Metz 45 CL-4 question.

[David John]

I just purchased a pre-owned Metz Mecablitz 45 CL-4, and I was wondering if it could be used to trigger my Canon 430EX in slave mode. I used to use my 580EX as a master, but some P.O.S. lowlife scumbag walked off with it at the last function I photographed (along with a few other choice items). While I was awaiting my insurance reimbursement check, I came across this mint-condition Metz for $100 and grabbed it. However, I know NOTHING about Metz flashguns.

The owners manual is very basic and does not mention "master / slave" modes...only that a "Mecalux 11" slave triggering unit can be purchased as an available accessory. I looked it up on B&H's website, Here is their description... The Metz Mecalux 11 optically triggers an auxiliary flash from a main unit, without a directly wired connection. It can be used with a hot shoe connector or a standard PC cord; on the side of the unit there is a pc female socket, and on top there is a standard hot shoe connection.

Unlike many competing products, the Mecalux 11 will simultaneously trigger flashes connected via its pc socket and its hot shoe - usually if one is enacted the other is canceled out. The hot shoe rotates 360°, and the bottom of the Mecalux 11 features a "cold" flash shoe as well as both 1/4"-20 and 3/8"-16 threaded female sockets.

OK, um...WHAT?? Are they saying that the Mecalux 11 makes an additional flash a slave, or turns the Metz flashgun into a slave? And would I still need a flash (like the 580EX) to trigger it?

Can anyone here clarify this for my dumb ass?

[FlashZebra]

You could attach a simple and inexpensive optical slave to the Metz and have the 430EX trigger it (the 430EX would need to be in manual mode).

The Mecalux 11 is a nice optical slave but it is very expensive ($80.00 or so). There are many other capable optical slaves that cost less than $20.00 that will work just fine.

Enjoy! Lon

[David John]

The 430EX can act as a master? I wasn't aware of that. So, if I want to use the Metz as the master, do I need to purchase the Mecalux accessory to trigger the 430EX...or do I just set the 430EX to "slave" mode and it will automatically sync with the Metz??Sorry...I'm still confused.http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/doh.gif

[mslifkin]

The 430EX can act as a master? I wasn't aware of that. So, if I want to use the Metz as the master, do I need to purchase the Mecalux accessory to trigger the 430EX...or do I just set the 430EX to "slave" mode and it will automatically sync with the Metz??Sorry...I'm still confused.http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/doh.gif

No, the 430EX can only work as a slave. What FlashZebra was saying is that the flash from the 430EX can trigger an optical slave connected to the 45CL-4 flash. The 430EX would have to be in manual mode because ETTL mode sends pre-flashes out, and that would trigger the 45CL-4 before the shutter opens to take the picture. I don't know what kind of shooting you're doing, but if it's wedding photography you're not going to want to use an optical slave because then everyone with a pocket camera will be setting your lights off. Radio slaves work much better, but they're more money, too. I hope this helps.

Regards,
Marc

[FlashZebra]

The 430EX can act as a master? I wasn't aware of that. So, if I want to use the Metz as the master, do I need to purchase the Mecalux accessory to trigger the 430EX...or do I just set the 430EX to "slave" mode and it will automatically sync with the Metz??Sorry...I'm still confused.http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/doh.gif
Canon does not have the word "master" for exclusive use.

Forget the proprietary Canon Master/Slave lingo and use. I cannot reconcile that the term master and slave have a general meaning in addition to the very specific meaning Canon has decide to overlay.

Get an optical slave for the Metz flash unit, it does not have to be the expensive Metz unit, but if you must have that one, get that one.

Turn the 430EX to manual mode.

The flash burst from the 430EX (or any other flash actually) will trigger the optical slave attached to the Metz flash unit.

This is easy if you would just read this message and forget trying to reconcile the radically different use of the terms Master and Slave in the Canon manual.

Enjoy! Lon

[David John]

I was only using the two flash set-up for simple portrait stuff. I haven't had the balls to do a wedding yet (although I've been asked on occasion). If I do decide to do a wedding, would the Metz be a good choice...or should I purchase another 580EX II?

mslifkin,
thank you for clarifying what zebra was trying to explain, but I don't want to use my Metz as the slave...again, I DONT WANT TO USE THE METZ AS THE SLAVE.

So with that said, do I need to purchase ANYTHING to (optically) slave the 430EX to the Metz?? I thought the trigger was an infrared beam...but it sounds like ANY flash will trigger the 430 in slave mode...or is that just aftermarket optical triggers.


As you can see...I'm still confused.http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/willy_nilly.gif

[FlashZebra]

Simple optical slaves do not work well with the 430EX.

So, what works in one direction, does not work in the other.

You will not be able to get the Metz flash to integrate using the Canon infrared Master/Slave system.

The optical slave has nothing to do with the proprietary Canon infrared Master/Slave system.

Enjoy! Lon

[mslifkin]

I was only using the two flash set-up for simple portrait stuff. I haven't had the balls to do a wedding yet (although I've been asked on occasion). If I do decide to do a wedding, would the Metz be a good choice...or should I purchase another 580EX II?

mslifkin,
thank you for clarifying what zebra was trying to explain, but I don't want to use my Metz as the slave...again, I DONT WANT TO USE THE METZ AS THE SLAVE.

So with that said, do I need to purchase ANYTHING to (optically) slave the 430EX to the Metz?? I thought the trigger was an infrared beam...but it sounds like ANY flash will trigger the 430 in slave mode...or is that just aftermarket optical triggers.


As you can see...I'm still confused.http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/willy_nilly.gif

The Metz is a great choice for wedding work. I use a Metz 76 MZ-5 as my on camera flash, and typically set up two 45's at the reception as room lights, so that my backgrounds don't go black.

Now that I know what you're trying to do, I can better assist you. Since you're not using the Metz as a slave, I'm assuming it's on the camera, connected with either a sync cord or an SCA 3102 adapter and SCA3000 cable. The Metz will operate in either Automatic mode, or Manual mode. It WILL NOT operate in ETTL mode. To use this flash you set your camera on Manual, and set the flash on either Auto or Manual.

To have the 430EX fire when the Metz fires, all you have to do is get a hotshoe adapter with an optical slave built in. The adapter attaches to the top of your lightstand (or better, an umbrella bracket), the 430EX slips into the hotshoe, and off you go. Again, the 430EX should be on manual.

As an example, let's say you set up your lights such that the 430EX on 1/2 power is giving you f/11 at ISO 100 according to your lightmeter (if you have one). If you work with manual strobes you really need a lightmeter. If you don't have one guess at an exposure, take a shot and look at the histogram on your camera. If it's too far to the right, lower the power of the flash to 1/4 power. If it's too far to the left, either raise the power of the flash to full or open up the lens to f/8.0. In any event, now the main light is set up. For the Metz on the camera, you can either use manual or automatic. If you use automatic, and the main light is giving you f/11, set the Metz to f5.6 (two stops under the main light). That usually works best for portraits. If you want to use the Metz on manual, you'd have to turn off the 430EX and just meter the Metz, and I don't know that you'd be able to get the Metz down low enough power-wise (it only goes down to 1/4 power) so Automatic is probably your best bet.

Again, this uses none of the automation that's in your camera and 430EX flash. You can set your shutter speed at pretty much anything from 1/30th of a second to xSync (typically 1/200 to 1/250 of a second depending on the camera). The slower the shutter speed, the more ambient light you'll pick up. What really determines the exposure is the lens opening (F-stop). Let me know if you have any more questions.

Regards,
Marc

[FlashZebra]

To have the 430EX fire when the Metz fires, all you have to do is get a hotshoe adapter with an optical slave built in.
You have a hotshoe based optical slave (or any optical slave for that matter) that will fire a Canon EX 430EX more than once? If so, please let us know specifically the make and model of that nifty little device.

Or, are you just projecting what should happen if you place a 430EX on a garden variety hotshoe based optical slave.

The Metz optical slave is reported to work with Canon EX flash units, but almost no other optical slave will.

Enjoy! Lon

[mslifkin]

You have a hotshoe based optical slave (or any optical slave for that matter) that will fire a Canon EX 430EX more than once? If so, please let us know specifically the make and model of that nifty little device.

Or, are you just projecting what should happen if you place a 430EX on a garden variety hotshoe based optical slave.

The Metz optical slave is reported to work with Canon EX flash units, but almost other optical slaves will not.

Enjoy! Lon

I was projecting ... I had no idea that the Canon flashes "lock up" after one shot when triggered with an optical slave. Thanks for the clarification.

That being said, I think the simplest way around this is to put the 430EX on the camera (again, in manual mode) and fire the Metz with an optical slave.

Marc

[Wilt]

thank you for clarifying what zebra was trying to explain, but I don't want to use my Metz as the slave...again, I DONT WANT TO USE THE METZ AS THE SLAVE.

David John, you just might want to reconsider that position, for this reason...

Metz 45 is far far more powerful than the Canon 430. So it serves as a Main light far better than it would serve as a Fill. You ordinarily want your Main to be off-camera, and put the Fill at/on-camera! (Otherwise you have a strong light being Fill, and the weak Main cannot put out enough light, and you end up with FLAT light cast from the on-camera flash!