Missy Higgins @ WIN Entertainment Centre Wollongong

[verty]

Some pics from her performance last Sunday night. I managed to sneak in my SLR and the 17-55 IS USM lens.. i ran to the front and snaped some pics.. i took alot more just posting up some...

let me know what you think :)

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/vertyverty/IMG_1844.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/vertyverty/IMG_1871.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/vertyverty/IMG_1885.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/vertyverty/IMG_1905.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/vertyverty/IMG_1920.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/vertyverty/IMG_1932.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/vertyverty/IMG_1946.jpg

[DwightMcCann]

We don't approve of "sneaking in"! It's one of those things that makes it harder and harder for the legitimate among us to do our work because the backlash is that tour managers invent more and more restrictions whether it helps anything or not. And strictly speaking it is illegal. Your pictures are lovely.

[verty]

We don't approve of "sneaking in"! It's one of those things that makes it harder and harder for the legitimate among us to do our work because the backlash is that tour managers invent more and more restrictions whether it helps anything or not. And strictly speaking it is illegal. Your pictures are lovely.


yeah i know what your saying... they are only for my personal use.. im not selling them.. i like her as an artist and would like some nice pics from the performance for me only... also i wanted to test the waters to see what i could get away with. it seems everyone else gets away with sneaking stuff in, im not saying its right but im not taking anyones lunch as im not making money off it..
glad you liked the pics tho :D

[DwightMcCann]

yeah i know what your saying... they are only for my personal use.. im not selling them.. i like her as an artist and would like some nice pics from the performance for me only... also i wanted to test the waters to see what i could get away with. it seems everyone else gets away with sneaking stuff in, im not saying its right but im not taking anyones lunch as im not making money off it..
glad you liked the pics tho :D

Well, it doesn't appear you read my note. You sneak a camera in against the rules. Security sees it even if they do nothing. They tell tour manager. Tour manager thinks, "Crap, I need to tighten up the rules so people know I am serious ... next time I'll limit everyone to two songs rather than three." Or one song. Or only from the lightboard. Always some new restriction. I've been shooting big time for three years and every month there are more rules. So then, I have to do my job much quicker. I don't give a hoot if you sell your images or want lovely personal images ... it is still at the expense of others and no amount of rationalization is going to change that. I guess you're under 25.

[verty]

Well, it doesn't appear you read my note. You sneak a camera in against the rules. Security sees it even if they do nothing. They tell tour manager. Tour manager thinks, "Crap, I need to tighten up the rules so people know I am serious ... next time I'll limit everyone to two songs rather than three." Or one song. Or only from the lightboard. Always some new restriction. I've been shooting big time for three years and every month there are more rules. So then, I have to do my job much quicker. I don't give a hoot if you sell your images or want lovely personal images ... it is still at the expense of others and no amount of rationalization is going to change that. I guess you're under 25.

okok... why are they going to restrict songs? you mean the amount of songs you can shoot? if you are shooting officially why does someone like me even effect your rules and restrictions? you have the green light to shoot so whats the problem? if they are going to tighten the restrictions they are going to do it for the general admission audience which is me, not you..

[DwightMcCann]

okok... why are they going to restrict songs? you mean the amount of songs you can shoot? if you are shooting officially why does someone like me even effect your rules and restrictions? you have the green light to shoot so whats the problem? if they are going to tighten the restrictions they are going to do it for the general admission audience which is me, not you..

The amount of songs I can shoot. Where I can shoot from. What I can do with the images I shoot. My green light gets shorter and shorter because people just can't obey the rules and the blowback hits everyone. I have no idea why you can't understand that the talent and tour manager aren't checking tickets of who has a camera. I have never understood the mentality of those who just don't want to accept that their actions screw it up for everybody else. Like I said, I bet you're under 25 ... part of the "entitlement generation". It's clear you are going to continue to do this until it somehow personally affects you no matter how much impact it has on others ... you'll have some rationalization. So just do those of us who get screwed by you a favor and don't mention that you did it by "sneaking a camera in". I am unsubscribing from this thread ... this is a losing discussion for me.

[skifurthur]

okok... why are they going to restrict songs? you mean the amount of songs you can shoot? if you are shooting officially why does someone like me even effect your rules and restrictions? you have the green light to shoot so whats the problem? if they are going to tighten the restrictions they are going to do it for the general admission audience which is me, not you..

The simple answer is because they can. There are a bunch of acts that see pictures on the internet, some which get used in ways that the artist/management does not want. To many of them, a photographer is a photographer and the DO decide to restrict access for the credentialed AND the audience.

Image is very important to many artists and the management of those artists will control that image to the Nth degree.

It may not be fair or even logical but it happens everyday.

[linarms]

I agree with Dwight. Do it by the book or don't do it.

It sucks that artists and labels and promoters and distributors are so protective, but it's a reality to work with, not around.

Your shots are fine but if you want to do live artist shots you should start with venues and artists who are happy for you to do it ... i.e. hit up the pub scene.

[skifurthur]

p.s. For what it's worth, you did a fine job with your captures. The 17-55 is a wonderful concert lens that I use very often. With that quality and a bit of networking you should be able to gain photographer credentials in the future.

[René Damkot]

#2 and 4 are lovely, but I agree with Dwight and linarms...

[blackshadow]

They are nice shots but why do you persist with the sneak it in mentality instead of doing it by the book the same as most of us here do? There are plenty of venues in Sydney that are camera friendly where you can build a portfolio and then start to use that portfolio to gain official access to photograph shows. You take some great photos but unfortunately your attitude has serious ramifications for those of us who do concert photography legitimately.

[verty]

They are nice shots but why do you persist with the sneak it in mentality instead of doing it by the book the same as most of us here do? There are plenty of venues in Sydney that are camera friendly where you can build a portfolio and then start to use that portfolio to gain official access to photograph shows. You take some great photos but unfortunately your attitude has serious ramifications for those of us who do concert photography legitimately.


hey ya blackshadow..

just for the record its the 1st time ive ever done it. ive tried over 10 times to get a camera in and happily shown security to see if i can let the camera in and they have made me cloak it which i have. Then when i get in i see 20 people with digital SLRs. I did it to see what i can get away with dont worry i wont be doing it again just wondered why so many people have cams if security is so uptight about it. I understand you and other photographers have a job to do and ive left it up to you guys for every concert ive been to.

[verty]

There are plenty of venues in Sydney that are camera friendly where you can build a portfolio and then start to use that portfolio to gain official access to photograph shows.

ok ive tried enmore, metro, vanguard, ent centre and acer arena that have all refused entry with my 350D + standard zoom lens.

[linarms]

ok ive tried enmore, metro, vanguard, ent centre and acer arena that have all refused entry with my 350D + standard zoom lens.

Which artists?

[skifurthur]

ok ive tried enmore, metro, vanguard, ent centre and acer arena that have all refused entry with my 350D + standard zoom lens.

Have you tried contacting the band/band management/record company or the promoter several weeks before the gig? Sent them links to your porfolio. And if refused, contact them again and thank them for their consideration in the matter?

Like most things in life, you have to work hard to grab the brass ring. Always present yourself as a professional and act accordingly and the doors will open. Maybe not all of them at once, but get through one and you have a base to work on the others.

[thelightofsound]

wow. don't mind dewight, he's real good about finger pointing and name calling. and in fact, i am not real sure why everyone else is in such strong agreement. first of all you don't just "sneak" an slr into a concert. you walked through the doors with it and security didn't care enough to find it. then (with the 17-55) you must have been pretty damn close to the stage as you shot away; a lot of them are closer to the 17 side and still very close. venue security saw you and band management saw you.

and who ever said it is people who sneak their camera in that ruins for those of us credentialed photogs? i think the rules getting stricter, has more to do with credentialed photographers abusing their access. for instance, if a credentialed photographer puts images on their personal website that are very large in size, someone might steal those and sell them on ebay. i would think that would be more of a catalyst for stricter rules than someone shooting from the crowd, especially considering the lens you were using.

now with all that said, i am not advocating sneaking your camera in. i think you should build a portfolio and make contacts in order to gain credentials.

and then to your pictures. i think your access limitations are your biggest hurdle. a couple would be amazing shots if the mic stand was not in the way. so the moral of the story is to get yourself into a position where you can get credentials.

[linarms]

Somehow you managed to bag Dwight and the rest of us while at the same time agreeing with us ... hmmm.

I'm sure unauthorised photographers don't always make life harder for those with credentials, but who's to know which artists/labels/managers etc. care enough to punish everybody?

[thelightofsound]

i didn't bag anyone and i didn't agree with you either. it was said don't sneak your camera in because it ruins it for the pro's. i disagree because of all the band members, band managers, tour managers, publicists, promoters, booking agents.........that i work with, not one of them has mentioned that a fan who sneaks their camera in is reason for such stipulations as the 3 song rule, or shooting from the FOH board. in fact every conversation i can think of about this subject is because of the pro abusing their privilege (as pointed out in my post about putting large enough images on your website that can be stolen and printed). most fans that sneak their camera in will not get great images. either because the security does their job at the front door, or they can not get in a good enough position to get the great picture. i think the OP had to of been in clear view of both security and the band (crew) while shooting at 17mm. i've seen that many times and if the security doesn't stop it then someone from the crew will..........that is if they really care. the tour manager is the one making most of the calls on the road. if they see someone taking pictures and that bothers them enough suggest policy change, then wouldn't they stop it? they have a radio and there are plenty of people that work for them that have their eyes glued to the stage during the performance.
my point was that one should not sneak their camera in and work to gain credentials because it gives better access, not because i'm scared my next photo pass will come with a 30 second time limit. the way i understand it is that the limitations put on credentialed photographers and fans that sneak their camera in, have nothing to do with each other.

[verty]

the way i understand it is that the limitations put on credentialed photographers and fans that sneak their camera in, have nothing to do with each other.

that was my point as well.. i find it hard to believe fans sneaking in cameras are the reaosn why pros get restrictions. Im sure there is abuse in the professional arena like any other profession. It all comes down to the blame game... look i know what i did was not right however like i said it was the 1st time and i did it cause im a fan and wanted some nice pics.. im sure im not the only deviant who has done something wrong, we all break the rules time to time. i respect professional photographers because if i didnt i woulda done this a hundred times over

[linarms]

Fair enough. I misunderstood you, Michael. Sorry about that.

I haven't personally experienced extra restrictions being imposed as a result of sneaky amateurs, but I know from plenty of other interactions that people often get irrational when they get upset ... i.e. camera smuggling -> upset venue management -> irrational fury -> extra restrictions for pro shooters. It wouldn't make sense, but it could easily happen (and presumably has). Considering the fact that music photography is littered with potential legal issues (stupid as they may be) and the related fact that live music photographers are more often tolerated than appreciated, and it can be a bit like walking on egg-shells.

Anyway, it seems that no harm was done in this instance, which is great. Again, the photos are nice, especially given the circumstances. You could get into this seriously if you wanted to, verty.

[kriddy]

Gee, sounds like nobody wants to compliment you on your great photography. I think they're great, regardless of whether you should have taken them or not. Obviously you're not printing off dodgy t-shirts or selling them of frickin ebay so maybe we can save the 3rd degree for those that deserve it! Awesome job mate :-)