Pricing Large Project

[coast03]

I've been photographing a major construction site over the last two years as a personal project.

I want to approach the construction company and architect to see if they are interested in my work.

What to charge? should i factor in time already spent?

Considering the project is over half completed and I already have a large archive of photographs of the site to offer them?

Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

[robertwgross]

Let me play Devil's Advocate here for a minute.

Why would the construction company want to buy your photographs?

Do you think they will want to have huge prints made to hang on the walls of the executive conference room?

If that project was unique for the company, then maybe this would fly. On the other hand, if it was just another project, maybe they've already moved on intellectually.

---Bob Gross---

[jboyd]

I agree with Bob. They may already have their own photographer doing the same thing you have been doing.

On the other hand, if you are trying to get your work noticed (like I am) you could show them your photos and if they like them offer the use of some of them with the stipulation that with the photos is a note stating "Photography by: *****". This will get your work recognized and possibly bring in some paying jobs!

Just a thought.

[jgbeam]

Every project of any significant size, and most small ones as well, include contractual requirements for progress photographs, usually on some minimum schedule. These photographs are mainly to document progress and serve very little other purpose, unless there is a problem on the project and they end up in court as evidence. As engineer-of-record, I take many photos during construction of those conditions of particular interest to my work. They become part of my personal record and no one else is likely to ever see them. I refer to them when I write my reports.

My point is, there are probably a lot of pictures being taken that will never see the light of day. But if your shots are dramatic enough and no one else has captured that moment, there could be some interest on someone's part. I would suggest picking out a half dozen of your most interesting shots, making 13x19 (or larger) prints and bringing them to the jobsite to show around. You might even leave a couple of them there and ask the project super to hang them up. Staple a card to them.

Give it a try. I think construction photos can be very cool.

Jim

[Digital Prophet]

Every project of any significant size, and most small ones as well, include contractual requirements for progress photographs, usually on some minimum schedule.

Oh I totally disagree.

I work for an engineering firm that is doing a $21 million dollar expansion for an airport. You would think that there would be an interest in documenting this project but the interest for our firm (and most that I have dealt with) is limited to occassional P&S shots.

It is just something that engineers (most not necessarily you) don't think about. And if they do they almost certainly do not have someone who's skill or equipment is on a professional level doing the job. Most often it is someone who had nothing better to do or a marketer with a $200 cybershot. Hardly effective photography.

So if you have ample, clear and professional shot I think that you should certainly approach the firm. Let them know what you have. Make it more about documentation of the firms project capability than about decorative prints. Offer to them the options of presentations, promotional documents, commerative prints things like that. Don't just tell them "I got purty ppictures what of the way y'all move that thar dirt." Make sure that they know that your photos have more value than the bare wall they cover.

And if they don't bite, approach the client that the firm has been working for. Spin it as promotional material for them as well. Brochures backgrounds for announcing or advertising the new facility. Stuff like that.

And if THAT doesn't work send them to a stock photography agency that deals with construction publications as project specific stock photography.

As for price you have two options. One is that you can approach them with a up front all included price. Sell them the images, retain rights for self promotion and be done. In which case you should consider the scope of your package (time period, number of shots, number of angles, percentage of photos from each perspective). If you go this route approach it like any editorial shot and price it per shot that is likely to be included in the package.

Or, and this may be harder, if you can find out what the total cost of the project is price your whole set on the same rights at .5% to 1.5% of the total cost.

If you have to go to the client expect to sell only select shots so go on a per image price. There are alot of guides for pricing assignment photography out there.

And lastly if you go the stock image route the market will bear out the price.

All in all good luck. Depending on the number of shot you have stock may make you the most cash. However there is no reason that you have to sell all of them to the firm or client. Use a combination. Say the firm likes the shots but balks at 1%. Sell them half the images at .3% to .5%. Then turn and sell the remainder to other people. Just be sure that you do not get pulled into a "work for hire" arrangement since this certainly wasn't for hire. And you deserve to be able to market those images on a right by right basis.

- Digital Prophet -

[robertwgross]

My two cents worth here. No way would a firm pay anything near 1% of a project cost for photos during construction. Not even 0.5%.

Perhaps a small fraction of that.

---Bob Gross---

[Digital Prophet]

Oh I don't know. I think that when you are talking about corporate photography that having a large set of prints over a long duration .3% to .5% isn't unreasonable.

And really I think that it is probably unreasonable to think that what the firm buys will 100% of the pictures. So you have to price accordingly.

But as I recall this project has been ongoing for two years. So lets assume that you visit the site weekly and document construction with 10 shots (and I have to image that is a very conservative estimate). That is in the neighbor hood of 1000 images. Again, conservatively speaking. I am sure that some of these will be panoramics, some will be item specific. At any rate they will not "want all of them". So if you sell them 1000 prints that you did on speculation, i.e. assuming all financial risk of the project, then yes I think that .5% and 1% is reasonable.

But what will most likely happen is that you will sell some fraction of them. Let's say 100 images (counting each image that combines to make a panoramic as 1 image) the you need to take that into consideration. But even then, .3% of a $2 million dollar project would be $6,000. Taking into account travel, time, personal financial risk (specing the work) and for lack of a better term initiative .3% isn't too unreasonable.

Of course that isn't to say that as a firm price. I think that it is a reasonable point to begin negotiation at. Now that is considering that you sell them all rights, retaining only promotional rights for yourself. If they just want "prints" for walls then that would lower the price. But if they want to use them in ads then that more than justifies the price. But that also leaves you with full rights on all the remaining images to sell to the owner or stock firms.

Of course in retrospect I say that from the viewpoint of someone who works in a major construction market (Houston). If you are afraid that your market won't bear that out then try feeling the market out. Call some corporate location photographers and get an estimate. But don't be surprised when you can't find too many that will even consider the job. On site project photography of a construction project is specialized work and most photographer just won't do it.

- Digital Prophet -

[jgbeam]

Every project of any significant size, and most small ones as well, include contractual requirements for progress photographs, usually on some minimum schedule.

Oh I totally disagree.

- Digital Prophet -

I'm talking about owners and/or funding sources requiring the general contractor (remember them?) or construction manager to provide progress photos, not the engineering firm. It's common practice on most projects I've been involved with during the past 40 years. The cost is included in the General Conditions along with trailer rental, security fences, portable toilets and every other little expense associated with running a project. Sometimes the requirements are very specific, e.g. 10 - 8x10 b&w glossies every month by a professional photographer showing overall progress, and sometimes not specific at all. Lately, the CM's have been taking their own digital photos.

I take my own shots every time I visit the site and often include a couple in my inspection reports, especially if there is a discrepancy to report.

This is foundation work for a $20 million school project.

http://www.imagevenue.com/host/web1/2f040_IMG_4530.jpg

There are pros who specialize in or include construction photography in their scope of services, but I doubt that their fees bear any relation to the cost of the project other than large projects may require more shots. On a typical, non-complex project, the structural engineer's fee will be between .5% and 1% of the cost of the project and he not only designs the structure, prepares the contract documents and oversees construction, he is also liable for all structural aspects of the project. There is no way a photographer is going to get more than a few hundred bucks for a $2 million project. If I could get even a small fraction of the engineer's fee just for taking pictures and being able to sleep at night without worrying if I screwed up a structural detail I'd be a professional photog tomorrow.

Just a few thoughts.

Jim

[Digital Prophet]

I just can't imagine what kind of engineers you are familiar with. Our engineering fees for DOT work average 9-14%.

And maybe it is different in private consturction but I've never read a contract that state "photography services" as part of the mobilization pay item. Not one. But then again I don't know, maybe schools (for instance) are different. Our projects are state funded through federal block grants for DOT and municipal utility systems. Well most of them.

But maybe things are just different in different places.

- Digital Prophet -

[NILOLIGIST]

Interesting topic. Why would you take upon yourself to photograph this project for nearly two years and not find out earlier if the photos would be of interest.

I don't know what they would say, but, after all this time you have nothing to lose. Print some of the more interesting images and take them in...See if they would be interested in them...

If they show no interest, I might leave one with my card just because. Perhaps you could have a gallery showing with them if they don't want them. If the project meant that much to you, something else might come out of it.

If you plan on continuing this project, I would take very artsy photo and think of a gallery showing in the future.

Good luck.

NiL,

[jgbeam]

I just can't imagine what kind of engineers you are familiar with. Our engineering fees for DOT work average 9-14%.

And maybe it is different in private consturction but I've never read a contract that state "photography services" as part of the mobilization pay item. Not one. But then again I don't know, maybe schools (for instance) are different. Our projects are state funded through federal block grants for DOT and municipal utility systems. Well most of them.

But maybe things are just different in different places.

- Digital Prophet -

We're working in different worlds. We don't do any DOT or municipal utility work where the engineering is the total package. In building construction, the engineering fees (structural, mechanical, electrical, plumbing and site) represent less than half of the total fee with the architect getting more than 50% of the total fee. It's a rare project that the fee reaches 10%. Most schools are in the 7-9% range. I'm lucky to get 10% of the total fee for structural which means about .7% of the project cost.

Jim

[jgbeam]

I've been photographing a major construction site over the last two years as a personal project.



You should go ahead and approach the builder and architect, but how about posting a couple of your favorite shots of this project here. We might be able to offer an opinion on their marketability.

Jim