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Dream Merchant
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 07:31
Hi,

I have this unique predicament. I'm afraid it's a bit long, and ask that you bear with me.

We've all heard of photographers having problems collecting payment, but I am in a situation where I don't feel happy collecting payment because the results aren't what was planned/envisioned.

It is also, very clearly not my fault, a fact that was acknowledged by the Client (also have a disclaimer). But at the same time, not collecting payment or requesting for a lowered fee may set a precedence with this repeat Client, who, for the most part, are decent.

I was hired to shoot an important marathon where there would be about 40,000 athletes not including spectators, crew, security and all the rest. Our agreement was to shoot the company's runners in the masses as they go by a cheering team, and then onto the finish line. Objective was photos that reflected 'team-work and team-spirit'. The shots had to be real-life ones and not a re-enactment or posed shot.

I spent about a week talking with the organisers about logistics and obtaining security clearance, and finally had a plan, which I ran by the Client with maps and detailed outlines etc, and after a lot of initial problems and changes, we finally settled on a plan, and a back-up.

Knowing that there was room for too much error, I heavy-heartedly sent my Client a disclaimer outlining the potential problems (on their side - they did not do what was supposed to have been arranged by them) and that I would more than try my best to deliver. Client acknowledged the disclaimer within moments of receiving it. I guess I should point out that refusing to accept this assignment was out of the question as I've been their exclusive photographer for several years now.

On the day of the race, the most important factors were the positioning of the cheer team, my spotter with a radio walkie-talkie placed >100 meters ahead, and for the runners in the company's corporate gear to run in the extreme left lane close to where the cheering team was (supposed to be). All these were confirmed to be very possible on race day itself.

This is where everything went wrong.

The cheer team never made it to the agreed position, and despite repeated call attempts as well as text messages, I could not locate them, get an answer or the person in charge to pick up the phone. It might be noted that this person was not entirely happy leading the cheer team in the first place.

As the runners approached the shoot zone, the spotter radioed my assistant who then alerted me, and I just shot them as individual runners running their own race, while all the while frantically trying to look out for the cheer team. Shooting conditions were challenging in very harsh morning side-way sunlight.

After probably what was half of the company's runners finishing the race, I finally spotted the cheer team, on the opposite side of the lanes, away from the runners, and about 200 meters from the agreed cheering position. I promptly sent my assistant to get them to move to the correct position, but they simply refused out-right.

Another two factors were that the runners did not run in the left lanes, and not all of them were wearing the corporate attire. Hence, I could not spot and shoot more than half of them!

After the race, I spoke to the MD of the company, and while he was clearly disappointed, and that more than half the runners were missed (because they were not in corporate gear or in the agreed left lanes), I had to repeatedly point out that it was due to a clear lack of co-operation on the part of some of the staff. His disbelief in that the cheering team refused to move forced me to call in my assistant to be a witness.

Now, as I go through the editing work of the miniscule amount of photos, I feel fairly disgusted at the results - I can imagine deriving absolutely no satisfaction in delivering these shots and even though the Client is aware of the problems caused by the staff, and that there's a disclaimer in place, I just do not feel like collecting more than costs. I fear that this may somehow send a message to the Client that the dismal results was in some way my fault (Clients in my neck of woods are funny in that way - it's a cultural thing), even though it's crystal clear to me it wasn't, unless I missed something along the way. What possible negative (to me and future dealings) precedence do you think this would set?

How should I act? After all, like I mentioned earlier, they are decent clients and I thought of doing something to 'soften the blow' for the lack of results, which were, and I emphasize, not my fault IMHO.

Am I being totally crazy?

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts.

PhotosGuy
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 09:33
the runners did not run in the left lanes, and not all of them were wearing the corporate attire. You planned ahead & did your best. In your place, I would charge them the agreed rate.
BUT, I would have tried to have someone placed high in the corporation with me so things like but they simply refused out-right. wouldn't come up.

cdifoto
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 09:38
I am in a situation where I don't feel happy collecting payment because the results aren't what was planned/envisioned.

It is also, very clearly not my fault, a fact that was acknowledged by the Client (also have a disclaimer).

I don't need to read any more than this. Collect your payment as contracted.

Ultimate CC
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 09:43
collect your payment, i understand where you are coming from but its not your fault...

Curtis N
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 09:44
Brett Favre gets paid to do his best, even when his linemen miss a blitz and he gets knocked on his can.

You did your job. Send your client the invoice with a clear conscience.

New Hobby
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 09:55
I would add one caveat. This is a client you have had for many years, so I would bill in full but you might want to talk with them after (if they want to) to discuss it. Getting the full amount it great but losing a long term client is not good. Win the battle, lose the war comes to mind.

cdifoto
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 09:58
I would add one caveat. This is a client you have had for many years, so I would bill in full but you might want to talk with them after (if they want to) to discuss it. Getting the full amount it great but losing a long term client is not good. Win the battle, lose the war comes to mind.

Doesn't sound to me like there is a battle. OP would be setting a completely unnecessary and potentially dangerous precedent by discounting right off the bat. OP is the one disgusted with the results - the client is nothing more than disasppointed. But not at the OP's work...at the entire outcome and photographic results.

Discount if you don't perform as a result of your own design - don't discount if you don't perform as a result of others not performing.

New Hobby
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 10:11
Doesn't sound to me like there is a battle. OP would be setting a completely unnecessary and potentially dangerous precedent by discounting right off the bat. OP is the one disgusted with the results - the client is nothing more than disasppointed. But not at the OP's work...at the entire outcome and photographic results.

Discount if you don't perform as a result of your own design - don't discount if you don't perform as a result of others not performing.

I agree thats why bill in full is the first step. It might end there and they just pay. I'm saying keep an open mind if they come back after they get the bill and have "questions".

cdifoto
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 10:12
I'm saying keep an open mind if they come back after they get the bill and have "questions".

I wouldn't. I did my job. You (your employees, whoever) didn't do yours (theirs). I'll answer your questions, but you still have to pay me in full. Simple.

New Hobby
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 10:17
I wouldn't. I did my job. They didn't do theirs. Pay me. Simple.

Only issue with going with that stance is they may never call you again for a job. I'm saying bill in full. But if there is push back, keep an open mind. It could be politics.

cdifoto
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 10:22
Only issue with going with that stance is they may never call you again for a job. I'm saying bill in full. But if there is push back, keep an open mind. It could be politics.

I say stand your ground. If they've never tried to bargain before, they probably won't this time. If they do, and you give in, then it's a client that'll keep trying to reduce the rate time and time again by nitpicking.

Give a bully your lunch money once, and he'll take it from you every day.

New Hobby
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 10:28
I say stand your ground. If they've never tried to bargain before, they probably won't this time. If they do, and you give in, then it's a client that'll keep trying to reduce the rate time and time again by nitpicking.

Give a bully your lunch money once, and he'll take it from you every day.

I think its a bit early to discuss nexts steps. First things first. Bill in full.

If and only if they have "questions" there are more things that could be done other then dropping the rate.

rhys
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 11:19
The cheer team refused to co-operate. End of matter. Bill and wait for the money.

milleker
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 11:26
I'm reminded of a rather crude saying.. You can't polish a turd. You shot it for what it was, were completely ready for the plan to fall into place and it did not.

Bill in full and let them know you had a rough time shooting around the disorganized nature of the event to try to get them the shots they wanted.

sspellman
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 12:01
With any long term client, you should simply be able to talk with them directly on all issues including billing. You can simply say to them "In spite of very careful planning and my best efforts, I do not feel that we got the best results on this project. How should we handle billing?"

-Scott

Dream Merchant
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 12:17
Thanks for chimming in so quickly guys. :)

I'll add a few points that have surfaced from the replies...

1) This client, like just about every single client in my country has bargained before, but I have managed to gradually increase rates (with valid substantiation), and they have accepted my rate increase over the years/projects. On my part, with every project, I offer to assist in some way or another to make the increase easier to accept. I position it as 'value-add services' that other photographer may refuse to take on, or would charge substantially for.

Everything went successfully for 3 years and this is the first crash.

2) Some politics are involved, as is many internal sensitivities, but this is not surprising with many corporations.

3) My professional and ethical stand is to bill and collect in full, but my heart feels otherwise.

One of the reasons was pointed out by New Hobby - that of winning the battle (already won actually - no disputes about the rates but I have yet to collect...unless Client says something when I collect) and losing the war.

On the whole, I fell that they are quite decent as a Client and would really like to keep them.

Despite some operational or logistical problems with just about every job, everything turns out great. I just have to constantly remind them of operational realities (from a logistical, technical and photographic POV). I've had far, far worse clients. I won't even classify them as being anything close to a 'turd'.

Triptoph
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 12:33
I would bill them in full, but contact them shortly after they have had a chance to see the bill and just discuss it; Perhaps mentioning that you were disappointed with the results and unfortunate scenario of the day, bringing yourself to their side to sort of commiserate about the less than ideal happenings of the shoot. If you know of the next project with the client maybe mention that you look forward to better success with that project...

Robert16
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 12:53
My gut reaction would be to ask for your full fee. You did a lot of prep. Assistant with 2way radio? Be as nice as you can but don't sell yourself short. I know you have said they are good people - then they will understand the time and effort you put into this gig and your need to pay the bills.

Robert16
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 12:54
If you know of the next project with the client maybe mention that you look forward to better success with that project...
Oh! And that as well.:)

Dream Merchant
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 13:19
Thanks guys.

Actually I knida emphasised on race day itself after the race when I spoke with the MD that I did 'more than my best'. I also made clear, very specifically, what went wrong and the parties involved (corporate attire, lane position and the cheer team failure). In actual fact, I took on quite a few of the planning responsibilities that were supposed to have been managed by the appointed manager, who was totally bogged down with other assignments.

I think i know what to do.

Since the main issue is the dismal outcome of photographs, and since I do have a few good individual shots, as well as the group shots, I can montage some of them and add the company's logo and design a tag-line to form a much better looking presentation rather than that one large money-shot.

I'll do two versions and get them blown up at no extra charge. I know I don't have to, but I guess I'm hoping it would allievate the overall gloomy feelings and make it a win-win situation for both parties.

I'll use sspellman's suggestion and position it as: "In spite of very careful planning and my best efforts, I do not feel that we got the best results on this project. However, I have taken some extra time and did something specially for you which to me reflects 'team-spirit' quite nicely." and present the prints.

What do you guys think?

New Hobby
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 13:24
I think that is a winner of an approach.

SingingSabre
6th of December 2007 (Thu), 23:41
I think that is a winner of an approach.
+1

I'd be sad, but accepting, of having to pay in full for a poorly done job, especially if it was the fault of my employees. However, that would be totally alleviated seeing the effort and recovery of my in-house photographer. It's why we stick with him, after all.

whiskaz
12th of December 2007 (Wed), 13:41
Objective was photos that reflected 'team-work and team-spirit'.

Oh the irony in the outcome :)