eye-one display 2

[chrisvl]

Bought one and calibrated my monitor but it seems too washed out to me. Almost as a yellowish cast. temp 5000, gamma 1.8.

I actually prefer the settings that I was used to.

Anyone else had a similar experience.

[Kafn8td]

Just got a pop up to recalibrate mine. I am surprised how much of an improvement it made on all my monitors.
Which mode did you use? I didn't lay it perfectly flat once and when I came back it was obviously mis calibrated and I had to redo it.

[René Damkot]

That's D50 setting. Not much monitors that will look good on that.
Use D65 (6500K, Gamma 2.2)

[chrisvl]

Rene can you elaborate on D50 vs D65.
Thanks.

[chrisvl]

Recalibrated back to 6500 & 2.2.
What I don't understand is that Exposure Manager my Lab has a calibration requirement of 5000 and 1.8.
Is there a quick and simple explanation.

[René Damkot]

Link1 (http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/monitor_calibration.htm), Link2 (http://www.updig.org/guidelines/calibration.php), Link 3 (http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html). And of course, there's the link from my sig....

[chrisvl]

Read thru link3 in your sig already. Still not clear. Will read the other links. All ready had the Dry Creek one since I print at Costco.

I am just confused as I didn't have any color issues with printing but got the I1 as a gift and decided to use it.

Thanks for the links.

[René Damkot]

Hmm, not sure why you have color issues "with printing" now? Printing hasn't changed a bit. Only thing that changed is your monitor calibration...

IMO monitors should be calibrated to 6500K, Gamma 2.2 for most users.
Don't use D50 unless you are absolutely sure why you'd have to be using it. And that your screen is actually capable of giving good colors at D50 setting. A lot of screens aren't because it's too far off their 'native' setting.

[chrisvl]

Whoa! I'm not having printing problems. I just didn't like how my monitor looked after calibration. I actually created anothe profile at 6000 and 2.2.
Looks more pleasing than the 6500..
Will be reading alot more later.

[Lowner]

If your prints after drying look like the monitor displays, then you're sorted. Forget anything else, that why we profile the monitor. If they are not the same, then there is still work to do. Whether that work is profiling or elsewhere time will tell.

Yes, I agree it will look a pathetic weakling compared to the virile brilliant, saturated screen you looked at before you profiled, but that was not "real". That was what the monitor manufacturer wants Joe Public to look at, not a critical photographer. However, you will quickly get used to it's new appearance.

Richard

[agedbriar]

I had problems with some type of portraits coming out with a noticeable yellow shift in skin tones when printed. One portrait of a middle-aged lady with a "broad spectrum" of skin tones was especially nasty. The picture had been fine-tuned in the TIFF file, then saved in JPEG and printed from the latter.

Then I once happened to open the TIFF and the derived JPEG one beside the other and the difference was immediately evident. My Serif PhotoPlus editor was introducing the yellow shift while simply converting the TIFF to JPEG. Looking at each version separately I just didn't notice the difference.

Now, having recently bought an HP Photosmart D7360, I started to print directly from TIFF and for the moment everything seems to be fine.

[Scott-LYP]

We have the eye-one display II and use 6500K, Gamma 2.2 (Apple monitor conected to a PC with an ATI video card) and never have a problem at all.

[René Damkot]

Then I once happened to open the TIFF and the derived JPEG one beside the other and the difference was immediately evident. My Serif PhotoPlus editor was introducing the yellow shift while simply converting the TIFF to JPEG.
My first guess would be that Serif PhotoPlus strips the color profile and/or isn't color managed....

[agedbriar]

My first guess would be that Serif PhotoPlus strips the color profile and/or isn't color managed....

One thing I have ascertained long since: PhotoPlus does loose the Exif data when opening the RAW converter generated TIFF (generated either by Bibble or RawShooter).

Does the color profile go with the Exif? How can I check what's happening with the profile? I have Filealizer, but I don't seem able to find anything in the files that would make sense.

PhotoPlus is color managed though, and I have the whole chain set to sRGB.

[Lowner]

The stripping of Exif data and whether your software recognises colour management are different issues.

Photoshop looses Exif data, or at least my v.7 does, but recognises a colour profile.

Rather too many so called photo software do not have a colour managed system.

sRGB is not colour managed. AdobeRGB is and there are presumably others that are. The web, which is what sRGB is all about, is not colour managed.

Richard

[agedbriar]

In PhotoPlus 10, under File, I have access to the Color Management dialog.
There, I have Enable color management ticked, Internal RGB set to sRGB, Monitor profile to sRGB too.

If in PhotoPlus I open a file that I created in Bibble in Adobe RGB (as a test only), I have to manually select Adobe RGB as the Internal RGB to see the colors correctly. And I have no option to convert between color spaces.

I apologize for hijacking this thread. That was not my intention when I first posted - things just evolved. But having gone this far, I will really appreciate any additional advice.

Thanks.

[ChasP505]

...Almost as a yellowish cast... Anyone else had a similar experience.

I just had a similar experience with my Spyder2 Pro. I got a new LCD monitor about a month ago and when I calibrated it, it introduced yellowish to brownish tones into all my grays. I spoke to tech support at ColorVision and they recommended updating my video card's drivers plus using the native white point instead of 6500K. This did the trick.

Make sure when you calibrate that all screensavers, anti-virus and anti-spyware are disabled.

[René Damkot]

sRGB is not colour managed. AdobeRGB is and there are presumably others that are. The web, which is what sRGB is all about, is not colour managed.

Only the last part ("the web isn't color managed") is about right.
*Most* browsers aren't color managed.
Safari is, IE on OSX can be.

"sRGB" is a color profile/space. If you're working on sRGB files in a color managed program, you are working color managed.

[René Damkot]

Monitor profile to sRGB too.

Monitor profile should be set to monitor profile! *Not* sRGB.

[agedbriar]

Monitor profile should be set to monitor profile! *Not* sRGB.

I have only generic profiles to select from the Monitor profile dropdown (sRGB, aRGB, ProPhoto, Wide Gamut etc.), nothing specific to my Sony monitor.

Also, and I should have stressed this before, the color shift I'm talking about is quite subtle (practically only particular skin tones seem to be visibly affected), nothing like the color space mismatches that I can simulate.

I'll do some more homework and post a screenshot of a side-by-side display, but right now I have guests on their way.

Happy New Year! (though I would rather go on working on this issue...)

[ChasP505]

In PhotoPlus 10, under File, I have access to the Color Management dialog.
There, I have Enable color management ticked, Internal RGB set to sRGB, Monitor profile to sRGB too.

The Monitor profile setting doesn't have some sort of Browse function to locate and select your monitor profile (similar to DPP)?

[agedbriar]

OK, here is a screen capture of a side by side wiew, showing the problem I have been occasionally experiencing with skin tones.

TL - original TIFF created by Bibble
TR - original file resaved unmodified as TIFF by PhotoPlus
BL - original file saved unmodified as JPEG by PhotoPlus (note the shift to yellow in skin tones)
BR - original file saved unmodified as JPEG by FastStone Image Viewer.

Could the color shift in BL be produced by a loss of saturation during conversion to JPEG since if I slightly increase saturation of the original before saving it to JPEG, I can obtain a pretty good match in the resulting JPEG? (result not included below)

There is no browse option to search for the monitor profile. But please consider that the TIFF file (TR) and the JPEG (BL) are both created under the same PhotoPlus settings and yet the color is not the same. In fact, this JPEG shift is the only color issue I have, printing inclusive.

Also of interest, the JPEG generated by FastStone (BR) is just a tad brighter than the original, but no shift there. I have been putting all this down to inaccuracies of the JPEG format, derived from compression.

[Lowner]

Agedbriar,

When my eye1 display2 finishes doing its thing, it automatically arranges for the profile its just created to be the one the monitor uses. I do not need to tell it anything or do anything with the profile, its totally automatic and always has been.

As it cannot hurt, why not try running the calibration again and seeing what it does right at the end. Don't "save" anything , just click on finish. Now how is it behaving?

Not sure here. Do you need to turn the PC off/on again before the new profile starts being applied?

Edited to add: While I CAN see differences in the 4 images you have posted, its fairly subtle to my eyes.

Richard

[agedbriar]

Richard,

As I don't upload my pictures, I've never calibrated my monitor with a colorimeter (I do not have one); I rather adjusted it manually to match the printed output. There may still be some finetuning to do in the near future, but right now I'm reasonably happy with the monitor/print match obtained.

My problem is not that of colors not being displayed right on the monitor. The problem is that if I convert a TIFF file into a JPEG (without any modification applied -- hey, without even looking at the picture displayed while performing the open-save routine!), the final JPEG's color doesn't match the original TIFF's color.

Indeed, on my monitor the color in the pictures above may be displayed different from what a calibrated monitor will display, but the color shift between TR and BL is evident on either one, as you actually confirmed.

If I print first from the TIFF and then from the JPEG, each print will be true to its corresponding file displayed on my monitor (workplace lighting and metamerism effects aside), but the two prints will be slightly different between them - as much different as the files displayed on monitor are.

The difference is subtle, I agree, and seems to only be a real issue in connection with some particular skin tones. Anyway, I was surprised when I first noticed it after finishing the picture in TIFF, saving as JPEG and later printing from the JPEG withuout being aware of the difference that had occurred. Since then I just print from the TIFFs to avoid surprises from JPEG conversions.

The latter "wisdom" was what I actually wanted to share when I chipped in with my first post on this thread.

Regards,

agedbriar

[René Damkot]

Small, yet notable difference.
My guess would be that saving as a jpg in PhotoPlus strips the ICC profile.
PSCS2 'Save for web' does the same by default.

Only way of testing that would be to open the images with a viewer that will show the profile (a lot of exif viewers will, as wil Photoshop)

[xpsentity]

"Real World Color Management" by the late Bruce Fraser.

Will explain everything far better than the forum here can.

[agedbriar]

Small, yet notable difference.
My guess would be that saving as a jpg in PhotoPlus strips the ICC profile.
PSCS2 'Save for web' does the same by default.

Only way of testing that would be to open the images with a viewer that will show the profile (a lot of exif viewers will, as wil Photoshop)


Yes René, here are the details that seem to confirm your diagnosis and also open new questions.

Sequence A

1. Convert RAW to TIFF in Bibble. TIFF's EXIF available in FastStone Viewer (FS).
2. Open TIFF created by Bibble in PhotoPlus (PhP). Invoke EXIF and PhP says: "No EXIF info available".
3. Resave as TIFF in PhP: EXIF still available in FS. No color shift.
4. Save as JPEG in PhP: EXIF not available in FS. Color shift present.

Sequence B

1. Convert RAW to JPEG in Bibble. JPEG's EXIF available in FS.
2. Open JPEG created by Bibble in PhP. Invoke EXIF and PhP duly displays EXIF data.
3. Resave as JPEG in PhP: EXIF not available in FS. Color shift present.
4. Save as TIFF in PhP: EXIF not available in FS. No color shift.

If the above confirms your guess, then why does the profile stripping not produce the color shift also in the EXIF-less TIFF file created under B-4?

And why would the ICC profile be required in the first place if both Bibble and PhP are running the default sRGB? (I apologize if this is a dumb one and I should take xpsentity's advice first...)

Regards.

EDIT:: My own last question gave me an idea. I disabled Color Management in PhP and redid Sequence A above. No change.

[agedbriar]

"Real World Color Management" by the late Bruce Fraser.

Will explain everything far better than the forum here can.


Had a look at the book you suggest on Amazon. It certainly seems a good one, though most of it will obviously be overkill for an amateur. But if the basics are explained well...

Anyway, before ordering I'll go through my Color Management for Digital Photographers for Dummies and René's links one more time. But I have it bookmarked.

Thanks.

[René Damkot]

Anyway, before ordering I'll go through my Color Management for Digital Photographers for Dummies and René's links one more time. But I have it bookmarked.

It's linked to from the link in my sig as well ;)

[agedbriar]

It's linked to from the link in my sig as well ;)

Will ask Amazon if I can buy 60 selected pages of the 600. :)