two flash photo, what am i doing wrong?

[e r y k]

new picture attempt on PG 2

heyya POTN flash gurus :)

I recently picked up a 580ex to slave my 430ex. This is my first time out with this dual flash setup, so bear with me. Ignore my dirty car, we've been on a water ban in GA for quite some time now.

http://changaroo.com/images/IMG_8702.jpg
(1/60s, f/5.0, ISO100, FEC -1)

I had my camera on the tripod, 580ex on the canon off shoe cord, which was to the camera right (pointed at the front wheels), and my 430ex on a tripod on the camera left to light the front of the car. After I took the initial shot, i put the 430ex to the back of the car to light the rear wheel, and then I merged the shots into 1 (since i dont have 3 flashes)

I am not too satisfied with this shot. It looks too crude to me... the lights are too harsh (maybe some warming gels would help?), theres no detail above the fender / hood.

Someone recommended that I buy some alien bees, but I would really rather stick w/ two small portable flashes instead of two big flash units and an external battery pack.

What can I do to improve this shot (without spending too much money on additional gear?)

Thanks

Eric :lol:

[Alexajlex]

Well if you are going with the HRDesque (is that even a word) approach then move the flashes to light the other side of the car (raise them as well) and merge that shot in with the rest.
Rasing the flashes will give you more coverage on the car (since it seems that you have the 2 flashes pointed to the 2 wheels and the front of the car).

I would also try to drag the shutter to allow some ambient light (what little there is) in (raise ISO if you don't want to change the shutter).

[e r y k]

point taken,

would umbrellas help to soften the light? however if i did use umbrellas, would the IR sensors be in the wrong directions for it to trigger? and wouldnt ETTL be messed up since its shooting into an umbrella?

[Alexajlex]

point taken,

would umbrellas help to soften the light? however if i did use umbrellas, would the IR sensors be in the wrong directions for it to trigger? and wouldnt ETTL be messed up since its shooting into an umbrella?

Umbrellas (or some sort of softener like an omnibounce or abetterbouncecard on the flashes) will soften the light). Typically the ETTL can deal with bounced light and get you a proper exposure.

[Jim M]

Black cars are a challenge to light. The problem is, well, they're black. If you throw enough light on them that they look dark gray, all the shiny doodads will blow out. It is best if there is something to separate the black car from the background. You can do it with reflected highlights or by having a lighter background. There's a reason most car shots are done in twilight. Night shots look best if there is some other light floating around to make reflections in the dark paint. I'll stop giving advice here since the cars I shoot are race cars in motion and my knowledge of your kind of shot is limited.

[turbodude]

Your main problem is you are trying to light a car with very little light. for the sunset i would say you need atleast 3-4 strobes to light up that vehicle uniformaly and to even get close to ambient light.

[John E]

Agreed with turbodude. Your asking your two flashes to do more than they are capable of. Try re-taking with a little more daylight. Also, why is your FEC at -1? You need to crank it up because you are probably getting some reflection off the chrome or the glass. Do you have your master/slave menus set up for the two flashes? What A:B ratio are you using?

[e r y k]

ratios were at 1:1 i believe. can i not simulate 3 strobes by adding another layer with the flash in a different position in photoshop?

[Dockland]

heyya POTN flash gurus :)

I recently picked up a 580ex to slave my 430ex. This is my first time out with this dual flash setup, so bear with me. Ignore my dirty car, we've been on a water ban in GA for quite some time now.


(1/60s, f/5.0, ISO100, FEC -1)

I had my camera on the tripod, 580ex on the canon off shoe cord, which was to the camera right (pointed at the front wheels), and my 430ex on a tripod on the camera left to light the front of the car. After I took the initial shot, i put the 430ex to the back of the car to light the rear wheel, and then I merged the shots into 1 (since i dont have 3 flashes)

I am not too satisfied with this shot. It looks too crude to me... the lights are too harsh (maybe some warming gels would help?), theres no detail above the fender / hood.

Someone recommended that I buy some alien bees, but I would really rather stick w/ two small portable flashes instead of two big flash units and an external battery pack.

What can I do to improve this shot (without spending too much money on additional gear?)

Thanks

Eric :lol:


OT: I think this picture and lightning is awesome.

[ben_r_]

OT: I think this picture and lightning is awesome.

Ill second that! Sure it needs a little work on the lighting and perhaps lighting positioning, but still i think you have a great composition with the sunset in the background. Just keep working on it and youll have a killer shot! Make that old civic look new and cool again! I would recommend some more powerful strobes too. If you want to be lighting cars get some alienbees. Cheap and cant get pretty powerful depending on which model you buy.

[turbodude]

ratios were at 1:1 i believe. can i not simulate 3 strobes by adding another layer with the flash in a different position in photoshop?

I would suggest going manual. Unless you know how lighting raitios work. especially ETTL lighting ratios... Also i would suggest lighting the car from higher up. Get some light stands, get those flashes to wrap around the vehicle.

[sf1]

Could you not also do a longer shutter speed and paint the car using the 580 and 430? I'm thinking a shutter speed of something like 10 to 20 seconds, a ladder and just pushing the pilot (test) button on the back of the flash several times while it is pointed at the car. Lots of trail and error, but it could be fun to.

[Dermit]

You also may need to 'help' your flash a little by cranking up the ISO a bit. Try ISO 400 - ISO 800. Other comments here are quite valid. Once you get the exposure 'right' with the flashes you still may have a problem with shooting a black car on a black background. To seperate the subject from the background you need to try and get some 'rim' lighting by triggering a flash or two from behind the car. Maybe even triggering one inside the car may help. But definitely try bumping up the ISO. And I understand cranking the FEC to -1 when shooting a drak subject but you may try playing with that a bit as well to try and get more light.

[Unity Gain]

Dude - you can't light a black car with a black background with 2 lights unless each light is the size of a house!

There really is nothing you could have done better. The concept is bad.

If you want to shoot your car...try experiment with time of day and location. At sunrise and sunset...when the sun is below the horizon...the sky turns into one huge softbox.

If you were to put your car in a location where the sun is setting behind it....about 10-20 minutes after the sun goes below the horizon you will get a BEAUTIFUL highlight over the top edges of your car from the bright open sky. THe sky will be like a softbox. POsition your car so that there is the background is nice behind it...NO trees and crap poking out of the top ( stay away from power lines, light poles etc)...The desert, plains, ocean or something like that makes a good background.

You can take a nice shot...but it's going to require some thought and location scouting.

[Unity Gain]

Also, there's no law that says you can't turn on all your car lights...headlights, brake lights...etc

One more thing, notice the highlight on the front left corner of your car that is reflecting the sky. That is exactly the kind of highligh I'm talking about in my previous post. BUILD off that....find a nice location and shoot with a brighter sky so that the edge highlight will cover the length of your entire automobile.

It might require a gradual nneutral density filter to put over the sky and keep it from blowing out...either that or you'll have to choose an angle with no sky in the frame.

[e r y k]

ok im baack :) thanks everybody for their input. i gave it a go again today, different subject matter, different car. i dont know if my lighting technique got any better, maybe its just the car that makes the pic look good :P

anyways, tear me apart please :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/erykv1/finals/IMG_8830.jpg

exif is in tact, i believe i shot this with the flashes in manual at 1/8 power each.
should i invest in some umbrellas? B&H has the 2 impact umbrellas + light stands for around 100 i believe.

[DigiGrin]

Could you not also do a longer shutter speed and paint the car using the 580 and 430? I'm thinking a shutter speed of something like 10 to 20 seconds, a ladder and just pushing the pilot (test) button on the back of the flash several times while it is pointed at the car. Lots of trail and error, but it could be fun to.

Once you get the exposure 'right' with the flashes you still may have a problem with shooting a black car on a black background. To seperate the subject from the background you need to try and get some 'rim' lighting by triggering a flash or two from behind the car. Maybe even triggering one inside the car may help. But definitely try bumping up the ISO. And I understand cranking the FEC to -1 when shooting a drak subject but you may try playing with that a bit as well to try and get more light.

BINgO !!! :)

[e r y k]

nobody likes the second :(

[turbodude]

2nd one shows the heavy use of flash. Like i said having done "automotive portraits" before, its rare to see even lighting with just two strobes, and it shows in the 2nd pic as an example. You want to avoid those reflections. The 2nd one is much better, but honestly think the photo itself would have been better without flash.

[e r y k]

turbodude thanks again for the input, could i see some samples of your work? :D

[SkipD]

nobody likes the second :(Actually, even though the lighitng and exposure isn't bad, I very much dislike the tilted camera composition. There's no advantage to it, and you have a lot in the image that shows that the camera was tilted.

[JDubya]

Maybe the second pic would look better if there was more space between the flashes, i.e., angle them more toward the corners or the car rather than right into the wheels.

Just a thought - I'm surely no flash expert.

[sf1]

Hi eryk,

The back end of the car and spoiler is not lite really well. There are noticable hot spots on the front and rear fenders. I also think JDubya is correct with more spacing between the flashes would potentially produce better lighting and most likely get rid of the fender hot spots and possibly add light to the back end of the car.

You could also try multiple exposures and then merge to HDR.