Wahoo i got a 2nd shooter interview :D What do i need to negotiate?

[Tobiah]

I decided to give this wedding thing a go so I sent out a few emails last night to local photogs and the one who I liked prob the most out of the 8 or so i contacted got back to me this morning and was impressed with my images.

He said to go over to his place run through things. He'd give me some dates , i'd get paid for them start with 2 weddings and if he likes my work then go from there....

He suggested I would get some training but wants to see my creativity etc. Told me not to take anything... So dont need to show more images...

He'll review my creativity based on the weddings it seems but how do you be creative as a second shooter? Just creative candids etc?

Anyway i'm happy and nervous but excited with this chance. I thought this was going to be hard but its come easy.

I think I need to improve my exposures (i usually underexpose) and will also not rely on PP (although i think PP really got me my interview and will make my shots stand out from other photogs in the area who just upload images as shot...)

I sent these photos in...

Here are a few samples...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2224/2103211169_b39c347326.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2340/2037535375_30c295dae3.jpg
(see the heart shape? http://ukweddingforum.co.uk/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2164/1973336910_223f8a2391.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2257/2004128202_1b76f0a1f1.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2402/2106378986_6e56008fe3.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2333/2103132509_3d4edf7ab5.jpg

[Dandaman_24]

From what i can see, you shouldnt be nervous, by the looks of your photos you know what your doing. Learn all you can from the other photogs. Dont put your life in his hands though, dont let them take you for a ride. (I know from experience)

[mrmkt]

Great news. But remember don't change your style that is what makes us all different. Carry on being creative as a 2nd shooter but also learn from observing the prime shooter such as the way he interacts with the wedding party and how he guides and composes every body to ensure he completes his task. As 2nd shooter you are in a wonderful situation of being under little pressure to nail the shots. If your shots don't turn out so what! your not the prime. Just enjoy the experience and concentrate on the wonderful natural candid shots and the formals but from a different angle to the prime. Also don't forget to watch you don't get in the primes view. Have a ball

Mark

[Tobiah]

for the formals do i try get the eyes looking at my camera in between shots from the main?

[mrmkt]

for the formals do i try get the eyes looking at my camera in between shots from the main?

From my experience the prime does not like you to give instructions because the subjects get confused who to look at. After the prime has finished then no problem.

Mark

[GPR1]

In your title you ask what you need to negotiate. Beside the obvious of pay rate, negotiate the right to use your images for your self-promotion. Generally in these situations you've been paid, so the main photog owns the image. You just want the right to show it on your site, or show prints, in order to promote yourself. You're not trying to sell prints.

Also, who's going to do any post-processing of your images?

Greg

[notapro]

there've been several threads in the old wedding forum about second shooting. I *think* since they are pretty old, they're probably still in this forum somewhere. If not, then i guess probably moved to the busiess forum. There was some great information in them and some perspectives from photographers who use second shooters that might be helpful if you feel like searching for them.

Congratulations and good luck with the interview!

[wizard13]

Nice chance you have there. It looks like you are already on your way with the shots you uploaded. Just relax, learn and enjoy the ride. I will be starting as a 2nd shoot also with the upcoming wedding season (locally starts June). I will then be enjoying the same situation (and also a little nervous).
Have fun!!!

[amironsi]

they all seem too dark
and the first one you did mput too much contrast on it that it lost some details...

[Time Thief]

Dress to impress. Not saying you wouldn't just reminding you.

[amironsi]

talk seriuos but don't make it a war..
drop somethign funny... and show you can be good with people
... u have to be good with people in this work

[fmyers711]

I will echo and expand on GPR1's comments... Make sure that you negotiate access to the images you shoot and get a release to use them for your own marketing purposes. as well as how you will get access to the images. Often a prime will give the second shooter memory cards and just take get them back after the shoot, which means you are on their timetable to give you the images, unless you have explicitly determined how you will get access.

Again echoing earlier comments... Make sure it is clear who is doing the PP on all of your images, because that would clearly affect what you should charge as a second shooter.

The other area touched on before is make sure it is clear what the prime's expectations are for you during posed photo times. Do they expect you to help with the posing or not, shoot candids during the formals or wrangle guests shooting during the formals.

Congratulations and good luck,,,

[Tobiah]

thanks for the help. i'd certainly like to do my own pp after but then my images may look different to the rest of the main togs...

[C.Steele]

Just remember that you are there to support him. He is the pro. I have been a second for a while now and this is something I keep in my head constantly while I'm there. It has served me well.

Whenever you are both shooting the same group you will inevitably get some people looking at his camera and some at yours. When this happens with us I am always the first one to speak up and direct them to him. I think it's something he really appreciates.

As far as the PP goes, I'm guessing he won't let you do your own. Even if he did, I wouldn't. IMO the images need to look cohesive and if you have 2 guys PP the same shots they are guaranteed to look very different. What you CAN do is ask to be present when he edits. I do this with my guy when I have the time and I enjoy it. That way the images all look like they are from the same studio, but you still have a hand in it.

Good luck on your new adventure! Your first few will be nerve wracking, but it does get a little better. It's a real eye opener the first few times when you see how much goes into wedding photography and how fast things move! It's crazy, but very exciting as well.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to drop me a line.:cool:

Take care
Chris

[Philco]

I imagine when you go to shoot for this person, they will give you some direction, or at least lay out a few expectations. It's always good to ask "where do you want me when X happens?" so you can anticipate during things like the processional, etc. They may say, 'hey, just shoot whatever you want' which is code for: "I'm not counting on having to use a single frame of yours, so I'm curious to see what you can do on your own." You won't have to make the primary shooting type decisions, so that will free up your attention for shooting - just look for good light and use it when you can. You may be asked to go shoot the guys getting ready while he shoots the girls, or you may be left behind to do candids during coctial hour while he goes off w/ the B&G, you never know. Just enjoy not having to be in charge and shoot.

[Aaagogo]

so much information and so little time to absorb everything

[symes]

I decided to give this wedding thing a go so I sent out a few emails last night to local photogs and the one who I liked prob the most out of the 8 or so i contacted got back to me this morning and was impressed with my images.

He said to go over to his place run through things. He'd give me some dates , i'd get paid for them start with 2 weddings and if he likes my work then go from there....



Learn the business...

don't change your style you have the eye and that is what could make you a great wedding photographer...but like everyone will say to you on here...the business side is as important so take this opportunity to do that!

Cheers,

[picturecrazy]

He'll review my creativity based on the weddings it seems but how do you be creative as a second shooter? Just creative candids etc?


Second shooting is the BEST for creativity. You are NOT limited to getting the MUST-HAVE shots, you don't have to do things in the blink of an eye, you don't have to have your attention focused all day so you don't miss anything, you have more time to try things out, you don't have to be as strict with a timeline.

My dream is to hire an amazing primary shooter so I can do nothing but second shoot. It's so much more fun and you can get so much more creative.

As for your shots, try to bring those exposures up, and lay off that noise reduction/skin smoothing. It's way too strong.

[Tobiah]

thanks for tips. any examples of this second shooter creative examples in effect?

[Psychobiker]

Did you use a lightroom plugin called '300' for some of those?

[Tobiah]

yes for 2

[chestercopperpot]

where does one get this plug-in?

[Tobiah]

from this forum. a member made them! its in the raw processing subsection of the forum