300d, 10d, or 20d, I cant decide

[josh51699]

What is the huge difference between the 300d and the 10d and 20d besides fps and feel of the camera

I mean as far as image quality goes, does the 10d or 20d offer anything more than the 300d?

[Spargo]

Image quality depends mostly on the lens. Image SIZES are 6.3 megapixels for the 300D and 10D, and I *think* 8.2 megapixels for the 20D.

[evidence tech]

I have been having the same trouble. I am looking to purchase a "nice" camera however I cant decide between the three. Anyone care to help???

[josh51699]

so give me an example...how much larger of a picture can i make with the 8.2 mp camera

is that basically what it boils down to is picture size, fps, and build

what else do the 10d and 20d offer over the 300d?

and you know what go ahead and throw the nikon d70 in there to for comparison

[drisley]

The 20D offers much improved AF system, improved flash metering, and better dynamic range. All those should help improve image quality.

[timmyquest]

so give me an example...how much larger of a picture can i make with the 8.2 mp camera

is that basically what it boils down to is picture size, fps, and build

what else do the 10d and 20d offer over the 300d?

10D vs 300D vs 20D

in short

Buffer/write time
10D has a slightly larger buffer then the 300D. Four shots (300D) does not last long when shooting most types of subjects, even in "studio" type situations. This small buffer is hampered by an extremely slow write time. This is the case for both the 10D and the 300D.

The 20D has improved this a ton! As a matter of fact, the 20D is the fastest writing camera canon makes, and i'm pretty sure it's the fastest writing digital camera anyone makes. Not to mention the buffer is more then twice of that of the 10D, which is more then twice that of the 300D.

It will only take 5 RAW images at a time vs the 10Ds 9 however because of the write time i'd be willing to bet you could take more raws more often with the 20D.

Lenses
All EOS cameras obviously take all standard EF (EF-S (http://www.eos-magazine.com/News_41_EF-S18-55.html)) lenses however canon has introduced a new line of EF lenses that are optimized for the 1.6 crop factor found in the XXD cameras. This allows the lenses to be made cheaper because they are smaller. Which means you can get a wide angle lens that produces nice photos for around $100 (18-55 kit lens found with the rebel). It is important to note that these new lenses ONLY WORK ON THE 300D AND 20D. This is achieved by using a smaller mirror, a smaller mirror reflects less light into the viewfinder thus making a darker viewfinder.

EF-S lenses will also most likely only last a few years because most people would think (and hope) that the 1.6 crop factor is only going to be around for a few years...if that.

Autofocus

The 300D does not allow you to switch the AF mode. If you want to go to your sons baseball game, or football game, or go in your back yard and photograph birds...you may have a harder time with this then if you and the 10D or 20D. This is because these two cameras provide AI servo (http://photonotes.org/other/ai-servo.html).

Both the 300D and 10D use the same 7 point CMOS AF sensor. Although it is accurate it can be rather frustrating due to the "small number" of AF points. The 20D has nine, although it isnt quiet the quantum leap that say a 1 series camera makes (with 45 points), it is however suppose to be a large improvement with AF accuracy.

The 20D also has the lowest available light AF sensitivity (did i say that right?) then any other camera out there. This will help with slow lenses or obviously low light situations.

ISO noise

Todays DSLR's handle noise pretty darn well, the 300D/10D have the exact same image sensor so any image you can capture with the 10D you can capture with the 300D.

Although it has more pixels in the same area (which is suppose to introduce more noise) the 20D appears to have considerably less noise then the sensor found in the 300D/10D. Is it quiet as good as canon says (ISO1600 on the 20D=ISO400 on the 10D)? Thats been debated and i would find it hard to believe if it is. What i can tell you is that it is improved apon which in its self is pretty amazing.

Image quality/print size

We have actually reached a point (in my opinion) where image quality and print sizes are no longer an issue. More MP's will always be a thing to look for in the [near] future however the limiting factor to todays cameras in my opinion (and i'm sure there is some sort of MTF char out there that agrees with me) is the lenses, and not the sensors ability to make a sharp line.

4MP's is large enough for very large high quality prints, 6.3 is as well, 8.2 is as well. The only thing a high MP camera gives you is the ability to crop more drastically which for some photographers, this is a good thing.


If it were up to me, and you couldnt afford or didnt need the speed of a 1DMKI i'd tell you to get the best you can right now...the 20D is clearly that.

[robertwgross]

If you can describe your intended photography, you will get better advice about the selection of a camera.

If you say that you are a wildlife shooter, then you will get pointed one way.

If you say that you want to shoot weddings and portraits, you will get different advice.

If you say that you intend to shoot fast-action sports, like football, then it will be something different.

A camera's images at 8 megapixels can be printed to a larger size than images at 6 megapixels, assuming the same detail quality in the print. However, to some folks, that is a big deal.

---Bob Gross---

[josh51699]

Ok I dont like portraits of people usually unless it would be from far off w/the telephoto catching them at "real moments"

I really like macro photography, street, landscrape, and architecture.

For me I do believe taking a larger picture and being able to pic and crop highlights is a big plus.

also full manual is something i have to have where i can work everything from a dial like i could with an old camera when i was a kid


sorry my intrests are so broad, i hope that helps

[timmyquest]

Ok I dont like portraits of people usually unless it would be from far off w/the telephoto catching them at "real moments"

I really like macro photography, street, landscrape, and architecture.

For me I do believe taking a larger picture and being able to pic and crop highlights is a big plus.

sorry my intrests are so broad, i hope that helps

Some people on these boards require your SS # before then can give you any advice :roll:

The truth is that the 300D/10D are ALMOST geared towards the same user, and the 10D/20D IS geared towards the same user.

A camera is a camera, it takes pictures...just get the one you feel would work best for you.

[Persian-Rice]

As Timmy mentioned, the 300D/10D/20D are geared toward the same general user.

When it comes to image quality, there wont be much of a difference. The advantage of the 20D is the functionality. Its a faster camera all around.

It depends on the money you have. At the end of the day, a good photographer can take better pictures with a 300D then a poor photographer with a 1ds. It also comes down to lenses. IMHO, lenses are actually the #1 part of the system. Camera's come and go. Lenses are expensive and cane make or break the image quality.

Cheers.

[Perfect_10]

At this point in time I would grab the 10D .. they are at an all time low price-wise .. will get a bit cheaper. The 20D is yet unproven .. and demanding top dollar.

[briangig]

I agree with perfect 10.

The 300d is a great camera, but you can get a 10d for only a few bucks more (I'm talking used), and it is all around a better camera (in terms of the camera body itself, and in the controls you have).

[Roy NN7DX]

The difference? OK, here:

Best Value? 300D but now insane used 10D prices make that my value camera recommendation... These are both great cameras... They were great last week, why would they change since I now have a 20D? They didn't. They are still great. I have something like 50k+ images made with 10D/300D cameras so those models don't have a lot that is hidden from me anymore...

Image quality? 20D... Just came this afternoon and I am floored... I'll go into the details at some other time... There are enough examples around to hog out your download bandwidth so take a look... I have now used all three with the exact same lenses shared on them... I know the 20D produces better, more detailed image files with lower noise... You may think whatever you like, all else being equal, I know the 20D images are better. I've seen it.

So... Value? My wife looked over my shoulder as I downloaded the first 100 images or so and said, "Whew, that's crazy! You should sell the 10D and Dreb and we'll get another 20D for your second body... I'd use it."... and this grin :D was hers... To her the 20D is the better value as we'd shoot another 50k or more images this next year and better images are worth the extra bit of loot to her...

Me? If you don't have your wife buying camera gear for you I'd recommend the used $800 10D's that seem to be everywhere... That extra $700 will go a long way towards getting some good glass... That is less than the price of a new EF70-200/f4L or a used BigMa, the 50-500mm Sigma EX series super tele zoom... both are wicked wicked good lenses.

Good camera and great glass will beat a great camera and poor glass. All else being equal :wink:

Details about my 20D epiphany using familiar L glass another time... I'm beat... I can't wait for some light outside to go shoot more photos...