Well my first impression of my 20D... (Updated with comparo)

[Adam Hicks]

A few impressions. First.. holy COW this thing is fast. It boots fast, it takes pictures so fast I don't understand how it's capturing 8.2mpixel images in such lightning bursts. Coming from the DRebel holding down the shutter on this thing and letting it go to town absolutely blows me away.

Second, it writes to the card FAST. Blazingly fast. Let's just say that I held the shutter down expecting 25 shots to go, then it sit and write to the card. When I stopped and looked at the card, there was 30 images. It had already written some to the card, freed the buffer and continued to take photos. Awesome!

Size is smaller than I expected, the same dimensions or smaller? than the DRebel, but it does feel nice in the hand.

Still looking for the ISO display... ;)

I dig the new AF sensor layout. Using the little joystick to select points is actually very accurate and goes where you want it intuitively. You can use the little joystick or the scroll wheel if it's more comfortable. The difference is easy of scrolling or only needing one directional press on the wheel.

The battery that it came with was a BP511a - can anyone tell me the difference between this and the BP511 in my DRebel? The DRebel battery had the same contacts and worked fine, but the 'a' version feels a little heavier. Maybe more capacity? I don't think I'd want to mix the two in a battery grip.

The mirror is louder, sharper and more 'crisp' than the DRebel. It feels like it's built better just by it's 'punch' Sounds weird but the two side by side have a noticable difference in shutter sound and 'feel'

I have to go read up on AI Focus vs. AI Servo, but I'll figure that out soon. It's new to me vs. the DRebel.

Otherwise I haven't even looked at the images it produces yet. If they're as good as the 10D or DRebel, then it's everything I want. I basically bought the added features, not the 8.2mpixels.

Just my $.02. Oh and kudos to Onecall.com for getting this thing to me in record time!

Adam

[Adam Hicks]

Forgot to mention... the SanDisk Extreme card of mine is MUCH faster in the camera than the standard card, both 512's. There was no difference in the DRebel. Canon has supremely improved CF write speed in this beast.

[c0ntr0lz]

did you get the kit lens? if so how was it?

[friscomgm]

You know what would really be awesome - take the same photo with both cameras and upload the results for us to see.

That would be really awesome.. :wink: 8)

[evilenglishman]

the BP511A holds more power than a standar BP511 although you can use either

[tommykjensen]

You know what would really be awesome - take the same photo with both cameras and upload the results for us to see.

That would be really awesome.. :wink: 8)

I plan to do that as soon as I get my 20D. And I will use my 70-200 mm f4L for that test.

[Scottes]

I'm interested in the comparison of my "Old" (100-400 on the 10D) to my "New" (400 Prime on the 20D).

I hope I see a noticable difference for $2600

[Belmondo]

I'm interested in the comparison of my "Old" (100-400 on the 10D) to my "New" (400 Prime on the 20D).

I hope I see a noticable difference for $2600

Yes, we are all interested, too. We applaud the sacrifice you are making in your search for knowledge. :wink:

[OviV]

I can't wait for mine to get here (tomorrow if B&H gets it out today). I am keeping my DRebel so both my wife and I can shoot together. It is going to be a pain going back and forth since the interface for the 2 is so different but I'll have to live with that.

Ovi

[Cadwell]

The battery that it came with was a BP511a - can anyone tell me the difference between this and the BP511 in my DRebel? The DRebel battery had the same contacts and worked fine, but the 'a' version feels a little heavier. Maybe more capacity? I don't think I'd want to mix the two in a battery grip.

More capacity is right. I use one together with a BP511 in a battery grip without problems in the 10D.

[Scottes]

Yes, we are all interested, too. We applaud the sacrifice you are making in your search for knowledge. :wink:

Coming from the originator of the "Four Ways To Shoot..." series of testing, well, that statement just makes me blush.

Whatever I can do, I will do for you, Tom.

[aam1234]

Adam, is the 20D bigger/smaller than 300D.

[Adam Hicks]

Width is almost exactly the same. Depth and shape are almost exactly the same. 20D is slightly taller.

I have to say that after shooting with the 20D for a day, then going back to the 300D, it feels like it was made by playschool. Go ahead 10D owners...say what you will :)

I'm so used to looking at the back of the camera for info that it's weird looking up top for camera settings. Almost inconvenient but it's just something to get used to.

You really will notice how LOUD the shutter is compared to the other cameras. I went back to DPreview last night and they have an audio file of the 20D in full auto mode... if you haven't listened to it go do it. It's simply amazing how fast this thing takes photos.

It also surprised me that the image quality tests on DPreview were every bit as good (looked noticably better to me) than the Mark II. For $1500? Am I just missing the extra weather sealing on the Mark II? Otherwise for all practical purposes it seems the 20D would do just as well in most any situation, for a lot less money. You could buy the 20D and two backup 20D's :)

Adam

[Adam Hicks]

Well ok I did a quick comparison. Nothing to fancy, but both images were taken in Av mode at f8, no flash, ISO200. Both were tripod mounted on a timed shot using the same Canon 100mm Macro 2.8 lens. I went in and cropped the same area from both images for comparison purposes. The 8.2mpixel image was obviously larger on screen. For some reason the 20D has it's EC on -1/3 but when I press the EC button to change it it shows 0. Then when I let go it goes back to -1/3 on the display. Really weird so I'm trying to figure that out. I'll just reset the camera for starters, but it doesn't appear to have effected the image much.

Soooo the quality is really quite similar from this makeshift test.

The 20D
http://www.golilm.com/DSLR/D20CropF8AvNoFlash.jpg

And the DRebel
http://www.golilm.com/DSLR/300DCropF8AvNoFlash.jpg

I'll try and get some more as I find interesting subjects!

Adam

[cmM]

Thanks for taking the time.

I shall buy one of these :) . Probably at the beginning of next year. So how do you like the focus? Did you test in low light? Is that center point really as sensitive as i think?

[SENster7]

Width is almost exactly the same. Depth and shape are almost exactly the same. 20D is slightly taller.

I have to say that after shooting with the 20D for a day, then going back to the 300D, it feels like it was made by playschool. Go ahead 10D owners...say what you will :)

I'm so used to looking at the back of the camera for info that it's weird looking up top for camera settings. Almost inconvenient but it's just something to get used to.

You really will notice how LOUD the shutter is compared to the other cameras. I went back to DPreview last night and they have an audio file of the 20D in full auto mode... if you haven't listened to it go do it. It's simply amazing how fast this thing takes photos.

It also surprised me that the image quality tests on DPreview were every bit as good (looked noticably better to me) than the Mark II. For $1500? Am I just missing the extra weather sealing on the Mark II? Otherwise for all practical purposes it seems the 20D would do just as well in most any situation, for a lot less money. You could buy the 20D and two backup 20D's :)

Adam

Adam I totally agree with you, the Digital Rebel feels like a toy camera after using the 20D. This thing is smoking fast! I fired off 27 shots in jpeg without taking my finger off the trigger, and I don't have a fast card at all! I will always love my Digital Rebel, but I love my 20D in a different way now :)

[Adam Hicks]

Oh and I forgot to mention low light... I went out last night into my yard, aimed it at some plants where it was PITCH BLACK and the thing fired off it's little red focus light and focused instantly and perfectly. My old cameras would buzz the flash to get a focus. This thing was much faster and amazed me how accurate it focused on the desired location, even in extreme low light!

Adam

[Persian-Rice]

Its probably the lighting, but the drebel image is a little sharper which is probably because it has a nicer contrast.

But I really like how the 8.2 crop is much bigger.

Congrats on the new purchase BTW.

[Adam Hicks]

Thanks, the 20D was also set for exposure compensation at -1/3, which I've since fixed. Not sure how it got there, but everything else was identical. This might explain the difference in brightness, although I think the shutter speed remained identical... so maybe not!

Anyways it is a fine tool indeed :)

Adam

[Persian-Rice]

Thanks, the 20D was also set for exposure compensation at -1/3, which I've since fixed. Not sure how it got there, but everything else was identical. This might explain the difference in brightness, although I think the shutter speed remained identical... so maybe not!

Anyways it is a fine tool indeed :)

Adam

Ya after reading this, now I am not sure whether to go used 10D+ grip, 20D or 1D MK1
But I also need money for lenses, there is pretty much a 600$ diff between each camera. Thats is good enough for 70-200 f4 and the 17-40 f4. I'm so torn, 10D with two nice lenses, 20D with one nice lens or 1D which might be out of my reach since prices have gone up. 20d was off my list, but after reading some actual user reviews it's cleared some of my concerns.

Bah, I hate Canon for making things so difficult.

[Adam Hicks]

Go to DPreview and listen to the MP3 of the Canon 20D vs. the 10D vs. the D70 in shutter speeds. Especially notice the difference between the 10D and the 20D. It's a huge difference in performance.

I really like the new multi-controller joystick and focus point layout as well, something you won't get on the 10D. Plus if you decide you like the EF-S lenses you can't use the 10D with them.

Get the 20D and the 70-200 f4 and you're money.

Adam

[Persian-Rice]

Go to DPreview and listen to the MP3 of the Canon 20D vs. the 10D vs. the D70 in shutter speeds. Especially notice the difference between the 10D and the 20D. It's a huge difference in performance.

I really like the new multi-controller joystick and focus point layout as well, something you won't get on the 10D. Plus if you decide you like the EF-S lenses you can't use the 10D with them.

Get the 20D and the 70-200 f4 and you're money.

Adam

The fps is a concern, I worked with a Nikon F5 which has 8 fps. This is where I am uncomfortable with the 10D and 20D as are not quite up there, the 5 fps is much better then the 3 of the 10D though. I shoot on the streets a lot, so a high fps, at least for me, is pretty important.

I guess I will have to probably test a 20D myself before I decide.

[jik22]

Are the exposure settings viewable looking through the eviewfinder?

[defordphoto]

Its probably the lighting, but the drebel image is a little sharper which is probably because it has a nicer contrast.

But I really like how the 8.2 crop is much bigger.

Congrats on the new purchase BTW.

The Drebel shot is sharper. 10D shots are sharper out of the camera than MKII shots. But, like the MKII the 20D will take MUCH more post-processing USM and therefore the end result will be a stunningly sharper photo since there is substantially more information in an 8.2mp files than a 6.3mp file.

Looks like the software for both the MKII and 20D performs less in-camera sharpening, leaving those options (as they should be) to the photographer in their post-processing.

People got their panties all in a huge wad in April/May because the MKII photos are soft. But, once you slam them with some heavy USM, that a 6.3mp file cannot handle, you'll cut your eyelids just viewing the photo.

And these shots on the web do them no justice. The REAL results are in the prints.

Stunning. Absolutely stunning.

[Persian-Rice]

Its probably the lighting, but the drebel image is a little sharper which is probably because it has a nicer contrast.

But I really like how the 8.2 crop is much bigger.

Congrats on the new purchase BTW.

The Drebel shot is sharper. 10D shots are sharper out of the camera than MKII shots. But, like the MKII the 20D will take MUCH more post-processing USM and therefore the end result will be a stunningly sharper photo since there is substantially more information in an 8.2mp files than a 6.3mp file.

Looks like the software for both the MKII and 20D performs less in-camera sharpening, leaving those options (as they should be) to the photographer in their post-processing.

People got their panties all in a huge wad in April/May because the MKII photos are soft. But, once you slam them with some heavy USM, that a 6.3mp file cannot handle, you'll cut your eyelids just viewing the photo.

And these shots on the web do them no justice. The REAL results are in the prints.

Stunning. Absolutely stunning.

You are absolutely right, that fact completely slipped my mind. I guess its best if you get raw shots and compare 100% crops.

[Adam Hicks]

Just got a change to play with the AI Servo. Some jets were out near the JRB (was Carswell) in Ft. Worth doing training exercises so I took a few shots with the 100-400. Gotta love that AI Servo in all modes! Set it to Tv at around 1000 and let 'er fly!

Adam

These are all resized but not otherwise post-processed.

http://www.golilm.com/photography/two_jets_takeoff_small.jpg

http://www.golilm.com/photography/jettrails.jpg

In this one the guy is clearly looking down at me on the ground. It's been resized quite a bit but in the full size it's really obvious
http://www.golilm.com/photography/jet%20copilot%20looking%20at%20me%20small.jpg

Here's the guy they were chasing around, a member of the Fighting Omars :)
http://www.golilm.com/photography/fightingomars1.jpg

[Persian-Rice]

Omg, I wish i lived near fighter jets, atleast when they are quiet lol.

Sweet pics.

[cmM]

Adam, you forgot to update your sig ;)

And be carefull with that big white lens that looks like a rocket propeller pointed at fighter planes. The guy looking down was ready to shoot you :P

[Adam Hicks]

Funny you should mention that. Two men with machine guns (MP on the base) came by and kicked me out. They told me that they didn't mind people taking photos, but not with the type of equipment I was using. So I was booted out because my lens was too big.

And I keep trying to convince myself that size doesn't matter. Hmmph.

;)

Adam

[drisley]

Funny you should mention that. Two men with machine guns (MP on the base) came by and kicked me out. They told me that they didn't mind people taking photos, but not with the type of equipment I was using. So I was booted out because my lens was too big.
And I keep trying to convince myself that size doesn't matter. Hmmph.
Adam
:shock: Egads! No way! That's lens prejudice!

Thanks for the pics and review. I think another reason why the 300D shot looks "better" is because the 20D has improved dynamic range, and therefore looks like it lacks contrast.
I've had my 300D for 7 months, and yesterday at a football game, I got to see a 10D in person for the first time! The photog was nice enough to let me try it. I agree with your compariosn of the 20D/300D... the 300D feels like a toy compared to the 10D. I didnt realize there would be so much difference. The biggest surprise was the difference in the layout/look of the viewfinder. The 10D was clearer, and AF points were bigger. It also seemed to have a contrast circle in the center for manual focusing which the 300D doesnt have. Now I really want my 20D soon.

[kiwimichael]

Second, it writes to the card FAST. Blazingly fast. Let's just say that I held the shutter down expecting 25 shots to go, then it sit and write to the card. When I stopped and looked at the card, there was 30 images. It had already written some to the card, freed the buffer and continued to take photos. Awesome!

Adam

Adam, thanks for your impressions of the 20D. DId you take these photos in JPEG or RAW? I'm really interested in how quickly the 20D lets you shoort RAW images. I'm frequently frustrated by the limited buffer in my 10D - I see "BUSY" more often than I like.

Cheers
Michael

[aam1234]

"I have to go read up on AI Focus vs. AI Servo, but I'll figure that out soon. It's new to me vs. the DRebel"

I'm sure many will be interested in the above.

[Adam Hicks]

Well to answer a few questions, the AI Servo is a constant focus. The AI Focus uses single shot focus mode (beeps and focus point lights) when shooting still objects, but as soon as they start to run away, it auto switches to full time focus. Pretty nifty although I haven't tried it yet. Every jet image I shot was in AI Servo and I'd say 99.5% were in excellent focus.

When I was shooting AI Servo in RAW mode, I DEFINITELY saw a big decrease in buffer space. After 5 shots or so it goes down to write direct to card. With the SanDisk Extreme this wasn't quite as bad, but it is nothing like large JPG mode, where it just shoots and shoots and shoots. Luckily for most of what I'll be doing, 5 shots at a time will suffice. If I need to get nutty I'll just make sure my WB and EC is set and go JPG.

Adam

[drisley]

In addition to the blazing CF card speed of the 20D, the other nice thing about the 20D, even for us raw shooters, is that it can write to the card while you continue to take pictures.
The 10D and 300D pause writing while you shoot a picture.

[Persian-Rice]

In addition to the blazing CF card speed of the 20D, the other nice thing about the 20D, even for us raw shooters, is that it can write to the card while you continue to take pictures.
The 10D and 300D pause writing while you shoot a picture.

Before the reviews, I was sooooo disappointed, now slowly but surely I'm starting to think this is good enough for now. But now the hard part is I can get a 10D w grip and about 2500 actuations for $1300 or a 20D & grip for about $2400...........quite the difference.

Oh what to do............

[Adam Hicks]

Just get the 20D for now, and the grip later. The 20D with the BP-511A is rated at 1,000 shots per charge. That's plenty of shots without a battery grip, and you can easily swap a second battery if you need it.

That's my plan anyways. So far the battery life is awesome.

If you haven't listened to that blasted MP3 yet... go do it. You need to hear the shutter difference between the 20D and 10D for yourself!

If you have, I'll leave you alone ;)

[Persian-Rice]

Just get the 20D for now, and the grip later. The 20D with the BP-511A is rated at 1,000 shots per charge. That's plenty of shots without a battery grip, and you can easily swap a second battery if you need it.

That's my plan anyways. So far the battery life is awesome.

If you haven't listened to that blasted MP3 yet... go do it. You need to hear the shutter difference between the 20D and 10D for yourself!

If you have, I'll leave you alone ;)

Its not that, I have above average sized hands. Normal SlR's without a grip or without a built in one are not comfortable for me by any means.

I did listen to it, I know the differnces already as I used an 8fps camera until recently.

[Adam Hicks]

Oh. Well if you have ham hands, then you would definitely want the grip for comfort. This thing is a little taller than the DRebel, but doesn't feel like it in your hand.

I read your post about the 8fps, I was just thinking that if you were used to 8fps, then the 10D would REALLY seem slow.

Adam

[izzypizzy]

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/page6.asp theres the mp3 to the shutter sound

[Persian-Rice]

I read your post about the 8fps, I was just thinking that if you were used to 8fps, then the 10D would REALLY seem slow.
Adam

Ya, thats why I haven't bought one yet, I'm contemplating. I need a camera that will last me for a while. I am in a 4 year photography & journalism major and after that the camera is gone for 2 pro ones.............

AKA student who needs to spend wisely, since I have no money. Ill try to go to a store tomorrow and see if they have any I can take for a test run.
The 20D now seems like a very competitive camera when compared to the 1D. But better technology and cheaper, but can i afford it is a different question.

[Vegas Poboy]

I picked my 20D up today from a local store Thanks Sahara Camera & so far so good. Must get into the owners manual a little more but sof I love the ISO & the Flash improvements. I used my 550ex and things came out great in the store. I'll give it a full workover Thursday & Friday night.

[Morden]

AAAARRGHHHH! Pikachu! I hate it! :twisted: