Lighting...baby steps. What's the most important?

[toddb]

I think I need some help (ok, I know I do, LOL)...I've been following allot of the lighting threads and the one thing I've gotten out of them is that you can do allot with very little. I really don't have any kind of budget for lighting...at all. However, I've got some important family portraits I'd like to shoot and I can't depend on good natural lighting because of my poor timing and that fact I live in a city that is cloudy (dark cloudy) for 270 days out of the year.

So I'd like to start by giving you what I have and ask if there was one or two things I can add to really make my portrait shots stand out, what would it be (for example, one big soft box).

EOS 10D
Speedlite 550EX with OmniBounce (I shoot bounced attached to camera)
EF 28-135IS
EF 50mm F1.8

I've tried the halogen work lights and in my small apartment it just gets way too hot. Especially when trying to work with my 2 year old. I'm open to using a small 250watt one for maybe a back light or hair light??

My guess is to get one good light with a softbox and a background. Any comments would be great. My timing is bad because I don't really have the money saved up yet to make any big purchases, yet my wife and I are about to have our second child in a couple months and I'd love to get better portraits of my 2 year old. (also some good B&W Pregnancy Shots)

[evilenglishman]

here is a cheap solution;
you can buy a small item that is a hotshoe on one side and fits to a tripod or lighting stand on the other.
Fix your flash to that and get an umbrella to bounce the light through.
like this:
http://www.jessops.com/search/viewproduct.cfm?PRODUCT=PORS1BTU&BRAND=POR&CONTINU E=false&FEATS=&FIRSTPRICE=0&KEYWORD=&LEVEL=&MODELN UMBER=&NEWQUERY=True&NODE=314&ORD=ASC&ORDERBY=&QUA NTITY=40&RECENT=0&REFINE=&SEARCH_FOR=&SEARCHNODE=0 &SEARCHURL=dointellisearch.cfm&SECONDPRICE=999999& SHOWCASEID=&STARTROW=1&SUBS=&WORD_SEARCH=N&

I believe a comapny called Hama make a full unit which comes together with an umbrella.

[abel]

ahh very cool... i like that attachment!!

a very inexpensive alternative for lighting newbies like myself...

[scottbergerphoto]

here is a cheap solution;
you can buy a small item that is a hotshoe on one side and fits to a tripod or lighting stand on the other.
Fix your flash to that and get an umbrella to bounce the light through.
like this:
http://www.jessops.com/search/viewproduct.cfm?PRODUCT=PORS1BTU&BRAND=POR&CONTINU E=false&FEATS=&FIRSTPRICE=0&KEYWORD=&LEVEL=&MODELN UMBER=&NEWQUERY=True&NODE=314&ORD=ASC&ORDERBY=&QUA NTITY=40&RECENT=0&REFINE=&SEARCH_FOR=&SEARCHNODE=0 &SEARCHURL=dointellisearch.cfm&SECONDPRICE=999999& SHOWCASEID=&STARTROW=1&SUBS=&WORD_SEARCH=N&

I believe a comapny called Hama make a full unit which comes together with an umbrella.

That is an excellent suggestion. I use a similiar bracket for my portable lighting kit. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=188807&is=REG
I also use a lightstand, a large photoflex umbrella, two 550EX's (one in the stand and one on the camera for fill and master control) and two Quantum Turbo Batteries. If I want to get real crazy, I add a second light stand, umbrella, flash bracket, and 420EX. It makes for a very portable lighting set up.
Regards,
Scott

[evilenglishman]

I also use a lightstand, a large photoflex umbrella, two 550EX's (one in the stand and one on the camera for fill and master control) and two Quantum Turbo Batteries. If I want to get real crazy, I add a second light stand, umbrella, flash bracket, and 420EX. It makes for a very portable lighting set up.
Regards,
Scott

Scott,
I went the even cheaper route and bought a couple of $15 cobra700AF flashguns :oops:
I just need a wien peanut to set of the second one :D

[toddb]

Is there a cheeper solution to the Speedlite Transmitter ST-E2 after putting my 550EX on a stand?

[evilenglishman]

yes a long sync cable :wink:

[jgbeam]

I've never used them, but there are inexpensive slave flash units that are triggered by the main flash (or any other flash, for that matter). The cheapest ones screw into a regular household lamp socket for power and some are self powered. [/url]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=SPMS&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku =95436[url]

You can also use mirrors (hard light) and white foam core board (softer light) for some fill. Experiment a little. You will be able to get some good results for less than $50.

Jim

[toddb]

I've been looking through the BHPhotoVideo site particularly at the flash accessories. The cables seem pretty expensive (the cannon ones anyway). I see a off camera shoe cord that looks like I can mount to the 550...but it's not long enough at only 2 feet. There is connecting cord that I can get that is longer...but then it looks like I have to get some off-Camera Shoe adapters one for the camera, one for the flash 2x$28 + $42(cord).....I'll have to think about this. It's half as much as the ST-E2, but when I'm ready to add a second flash I'll have to buy more cables....

Since I already have the 550EX, would it be smarter to get a 420EX and use the 550EX on the camera and just power it way down compared to the 420EX that would be on the stand behind the umbrella? The 420 is cheaper then the ST-E2 is why I ask.

[scottbergerphoto]

Any lighting solution that doesn't involve the Off The Shoe Cord II,STE2 or the 550EX as Master will cease to function as ETTL and you will need to use the flashes in Manual Mode and adjust their output with a Flash Meter.
Simple optical slaves will not work in ETTL as they are fired by the pre flash. There are Digital Optical Slaves that ignore the preflash, but you will still have to set the flash manually.

The 420EX is a great flash, but it cannot function as a master unit. You can put the 550 on the hot shoe and use the 420 as your main light and set a 3:1 ratio on the 550. I would buy a 420 or another 550(if you already have a 550) or 550 rather than a STE2, as it only functions as a transmitter.
Regards,
Scott

[Cordell]

My solution to the on camera and umbrella hook-up mentioned above is two Sigma Super 500 DG flash guns. The on camera one set to manual while the umbrella attached one is set as regular slave. In other words I don't use ETTL for this kind of setup.

If I were you I would look into the Sigma flash to work as a on camera master and the 550EX as the in umbrella flash. This gives you two flash guns that are very good and both work in manual mode.

BTW the Sigma cost around the same as the Canon 420EX and you have the benefit of a flash that is nearly equal to the Canon 550EX.

To save even more money consider a cheaper flash setup on the umbrella with a flash trigger. Set the 550EX in the camera hotshoe set to manual. Of course you have to meter both lights seperate to get your ratios.

[evilenglishman]

Todd
If the 550EX has a pc connection (not sure as i dont have one), then you can connect it via the 10D's pc socket with one of these for $5:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=82554&is=REG

If you get a second flash later on you can buy a "peanut" - this will make your second flash a 'slave' which will be fired by the main flash:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=263022&is=REG

[scottbergerphoto]

Of course you have to meter both lights seperate to get your ratios.
If you don't plan on doing alot of studio lighting, put the money you would spend on a flash meter towards getting another 550EX. INMHO :wink:
The portablity and ease of 2 550's is a big plus. Stick one on your camera and the second on a bookshelf or the on floor and you have an instant studio.
Regards,
Scott

[scottbergerphoto]

Todd
If the 550EX has a pc connection (not sure as i dont have one), then you can connect it via the 10D's pc socket with one of these for $5:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=82554&is=REG

If you get a second flash later on you can buy a "peanut" - this will make your second flash a 'slave' which will be fired by the main flash:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=263022&is=REG
You can't use a peanut slave on a 550. It won't recycle. You'll have to manually turn the flash off/on after each shot.
Regards,
Scott

[robertwgross]

Todd
If the 550EX has a pc connection (not sure as i dont have one), ...


It does not.

---Bob Gross---

[toddb]

Thanks for all your suggestions. I'm leaning towards Scott's suggestion on just getting a second 550 or 420. There are several reasons why.

1) Portability
2) I like the idea of having a backup flash unit
3) Wireless
4) Good scalability later on if I want to add a third unit.
5) Retain ETTL
6) Later I plan to buy a second film based camera so I can keep the second flash on it.

I think the extra cost for the second flash seem to be really worth it. So now that I have a couple cool flash gun brackets to choose from, I just need to select an umbrella and stand and I should be good to go. Thanks allot guys.

What size unbrella would you suggest? My daughter is 36 inches tall.

[evilenglishman]

the largest you can afford.



You can't use a peanut slave on a 550. It won't recycle. You'll have to manually turn the flash off/on after each shot.

really? Even in manual?


It does not.

what external connections does it have?

[scottbergerphoto]

the largest you can afford.



You can't use a peanut slave on a 550. It won't recycle. You'll have to manually turn the flash off/on after each shot.

really? Even in manual?


It does not.

what external connections does it have?

1. Really! The Peanut Slave will not work with a 550EX. If you do a Google Search, you'll find the posts.

2. The 550EX has no external ports except a high voltage port for an external battey pack. I had some 550EX hot shoe to Pocket Wizard mini plug cords made up at www.paramountcords.com. That's really the only way to go if you want to mix add ons to 550's.
Regards,
Scott

[toddb]

Can you give me a quick run down on umbrella usage. I've seen several materials and also reflective vs passthrough types. In a one umbrella setup, what would produce the best result...or is it just a matter of taste?

This looks like a big one plus the backing comes out to use both ways...I think.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=42512&is=REG

[scottbergerphoto]

I use large Photoflex, white, fabric umbrellas. You can shoot into or through them. I think that's a good start.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=42508&is=REG
Scott

[evilenglishman]

1. Really! The Peanut Slave will not work with a 550EX. If you do a Google Search, you'll find the posts.

2. The 550EX has no external ports except a high voltage port for an external battey pack. I had some 550EX hot shoe to Pocket Wizard mini plug cords made up at www.paramountcords.com. That's really the only way to go if you want to mix add ons to 550's.


:shock: wow, im shocked.
I personally never use an on-camera flash and for the price of a 550EX I could easily set up 3 ebay cheapos with umbrellas and stands

[evilenglishman]

As scott says white for shoot-through or reflected. I also have a silver/gold reversible which I use a lot outdoors.

[toddb]

The 550EX is alone more then I wanted to spend...but, having one already and using it makes me think it's not such a bad buy. On the camera it as AF assist beam which has been very helpful with my indoor shots. So If I get that second camera down the road this would be a cool option. I will have to mole over it for a while. Thanks again for all your help guys. I've got a much better idea of how to proceed now.

[robertwgross]

There are some fundamental questions that you have to answer before the whole picture will take shape. In each question, there are multiple possible correct answers. In some cases, your answer to one will contradict the answer to another, and I have mixed them illogically to avoid leading you to one single answer.

(1) Are you going to try to shoot ETTL, or manual?

(2) Are you going to connect flash sync only, or complete ETTL, between the camera and the flash?

(3) Are you setting up more for portability, or more like a studio setting?

(4) Are you going to connect between the camera and flash with RF, with Canon wireless IR, with optical slaving, with a simple cable, or with a complete cable?

Each person responding in this thread kind of has his or her own magical formula, so they have a different set of answers. I mean, it is nice to equip yourself for anything, but at the end of the day, it boils down to some decisions.

---Bob Gross---

[toddb]

ETTL sounds nice and might be easier for someone of my experience. I like the fact that I can set the light ratio and shoot with these speedlites (right?). Portability is also sort of a plus for me because I will shoot inside my own apartment which doesn't have allot of space, so being able to compact this stuff down is going to be a mojor plus.

Right now my lighting isn't bad (bounced off a ceiling with a defuser)...but it doesn't have that puch to it. I can sort of fake it in PS in post processing...but after viewing some of the simple lighting portrait shots here I think I'd like to try it myself. This setup described also seems to be on of the more simplistic setups...just attach flash to camera, set to master, set ratio 3:1 and set slave on stand with umbrella.....I might actually be able to handle this.

[DocFrankenstein]

I have ZERO knowledge of studio lighting

How about getting an industrial 30 dollar fan for ventilation?

Just put it into the window and you're good. :wink:

[robertwgross]

The reason I asked those questions is because what you buy to shoot with, and the way you learn to shoot flash photos will be swayed by your decision. You can jump up out of one technique and jump over into a different technique, but then the cables and gadgets and methods might have to change somewhat.

The bottom line is that portable flash photography tends to take you one direction, and studio flash photography tends to take you in another. The expensive stuff is mostly the same, but it's kind of a different animal.

Although I use a standard Canon solution for wedding photography, I experimented with continuous lighting for a small studio setup. Oddly enough, that only gets used in the wintertime. ( ! )

---Bob Gross---

[toddb]

Doc, the fans are already in the windows before I turn the lights on, LOL. This area doesn't believe in AC I guess, LOL. Anyway, even with AC they are to hot for small children who can get pretty cranky fast.

Bob, I hope I'm at least stepping in a better direction there were I'm at, which isn't real bad, but would like to see some more dynamics to my photo.

I almost want to wait on getting another 550EX to see if the 580EX will bring down the price. I see the 580EX in some online stores is as cheep as $425...which is $125 more then the 550EX at B&H. I could save another $120 if I go the 420EX route...I wonder if I could get the same effect behind the umbrella with it?

[Cordell]

Keep in mind what Bob says about the direction you are going in when considering your purchase. He makes very good points.

It reads to me that you are somewhat counting on the ETTL for portraits. I could be wrong, but that is the way I am interpreting your message. All I can say is good luck. Not that it can't be done, but I find it difficult to control as much as setting ratios myself. All though a meter is a great benefit I can set ratios with or without a flash meter because of the manual controls on the flash. Not to mention for the money of another 550EX you can get yourself an Alien Bee strobe setup. You still have the other 550EX for other uses.

As I mentioned above Sigma has the 500 Super DG flash that does everything the Canon 550EX can do for less. It does not have the port for the external battery though. Some will argue that the build quality is not there and I don't disagree with them. However, I'm extra careful not to slam my equipment on the ground anyway.

Cordell

[toddb]

I think I need to go make sure I really know what ETTL is. At my amateur status, I don't think I would be able to differentiate these two directions I should be aware of....could and should I?? My direction as I see it is to achieve a more dynamic lighting situation where I can make the subject have more perceived depth by increasing a light source from a 45 degree angle (or something) and making sure that the light is soft enough and the fill is sufficient to have even lighting. Baby steps for me. I don't expect my photos to look like a professional of 20 years....yet. :-)

I will look into Super DG. Normally I'm brand loyal, but I do have to start thinking about saving for college for my daughter so she doesn't have to be on a 30 year payment plan like me. :-P

Let me give you some of my sample shots of late. I'm starting to use PS to fake a lighting setup....every single one of these shots are candid shots fixed up.

http://www.toddburke.net/gallery/web/CRW_8464_Jen_Jas_bw_lighting.jpg

http://www.toddburke.net/gallery/web/CRW_1799_sid%20light%20painting.jpg

http://www.toddburke.net/gallery/web/Reese_01_web.jpg

http://www.toddburke.net/gallery/web/CRW_0465.jpg

http://www.toddburke.net/gallery/web/Izabelle_highlight.jpg

http://www.toddburke.net/post/CRW_1923_izzy_eyes.jpg (PS shadows)

http://www.toddburke.net/images/cat_yawn.jpg

As you can see, I'm missing allot for a real portrait type shot. The better ones are when I have some available window light. The background is very distracting. The direction I want to take is to add some control to the environment. One will probably try to teach my two year old to stay still, lol. The next is to have a consistent background....but the purpose of my thread is to help me with a "baby step" lighting setup.

It think I understand the pros of using speedlites, but what are the cons?? Scott, can you post one sample of a speedlite photo that has different lighting ratios between the flashes? I feel like your are trying to tell me something...but I don't know what that is. :-)

[robertwgross]

At my armature status,


What the heck is armature status?

An armature is a part of an electric motor.

---Bob Gross---

[toddb]

amateur.

[robertwgross]

My guess had been "arm chair status", but that didn't make sense either.

---Bob Gross---

[CyberDyneSystems]

My Armature status?

It needs to be rewound....

[scottbergerphoto]

Unless you have room for a studio, monolights and stands will probably sit in a case most of the time. Speedlights are compact and easy to leave on a shelf and use for 10 minutes and then put them away. I like the ability to set ratios or set FEC on each flash instead and let the camera do the rest or go fully manual if I want. The Canon ETTL system allows you the flexibility to do that. I suggest you read Vincent Laforet's article
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/450
Regards,
Scott

[toddb]

The speedlites are getting more interesting in terms of the creative possibilities that portability could bring. One thing I read here (http://www.shortcourses.com/10D/flash.htm) is that is appears that only the 550EX has the modeling light capability for about a second so you can kind of check your ratios. High speed sync, second curtain, exposure lock, and flash exposure bracketing all are very appealing as well. The biggest deciding factor is probably going to be my home environment and the lack of space to do bigger studio type setups. And the idea that this will allow me to be portable is a big plus. The idea of being able to shoot better outdoor shots with a second speedlite is also enticing.