question with this setup... lighting gurus help~

[EOS mE]

going strobist style... instead of getting ebay triggers, i'd figure i'll just invest in some PWII. it's gonna hurt the wallet but will be worth it in the long run.

so, here's my question... i'll be running both the 580EX II & 430EX off camera on lightstands. will it be ok for me to just get a pair of PWII instead of 3? i'll have one on camera and one on the 580EXII. then use the 580 to trigger the 430 slave.

but i'm wondering if i don't have a direct line of sight for the 580 to the 430.. can i mount the 430 onto a digital optical hotshoe to receive the signal from the 580? i've read from Lon's posting on Strobist Flickr that canon flashs don't go well with optical hotshoe.. so i'm not sure if using a digital version would be helpful or not.

i rather not buy 3 PWII.. cuz it's hella bank... so if i can work off of just using 2 PWII.. then that would be ok.

any suggestions?

[SkipD]

Your plan should work indoors with reflective walls, etc., but could be problematic outdoors.

[EOS mE]

Your plan should work indoors with reflective walls, etc., but could be problematic outdoors.

damn skip.. that's fast! yup, this is geared towards an indoor setup. i know if i ever want this to go outdoors.. i'll have to spring for another PWII. but for now.. just for indoor setup.

so it should work right? using the PWII to trigger the 580EXII which in turns using the IR to trigger the 430EX Slave?

[Curtis N]

Yes, it will work, but a limitation of using the 580EX in master manual mode triggered via PW is that your sync speed is limited to 1/125.

A set of Elinchrom Skyports and an extra receiver will cost you less than two PWs. And with the Skyports you could put each receiver in a separate group and trigger one or the other or both by sliding a switch on the transmitter.

[MT Stringer]

The 430 won't fire from an optical trigger. I own the flash and tried it unsuccessfully. Now I use the hotshoe adaptors and Skyports and it fires everytime.

Check out this link.
http://www.flashzebra.com/wizardcables/hotshoe.shtml
This will plug into your PW and it will fire your Speedlight.
Good luck.
MIke

Mike

[EOS mE]

Yes, it will work, but a limitation of using the 580EX in master manual mode triggered via PW is that your sync speed is limited to 1/125.

A set of Elinchrom Skyports and an extra receiver will cost you less than two PWs. And with the Skyports you could put each receiver in a separate group and trigger one or the other or both by sliding a switch on the transmitter.

curtis.. is there any US vendor that carries the Elinchrom Skyports?

[SkipD]

curtis.. is there any US vendor that carries the Elinchrom Skyports?Both Adorama and B&H Photo Video carry them.

Make sure you get the "universal" Skyports, not the ones that have the proprietary plug and features for the Elinchrom flash units.

[EOS mE]

Both Adorama and B&H Photo Video carry them.

Make sure you get the "universal" Skyports, not the ones that have the proprietary plug and features for the Elinchrom flash units.

thanks Skip.. searching on B&H now.

[Curtis N]

Calumet, Amazon... all the usual suspects.

[EOS mE]

is this the one you guys are suggesting?

Elinchrom EL-Skyport Universal Radio Slave Receiver & Transmitter Set (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/505381-REG/Elinchrom_19360_EL_Skyport_Universal_Radio_Slave.h tml) and then to add an additional universal receiver, i need to get this: EL-Skyport Universal Radio Slave Receiver (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/505378-REG/Elinchrom_19352_EL_Skyport_Universal_Radio_Slave.h tml)

[SkipD]

is this the one you guys are suggesting?

Elinchrom EL-Skyport Universal Radio Slave Receiver & Transmitter Set (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/505381-REG/Elinchrom_19360_EL_Skyport_Universal_Radio_Slave.h tml) and then to add an additional universal receiver, i need to get this: EL-Skyport Universal Radio Slave Receiver (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/505378-REG/Elinchrom_19352_EL_Skyport_Universal_Radio_Slave.h tml)Those are the ones you'll want.

[FlashZebra]

To address your original question.

To use only two PW or only a Skyport transmitter/receiver set with the two flash units you cite.

One method:
Inside you could use a radio slave (PW or Skyport) on the 430EX and use an inexpensive optical slave on the 580EX II. You must connect the optical slave to the built in PC port on the 580EX II, not the hotshoe. I think Curtis is using this method now. Unlike the other EX flash units, the 580EX II, if using the built in PC port, does seem to work nicely with garden variety optical slaves. Avoid the "digital" version you mention.

Another method:
Use a splitter and fire both flash units using one PW or one Skyport receiver (this can be done if the sync Voltage of both flash units are reasonably close, as it would be with the 430EX and the 580EX II). This would require a long sync cord from one flash to the other (use mono miniphone cords and splitters). Not optimal, but cords running between flash units are not nearly as problematic as cords from a flash unit to the camera, and it does save the cost of an extra receiver or transceiver. Personally I think this is a viable method when working with flash units that have compatible sync Voltages (as in this specific case) that seems to be mostly overlooked.

Enjoy! Lon

[EOS mE]

Those are the ones you'll want.



Thanks Skip. Just found some reviews on the skyports... looking very good till the part i see the receivers uses "non-replaceable, rechargable Li-ion battery". I'm in the consumer industry and i know no matter how wonderful the rechargable Li-ion battery is.. the more you recharge every time, the chances of the battery dying is sooner. So, what's to happen after that? I don't think I would be able to go to any radio shack to get replacement batteries. :(




Thanks Lon! Here comes the questions in red.

One method:
Inside you could use a radio slave (PW or Skyport) on the 430EX and use an inexpensive optical slave on the 580EX II. You must connect the optical slave to the built in PC port on the 580EX II, not the hotshoe. I think Curtis is using this method now. Unlike the other EX flash units, the 580EX II, if using the built in PC port, does seem to work nicely with garden variety optical slaves. Avoid the "digital" version you mention.

So in this first method, the 430EX becomes the master while the 580EXII becomes the slave? Also, am I safe to assume that using either PWII or Skyport will disable the use of ETTL right?

Another method:
Use a splitter and fire both flash units using one PW or one Skyport receiver (this can be done if the sync Voltage of both flash units are reasonably close, as it would be with the 430EX and the 580EX II). This would require a long sync cord from one flash to the other (use mono miniphone cords and splitters). Not optimal, but cords running between flash units are not nearly as problematic as cords from a flash unit to the camera, and it does save the cost of an extra receiver or transceiver. Personally I think this is a viable method that seems to be mostly overlooked.

The second method i'll pass. I know it's probably the best sync and the cheapest route to go. but because i'll be shooting maternity photos and really don't want any future mommy or little kids tripping over the cords.

[Curtis N]

Lon makes some good points.
I completely forgot about the optical slave option for the 580EX II. I have in fact used it that way.

You could get a Skyport set with a single receiver, and use either a splitter and PC cord to connect the receiver to both flash units, or simply connect the receiver to the 430EX and connect an optical slave to the 580EX II.

[EOS mE]

Curtis, is this the optical slave you are talking about? if so, which one to use?

http://flashzebra.com/opticalslaves/index.shtml

[FlashZebra]

One method:
Inside you could use a radio slave (PW or Skyport) on the 430EX and use an inexpensive optical slave on the 580EX II. You must connect the optical slave to the built in PC port on the 580EX II, not the hotshoe. I think Curtis is using this method now. Unlike the other EX flash units, the 580EX II, if using the built in PC port, does seem to work nicely with garden variety optical slaves. Avoid the "digital" version you mention.

So in this first method, the 430EX becomes the master while the 580EXII becomes the slave? Also, am I safe to assume that using either PWII or Skyport will disable the use of ETTL right?
No ETTL with either Skyports or Pocket Wizards.

You are correct in the master/slave designations above. But, it is mostly a meaningless designation.

Enjoy! Lon

[EOS mE]

...or simply connect the receiver to the 430EX and connect an optical slave to the 580EX II.

in doing so, what will be the max sync: 1/125?

[FlashZebra]

in doing so, what will be the max sync: 1/125?
No, the 1/125 maximum sync speed is only if you are using what I call "hybrid" triggering (but no other human seems to call it that). Hybrid triggering is lashing both a radio slave on a Canon Master unit, and using Canon's own infrared system for firing the other Canon compatible flash units.

With a Skyport or PW and either the optical slave or the cord method I described, you will only be limited by the maximum X-sync speed of your particular camera (1/250 second on your Canon 30D).

Enjoy! Lon

[EOS mE]

No, the 1/125 maximum sync speed is only if you are using what I call "hybrid" triggering. Hybrid triggering is lashing both a radio slave on a Canon Master unit, and using Canon's own infrared system for the other flash units.

With the radio slave and either the optical slave or the cord method I described you will only be limited by the maximum X-sync speed of your particular camera (1/250 second on your Canon 30D).

Enjoy! Lon

thanks Lon! so for the optical slave.. you have two of them on your site. Which one should i get to work on my 580EXII? or will both work?

[FlashZebra]

thanks Lon! so for the optical slave.. you have two of them on your site. Which one should i get to work on my 580EXII? or will both work?
Someone else will have to help you with that.

Enjoy! Lon

[Curtis N]

Curtis, is this the optical slave you are talking about? if so, which one to use?
http://flashzebra.com/opticalslaves/index.shtmlEither one will work. Normally I'd say pop the extra 2 bucks for the extended range version, but it appears to be temporarily out of stock.

You'll also need a male-male PC cord to connect one to your 580EX II. FlashZebra sells them also.

I'm sure Lon will be happy to answer your questions if you send him an email through the FlashZebra site.

[EOS mE]

thanks Curtis!

Lon... "you've got mail"

[DEMO]

Hey Rui, so which route are you going? I just recieved a single Pocket Wizard for Christmas, and I'm most likely going to buy another two, but I'm entertaining the idea of getting skyports.

Thank for the quick response Lon, I ordered 3 Screwlock PC to PW cables earlier today.. :cool:

[EOS mE]

Rafael, i'm going with the El Skyports route. although i like the PWII, but for what i'm going to be shooting, mainly indoor conditions, should be fine.

lucky you! got a PW for christmas!! Santa must've missed my house on the way to yours.. hehe ;)

cheers~

[DEMO]

Damn that Santa..

Cool well once you get them make sure to let me know how you like them.. I doubt I'll buy another two PW's any time soon, as this year being my all time most expensive Christmas :(. I'm affraid I'll be needing to cut up my debit and credit cards just to stop from buying my self gifts.. :p

[PacAce]

Damn that Santa..

Cool well once you get them make sure to let me know how you like them.. I doubt I'll buy another two PW's any time soon, as this year being my all time most expensive Christmas :(. I'm affraid I'll be needing to cut up my debit and credit cards just to stop from buying my self gifts.. :p

You should buy at least one more PW unit. One PW unit is as useful as half a pair of shoes (unless you're one-legged). Or if you have a Sekonic meter with a PW module and you want to use the PW that Santa brought you to fire your camera remotely. ;)

[EOS mE]

yup.. exactly what Leo said. Raf, you definitely need to get at least one more PW. or u can sell the PW and put the money towards EL Skyports.. hehe.

actually i haven't placed my orders yet with B&H. was reading another thread.. and looks like i might need to throw in a lightmeter to get exposures spot on. sigh.. more money to spend... need to cut up credit card or use B&H's bill me later.