Studio Lighting Shopping List

[dphoto]

Well, as some of you know, I have been looking to buy a studio lighting setup for a few months now. I've put together a setup from Alien Bees that I feel pretty good about, but seeing as how I'm still pretty new to a lot of this, I'd love it if some of you who know a little more about lighting wouldn't mind taking a look at it. If anything looks questionable, or you think I might have a better time of it going another way, then please let me know.

OK, here's the list. <gulp> I can't even believe I'm contemplating spending this much money on lighting... :D

4 B800 strobes ($280 each) $1120
4 carrying bags ($13 each) $52
1 backlight stand $25
1 10' light stand $40
2 13' light stands ($70 each) $140
1 boom arm $60
1 48" silver/white umbrella $30
1 48" gold/silver umberlla $30
1 48" translucent/white umbrella $30
1 48" brolly box $40
1 32"x40" softbox (w/speedring) $110
1 set 20 colored filters $50
1 set barn doors $50
1 set of 4 honeycomb grids
(includes 10, 20, 30, and 40 degree grids) $100

20% accessory discount ($151)

Total $1725


It's going to take a lot of time to pay this stuff off, so I really don't want to spend money where I don't have to. On the other hand, I really want to be able to take great portraits, and I know that lighting is key.

Thanks for any input/suggestions. I think I need to sweat this out for a couple more days before I get my credit card handy. Oh man, why is this so painful? Some people have fun spending money... I just don't see how they do it. :D

-Deva
Naive 300D owner who thought he would spend $999 and be done! :D

[Longwatcher]

Looks good to me.
Places where (if not for the discount at time of purchase) you might save money on.

With the honey comb grids, you may find you don't use the barn doors very often. The only time I need to use my barn doors is when I need two of the same grid.

Quantity wise you have two more umbrellas then you need after accounting for grids and brolly box and softbox. For me I wish I had another softbox and two less umbrellas (I never use all three of mine).

There may be no need to have different colors of umbrellas if you use the filters. Just get a silver/white umbrella (if they have then get a gold/white one more useful). I can't speak to the brolly box since I don't have one.

One thing you are missing from the list that may be very important is either the three way switch or one of the remote control systems. Reason is if you use the lights in slave mode and ever shoot near another photographer, it could be very annoying for one or both of you as your flashes go off. If you are never going to have this problem, then don't worry about it.

I think you need to decide specifially how you intend to set up your lights before you buy, that is what I did.

I got the softbox for my main, an umbrella for my fill, a small umbrella for my backlight (as well as the grids) and already had an umbrella for my hair light.

What happened when I got mine though is I sometimes use the 20 or 30 degree grids for my hair light and the 10 degree grid on what was the backlight when using it as a spot light. When used as a backlight, I find I don't use anything, just lower the power. So based on my expierence the grids are an excellent investment, but umbrellas can be picked up later. and as I mentioned I wish I had gotten a second giant softbox (I may still get one, but my priority for the moment is saving for a FF camera (AKA 1Ds).

Just my opinion and experience.

[Ken Fong]

I think I'll bookmark your list for future purposes...thanks.
So in addition to the remote triggering, what about the power systems?...do the strobes just plug right into an outlet, or do you need some power supply/conditioners (or does each B800 already come with it)? (I'm assuming this is not for mobile/portable use.)

[Bruce Foreman]

OK, here's the list. <gulp> I can't even believe I'm contemplating spending this much money on lighting... :D


It's going to take a lot of time to pay this stuff off, so I really don't want to spend money where I don't have to. On the other hand, I really want to be able to take great portraits, and I know that lighting is key.

-Deva
Naive 300D owner who thought he would spend $999 and be done! :D

Here's some places I'd consider trimming your list. You don't need much power for hair light, background light, or backlight so you may not need all four units to be B800's. By ordering 2 as B400's you save about $110 or so there.

Wait on the gold/silver umbrella and start with the silver/white which you are far more likely to use.

Wait also on the filters, until you get the feel of using the lighting itself. You can always order stuff later.

The honeycomb set and one set of barndoors is a good idea but too many "gewgaws" will actually get in the way of learning to use lighting.

Master the use of one softbox, one umbrella for fill, one background light (with a good canvas or muslin background) and one hairlight. Order the other stuff as needed and you may not have to wreck your credit card so bad.

Hope this helps

Bruce Foreman

[dphoto]

Hey guys,

Thanks a lot for the input... I really appreciate it!

Longwatcher, you bring up a good point about the umbrellas. That would save $60 right there. Also, you are right about the 3-way switch. I am going to get one of those (as well as a hot-shoe adapter for my 300D), but not from Alien Bees, so I didn't include it here. But you are right, that is a nice thing to have for certain situations (which I may encounter). I'm glad to hear that the grids are so useful. With the discount, all 4 are only $80, which seems like money well spent.

Ken, I'm glad to hear that my list might be useful for you as well, if for nothing more than a reference. As for power, these things just plug into a normal outlet. They can suck a lot of juice when they recycle (up to 8 amps for a full recycle), but under "normal" use, a standard 15 amp circuit breaker should be able to accomidate 3 or 4 units. If not, you can use an extension cord and put 2 on one circuit and 2 on another. But from what I understand, you should not have to do that (I just keep it in mind just in case). This setup can be made portable. Alien Bees sells (as do other companies, I'm sure) what is basically a battery in a bag. You plug a power strip into that and then you can plug all your strobes into the power strip. When you're done, you can just recharge the battery. Pretty cool for $350. They also sell a double battery unit for $500. :D So the options are there.

Bruce, you bring up a great point about using lower powered units for hair, back, and background lighting. I've gone back and forth on this one. Since I don't really have any experience with studio lighting, I wasn't sure if the B400 would be enough for those things. I know that a hair light won't need to be diffused. Do colored gels drop the light output of a strobe by very much? If not, you are right, I could probably get away with two B400s and two B800s. I think I might actually do that. Does anyone else see any potential problems with that? I've head that I should use modeling lights proportional to the strobe power, so for instance, I could use 120-watt bulbs in the B800s and 60-watt bulbs in the B400s. Also, it sounds like the barn doors may be a little much right now.

Wow, well that was all great input that can save me a couple hundred dollars or so. Thanks again guys, I really do appreciate it. Does anyone else have any input on the B400s? It sounds like they will safely be enough power. I didn't even think about that fact that narrowing the beam (for the hair light, for example) effectively ups the amount of light that will fall on the subject. OK, well, that's some more for me to sleep on tonight. :D

Thanks again,
-Deva

[Bruce Foreman]

Hey guys,

Thanks a lot for the input... I really appreciate it!


Bruce, you bring up a great point about using lower powered units for hair, back, and background lighting. I've gone back and forth on this one. Since I don't really have any experience with studio lighting, I wasn't sure if the B400 would be enough for those things. I know that a hair light won't need to be diffused. Do colored gels drop the light output of a strobe by very much? If not, you are right, I could probably get away with two B400s and two B800s. I think I might actually do that. Does anyone else see any potential problems with that? I've head that I should use modeling lights proportional to the strobe power, so for instance, I could use 120-watt bulbs in the B800s and 60-watt bulbs in the B400s. Also, it sounds like the barn doors may be a little much right now.


Thanks again,
-Deva

I just got 2 B800's. For what I'm going to use them for (location portraits, prom pak setups at formal military events, etc.) bounced out of 48" silver umbrellas, I could have got by with B400's. For several decades I've shot on ISO 100 Vericolor films with 2 heads on a Novatron 220 power pack at events and had enough power, the B400's look like they'll give similar performance.

What a lot of us forget is that on the DRebel and other Canon DSLR's we can up the ISO with very little gain in noise, and at ISO 400 these cameras are just hitting their stride.

I came very close to ordering B400's and would have done OK.

With B800's for your main and fill you will be in very good shape powerwise. I would start out with the big softbox on your main and WHITE umbrella for fill. You want your fill light to be:

1) Non directional
2) Non specular (white will help here...More diffuse)
3) Non evident (ideally should cast no shadows of it's own)

Hairlight should be very weak compared to your main. The idea is to have highlights in the hair but they should not call much attention to themselves.

Colored gels will drop the output of a unit to a varying degree based on the color and density of the filter. With proportional modelling lights you will actually be able to "eyeball" their effect some. A test exposure will refine things even more especially if interpreted on the computer and monitor you will use for digital post processing. Eventually you will even learn to interpret the effect on the LCD on the back of the camera.

I would not be afraid of B400's for the hairlight and background light, both will be used so close that the power of the stronger units is not needed. My guess is you'll use both of those at 1/4 power or less.

Of course you have the upgrade offer good for 2 years.

Bruce Foreman

[Vegas Poboy]

Hey dphoto,
Hopefully by time you read this you have not placed your order yet. Just a little history for you I'm in advance lighting right now & it would be better to build slowly instead of the big price tag you're about to spend.

I've been doing studio lighting in home & at the local college for over a year & alot of the add ons you listed is not really needed right away. First off if you don't have one get a good book on lighting there is alot of household or craft products you may use for light modifiers.
I started this summer with two light 800 Alien Bees kit with a medium soft box & reflectors for fill. Early this month I added a White-lightning 1600 due to all of the modifiers is interchangable. I really don't care for the standard Alien Bees light sticks,I prefer Bogen or JTL's. The heavy duty is nice for the price. Lighting is a true art research which type of lighting you want to do High Key, Low Key ect. Gels & Honey Comb grids can change the backgrounds greatly but twenty colors is not needed to start. Brolly boxes to me is not needed when you have a softbox. Carry bags sucks
:) I purchased a tamarac lighting bag with wheels & now I can carry everything @ once in one bag instead of four plus bags.
Hopefully you plan on getting a decent light meter & try using reflectors or mylar boards for fill lights. Low Key lighting is great & I do most of those with a softbox, reflector & background light.
Believe me once you learn how to control two lights you may never go for four. When you do need them just call Alien & they'll be there in a week.
You also left out the important things such as extra bulbs & sync cords. Good luck lighting is fun but before breaking the bank start slowly & buy just what you need until $$$ start coming in. Check out Monte Zucker website http://www.montezucker.com/content.html?page=2 he is a major Canon shooter and have alot of great tips on lighting and portraits.
Hopefully this will help you in meeting your needs & good Luck

[dphoto]

Hey Bruce and Vegas,

I really appreciating your input. You have both given me a lot to think about.

Bruce, I'm going to start with 2 B800s and if/when I get back and background lights, they will be B400s. I'm an ISO 100 man myself, but I have ventured into ISO 200 territory and was pleased with the results. ISO 400 scares me a little, but it is something that I need to keep in mind while shooting. Thanks for the idea. As for my fill light, if I want it white, should I get the silver/white umbrella, or the translucent/white umbrella? It sounds like the silver/white since I will not be shoothing through the umbrella. BTW, how is shooting through an umbrella for fill lighting? Probably not as diffuse as bounce lighting I would imagine.

Vegas Poboy, no I have not placed my order yet. It takes me a while to sleep on these kind of things. :D Thanks for the history and the info. I really do appreciate the input. You mentioned getting a "good" book on lighting. Do you have any recommendations? I would like to learn more about light modifiers. As for the type of photos I'll be taking, I imagine taking all kinds... high key and low key included. I think you are right about the brolly box... Bruce had mentioned using a white umbrella for fill lighting, so if I use that and a soft box for key lighting, then I don't need that brolly box. Hehe... so you don't like the carry bags? They're small, and I was thinking they would be good to protect the lights so that I could throw them into a larger bag with all the stands and stuff and not have to worry about the lights. You mentioned a tamrac bag... which bag is it and how do you pack the stands and umbrellas and lights into it so that the lights don't get damaged? Yeah, that $50 might be better spent towards a better bag. I just want to keep the lights protected. :D

As for a light meter, that's my next endeavor. I need a good enough incident light meter so that I can set up my lighting ratios. There's been a lot of information on that posted to this board, so I have to get back to reading. The whole learning process is cyclic... I don't get everything on the first pass. :D And thanks for the website link. It looks pretty good. I'm going to check it out some more now. :D

Oh, so there was one more thing I wanted to ask you Vegas. What do you do for background lighting or back lighting? Can you use your reflectors somehow? I've noticed that background lighting can add a lot of depth to a shot. That would be especially good for portraits, which is what I'll be starting out with primarily. Out of curiosity, how much do you think one should spend on those? I was originally looking at a Photoflex set of 5 32" reflectors with a holding stand. It's $160. I just bought a car windshield sun screen that's gold on one side and silver on the other for $3. I figured I might start with that. :D OK, so I need a helper, but for $3 I figured I can't go wrong.

Well thanks again guys. I need to think through this some more. I am definitely going to drop a lot of accesories. The tough decision is whether to go with 2, 3, or 4 strobes to begin with. I think after key and fill, background lighting is the next most important for portraits. Then there's those with dark hair. How do you do hair lighting without that 4th light? As always, ideas/suggestions are always appreciated.

-Deva

[Bruce Foreman]

Hey Bruce and Vegas,

I really appreciating your input. You have both given me a lot to think about.

Bruce, I'm going to start with 2 B800s and if/when I get back and background lights, they will be B400s. I'm an ISO 100 man myself, but I have ventured into ISO 200 territory and was pleased with the results. ISO 400 scares me a little, but it is something that I need to keep in mind while shooting. Thanks for the idea. As for my fill light, if I want it white, should I get the silver/white umbrella, or the translucent/white umbrella? It sounds like the silver/white since I will not be shoothing through the umbrella. BTW, how is shooting through an umbrella for fill lighting? Probably not as diffuse as bounce lighting I would imagine.


I advise the silver/white umbrella. It will tend to be potentially the most useful to you. Anything you might use shooting thru a translucent umbrella, the softbox will do better. And if you had two of the silver/white umbrellas you would be set for doing prom pak type work as a two umbrella outfit is very quick to setup, easy to use. The silver on the main would give you a little more sparkle while remaining soft and the white on fill would perform as I listed previously.



What do you do for background lighting or back lighting? Can you use your reflectors somehow? I've noticed that background lighting can add a lot of depth to a shot. That would be especially good for portraits, which is what I'll be starting out with primarily. Out of curiosity, how much do you think one should spend on those? I was originally looking at a Photoflex set of 5 32" reflectors with a holding stand. It's $160. I just bought a car windshield sun screen that's gold on one side and silver on the other for $3. I figured I might start with that. :D OK, so I need a helper, but for $3 I figured I can't go wrong.



Without a background light, everything behind the subject can go dead and lifeless. If your subject is close to the background, "spill" from your mainlight can illuminate it some but will not "define" anything in any special way.

I like six feet mininum between subject and background if I can have it. My background light of choice would be a unit similar to my main & fill but with a much snaller reflector, placed directly behind the subject and aimed so it's beam provides a background highlight around the shoulders of the subject. This is "eyeballed" from the camera position. A B400 with std 7" reflector and 20 degree or 30 degree grid should be perfect for this. (I have used a slaved Vivitar 283 on a short stand for this when I had no unit to use and "eyeballed" the flash pattern to position it, then verified with a polaroid test. Digital SLR with review LCD would serve same purpose.)

A Vivitar 283 on a tall light stand behind the background, aimed down at the subject position (fitted with a black paper "snoot") can do double duty as a hairlight and separation backlight of sorts. You adjust the thyristor control until you get the effect you want in tests. I've done this doing prom paks at formal military ball events.

If your budget will stand it, order 2 B800's and 1 B400 (for backlight), start out with 2 umbrellas and master that setup. You could even use the background light without the grid, using the power control to drop the output down to just highlight an area around the lower head and shoulders.

Then add the softbox and whatever else you actually need as you become sure you REALLY NEED it.



Then there's those with dark hair. How do you do hair lighting without that 4th light? As always, ideas/suggestions are always appreciated.

-Deva

You try to light the background so dark hair doesn't disappear against dark background tones.

Bruce Foreman

[Vegas Poboy]

Dphoto,
Your very welcome for the info, I'm always looking for good advice & willing to pass on what I've learned. I totally agree with the following.

If your budget will stand it, order 2 B800's and 1 B400 (for backlight), start out with 2 umbrellas and master that setup. You could even use the background light without the grid, using the power control to drop the output down to just highlight an area around the lower head and shoulders. I advise the silver/white umbrella. It will tend to be potentially the most useful to you.

If you're only doing Portraits I recommend Sekonic L-358 for a light meter

Books on lighting, They're many on the market my favorites right now can be purchased from Amazon or Buy.com
Portrait Photography- Secrets of posing & lighting by Mark Cleghorn &
Posing & Lighting Techniques by JJ Allen

The Carry Bag I purchased is Tamarac 684 But I got a major discount on it from attending a trade show. It holds everyting but my reflectors.

My basic two light set up is Key Light Reflector fill & background lighting or use the softbox from the key light and have it overflow to the background. When I need three lights I use the umbrella as a fill.

Photoflex makes a very good prduct but they cost. Wescott just as good and a litlle cheaper. Your basic light stand is good & purchase the holder for about $75.00.

Remember to save money start off slowly and keep good notes. Expand as you need it and once you go though a couple of books you'll pick up some good cheap short cuts.

Good Luck

[Bruce Foreman]

One thing to watch when purchasing umbrellas.

Shaft size.

I had 3 silver umbrellas left over from previous studio stuff, 2 have the thinner shaft and one has a real sturdy thicker shaft. This thicker shaft does not fit the channel on my AB B800's, which is OK because the 2 others do.

You can be sure the ones AB sells do fit.

Bruce Foreman

[dphoto]

Hey Guys,

Wow, more great info! For starters, I've decided to take a little trip to the library this weekend. It certainly can't hurt! Bruce, thanks for the tip about umbrellas. In fact, compatibility is something I've always got in mind when considering products from different manufacturers. That's why I know what a speed ring is. :D Oh, and thanks for the prom pack idea. That's a great idea. I was at a kickboxing match last year and the event photographer had an area with a backdrop and two umbrellas setup. Looks like a very basic yet effective way to go while on location. I have more questions/ideas, so if you guys get tired of it at any time, just stop answering. :D But seriously, I do appreciate the help. The price tag is looking much more reasonable. To help facilitate future discussion, here is my revised shopping list:

2 B800 strobes ($280 each) $560
1 B400 strobe $225
1 background light stand $25
1 10' light stand $40
1 13' light stand $70
2 silver/white umbrellas ($30 each) $60
1 set of 6 colored filters $22

15% accessory discount ($33)

Total $969

In addition, I can purchase a single honeycomb filter (10, 20, 30, or 40 degrees) for $30, or I can get all four for $100. With the 15% discount, that would be $26 or $85 respectively if I make the purchase with the lights. If I get only a single one, I would start with either a 20 or 30 degree (not sure which yet). Any ideas? Are the 10 or 40 useful? I don't plan on doing just portraits, and I'm thinking the 10 could be used for some dramatic effects.

Also, the 32"x40" softbox is $110 ($94 with light purchase). From everything I've read, I'll almost certainly be using a softbox. It would also give me something to compare head-to-head with the umbrellas when experimenting.

Finally, when I was originally considering reflectors for fill lighting, someone mentioned that a strobe for fill is "better" because it allows better control of lighting ratios. I'm sure reflectors can be used for a different effect entirely, but I'm wondering if I need them? Just looking at the AlienBees 42" reflectors, they are $70 for a set of 5, plus $30 for a mounting bracket that allows them to be held by one of the stands I'm purchasing. With discount, that's $85 for the whole setup. Any ideas on this one?

Vegas, thanks for the tip on the Sekonic L-358 meter. It looks like it's $219 at B&H, which seems to be a great price for what the meter does. Are you sure I need something so fancy? Or is that one of those things that will just save me a ton of headaches (which I like to do, BTW)? Oh, and nice light case you got there. That thing is awesome! :D

Thanks again for all the help!
-Deva

[TonyKInTexas]

"Great" protraits are taken by photographers who understand light and how to bend it to their will. Reflects and one light (or even outdoors in shade) can be used to great advantage.

My point? That it is not the equipment, which is very good equipment (I own a B800 and a B400) that makes great protraits.

My suggestion is learn how to light with one light, with and without a reflector to help control shadows and then gradually add the other lights in as needed.

Take care,

Well, as some of you know, I have been looking to buy a studio lighting setup for a few months now. I've put together a setup from Alien Bees that I feel pretty good about, but seeing as how I'm still pretty new to a lot of this, I'd love it if some of you who know a little more about lighting wouldn't mind taking a look at it. If anything looks questionable, or you think I might have a better time of it going another way, then please let me know.

OK, here's the list. <gulp> I can't even believe I'm contemplating spending this much money on lighting... :D

4 B800 strobes ($280 each) $1120
4 carrying bags ($13 each) $52
1 backlight stand $25
1 10' light stand $40
2 13' light stands ($70 each) $140
1 boom arm $60
1 48" silver/white umbrella $30
1 48" gold/silver umberlla $30
1 48" translucent/white umbrella $30
1 48" brolly box $40
1 32"x40" softbox (w/speedring) $110
1 set 20 colored filters $50
1 set barn doors $50
1 set of 4 honeycomb grids
(includes 10, 20, 30, and 40 degree grids) $100

20% accessory discount ($151)

Total $1725


It's going to take a lot of time to pay this stuff off, so I really don't want to spend money where I don't have to. On the other hand, I really want to be able to take great portraits, and I know that lighting is key.

Thanks for any input/suggestions. I think I need to sweat this out for a couple more days before I get my credit card handy. Oh man, why is this so painful? Some people have fun spending money... I just don't see how they do it. :D

-Deva
Naive 300D owner who thought he would spend $999 and be done! :D

[TonyKInTexas]

I come from the "show me" school, so here is a recent shot using a B800 with AB's large softbox as my main and a B400 with the AB standard umbrella (at 1/2 power) as my fill. The 8x10 is very nice and without a lot of work it could probably support 16x20.
http://www.pbase.com/image/32363043.jpg

This is from when I first got my lights (summer 2003) and I don't remember if this is the B800 or B400. I suspect it was the B400 as I started using it first. I also used a PhotoFlex medium softbox.
http://www.pbase.com/image/18361115.jpg

I wish I had more portraits available but I don't.[/img]

[Vegas Poboy]

Vegas, thanks for the tip on the Sekonic L-358 meter. It looks like it's $219 at B&H, which seems to be a great price for what the meter does. Are you sure I need something so fancy? Or is that one of those things that will just save me a ton of headaches (which I like to do, BTW)? Oh, and nice light case you got there. That thing is awesome! :D

Thanks again for all the help!
-Deva[/quote]

Really this is a basic meter with alot of features considering the amount you're going to save the $219 is nothing.

[Vegas Poboy]

Vegas, thanks for the tip on the Sekonic L-358 meter. It looks like it's $219 at B&H, which seems to be a great price for what the meter does. Are you sure I need something so fancy? Or is that one of those things that will just save me a ton of headaches (which I like to do, BTW)? Oh, and nice light case you got there. That thing is awesome! :D

Thanks again for all the help!
-Deva[/quote]

Really this is a basic meter with alot of features considering the amount you're going to save the $219 is nothing.

[dphoto]

Hey TonyK,

Thanks for your added input.

"Great" protraits are taken by photographers who understand light and how to bend it to their will. Reflects and one light (or even outdoors in shade) can be used to great advantage.

You are very correct. In the end, I'm going to have to understand a lot more about light than I do now. But I also need some equiptment to experiment with. Even if I buy 3 lights, you better believe I'll be testing 1 light to see what I can do with that.

Those are some nice shots, BTW. I especially like the skull shot... those are some cool shadows you got going on there.

Vegas, you are right about the meter... $219 is a great deal for it considering others I've seen with less features in the same price range. You can also buy an adapter for it that will allow it to work as a spot meter. :D

Thanks again for the input!
-Deva