Is B&H a monopoly?

[Cadenza]

Everytime a newbie comes by and asks
for a recommendation of where he/she can
get a lens or something for their EOS,
invariably someone will recommend
B&H. As a satisfied B&H customer many times
in the past, I'm beginning to wonder if we
should keep shopping there on our default
mode, as I bet many of us have B&H's site
bookmarked.

It seems to me like B&H has a virtual
monopoly on professional photo gear, I
wouldn't be surprised if more than 50%
of pro photogs in the U.S. didn't buy
something or other from them every
year. And their international presence is
ever greater, they even have scams that
allows them to sell tax-free goods to certain
countries, so they're poised to take over
the world.

So they have a classic monopoly situation,
holding the lion's share of the specialized
photography market, while having successfully
marginalized the competition. They set the
prices, and their competitors are greatly
disadvantaged. I remember I was in a photo
equip shop in California, and ask a counter
person the price of a bulk roll of film once, and
he wasn't sure. So in my full view, he went online
to B&H's site and got the price from them!

Should this concern us, who are part of the
humongous market for photographic equipment?
Wouldn't more competition among sellers
lead to better prices, better customer service,
and greater satisfaction? After all, the reason
Canon puts out such amazing products is not
because it loves us, but because they know
we'll defect to Nikon if they don't keep their
game up.

[rsnadel]

Not a monopoly...but certainly a company that has more supporters than detractors. There are plenty of other reputable online retailers out there. In addition to B&H, I regularly use
www.onecall.com
www.17photo.com
www.amazon.com

and often read of people who swear by places that I haven't used, like
www.newegg.com
www.tallyns.com
www.bestpriceaudiovideo.com
www.butterflyphoto.com

Best advice is if you don't have personal knowledge of the store's reliability, check it out at www.resellerratings.com to see what other people are saying about it.

[TonyKInTexas]

Why should it concern us? If they make good on their prices, follow through on delivery and in general perform as expected.

They are also not a monopoly. They get a lot of recommendations but not all recommendations. And no one is forcing a person to purchase from B&H.

Take a "true" monopoly. In a true monopoly there is no choice. Try buying a Intel based PC and ask for a different OS. Not likely to happen except from same specialized shops. And then the only other OS at this time is Linux (or a flavor of Unix like FreeBSD).

Until about 20 years ago, getting phone service meant "1" company, Ma Bell (in the USA).

No, B&H does not even come close to being a monopoly.


Everytime a newbie comes by and asks
for a recommendation of where he/she can
get a lens or something for their EOS,
invariably someone will recommend
B&H. As a satisfied B&H customer many times
in the past, I'm beginning to wonder if we
should keep shopping there on our default
mode, as I bet many of us have B&H's site
bookmarked.

...

Should this concern us, who are part of the
humongous market for photographic equipment?
Wouldn't more competition among sellers
lead to better prices, better customer service,
and greater satisfaction? After all, the reason
Canon puts out such amazing products is not
because it loves us, but because they know
we'll defect to Nikon if they don't keep their
game up.

[robertwgross]

Although I order most stuff from B&H, I also shop around at Adorama and a few of those, just to keep B&H on their toes.

---Bob Gross---

[johneo]

Although I order most stuff from B&H, I also shop around at Adorama and a few of those, just to keep B&H on their toes.

---Bob Gross---

I'm just the opposite ... I give most of my money to Adorama with a few orders to B&H.

I really have noticed no difference between the two. Even prices, while not usually the lowest, are usually about the same.

[Mike H]

In real life I'm actually an economist, so I can give you a professional opinion on the subject: No, B&H is not a monopoly. They lack the power to exclude, which can come from a few sources.

One source of monopoly power is the government; they can grant legal rights to a sole source if they so desire. That certainly isn't happening here. Another source (also granted and enforced by government) is patent protection, not the case here either.

Then there is what economists call economies of scale. If it's cheaper to produce something on a large scale, and if there is a scale that can provide enough supply to answer all of the market demand through one very efficient supplier, the supplier can force everyone else out of business by achieving a lower cost structure than their potential competitors, making entry into the market impossible. A market that will always (when left unregulated) result in one large, efficient firm taking over is referred to as a "natural monopoly." Power companies usually fall into this category. For the public good, these are allowed to exist (to gain the efficiency) but are regulated by government (usually a "public service commission"). B&H certainly hasn't achieved anything like that.

Microsoft has achieved a de facto monopoly, though there is some debate whether it's through the efficiency of having one dominant operating system maker or through some rather nasty business practices. (Gee, I hope they don't read that ... I need to use computers in my profession.)

In the photo business, there are economies of scale for dealers. Years ago I asked a local store to match B&H's price on a camera and the owner got upset and said that their price was less than he paid as a dealer!

But there are lots of other large-scale companies out there selling the same equipment ... Calumet, Ritz, etc., as well as thousands of small retailers across the country. So no, B&H isn't a monopoly, though it's possible that they could get there. I find it very hard to believe that it will happen. The manufacturers see it as being in their best interest to keep local dealers going (someone has to demo their stuff to people that don't read this learned board).

The more interesting question to me is whether Canon will become a monopoly camera maker. Research and design costs are so high now that perhaps there are prohibitive economies-of-scale. When I started in photography, there was the big five: Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, and Minolta. Now it's just a big two for SLRs, and Nikon may tank. I hope Nikon, etc., don't go away; competition is good for the consumer (us).

Mike H

[defordphoto]

I buy most of my products from B&H, but not all. I recently purchased quick release plates for my new Bogen-Manfrotto tripod from a local store for less than B&H sells them.

I also have not purchased any of my cameras from B&H. My D60 was from Ritz, my 10d and MKII were from CDW.

I get my memory cards from www.mydigitaldiscount.com

But, overall, I'll always recommend B&H. Adorama...I've been reading far too many complaints about them as of late. Samys, Canoga, Normans are also on the hot list of people to buy from in my world.

[Motorsports Photo]

Henry Posner of B&H was on the internet when I first became a 'netizen about 10 years ago. I think he was smart to see the value in it and look where it went in those ten years!!

With all the REALLY BAD stories we hear about retailers, B&H has a very large group of cutomers that also are a part of the 'net, that actually are satisfied. Thats a tough act to follow.

I have bought a few things from them, and never had a problem, but I'm not really a frequent customer.

Hats off to B&H for making satisfied customers, unlike most of todays corporations who try their best to CHEAT people.

-Pete

[CoolToolGuy]

Adorama looks like a good place to buy online, although I have not dealt with them. KEH is a good place to buy online, and I have bought from them. But in both cases, their selection is limited. They do not have the entire Canon catalog online like B&H does (not to mention other manufacturers). So if I am looking for something I know I can find it on B&H's web site. That in itself is a huge advantage, and their prices are competitive. If they are out of stock, then I go look somewhere else.

This is similar to the Sears catalog in years past. Because so much was in it, it became a standard reference guide for builders and contractors.

I do try to spread my business around. There is a local camera store that gets most of my camera and lens business, and another that I will patronize occasionally. And Best Buy gets a lot of my computer and software business. But with the service and performance that B&H provides, I will continue to give them my business. More power to them.

Have Fun,

[CyberDyneSystems]

Ritz is a monopoly now.. But B&H has plenty of competitors online.

[timmyquest]

No...hardly.

A monopoly is when a single company takes advantage of the fact that no one can compete and raises the prices.

B&H, Newegg and the like...they are good companies.

My friend was looking at buying a mouse for his computer, i gave him a link to newegg.com and the first thing he said was "Whats up with this stuff? Why is it so cheap?"

That made me feel good, another one converted, he's now paying what he should.

[Cadwell]

I've never bought anything from B&H. Of course, they're the wrong side of the pond from me which does make a difference. I did try to buy something from them once but they wanted a faxed photocopy of my credit card as an "overseas customer" :? When I asked my credit card company whether I should do this they said "No way!". As long as they keep behaving that way I can't see them becoming any kind of monopoly.

[Jemmind]

I just went to www.newegg.com.
They list 18 Canon digital camera that they carry.
EVERY single one is out of stock.
8 Nikon cameras and all out of stock too.
Most of their PC games are out of stock too....
What's up with this site?
I thought it was supposed to be all that :wink:

Julie

[Orogeny]

Julie,

I don't know whats up with NewEgg, but I have been buying from them (computer parts mostly) for the last 4 years and they have been great. Photography is only a very small part of their business.

Tim

[timmyquest]

I just went to www.newegg.com.
They list 18 Canon digital camera that they carry.
EVERY single one is out of stock.
8 Nikon cameras and all out of stock too.
Most of their PC games are out of stock too....
What's up with this site?
I thought it was supposed to be all that :wink:

Julie

They specialize in computer hardware. They sell cameras and video games, but that is not what they are about.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Yes.. I have been using NewEgg as a system builder since.. well long before they were called NewEgg....


It's a long story.. but the chain "Egghead" was failing and closed all there stores. They liquidated, merged with "Deal Deal.com" and became "egghead" on line...

Still went belly up.. filed chapter something or other.. and came back as Newegg.

[Jemmind]

I just thought since it was listed as a good online retailer in a thread about a big camera monopoly in a photo forum, it would have cameras in stock...my bad :) guess I was wrong
:oops:

Julie

[Jon]

Ritz is a monopoly now.. But B&H has plenty of competitors online.

No - Ritz may be a mallnopoly, but there are plenty of other brick-and-mortar places around, even here in their home turf outside DC.

[Motorsports Photo]

Ordered one of the Lexar 1 gig cCF cards. Ordered on the 27th. Not shipped until the 31st. Shipped in a soft plastic envelope and the box was CRUSHED.

Poor packing is my first issue.

When placed in my 10D the camera said "No CF card"

My reader could see it, format it AND write to it, but the camers said no.

DOA brings me to a slow simmer...

After sitting throught the press some dumb number to get where you dont really want to go anyway, I did get shuffled to the return dept. They DID handle the UPS return label OK, but heres the pain- They wont do ANYTHING about a replacement until they get this broken one back! The parrot just kept reading his script. Even telling him I dont care if they charge me a sceond time and then credit me, didn't alter his speech pattern.

Good thing my MICRODRIVE is still going strong! :D

-Pete

[Longwatcher]

Just getting out of my system, which is why I used this thread.

The evil B&H because of the evil/conniving Canon. Shipped my new toy today. So of course I have to travel all of next week (as in I get back Friday around midnight (and if the airlines cooperate). So unfair; couldn't Canon have gotten it to them a couple of days earlier so I could have played with it over the Labor Day weekend, No that would have ruined their evil marketing strategy.

There I think I have most of it out of my system now.

I am impatiently waiting for the new Canon XL-2 video camera. To be fair BH is not at blame (at least I hope not), but I do think Canon should have released for 31 Aug instead of 2 Sept.

I got it for three reasons.

1. I want one (this one is probably 80% of the reason)

2. I have a deal where I can make it available for rent (thus recoping some of the cost)

3. One of my friends runs a 'pay-per-view' site and if I ever shoot for him, he said it would make the shoot more valuable (ie I get more money) if I can shoot a short behind the scenes video to go with the stills.

4. One of the primary things I wanted in a video camera was the ability to be compatable with my camera lenses. With the adapter it is (sort of in my mind). the crop factor is about 12x so that makes my 16-35 a telephoto lens, think what I can do with my 100-400 with extenders (ignoring the fact it will be too dark to see anything). The cool part for me is the video camera is almost better then the orginal video camera on the USAF's Predator.

Did I mention that I was impatiently waiting for it....

Thanks for your patience,

[Ronin]

No, they're definitely not a monopoly. They have plenty of competitors.

I prefer OneCall myself because it's relatively close to where I am (Vancouver, BC) and I usually get stuff shipped to Point Roberts, WA where is 15 minutes away. Then I just bring it back over the border like nothing happened. :)

I visited their actual retail location in Spokane recently. It's pretty damn big and everyone is friendly. Shipping is cheap since it's within the same state and costs roughly $5 for a relatively good sized shipment (two lenses and a bag)