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View Full Version : PM from Dennis on using on camera flash..


namasste
19th of December 2007 (Wed), 14:07
I was having a discussion with Dennis via PM and he wisely suggested taking it here in case others might benefit as well. Here's the jist of our messages...

Me:
Dennis, I am thinking about trying out your technique for shooting with on camera flash and a lightsphere. As a point of reference to any who didn't see your post a day ago, you used on camera flash bounced off the ceiling with a LS that had no top on it. As for my shooting environment, I could shoot on camera or we have a 10' bleacher setup right behind the hoop (about 15') that I could setup on and just feather out over the top of the key. You think this might produce decent results? My thought in the second instance is to fill with the flash rather than strobe out the ambient.

Here's my two questions..at full power, will I stop action doing this? How about at 1/2? I ask since I'd love to get a few "bursts" by lowering the recycle time/power. I rarely shoot more than 3-4 on any given burst anyway so I was hoping this might work. Maybe sticking to a shoe mounted flash with the sphere would allow this? Any thoughts?

Dennis:
Scott - the challenge you will have filling with flash and using the ambient as main is you will be limited to 1/250s shutter speed maximum. If the only reason you want to do this, rather than use the flash as the main light is the freedom to shoot bursts, FWIW, I rarely, and I do mean rarely, shoot bursts, and know many other shooters who don't either. Yes, it's nice to have that luxury, but I have found my keeper rate is WAY higher if I get the shot the first time with good timing. Almost always, one shot per second is plenty.

When I shoot with a hotshoe mounted flash and the LS, I try to use my Quantum 2X2 Turbo to power the flash to give me a quicker recycle time so I can grab one image then another shortly after. This also allows me to shoot several games and not worry about the batteries.

I have shot a couple events with a Speedlite on a stand positioned over and behind me, fired with a PW, and it does remarkably well - better than most on-camera flash situations. The challenge here will be you'll need to stay in the same position (the events where I did this were Judo meets where I had to stay put), whereas the on-camera flash (with or without the LS) gives you the freedom to move about as needed.

Me:
You had me right up to that last point Dennis. If I am using PWs, why couldn't I be mobile? I'm glad you said it works result wise too as I am seriosuly thinking this would be a more versatile way for me to shoot than the relative complexity of setting up (and gettng the wife to agree to) a full AB setup.

I prefer the single shot timed right as well but do find that frequently, the 30D needs 2-3 to nail the AF (naturally it's not the shooter!:lol:)

Dennis:
Scott - if you move too far away from the axis of the flash, you'll get some funky shadows. Our minds and eyes are used to seeing shadows being cast mostly vertically (from the big strobe in the sky) and when they are too angled (especially from one source) it looks odd. That's why two strobes/flashes crossing each other works, 'cuz they cancel each other's angled flash to some extent.

Zivnuska
19th of December 2007 (Wed), 15:31
Thank you for posting. BTW, is it too early to pre-order Dennis' book on sports photography? Money no object! Heck, with the $$ I save on Rogaine (from pulling my hair out) I'll be way ahead.

Phil

;):D:D

namasste
19th of December 2007 (Wed), 15:43
Thank you for posting. BTW, is it too early to pre-order Dennis' book on sports photography? Money no object! Heck, with the $$ I save on Rogaine (from pulling my hair out) I'll be way ahead.

Phil

;):D:D

got that right Phil. He's like the Santa of sports photography!

Darsk47
19th of December 2007 (Wed), 15:50
Good post - thanks.
And for Dennis - I said it in another thread a while back - when they give the most helpful POTNer award, you're my vote for first recipient and the award should be named after you.

Zivnuska
19th of December 2007 (Wed), 16:03
My suggestion is not completely is jest. Yes, it would be wonderful if such a book were written by Dennis and yes, I'd buy it. Not only does Dennis have the skills, but he has an acute appreciation of the problems encountered by those of us struggling to learn and the patience to teach us.

dave kadolph
19th of December 2007 (Wed), 19:38
My suggestion is not completely is jest. Yes, it would be wonderful if such a book were written by Dennis and yes, I'd buy it. Not only does Dennis have the skills, but he has an acute appreciation of the problems encountered by those of us struggling to learn and the patience to teach us.

Put me on the list!

I search his posts and save them to my favorites just to build my knowledge base :D

Sledhed
19th of December 2007 (Wed), 20:44
Dennis is becoming like a rock star around here. I know Dennis and I've shot with him a few times and even drank a few beers. He is truly a good guy and I love reading his posts too.

avwh
19th of December 2007 (Wed), 20:52
I'm marking this; need to learn about lighting for sports, and it's clear Dennis is one of the masters around here.

dave kadolph
20th of December 2007 (Thu), 05:00
Dennis is becoming like a rock star around here.


Title Fairy

Where are you?

jcpoulin
20th of December 2007 (Thu), 08:00
I agree....between Dennis and Primoz and his winter coverage, Muls and his fight coverage, we have some great sports photog's here. (I know I am missing some here!) All with great learning tips!

nicmo
20th of December 2007 (Thu), 09:37
Thanks for sharing Scott!

namasste
20th of December 2007 (Thu), 09:53
Thanks for sharing Scott!

you bet, but even though I posted, it was again Dennis' advice that I do. Is there anything this guy doesn't do well? All hail....:lol::lol:!

namasste
20th of December 2007 (Thu), 10:04
oaky, enough praise, back to work Dennis! Seriously though, I am going to pick up a Lightsphere online and wondered if you used the opaque or clear one for the images you posted when you used yours?

dmwierz
20th of December 2007 (Thu), 10:33
Scott - I have the clear one (not THE CLEAR, as in Barry Bonds). I believe this was based on some advice I either found on Fong's goofy web site, or in a forum somewhere (maybe POTN's wedding forum, or Fred Miranda).

Here's what is on Gary Fong's site:

Which Lightsphere is best for any given setting is as much a matter of photographer preference and loyalty as anything. Many pros carry both styles in their gear bag for varying lighting situations.

Both Lightspheres provide excellent diffusion and studio quality light from your on-camera flash. Both are made of flexible, premium grade vinyl and include the inverted dome made of hard, translucent plastic.

The Lightsphere-Photojournalist (PJ) is made of soft, transparent vinyl, and currently comes in two colors - CLEAR and CLOUD. The light quality transmitted through the CLEAR is somewhat cooler and a little more contrasty when compared to the CLOUD. The Lightsphere-CLEAR maximizes diffusion while minimizing light loss, allowing it to be used at greater distances. The CLEAR is highly recommended for photojournalistic assignments and general purpose photography.

The Lightsphere-CLOUD creates a more diffuse, softer, and somewhat warmer light. For this reason, it is well suited for "portrait style" lighting situations, where skin tones and flattering light are the primary focus.

Gary recommends, "Choose the CLEAR version for fast action, large groups and dimly lit scenes. Switch to the new CLOUD for the softest, warmest light yet. Great for close-ups, portraits, couples and intimate group shots."

Something you might want to consider is mimicking Fong's Chrome Dome:

http://store.garyfonginc.com/chrdom.html

He wants an outrageous amount for this thing, so I have imitated it by lining the back of my LightSphere with aluminum foil to project more, yet still diffuse, light forward.

And don't forget to take the cloudy dome off your LS when using it, thus letting the flash fire unimpeded upwards.

namasste
20th of December 2007 (Thu), 11:19
lol, chrome dome! thanks again Dennis. I'm getting some foil and a dome asap!

jcpoulin
20th of December 2007 (Thu), 11:42
I have the LS2 clear which I lined the rear with aluminum foil and the top. I also cut a central hole which takes about 1/4 of the light upward ( I need to make a little larger). I position my 580 with the long axis forward so I can change orientation on camera. Seems to work although I have a game I am covering for a players parents in a gym with poor lighting so I can really test it.

dmwierz
20th of December 2007 (Thu), 11:48
jc,

I also orient the flash in a way that allows quick changes from vertical to horizontal (per Fong's DVD and web site). I don't put the foil over the top (as in the Chrome Dome), though, since I need as much light going up as possible - just foil on the back.

Good luck, and make sure you post your results here.