Adding 383's as slaves

[jptsr1]

I want to get my 383 supers into the mix as slaves for my 580. what do you guys use to trigger them? I'm looking for optical units. has anyone had problems with the 580ex firing optical slaves? is this one any good? http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CG2500/

J.

[Curtis N]

I've got one of those. Works fine on my Sunpak 383.

[jptsr1]

I've got one of those. Works fine on my Sunpak 383.

Thanks!

J.

[Curtis N]

By the way, if you want to pack some power into one spot, that slave will fire two Sunpaks at once. One on its hotshoe and one plugged into its PC socket.

[jptsr1]

By the way, if you want to pack some power into one spot, that slave will fire two Sunpaks at once. One on its hotshoe and one plugged into its PC socket.

man, you are a mind reader! i was just going to ask if that was possible. I'm still going to order 2 of them for the times i want to put a 383 on either side of the frame.

J.

[jptsr1]

i thought i would post this here rather than start a new thread. i received my Wein Hot Shoe Slaves yesterday and they work like a charm. they fire my 383's much more reliably off of my 580 than my 430 will fire. i can place both flashes well behind me or behind my subject and they will still fire (something my 430 would not do because of line of sight issues i guess). the range of the Wein slaves is much greater than the dedicated canon system as well. another thing that i did not figure into the equation is you need not be a metering expert in order to work out different lighting schemes. I have been able to adjust each 383 using the auto flash function to create different lighting effects (although kicking them into manual and firing of a few test frames is easier for me).

im not knocking the dedicated canon system all im saying is that the Wein setup is a lot easier and cheaper in my mind. the slaves have their limitations as well. for instance you need to walk over to the off camera flashes to make adjustments. i could see that being a problem when i take pictures at church. for instance if i put the 383's up in the balcony point them down into the sanctuary where im taking pictures and then need to adjust the power. also, the fact that any flash will fire them is a bit of a pain. so, im not going to go and dump my remaining 430 but i think it will see more use on days i want to carry a light kit than as a slave.

J.

[Curtis N]

Why Canon refuses to include a simple optical slave capability in its flash units is beyond me. All the hardware is there (in the 430EX and 580EX II), they just need the programming.

And you have discovered one of the reasons the simple optical slave is superior. Since it's triggered by the full power of the "real" flash, instead of some low-powered light command from a Canon wireless master, an optical slave works in many situations where the Canon wireless system won't.

Every studio monolight manufactured has a built-in optical slave. At least two aftermarket E-TTL compatible flash units have built-in optical slaves. Most other flash units will at least work with a slave attachment. But Canon still hasn't come down off the high horse of their wireless flash system to join the rest of the world.

[jptsr1]

Why Canon refuses to include a simple optical slave capability in its flash units is beyond me. All the hardware is there (in the 430EX and 580EX II), they just need the programming.


only thing i can imagine is maybe they are trying to create some sort of path dependency? still i couldn't see having the feature doing anything but increasing flash sales for them. really the only downside I see so far with the optical slaves is other people setting off my flash. any other issue with the setup is something I'm willing to deal with for the cost and versatility.

J.

[jptsr1]

one other thing i want to mention before i let this thread drift off into oblivion. again, this is just for anyone searching for info on this particular slave setup like i was (383 super and Wein Hot Shoe Slave). the current wein hot-shoe adapter accounts for the preflash you get in ETTL. in other words your slave flash will not fire prematurely due to the preflash of your Canon xxx-EX. as a matter of fact it wont even fire from the red-eye reduction flash on my little canon point and shoot. i don't know how it differentiates between the two and to be honest i don't really care. im sure it has to do with the intensity of the flash or the dilithium crystals in the warp drive or one of the many other things i don't understand.

point is if you are searching like i was when i decided to look for a cheep wireless way to fire my 383's you have undoubtedly come across many post in this and other forums stating that you must put your xxx-EX in manual or it will not fire your slave properly via the wein adapter. this is not true of this model (although it did apparently plague its predecessor and does still the wein peanut). anyway, im probably the only one that didnt know this because it says it right on the package but in case there's one other person that's it in a nut shell.

J.

Edit: although i still think the wein slaves are the greatest thing since sliced bread i was mistaken in saying that they will not fire from the pre-flash of an EX speedlite. my error was due to shooting in a room where the ambient light was so bright that the preflash was not detected by the slaves. still if you are shooting in manual mode i don't the the wein slaves can be beat for function at their price.

[Curtis N]

the current wein hot-shoe adapter accounts for the preflash you get in ETTL. in other words your slave flash will not fire prematurely due to the preflash of your Canon xxx-EX.Actually Wein makes a whole mess of optical slaves. Some are "for digital camera systems" and will supposedly ignore the pre-flash, but they come at about twice the price of the basic models.

Have a look:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=search&A=search&Q=&ci=0&sb=ps&sq=desc&ac=&bsi=&shs=wein&ci=8008&fakeSubmitButton=Submit+Query

It usually doesn't make much sens to mix E-TTL with manually controlled flash anyway (unless the slave is lighting the background or something).

[jptsr1]

Actually Wein makes a whole mess of optical slaves. Some are "for digital camera systems" and will supposedly ignore the pre-flash, but they come at about twice the price of the basic models.

Have a look:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=search&A=search&Q=&ci=0&sb=ps&sq=desc&ac=&bsi=&shs=wein&ci=8008&fakeSubmitButton=Submit+Query

It usually doesn't make much sens to mix E-TTL with manually controlled flash anyway (unless the slave is lighting the background or something).

again i gain from your flash wisdom sir! i wonder if i was sent the wrong one by mistake. i ordered both from Andorama and they were 29.95 a piece yet they are the type that is not effected by pre-flash. they are proving to been extremely reliable. I've been sitting here for a while trying to get them to misfire and it hasn't happened once. i agree that it is best to go manual with both the master and slave but had i started with a dedicated canon flash rather than the 383 the thought "manual" may have scared me off the proposition of the two flash setup to begin with.

gotta thank you again Curtis. from my first time using a hot-shoe flash a year ago until now you have been more help than every tutorial and manual I've read put together.

J.

[Curtis N]

Interesting.
Does it say "digital" anywhere on the packaging?

First thing I did when I got my 300D nearly three years ago was try to use the Wein slave with the pop-up flash and got frustrated when the flash fired but the picture was dark (before I knew about the pre-flash thing).

[jptsr1]

[quote=]Curtis N;4507108]Interesting.
Does it say "digital" anywhere on the packaging?
[quote]

just dug both boxes out the trash. I assumed the ones i have must be "for digital" because they were working but my box looks nothing like the box for the digital one i see on line. they say nothing about digital but the flash fires every time. could it be something else? I've tried every mode on the camera.

J.

[Curtis N]

Just make sure they're firing with the real flash and not the preflash. You won't know until you look at the pictures.

There will be times, depending on distance and line-of-sight, when the pre-flash is too weak to trigger them.

[jptsr1]

although i still think the wein slaves are the greatest thing since sliced bread i was mistaken in saying that they will not fire from the pre-flash of an EX speedlite. my error was due to shooting in a room where the ambient light was so bright that the preflash was not detected by the slaves. still if you are shooting in manual mode i don't the the wein slaves can be beat for function at their price.

J.

[claybuster]

although i still think the wein slaves are the greatest thing since sliced bread i was mistaken in saying that they will not fire from the pre-flash of an EX speedlite. my error was due to shooting in a room where the ambient light was so bright that the preflash was not detected by the slaves. still if you are shooting in manual mode i don't the the wein slaves can be beat for function at their price.

J.
I just got my 383 this week along with the wein slave. I got the non digital slave because I'm using them in manual,I almost made the mistake and got the digital slave at twice the price because I didn't know any better. I'm using my 580exII to fire the wein and 383 and it works great. I tried all kinds of things like shooting through an umrella bouncing out of an umbrella low power setting on the 580exII moving it far away from the 383 etc. And the 383 with the wein fired every time.
Mike

[jptsr1]

I just got my 383 this week along with the wein slave. I got the non digital slave because I'm using them in manual,I almost made the mistake and got the digital slave at twice the price because I didn't know any better. I'm using my 580exII to fire the wein and 383 and it works great. I tried all kinds of things like shooting through an umrella bouncing out of an umbrella low power setting on the 580exII moving it far away from the 383 etc. And the 383 with the wein fired every time.
Mike

manual is the way to go. even when you get the slaves to ignore the pre-flash you then have the problem of overexposure to deal with. like you im having fun just trying out all the different combinations. today i put one of my 383's inside my X-mass tree and shot it from 20 feet away and it still fired. I've put it out in the hallway, put it in other rooms, put it behind stuff and BANG it fires every time.

J.