The Canon 20D image and speed is much better than Nikon D70.

[chris.bailey]

If you take your photography at all seriously i.e. you have a longer term aim of collecting a few more lenses etc then the decision is a biggy :shock: and beyond just comparing the current offering from Canon and Nikon.

The 10D/20D/300D and D70 are all fine instruments each with their own pros and cons. I would also add that there are a lot of D60's around second hand and if you can find a good one I would not rule it out completely, they are very capable cameras and with decent glazing out from would give a 20D and kit lens a run for its money if you put 8x10 prints side by side.

When I went over to digital SLR my view was that Canon had the better lens range and seemed to have a better development program. Go to any sports event and see how many red striped white rocket launchers there are on the side lines. Canon lens' are the professional choice all the way. I went Canon over Nikon and have invested in a range of lens' that suit my needs. Having done so it would be a huge decision for me to go away from Canon.

So choose wisely and good luck!

[danphoto1]

CHRIS I AGREE 110% I feel that Canon is a greqat camera and the proffesional choice but every company that makes a has someting to offer. Canon however is my choice as well