Canon 5D, Heart Nebula (5 Hours Total Exposure)

[Nighthound]

I'm still tweaking the processing on this but thought I'd post the preliminary version for feedback. Total of 5 hours exposure, 60 x 300 sec. combined. My longest exposure to date and my first deep sky object shot with the 5D.The light collected from this nebula took about 6,000 years to travel to Earth.

Takahashi Sky 90 II • Losmandy G-11 • Canon 5D(unmodified) • 1600 ISO, No flat or dark frames added • 60 x 300 sec. Unguided • Hutech IDAS Light Pollution Filter • Noel's Astro Tools

The Heart Nebula (IC 1805)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/Nighthd/Astrophotography/Heartnebtest2-1.jpg

Thanks for looking.

NH

[Siriusmuzik]

wow thats gorgeous...

[Nighthound]

Thanks siriusmuzik.

NH

[SBCmetroguy]

Simply amazing!! Wow... that's really all I can say. Wow! :)

[Dale Siscoe]

Steve, your images are amazing !

[TTk]

Wow...amazing stuff.......

[Adrena1in]

I'm still tweaking the processing on this but thought I'd post the preliminary version for feedback.
How, HOW can you possibly improve on that?!?!? :rolleyes:

[jaybird]

That is absolutely amazing! It reminds me of the shots NASA was showing.

[hard12find]

Another nice one Steve.....so you upgraded to FF from the 20D....that should help keep the noise down on the longer exposures...thanks for the continuing inspiration.
Jim

[Apollo11]

Absolutely gorgeous shot. Breathtaking!

[Jim G]

Stunning. Makes me want to get into astrophotography when I can afford it.

[Dave Harries]

Stunning, wish I had your patience

[JSJR4]

That is just totally unbelievable. Amazing:)

[Nighthound]

Thanks everyone for the kind comments, glad you enjoyed. The work invested in shots like these are always worth it when the final image appears on my monitor. The two nights that I shot this were both around 30 degrees F and with heavy frost on the second night. I didn't realize how frosty until dawn when the light revealed my entire mount and tripod were completely frosted over like a mug out of the freezer. All that frozen metal sure makes the hands chilly when packing everything up.

NH

[snevs]

Simply amazing. Phantastic.

[ErikM]

Not much else to say other than amazing! keep on posting these fantastic images!

[SoaringUSAEagle]

That's like something you see in a book or something!

Well done!

[ssidiv3r]

I'm speachless. It's simply amazing. I would have though with a total of 5 hours exposure that some kind of motion would be visible but I can't find any. That's a damn powerfull telescope.

[Nighthound]

Thanks very much snevs, Erik, Jeff and Chris.

Chris, no motion is visible because my telescope rides atop a mount that is computer driven to track any given object in the sky, moving at the same rate in which Earth is rotating on its axis. Otherwise, at 407mm(Sky 90) motion would be visible in a couple of seconds. A telescope's mount is the most important part of the equation as far as astrophotography gear goes.

NH

[ssidiv3r]

Thanks very much snevs, Erik, Jeff and Chris.

Chris, no motion is visible because my telescope rides atop a mount that is computer driven to track any given object in the sky, moving at the same rate in which Earth is rotating on its axis. Otherwise, at 407mm(Sky 90) motion would be visible in a couple of seconds. A telescope's mount is the most important part of the equation as far as astrophotography gear goes.

NH

I guess that explain why I couldn't see any motion, also makes me look foolish for not reading up on astrophotography :oops: Well, thanks for the info

[Nighthound]

No need to feel foolish Chris, it's taken a lot of time and effort for me to grasp this hobby. I'm always happy to answer questions and help anyway I can. Thanks again for commenting.

NH

[Stormin_24]

Simply incredible and totally awesome.... nuff said....:D

[Rob612]

All been said... im just adding to the bunch. Congrats man. Really.

[S.Horton]

Simply amazing.

How do you combine the exposures?

[drandtus]

Incredible! Thanks for sharing this, really ultracool.

[BenJammin]

Amazing shot and detail!

[calicokat]

Nicely done, very nicely done :)

[woody64]

Incredible shot, the detail is amazing. WOW

[IBLinKYI]

Wow, that is amazing. Can I print this shot later when I get home?

[Nighthound]

Thanks very much everyone.

Sam, I combine the subexposures in a software program designed specifically for astrophothography. "Stacking", as it's called, raises the signal(good stuff) and at the same time lowers the noise level that occurs when shooting extended exposures, especially at high ISO settings like 1600. Final image stretching is done in Photoshop CS3 using curves, levels and color saturation. I also use Noel Carboni's Astro Actions designed for Photoshop users.

lBLinKYl, sure as long as it's for your personal use although I don't know how well it will print. This image wasn't processed with print in mind. I would normally make adjustments to the file for output to best suit the printer and paper type.

NH

[andrewhuxman]

Now thats the coolest and best that Ive seen from a earth based set up.Have to call your set up the "Earth Hubbell" GREAT STUFF!!!!!!!!!

[IBLinKYI]

lBLinKYl, sure as long as it's for your personal use although I don't know how well it will print. This image wasn't processed with print in mind. I would normally make adjustments to the file for output to best suit the printer and paper type.

NH

Thanks man. Of course its for personal use. I love these types of images.:)

[qhorses]

That is Beautiful!!!

[Nathan James]

Steve, would you mind posting a photograph of your set-up? I have been interested in getting into Astrophotography, but have not yet made the leap. Would love to see your set-up.

Thanks,
Nate

[Nighthound]

Thanks Qhorses and Nate.

Nate, here's the scope used for this shot. The second shows the mount and the same scope in tandom with my Vixen R200SS Newtonian.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/Nighthd/Astrophotography/Astro%20Equipment/tak90-1.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/Nighthd/Astrophotography/Astro%20Equipment/vix90a.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/Nighthd/Astrophotography/Astro%20Equipment/viv90b.jpg

NH

[Nathan James]

Thanks for the photos. I am impressed at the quality of the image from the smaller of these two scopes. Excellent work. Approximately how much time would you say you spend post-processing to get to the results that you have been posting?

[D.C.]

This ia a great picture. Thanks for posting.

[R Hardman]

NH, Was your exposures all in one night? Do you have a wider FOV? All I can say is you set the bar for all of us to shoot for. Beautiful photo.

[EricL]

Thanks very much snevs, Erik, Jeff and Chris.

Chris, no motion is visible because my telescope rides atop a mount that is computer driven to track any given object in the sky, moving at the same rate in which Earth is rotating on its axis. Otherwise, at 407mm(Sky 90) motion would be visible in a couple of seconds. A telescope's mount is the most important part of the equation as far as astrophotography gear goes.

NH

Thanks Steve, you answered my question also. Super-great shot!!

[Nighthound]

Thanks everyone.

Nate, It's hard to calculate exactly how much time because I do a little bit each night and some on weekends. The stacking process takes very little time, maybe about 30 minutes or so, The real time invested comes in Photoshop, stretching the file and being careful not to overstretch and keep the stars from bloating as I go. I probably have about 12 hours total in processing, roughly.

Rick, thanks. I shot these subs over two nights. The first night was the first time ever that every exposure was a keeper(over 30). I was able to stretch the exposures to 7 minutes at times but not consistantly enough so I kept them to 5 minutes each. I'm not guiding so I'm at the mercy of my mount and the accuracy of my drift alignment.

Eric, you're welcome and thanks.

NH

[koalawalla]

Great shot! :)

I have lens envy :o

[Nighthound]

Thanks very much koalawalla.

NH

[c-bass]

is there a astrophotography forum where we can see more of this great stuff?

[medicdude]

wow, im not the first to say, but im sure im not the last. amazing

[BitterSweet]

Just wow. I need to find where you live and steal your stuff lol....j/k :D

[MikeI]

Stunning....

[Nighthound]

Thanks everyone. Glad you enjoyed.

NH

[BSBXTi]

I love astrophotography and this image is amazing! Excellent work! I have fooled around with it alittle and it can be very nerve racking espiecally in the cold :S

[smasraum]

is there a astrophotography forum where we can see more of this great stuff?

We don't have one here, but if you search for "astrophotography" you'll get quite a few hits.

Here is a short list of links that I posted in another thread here a few days ago.

I just did a search for "astrophotography" in the "Forum Talk" forum, to see if anyone else had ever asked about a specific forum being built. I found two threads both from this past late summer/fall.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=394205
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=371005

The answer to both was basically, "not enough demand" which I guess I understand. If you do a search for "star trails" and "astrophotography" and probably "moon", I suspect you'd find a lot of threads, but I don't know if it's enough threads for it's own forum. Of course, if there was a forum, there may be more threads for it.

It's a shame. I guess there are other forums out there on the net, but I like POTN.

I think this is the mother of all of this type of forums. Here there are 7 different astrophotography forums including, beginners, digital cameras, film cameras, CCD cameras, etc...
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/Cat/0/C/3

Here's one. Most of these guys are pretty hard core, but there are also plenty of novices including folks like me with a digital camera and 200-400mm lens on a tripod.
http://www.bautforum.com/astrophotography/

I haven't checked this one out yet, but here's another
http://www.astronomy.net/forums/astrophotography/

[rsbob]

WOW, Great shot Steve.

[20DNewbie]

That's a wicked http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/c/censored.gif awesome pic!

[pakomo]

Beautiful stuff.. :)

[Nighthound]

Thanks Bob, Christian and Patrick. I sure do appreciate the kind comments.

NH

[DDA]

http://www.comicguide.net/images/smilies/wow2.gifhttp://img486.imageshack.us/img486/6389/jawdrop7rg.gif

[Matatazela]

Stunning. What DDA said Above me ^^^

[ak_powder_monkey]

NICE!!!!!!

[Nighthound]

Thanks DDA, Matatazela, and ak_powder_monkey. Greatly appreciate it.

NH

[Sparky98]

This has got to be one of the best astrophotography shots I have ever seen posted. I don't have the equipment to do that kind of photography but mostly I don't have the patience. It is an amazing shot and I appreciate you sharing it with us.

[Nighthound]

Thanks Joe, It's my pleasure to share these images.

It does take patience and persistence, but it's very rewarding and awesome to capture such ancient light that has traveled so far.

NH

[alkady]

perfection cannot be improved upon

[mellowd]

Wow

[barryvj171]

Incredible image..... I was also looking into a similar setup as well... this has made me very enthusiastic again.... many thanks,
Barry.

[sin4jon]

Hi Steve, I've seen some other of your photos here and always wanted to see your rig. Thanks for posting that shot. Do you have any through the R200SS? I've always wondered how good is the OTA at imaging? I manage a store that sells Vixen. I've met Brian Deis and Mike Fowler at the headquarters in San CLemente,CA. (I had a chance to go when I went to the Hands On The Sun conference in Irvine,CA.) Did you know that Orion just introduced an autoguider for less than $300? I'm kind of tempted to get one for my Celestron AS-GT. I've got a 6" f/5 Newt and just received a Vixen ED80SF for Christmas. We finally had a clear night here and it's about -5F! I did get a chance to see the Moon and Mars, earlier, with a Tele-Vue 85 with the new Ethos EP. WOW!! Sorry, I'm rambling. You shot of the Nebula is as good as Adam Block's Rosette Nebula shot in Tele-Vue's ad. Thanks again, Great Shot and Great Work!

[Nighthound]

Thanks Angie, MellowD, Barry and sin4jon.

sin4jon, you're welcome and thanks or the compliments. I sent a PM with some info.

NH

[alkady]

Thanks Angie, MellowD, Barry and sin4jon.

sin4jon, you're welcome and thanks or the compliments. I sent a PM with some info.

NH NIGHTHOUND YOUR MORE THAN WELCOME IAM IN AWE x

[borg79]

speechless.

[rlrouse]

Simply spectacular!

[meetscriteria]

I am sure it is cliche', but It just seems the coolest to me that those photons literally traveled 6K ly just to fall on your sensor and yield that image. Really impressive, and exceptionally humbling.

Mike

[G35Driver]

Does anyone know of a decent equitorial mount under $300 that I can use with my DSLR? by decent I mean that can track stars acurately

[sin4jon]

Orion has the EQ-2. The clock drives are extra. What do you plan on shooting with? Telescope or lenses? You need to know what the weight is of the equipment. The more teeth in the gears the more accurate the mount. Steve has some really serious equipment. His Losmandy is more than all of my original equipment! I use a Celestron mount.

[G35Driver]

Orion has the EQ-2. The clock drives are extra. What do you plan on shooting with? Telescope or lenses? You need to know what the weight is of the equipment. The more teeth in the gears the more accurate the mount. Steve has some really serious equipment. His Losmandy is more than all of my original equipment! I use a Celestron mount.
I am looking at shooting some nebula or star clusters with the equipment I already have

[smasraum]

Everything that I've read seems to indicate that you can't really get a mount that's good enough for tracking a 300mm lens for low cost, but I suspect that the folks that assert that, are thinking about me trying to track for minutes or more. I suspect that if I could get a decent shot with the 300mm for 30secs or less, that it would make a huge difference compared to my 2 second shots.

I've considered some of the little Orion EQ mounts, but most of the AP folks say that they aren't worth bothering with if you're going to try AP.

[Nighthound]

Everything that I've read seems to indicate that you can't really get a mount that's good enough for tracking a 300mm lens for low cost, but I suspect that the folks that assert that, are thinking about me trying to track for minutes or more. I suspect that if I could get a decent shot with the 300mm for 30secs or less, that it would make a huge difference compared to my 2 second shots.

I've considered some of the little Orion EQ mounts, but most of the AP folks say that they aren't worth bothering with if you're going to try AP.

Steve, you could consider looking arond the classifieds at Cloudy Nights or at Astromart. It is possible to find some well cared for used mounts. Be cautious and do some research when buying this way however. I only mention this so that you may be able get a little more mount within your budget. I have never used the lower end mounts you're referring to so I can't shed any light on them. Certainly at low focal lengths any amount of tracking will help you to extend your exposures times. Much will depend on the accuracy of your alignments and your technique, and yes on the accuracy of your mount. As long as the mount has no serious gear problems or jumps in it's movement you should be ok 300mm FL, although lower would be better. Are those saying the lower end mounts are not worth bothering with saying so for use with a telescope or use with a lens at low FL? If your ambitions are to use a telescope as well then I would say a lower end mount would most likely be disappointing. A word of caution, 30 seconds may seem like an eternity compared to 2 seconds but it really isn't that long for resolving faint detail in many deep-sky objects. This is not meant to discourage you because certainly there are some objects that you will be able to do well with. If you catch the bug, as many do, you will be hungry for deeper shots pretty quickly. I just want you to have as much insight as possible for making your decision.

NH

[smasraum]

Steve,

Initially, I'd be shooting just with my camera and lens. I see this eventually turning into a hobby, but I won't be spending much money on it for about 1.5-2 years.

I've seen some advice that I thought was probably sound, but I'm going to ignore. First get in to just doing visual observation, then after you've been around a while and learned the basics start moving towards AP. I can see that similar to some other stuff that I'm interested in, if you try to go too cheap initially, you can end up frustrated and buying the good stuff down the road anyway.

My current tentative plan is to go very slow and cheap and learn and dream of doing the cool stuff with the good equipment like you, and then at some point down the road, get a good setup with good gear.

From what I understand, the cheaper gear is fine for visual or even wide angle photos (like 18-50mm), but the tolerances change a lot when you start taking pictures at longer FL.

Who knows what direction I'll end up going, certainly not me.

Thanks for the advice. I'd considered used gear. There's not much on ebay, but the other two sound like they're worth checking out.

[theflyingkiwi]

OH WOW :)

[slartibardfast]

That is one impressive setup and an inspriational shot

Andy

[Nighthound]

Steve,

Initially, I'd be shooting just with my camera and lens. I see this eventually turning into a hobby, but I won't be spending much money on it for about 1.5-2 years.

I've seen some advice that I thought was probably sound, but I'm going to ignore. First get in to just doing visual observation, then after you've been around a while and learned the basics start moving towards AP. I can see that similar to some other stuff that I'm interested in, if you try to go too cheap initially, you can end up frustrated and buying the good stuff down the road anyway.

My current tentative plan is to go very slow and cheap and learn and dream of doing the cool stuff with the good equipment like you, and then at some point down the road, get a good setup with good gear.

From what I understand, the cheaper gear is fine for visual or even wide angle photos (like 18-50mm), but the tolerances change a lot when you start taking pictures at longer FL.

Who knows what direction I'll end up going, certainly not me.

Thanks for the advice. I'd considered used gear. There's not much on ebay, but the other two sound like they're worth checking out.

Steve, you're wise to start modestly and go slow. You don't want to become frustrated to a point of throwing in the towel before you have a chance to get a feel for things.

The advice you were given is solid. Observing is a great way to learn the layout of the night sky and to ease into understanding the hobby including equipment, etc. Knowing the constellations and brighter stars will be particularly useful when you start aligning your mount for imaging. The constellations are your markers for object locations. And of course observing is just good fun. Sometimes it's fun to take a break from imaging and just look at the wonders, something I need to do more often provided I can get more time out(lousy weather this winter). And yes, long focal length imaging is difficult even with more capable equipment. Lower end gear makes it mega frustrating.

Good luck, let us know what you find.

NH

[Nighthound]

Thank you Mark and Andy, greatly appreciated.

NH

[Soliz387]

That's just ridiculously wicked cool. . .

[Nighthound]

Thanks Soliz387. Much appreciated.

NH

[Sam_M]

Ok, first off, I have to say what a killer shot that is! Second, I have a question, which I have not seen answered yet in my searches of astrophotography. My question is, are all of the photos of the same area, or of different ones, and then combined to form a larger image, or is it one area photographed a buch of times. The reason I ask is that I'm having a hard time understanding why multiple exposures of the same time incriment (in this case 5 minutes) are needed if the image is of the same area. Thank you if you answer this.

[Nighthound]

Ok, first off, I have to say what a killer shot that is! Second, I have a question, which I have not seen answered yet in my searches of astrophotography. My question is, are all of the photos of the same area, or of different ones, and then combined to form a larger image, or is it one area photographed a buch of times. The reason I ask is that I'm having a hard time understanding why multiple exposures of the same time incriment (in this case 5 minutes) are needed if the image is of the same area. Thank you if you answer this.

Thanks Sam. This particular image is a single frame image that is a result of combining sixty 5-minute exposures. I repeatedly shoot the exact same spot that contains the object I'm after. The reason for shooting shorter exposures as I do is three-fold. Firstly because in order for me to even attempt one single 5 hour exposure I would have to own a very expensive mount(approx. 12K) and be shooting with a dedicated and cooled astro CCD camera(5K-10K). Even when high-end equipped the next hurdle would be image noise level. As DSLRs(Canon 5D in my case) or Astro CCDs are collecting photons they are also heating up in the process. The thermal noise in a 5 hour exposure would not be easily reduced without degrading the precious details of the object you are shooting. Cooled CCDs have a big advantage for combatting noise over a DSLR. And lastly the final hurdle would be light pollution and/or "sky fog". Even under very dark skies 5 hours of exposure will be collecting a LOT of light, some very faint that is projected in the atmosphere from very far away. The "sky fog" limit on exposures can vary from night to night and also depends on the optics/camera you are using. "Sky fog" is a major limiting factor in exposure time. To simplify it begins to flood the image with unwanted light that begins to neutralize the faint light that you're attempting to gather thus making that light less apparent in the final image.

So with my set up and my sky conditions, I keep exposures around 4-6 minutes and only shoot at ISO 1600 during the winter months when the cold temps help keep the camera cool. By combining shorter exposures the process reduces the noise level and raise the signal(good stuff) at the same time. So the end result is less noise to have to remove in processing which helps preserve detail and clarity.

One last note. There are times when multiple frames are combined in a mosaic. This allows use a a fairly high focal length to be used in each frame or section used in the mosaic. By piecing the sections together large areas of sky can be portrayed in stunning detail and at large scale.

This image is a mosaic of two horizontal frames pieced together in Photoshop. Each section is 90 minutes of combined or "stacked" exposures at 407mm(f/4). Had these been single 90 minute exposures the noise and sky fog would have been terrible.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/Nighthd/Astrophotography/m8m20ngc6559nw.jpg

Sorry so long on the explanation, hope this helps.

NH

[Sam_M]

That helped sort of. Not for lack of explanation on your part though, that's some good information, I'm just slow sometimes. Let me try to get this straight. You combine however many exposures of the same area, as a way to increase the layers of a particular area/ object, thus increasing its brightness and detail, while keeping noise levels low. Its like applying coats of paint to bring out the true color and shine right? That's what I make of it. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.

[Nighthound]

In a sense, yes. There's no real objective to increase layers but yes it's simply a means of accumulating or combining exposure time while keeping noise in check.

NH

[Sam_M]

Ok, got it. Thank you very much for the explanation. Oh, and post more pictures please!

[smasraum]

Here's a long-winded explanation
http://www.cs.unm.edu/~kwiley/astroPhotography/imageStacking.html

[Brian Boru]

breathtaking, thank you for sharing

[Nighthound]

You're welcome Sam.

Steve, thanks for the info link.

Thank you Brian, you're welcome.

NH

[willy b]

OMFG!

*jaw hits table*

[staceygt]

That is so awesome!!!!!

[Nighthound]

Thank you Willy B and Stacey, greatly appreciated.

NH

[Jeremy92]

Excellent! :)

[Nighthound]

Thank you Jeremy.

NH

[HighLife]

omg, i must know how this is done...that is simply a amazing photo.

[Boogie99]

Just adding the sme thats one hell of a picture

[cindyinflorida]

that is really awesome! I would love to be able to do photography like that.

[xepherys]

I really MUST start getting into astrophotography. Beautiful!

[Nighthound]

Thank you all very much. It's a lot of fun and very challenging. I really need to move to dark skies so I can shoot from home again.

NH

[UnlnvlslblE]

I'm very impressed! Please, please keep these coming. Space is so fascinating & beautiful. To see how one can harness it like this is inspirational. Thanks for sharing!

[Kaya75]

wow - that is some seriously technical photography - truly an art form - beautiful, thanks for sharing :)

[bucket772]

holy ******* (darn swear filter) moly


seriously though, very impressive

[DVS_WiNdz]

That's beautiful. I wish I could see something like that here..

[PM01]

How, HOW can you possibly improve on that?!?!? :rolleyes:

For one thing, he could always do a high res mosaic. The TOA150 or even one of the Epsilon series telescopes would definitely provide that. Or if he wanted to cut down the time, he could always go for a "one shot" STL11000 or any of the other offerings that are full frame. Doesn't have to go with SBIG, he could go with Apogee and their 16 mp.

Now if he wanted to go all out nutty, a Phase One P45 back, TOA150 or even their 200mm scope would do incredible work. I've been VERY tempted to do this! The larger the scope, the more resolution, generally speaking.

That's a 5 hour exposure time if I figured it out correctly with the 5D. 5D is 12 bit a/d. The dedicated cooled cameras for astro usage are 16 bit. And much more efficient at quantum efficiency. He could, in theory, do the same shot with about 2 hours vs 5.

I'd start plugging in all the astro stuff that I have but the weather near Chicago SUCKS for this type of work. If it was in Arizona or Texas, I'd have all my Astro Physics and Tak gear at work. :) Plus the skies around Chi-town are lousy. Mag 3 now if you're lucky. :(

[Nighthound]

Thanks very much everyone, I really do appreciate the kind words.

PM01, sounds like some seriously impressive gear you have there. It's got to be tough not being able to use it much. I start grumbling after only a few weeks when the skies turn bad here.

NH

[verty]

wow i am so amazed by these sort of of images.. i wouldnt know where to start but im so amazed.. keep them coming

[Kaya75]

same old same old - compose shot, get the light down the lens enough to give the desired exposure for the composition, steady camera while the shutter is open, if the subject or yourself or moving pan the camera to keep the subject steady... it's all about the panning - but hey there is plenty of gold up there :)

i love astro photography it's the only form of photography i can truly enjoy, ignorant to technique / light / image etc - and apart for the pan thing that's all i want to know :P

[Nighthound]

Thank you Verty and Kaya. Greatly appreciated.

NH