-=20D reviews and 1st Impressions=-

[Vegas Poboy]

I decided to make this its own post hopefully other new owners will comment.

<edit> Please post ONLY your Reviews and or Impressions in the thread <edit> CDS

<edit> Please DO NOT post links to any material that you did not create 1st hand <edit> CDS

My Comments about the 20D
1. Lightweight body but my hands is too big without the battery grip
2. Fast with the shutter & the buffer is great for doing sports
3. ISO is a big help now I can keep my f/4 lense and get the job done with out going f2.8
4. focusing is much better including the focus points
5. Pop up flash is great it clears the lens hood on my 17-40 f/4
6. I do like the B&W mode and the filters built into the camera even though I'll still use photoshop to edit & convert images.

Overall I'm heavy into youth & semi-pro sports and did not have the extra $$$ to spend on the MArk II. I was tired of switching lens on shoots. I also needed a DSLR for backup & not my Elan II. To me this is not a FAD just a worthwhile investment to keep me in the middle of the action, It is worth the purchase.

If I was only doing portraits, weddings & vacationing I would have never upgraded.

The picture quality is good & I see no big boost over the 10D. Hopefully if someone is out there trying to decide on the purchase this will help them decide. Most important thing is to think about your purpose and go from there. Unless you have the $$ to blow

[who10]

I decided to make this its own post hopefully other new owners will comment...

The picture quality is good & I see no big boost over the 10D. Hopefully if someone is out there trying to decide on the purchase this will help them decide. Most important thing is to think about your purpose and go from there. Unless you have the $$ to blow

This post is a good idea... and I like your closing a lot. In the year plus that I used the 10D my only persistent complaint was getting critical focus on many of my hand held shots especially with long lenses. The other features are nice, but not enough to have persuaded me upgrade - I'm thrilled with the improvement I've noticed after around a hundred test shots. This by itself made the 20D decision a happy one for me.

David

http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=299392#299392

[Morden]

Very brief first impression: it's FAST!

The 5 fps is nice (especially for JPEGs).
The low shutter lag is also nice.
The writing speed is great.
The almost instantaneous boot-up (from switch-on to ready) is FABULOUS! :D

[Morden]

A small point that won't affect many users, but will a few - such as me;

Unlike on the 10D, Canon's EP-EX15 eyepiece extender fits perfectly on the 20D. :)

[roanjohn]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


First impressions:

It is better in black!!! :-p

It is not a huge difference compared to the Rebel (in terms of the weight and size).

It is FAST!!! It turns on instantly.........and when I say instantly, I MEAN INSTANTLY!!! faster than you can blink!!! (this is very good for me!!)

With my 70-200 f2.8 and 50 f1.4 (the only two lenses I've tried focusing it with), the AF is blazing fast........and oh soooo accurate. I can tell right away!!! (this is compared to the Rebel).

ISO 1600............oh, if you can see the full size images, it is CLEAN!!! and when I say clean, I MEAN CLEAN!!! WOOHOOO!!!

The mini-joystick.........well its a joy to use..........I am already used to it!!! It's so intuitive...........setting your focus point is instantaneous!!! You rock, and you're there!!!

THANKS CANON!!!

About the only thing that needs getting used to is the shutter sound. It's loud.......and so not like the Rebel..........I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing.

OH........and the viewfinder...........much better and crisper than the Rebel.

And with a top AV speed of 1/8000 (did I hear 1.8 in daylight??), selectable AF mode and longer battery life..........what more can I ask for??!!!

THIS CAMERA ROCKS!!!

Thanks Canon!!!

Ro1

[tommykjensen]

First impressions:

- its darn fast
- buttons are different from 300D - this will take a little time to get used to, especially the on/off button

Just did a few tests with different cards.

I shot 20 seconds continuos in P mode ISO 1600 (They were supposed to be ISO 100 but I messed up and forgot I had set ISO at 1600). 3 tests, first JPEG small fine, second JPEG Large fine and last RAW.

Lexar 1 GB Prof 80x
Number of Large fine JPEG: 40 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 20 sec
Number of Small fine JPEG: 68
Time for drive light to go out: 12
Number of RAW: 15 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 16

Kingston 1 GB
Number of Large fine JPEG: 39 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 17
Number of Small fine JPEG: 60
Time for drive light to go out: 7
Number of RAW: 15 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 17

Hitachi 2 GB microdrive
Number of Large fine JPEG: 33 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 14
Number of Small fine JPEG: 61
Time for drive light to go out: 14
Number of RAW: 15 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 16


Here is another test with ISO 100.

Lexar 1 GB Prof 80x
Number of Large fine JPEG: 60 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 20 sec
Number of Small fine JPEG: 97
Time for drive light to go out: 16
Number of RAW: 20 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 16

SanDisk Ultra II 1 GB
Number of Large fine JPEG: 51 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 12 sec
Number of Small fine JPEG: 97
Time for drive light to go out: 12
Number of RAW: 20 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 10

Hitachi 2 GB microdrive
Number of Large fine JPEG: 53 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 16
Number of Small fine JPEG: 89
Time for drive light to go out: 20
Number of RAW: 20 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 12

Hitachi 2 GB microdrive - FAT32 16 K clusters
Number of Large fine JPEG: 56 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 17
Number of Small fine JPEG: 90
Time for drive light to go out: 21
Number of RAW: 19 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 11

Not a big difference.

Conclusion on my not very scientific test: The speed of the card is not so important when shooting RAW.

But with JPEG the faster the card the more shots before BUSY. In one minute with the Kingston card I shot 213 photos (also ISO 1600!)!

[roanjohn]

Another worthless observation:

The pop-up flash produces the smoothest sound when it pops up. It's not one of those "BOO, SCARED YA" sound the Rebel does when the flash pops up.

................told ya it was worthless :mrgreen:

Ro1

[Morden]

20D related, since one is included with the camera; if anyone is interested in the difference between the BP511 and the BP511A batteries, it's this:

BP511 : 1100 mAh
BP511A : 1390 mAh

Simple, eh? :)

[photography By Evangelos]

What I like
1-Super fast
2-Fast A/F Finally
3-Light weight
4-Price
5-Noise Reduction
6-Better software like Digital Photo Professional :lol:


What I do not like :wink:
1-Loud Mirror Slap very loud in fact
2-Bit too small with out grip


ANgelo 8)

[Adam Hicks]

My thoughts were...

Why is the viewfinder so friggin grainy in bright light? I don't manual focus thank you very much. Sell a 'grain-laden' viewfinder replacement option for those that do :)

The camera is fast for a $1500 camera. It writes to CF cards at a phenomenal rate. By the time it's done taking 25-30 consecutive shots at high speed, it's done writing them to the card. I don't get it, but I love it!

Camera is light. I'm back to the 'needing a battery grip to balance any decent lens' as I was with the Rebel.

New autofocus points in the circular pattern are really nice, and made nicer by the mini-joystick which allows you to select any point with one movement towards the AF point, or a click to select center.

I wish Canon would display ISO. It's on my 'pre-shot checklist' but it wouldn't take up much room to show at all times.

Shot comparisons show that the quality (both cameras at Parameter 2) is extremely similar to the DRebel, the 20D being more forgiving from a post processing standpoint because the 8.2 will give you a larger workable image.

I'd like it if Canon would remove the 1/4" border around the LCD display screen and increase the display to fit that area. Although it is perfectly functional, a little larger Info screen would allow more room for the histogram, etc.

That's all I have so far. Otherwise it's a fine little beast for $1500!!!

Adam

[chris clements]

Just unpacking my 20D this evening (first UK deliveries yesterday)
One of the big selling ponts for the new battery grip is that it takes ordinary AA'a as well as BP511's.
What the publicity didn't say (or hid away) was that the AA insert is an EXTRA!
Shame on you, Canon.

[chris clements]

Should've opened the box first, not taken the salesman's word for it.
The AA tray is supplied with the grip.
Maybe I should shut up and take some pictures.

[davidwegs]

The images are very clean as long as you have sufficient light for the exposure you choose.

Ifound that under exposing more than 1/2 stop makes the noise a little more 10D like.

Its snappy and I'm not jsut talking fast but the sound it makes is snappy. I thought it would be like my 1D MkII in that arena but it has a choppier sound??

I love the size.

It has a fast and accurate focus. This part is a big step closer to the MkII than I had anticipated.

Custom fn. 13 (1) is a great idea, this is way, way better than the MkII.

Faster sync is a treat for the fill flash (outdoor/sunlit wedding shots).

I will use it (them) for the first time this W/end for a paid gig. We'll see how it does.

[JoeTampa]

My thoughts, compared, when applicable, to the 10D:


Low noise at high ISO is REAL. I shot an ISO 3200 shot outside this evening that had ISO 800/1600 level noise on the 10D. I'm not kidding.

Startup is instantaneous.

20D is noticably slower with a 1G IBM Microdrive than with a Sandisk 2G CF card.

The new "joystick" multi-control is VERY nice for panning around zoomed shots.

PLAYBACK IS FAST. No more image display, then wait 2 secs for the "sharpened" version. What's more, erasing is not beholden to those times either. You can delete images on the 20D faster than you can view images on the 10D. NO JOKE.

5fps and the buffer write speed are awesome.

Being able to see images while the camera writes the buffer is great. No more "BUSY" screen!


I can't say enough... I'm in love.


Only thing I don't like... The included charger doesn't have a cord - the outlet prongs pop out from the back. I prefer the cord - I like to place the charger on a table. This charger will likely stay in the box.

Battery grip comes in Tuesday.

[Jan Shim]

I have been shooting with a 300D for a year and yesterday I picked up a 20D along with a 24-70mm f/2.8 L USM and a 1GB SanDisk CF. Gallery can be viewed here http://www.janshim.com/royalparade/jp/ but I don't think the photos say much about how AWESOME the 20D performs (did I say the 20D is pretty awesome?) I have no review to post since I'm still pretty much learning how to use more effectively, many of the design and layout take getting used to unless you're switching from a 10D.

This morning i noticed something. There is a spec of (white) dust inside the back LCD and it's noticeable when it's off and I've also noticed the LCD has one bad pixel. Now it's not a question of whether I should get it changed-I have to.

Photos of my 20D with 24-70mm f/2.8 L lens
http://www.janshim.com/photos/eos20d_1.jpg
http://www.janshim.com/photos/eos20d_1.jpg

Jan Shim

[Patrick 10D]

Likes:

Start-up time
AF speed
5 fps

Dislikes:

Door/cover for protecting the CF slot
Battery grip is not as good as that for 10D
Loud shutter

But then again, this after only 125 frames shot.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Just a reminder.

This is a REVIEW thread.

Discussions will be deleted.

Feel free to post discussions on the 20D in any of the other 57 20D threads :wink:

Thanks.

CDS

[chartbin]

Very fast. I have nothing to compare it with, though.
About 6 shots in 1 second max!

see pics
http://www.phototalk.net/photos/data/500/1994IMG_0147_6th.jpg

[chartbin]

This may be better link, a bit more descriptive!
http://www.phototalk.net/photos/showphoto.php/photo/41990

[peterm1]

This is a quick review. I had the 1DmkI and got the 20D for the smaller size and weight - otherwise I was very happy with the 1D.

I love how small and light the 20D is, and in most respects it is enough of a camera for me (I am an amateur and mostly take people photos). I love the joystick since I can change focus points so quickly without having to recompose. It feels very solid and focuses fast, has great high ISO performance, etc. (what everyone else says is good about the 20D I basically agree with). I do have 2 issues with the camera though.

First, mine has locked up twice so far. I hope Canon is going to issue a firmware fix for this (I know it has been reported elsewhere).

More of an issue for me is that the photos just don't seem to have the same "pop" that 1DmkI files have - the 20D files are much softer and need a lot more post processing, and I am having a hard time getting the same quality results as the 1D (maybe the DPP raw processor has something to do with this). I can't go back to the 1D since it is simply too big for me. If I can learn how to process the files better to bring out more detail (and if C1 supports this camera soon), I am sure I will be happier with it.

Peter

[roanjohn]

ETTL-II is amazing!!! using it with my 550 EX, all flash photos are properly exposed!!! IT TRULY IS A STEP AHEAD OF MY REBEL.

The "new" matte focusing screen is great............Yes, it has that grainy appearance outdoors but it really makes everything nice and crisp through your viewfinder.

The photos are about the same as the Rebel, it is a bit more conservative in that there is less contrast and saturation -BUT- it can tolerate more post processing with beautiful results.

Evaluative metering is great!! It really reduces the chance of blowing out highlights and etc........I keep it on 95% of the time.

Photos will follow laterz.........

:-)

Ro1

[Milner]

Got Mine last Friday. It is my first DSLR and I love it!!!!
It was easy to pick up and start shooting. Familar feel, I have had an A2.
This camera has coverted me to the digital world. It is FAST!! Faster than my A2. Shot a CircleJerks concert with it the same night I got it. I love it!! I shoot mostly motor sports, this thing will be great!!
I found this forum and the pre-release reviews the day I was going to order a 10d....Decided to wait, I am very glad I did.
THANKS
Marc

[tommykjensen]

Formatted my microdrive to FAT32 - 16 k clusters and tested again, did not make any significant difference.

Hitachi 2 GB microdrive - FAT32 16 K clusters
Number of Large fine JPEG: 56 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 17
Number of Small fine JPEG: 90
Time for drive light to go out: 21
Number of RAW: 19 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 11

[prsast]

I took the digital leap and bought a 1D Mark II about 3 weeks ago and yesterday had a chance to use my fathers new 20D. I must admit it was a moment I was dreading, had I wasted a lot of money would the 20D have done all I needed??.....

First impressions of the 20D

- Well designed and light body (almost 2/3 the weight of the 1D)
- Excellent little flash (a feature I have always missed on the 1D, fantastic for fill-in on outside portraits)
- Slightly slower and a lot noisier (shutter) than the 1D. However, I was surprised how quickly it coped with writing out the data (2Gb 80x CF card), this was one of the reasons I had convinced myself to buy the 1D – I’m now sure the 20D could handle my requirements.
- Picture quality is about the same, the 1D seems more punchy and sharper directly from the camera however after a play in Photoshop both images are very comparable)
- Overall a fantastic package and a absolute bargain at 1200 UKP

Indeed after the first 30 minutes I was feeling a little green and a touch sick………

I then put the 100-400mm L lens onto the 20D and found the 1.6x multiplication made the lens almost unusable without a tripod, handholding a 600mm f5.6 even with IS is just not possible if you want to get sharpness I require. Indeed even the 1D makes the 400mm end is a tripod only zone. I then went to the 17-40mm (my favorite lens), when I bought the 1D, I as a little disappointed I would loose the 17mm end but even at 22mm (17 x 1.3) it still has a significant wide angle effect. When used on the 20D the 17mm wide end suddenly becomes a 27.2mm very average wide angle and the lens lost all of it appeal and flare.

My thoughts now are mixed, the 20D is a great camera and if you are looking to move to Canon or start out in digital photography you won’t regret buying a 20D. If however like me you have a significant investment in glass then it may be worth considering the extra for a 1D mark II. Like me most photographers I have carefully built up a collection of lenses that suits my shooting requirements. The 1.3x focal length multiplication has had little effect on this; however, the 1.6x that Canon and Nikon have forced upon us in the more affordable end of the digital camera world will have significant effect on our existing glass.

If I was to use the 20D I would almost certainly need to get a new wide angle (either the new canon 10-22mm or ultra wide Sigma zoom) and I would also probably buy a new telephoto zoom (70-200mm) keeping the 100-400mm as a tripod only lens. The cost of the new glass alone in my case makes the 20D a less appealing option.

Overall, I was very impressed with the 20D but felt I had made a good choice with my 1D Mark II. If your upgrading from a D30/D60/300D or 10D then you will be used to the 1.6 factor and will probable have made lens choice based on the 1.6 factor. If however you are considering a move from 35mm then think twice and add in the cost of the new glass.

Cheers,

Andy

[Guillermo Freige]

These are my findings, about image quality differences between the 20D and the Drebel. As the DRebel and 10D shares essentially the same sensors, these findings are also valid against the 10D. In fact, some test, as the ISO 3200 comparison, aren´t possible with a "standard" Drebel, but only a hacked one or a 10D
Well, my preliminary comparisons using third party images seems to hold. I've tested only high ISO settings (800 to 3200).
I took a test image from my desk, using only a desk lamp as the main source and a couple of ceiling lamps as fill ones. The image was very contrasted, as the desk lamp illuminates directly some white papers. WB was set in AWB and the camera was set to Av with the lens wideopen at 18mm. All shots taken at JPEG/Fine, and AdobeRGB (with Parameter 2 in the 20D) in both cameras, to keep all parameters as similar as possible between the cameras.
Well, overall, the 20D at all ISO settings copes better with highlights. The white papers in the DRebel looks unnatural, as the red channel was clipped. Dark areas and midtones look similar, but highlights were better preserved by the 20D, using the same exposure, and the bright areas look more like in film. The red channel in the 20D wasn´t ever close to the clipping point.
At 800 there is no much difference, but shadows look cleaner and more saturated.
At 1600, things start to be different. The Drebel start to show a lot of noise, mostly in shadows. Also color saturation start to decrease, most obviously in shadows too. The 20D keeps the same saturation level and a much cleaner look in all areas. Shadows are better than in the DRebel at 800.
At 3200 shadow saturation tends to 0 in the DRebel, and luma and chroma noise are everywhere. The 20D still keeps good shadow saturation, and noise levels are even better in shadows than in the DRebel at 1600, and noise looks more like grain. Highlights and midtones are slightly noisier (mostly chroma) than the DRebel at 1600, but overall I think the 20D at 3200 looks better than the DRebel at 1600.
As soon as I can, I'll put the comparison shots (and those findings), resized and with some 100% crops, in my FAQ page, probably this weekend, together with some sunny outdoor tests.
In other topic, I've experienced not a single hangup yet, but I took only a few 100´s of pictures yet, using a 1GB Microdrive and the kit lens, the 50/1.8 and 28-135IS

[WestFalcon]

I just got my 20D and have only taken a few shots but the results have blown me away. I finally have a camera that focuses accurately and I have 3-10D's and none of them are accurate. The pictures come out of the camera very sharp and hardly need any sharpening which surprised me. Finally, my 70-200 F4 L lens looks to be as sharp as everyone says. My old cameras were holding it back. I need the grip however....too small without it. My first impression is very good and it has not "shut down" on me yet....I got it from B&H. Thumbs up so far.

[tracyh]

I just got my 20d a few days ago (also from B&H). No lockups... and I did try to make it happen. I am using the batteries that I used in my d60, however--- haven't used the new one yet.

The biggest thing(s) that blow me away is the accuracy of white balance and exposure using the "auto" white balance and evaluative metering. I could never do this with my d60. I had to be super cognizant of white balance settings... and always used center-weighted metering. The 20d seems to be very good at determining the correct wb/exposure so far. The other thing I've noticed is accuracy of color tone. I found the d60 to always be a little too much on the red/satured side of things. For shooting portraits, I always had to back off saturation. Now... of course I *liked* the saturation for landscapes, so I may find myself dialing up the other direction on the 20d!

Also... love the magnification capabilities on the view screen. Very nice. I think the only thing I'll miss from the d60 (at this early stage of the game anyway) is the focus assist lamp. It seems that you have to pop up the flash to get AF assist in the 20d (and apparently the 10d was that way too). The d60 had a separate lamp for AF that just came on when you needed it.

Now my only struggle is whether to keep the d60 for a backup or try to sell it to acquire more stuff! :D

[tommykjensen]

Tested my new SanDisk Ultra II 1 GB

SanDisk Ultra II 1 GB
Number of Large fine JPEG: 51 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 12 sec
Number of Small fine JPEG: 97
Time for drive light to go out: 12
Number of RAW: 20 (buffer full before 20 seconds)
Time for drive light to go out: 10

See post higher for test details.

[Mark_Cohran]

Upgraded from the 10D. Features I most like:

1. Instant on -- sweet. No more missed shots due to camera sleep.
2. The multi-controller set to "direct" via the custom function. I can choose any AF point with one button.
3. Low noise at high ISO.
4. I actually like the coarse viewfinder. For me, it makes manual focus a tad easier.
5. Instant reviews, even when the buffer is writing to the card.

Features that aren't so great:

1. Well, I didn't like having to buy yet another grip instead of transferring my BG-ED3 from my 10D to the 20D.
2. 8 megapixels doesn't make that much of a difference for the type of photography I do (but it's still nice to have).


Mark

[Mark Kemp]

OK well, just took my new 20D out for a test.

Shot a few pics of the local cathedral

Image quality and detail - very good. Its probably just because of the extra pixels but unprocessed JPEGs looks sharper than my old D30.

WB and exposure - so far so good - auto wb and evaluative metering producing acceptable and consistent results.

AF - well its fine, but to be honest a big solid cathedral is not much of a test

Overal very happy

except the software

Don't like file viewer as a downloader - much more work than the older zoombrowser that just finds the card or camera and does a batch copy and name convert. Unfortunately zoombrowser doesn't like the 20D raw format and file viewer doesnt like the D30 raw format. DPP converts both but won't download. I guess I may have to buy breezebrowser.

Also tried my new sigma 28-300 travel zoom. About what I expected adequate if rather soft, but its handy to have something with that range and its very small and light.

Taking the 20D to shoot some motocross tomorrow - I will post more about the AF and speed after that.

[tonyt]

Just got my 20D and grip last week from Imaging Spectrum in Dallas. If you're tired of the shoddy treatment you get from the boys in New York, you ought to try IS. Very friendly and accomodating.

What I Like

Price
Balance (with grip)
Fast
Layout
Focus Points/Joystick

What I Don't Like

Wish the grip had the same ruberized feel as the camera.

Other than that, I can't think of anything else. I haven't had enough time to put it through its paces yet.

[drisley]

Likes:

1. Fast! FAST! FAST! Even with the same 12x CF card I used in the Rebel, the 20D is SO much faster in every way!

2. I love the multi-controller!

3. I like the blackness! :)

4. The increased dynamic range (DR) is awesome. I read a review from a pro photog who said the DR on the 20D is now more like the 1 series cameras, very close to the 1DMkII. When you do blow out a highlight, the transition to 255 is still nice and smooth.
On my first day of shooting I took this picture (http://www.fotop.net/albums/sharpnsmart/09242004/MG_3035.jpg) into a bright sky.
When I looked at the histogram, the sky was flashing white, showing clipped highlights. On the Rebel the resulting picture's sky would have been solid white. When I got home, I was surprised to see that the sky was actually still a shade of blue, and still contained detail! Awesome!
The result is a much more natural look. I can now "shoot to the right" with confidence!

5. I also really like the improved/smaller battery charger that requires no cable. It's just like the one the G3 had. Some people prefer the other kind, but this is SO much more portable.

6. 1/8000s maximum shutter speed! This doesnt seem to get much mention... However, I like to shoot wide open (F2) alot to isolate subjects, and on bright, sunny days I've bumped into the 1/4000s max on the Rebel many times.

7. Shutter sound has a really nice, authoritative "crunch" to it. Some people dont seem to like it, but I prefer it over the Rebel and 10D anyday.

ISO1600 seems improved over the Rebel, but I will have to wait until C1 Pro supports the 20D to make better comparisons. I always found that C1 Pro conversions had less noise than the Canon or Adobe software.

Dislikes:

None really. If I had to pick one, it may lie with the battery grip, which I dont have yet. It's fairly expensive compared to the Rebel grip and also it looks sort of smooth and "plastic" much like the Rebel's making it slide out of your hand much easier than the nice rubberized grip/build of the 20D. From what I've heard the 10D had a better grip.

[Mark Kemp]

OK now I am impressed with this camera.

I just shot 200 motocross pics. Front on and panning shots and jumps.

Very few are out of focus - so the AF is working pretty well.

Quality otherwise is good too, autoexposure working well and the colours look fine.

Noticeably better than my old D30, especially the AF and obviously the resolution.

So I reckon that my 20D was money well spent.

[Seamless]

OK well, just took my new 20D out for a test.

Shot a few pics of the local cathedral

...

AF - well its fine, but to be honest a big solid cathedral is not much of a test.

Mark, were you able to try stained glass windows? I've sometimes found that with very high windows, intricate patterns, and light/dark patterns (but especially with overall low contrast windows) that autofocus can be difficult to evaluate until looking at the shots at full resolution.

Jay Giusti
Chicago IL

[Mark Kemp]

Nope sorry,

I was only photographing the outside as a test of the camera. I only had about 20 minutes - maybe I will try the stained glass another time.

But the manual does say that low contrats situations do not suit the autofocus.

[Andrea_T]

This is more of a 'first impressions' response than a review as I've only had chance to take the camera out twice, but I am very impressed and will be selling my 10D in due course.

Major plusses are the vastly-improved (instant) start-up time, the AF speed and accuracy, 5 fps and low noise. It also handles well and although I don't use the on-board flash much it seems as though the extra height will help with clearing larger lenses.

The main reason I prefer it to the 10D, which I've used for 18 months and used with largely very good results, is that I do a lot of sports/action shooting and I found the 10D lacking in that regard. So much so that I bought a used 1D earlier this year and discovered what an excellent body that is, with the only drawback being the size and weight when carrying it around.

I'm curious to know if the 20D can bridge the gap and effectively replace both the 10D AND the 1D, which have had very distinct roles for the last few months.

Anyway, so far so good.

[blinking8s]

got mine today

AF system is as good as my elan 7n it seems

Shutter speed is damn nice

Body and feel is awesome

img quality is superb...yes it appears to need some sharpening, GOOD i like control in the darkroom just like i like it in Photoshop...I dont want a camera that takes pictures for me, I am a photographic agent and artistic freedom is my battlefield

great in low light (high iso), even with the standard kit lens

fast, fast, fast...the camera is more trigger happy than i am :) bootup time rocks too

ZERO complaints...I like it a lot more than the 10d and d70 i tried out over the summer...although close the the 10d, the buffer and AF fill a large gap for what people were wanting

[Yan]

Love it for shooting a moving object.

1: Flexibility of the ISO change is wonderful (compare to the film that I can only change after 36 shots with not so cheap film)
2: It is FAST.. faster than film (I think..)
3: LONG battery life ( much much better than my 7 years old digicame)
4: Enjoy taking Rally photos with 5fps.
4.5: nice neck strap (but why "Canon" is upside down??)

5: bit hard to put my "emotion" into the shot.. because back of my head.. I am saying "I can check the shot immidiately so if I do not like, re-take one more.."
6: 1.6 crop factor.. 100mm Macro (my walk around with 7NE) is not anymore a walk around lens with 20D

I think my 20D will be a nice friend of 7NE.. My expectation for each of them does not overlap too much.. so that means I am not letting either of them go.. from now on I can keep Slide film on 7NE all the time with 100 Macro. and 20D would serve the purpose of the snap shots with the kit lens and Rally Photograph with "rental" white L zooms. and of course.. digital would help when I try to learn new tequnic (since I can review it at the spot and learn what I did wrong and fix it)

* last but not least *
I thank everyone for giving me a lot of wise input about DSLR and encouraged me to get into this wonderful hobby.

[elbirth]

I finally received my 20D yesterday, although a bit later in the day, so I didn't get a chance to do too much shooting with it.

However, I just wanted to post my first impressions of it along with the other people, especially since this is my first DSLR.

- It feels very solid to me, and the blackness and sleek design of it looks amazing. My hand fits on it just about perfectly, and isn't too big or too small.
- The startup time really IS amazing, especially when comparing it to my friend's 300D. I'm already taking pictures before his camera is finished starting up!
- I love how easy it is to change options via the buttons and dials on top of the camera (ISO, exposure compensation, white balance, etc).
- The shutter is loud as some people have mentioned, but it doesn't bother me like I thought it would... it has an almost distinguished sound to it, I can't really describe it.
- Noise at the higher ISOs is GREAT. I shot several pictures at 1600 ISO and saw very little noise in comparison to some lower ISOs of my G3.
- The AF works very well, even in low light, and it's very fast to compose a shot and take it.

Overall, I am extremely happy I purchased this camera. I almost started to get bummd out about it with all the people saying "I'm glad I didn't buy a 20D after hearing about all the problems!" I haven't tried to make it lock up or anything, but so far in the short amount of time I've had it to play with, I haven't had any issues, and hope I don't at all. I'm one happy 20D owner right now.

[WestFalcon]

I just shot some pictures with the built-in flash on my 20D. Everyone of them were sharp, perfectly exposed, hardly needed any sharpening and the color was gorgeous. I'm finding this camera to be a dream camera...much better than my D30,D60 and 10D's. THe extra megapixels make for really great enlargements...noticeably better than the 10D. Wow....this is a stellar effort by Canon. I was going to get a 1D Mark but I am happy with this one. I would like a wider angle lens though which the Mark II would give me.

[Mark Kemp]

I just shot some pictures with the built-in flash on my 20D. Everyone of them were sharp, perfectly exposed, hardly needed any sharpening and the color was gorgeous. I'm finding this camera to be a dream camera...much better than my D30,D60 and 10D's. THe extra megapixels make for really great enlargements...noticeably better than the 10D. Wow....this is a stellar effort by Canon. I was going to get a 1D Mark but I am happy with this one. I would like a wider angle lens though which the Mark II would give me.

In a month or two the EFS10-22 will be avaialable and that will fit the 20D

[WestFalcon]

Mark...that lens will be great focal length if it performs ok. I'll get one if the reviews are favorable. I shoot house interiors and that would be nice.

[Jon]

Coming from D60:
Like:
ISO on the top buttons
Start-up speed
Additional focussing points
Better battery life

Getting used to:
Different way of setting "Info" on review
On/off switch position


Dislike:
New EOSViewer software. Canon's on a downward slide with the software that comes with these guys. The upgraded ZB software (4.x) was worse than the version that came with the D60, and this one's still worse. Why won't they let me view pictures that predate EXIF 2.2 data encoding?

[phili1]

This is my first Digital SLR but I have owned several Eos cameras.

It fist my hands fine, I find it a dream to hold, better then the film counter parts.

It focuses fast, down loads fast, sets white balance fast and can fire off shots faster then you can press the shutter button.

It is the easiest camera to figure out how to use I have owned. In a half day I knew where everything was and could set it blind folded.

I know the MKII and what it offers and it is the Caddy of cameras but the 20d is its brother born second but giving it a good fight.

I have been next to a Canon 10D with a 80 to 400 Sigma is with my 20 D and a Canon 70 to 200 F4 and my bird shots were a little sharper, it seemed the combo focused faster but not having owned a 10 D I can't comment.

I have never loved a Camera the way I love this one, I can't put it down, I woulld rather be taking pictures with it then working.

I just did a portrait shoot for 20 people and it let me see each picture so fast and if I did not like the Picture, I deleted it and took another one, no closed eye or squint surprise. When I processed it I did not have to adjust anything, sharpness was right on , color was right on and shooting with my monolights and the pc connection was just great.

If you shoot allot of pictures professionaly and do field work then the MKII is the way to go, but if you shoot portraits and an occasional wedding the the 20 D will do the job. If you shoot once in a while then stay with the 10D its a super Camera. Me I went from and SLR to a G3 and missed the speed and feel of it, so when the 20 D came out and it had what I want in a Camera I went for it and if my wife finds out I may need to sell it for Alimony Ha Ha.

Why upgrade: Speed - focusing - Noise - on board speed light - used friendly menu's and controls - buffer download, and there is more but you cna read it in the manual when you buy yours.

I say do not hesitate, if your thinking then buy it, it is one awsome Camera.

[Aylwin]

There seems to be no shortage of praises for the 20D so I'll go the other way and list my complaints. Some are trivial, some are probably because I don't know how to use the camera properly. Also, bear in mind that I've had a 10D for more than a year and I've gotten pretty much used to it.

The first thing I noticed was the sound of the shutter. It has more of a popping sound rather than a click. I find it very strange. I much prefer the sound of my 10D. In fact, I haven't heard any other SLR (digital or otherwise) sound like this. I'm not sure I'll every get used to the sound.

Next thing I noticed was the flash. It seems to me that the shots are under-exposed. Now, I have FEC set at +1 stop by default.

The 20D is slightly smaller and noticeably lighter. This may be a good thing in the long run but the 10D feels more like it means business. I like the hefty and sturdy feel of the 10D. Also, because of the 20D's light body it feels front heavy when you have a reasonable heavy lens (like the 17-40L or 70-300 DO IS) attached. The weight balance just doesn't feel quite right.

Then there's the viewfinder. I'm still undecided on this one. I'll just say that it's different. Not necessarily better or worse than the 10D. Just different. :roll:

The grip on the 10D is better. Build-wise that is. And now I hear there's an issue with the battery when using the 20D grip.

One important issue for me is picture noise. Yes, everyone says how great it is at high ISO settings. But then what about ISO 100 and 200? To me, the 20D seems to have higher noise levels than the 10D at these lower ISO settings. I shoot more at ISO 100 and 200 compared to 400 and up so it's a bit of a problem. I miss the nice clean images of my 10D.

So why do I still have my 20D? Well, it just seems silly to keep the 10D and sell the 20D. Of course, there are still all those other benefits mentioned already. Besides, Lufthansa lost my 10D. Actually, they lost the bag I packed the 10D in. Oh well, at least they (or the insurance company) will pay for it. I just hope I get as much for it as I would if I had sold it. The 10D was on it's way to Finland where a 2nd hand 10D can still fetch a good price.

[WestFalcon]

I used my 20D outdoors with a 550ex flash yesterday. I was not impressed....the exposures were not very good. I never have liked the 550ex flashes and am hoping the 580ex is better. I have had some battery grip problems but since I installed 1.05, they seem to have gone away(I hope it's permanent). The extra 2 megapixels sure help when I enlarge(crop) things. So far, I will give the camera high ratings with only a few problems. The color comes out almost perfectly and I hardly need to make any adjustments.

[Jon]

I used my 20D outdoors with a 550ex flash yesterday. I was not impressed....the exposures were not very good.

Errr. . . could you maybe elaborate? Underexposed? Overexposed? Something else off?

[Mark Kemp]

I think there is a lot to be said for Flash Exposure Compensation.

Flash exposure is one of the more subjective areas of photography.

What one person thinks is too bright is too dark for another and its more complex still mixing flash and ambient light.

Canon (or any other manufacturer) can only make their best guess at an average value, but they give you an exposure compensation function if you don't agree with their guess.

Personally I don't take many flash shots, but when I do I almost always use the compensation to get the effect I want.

[evilenglishman]

don't yell at me but.....I just took delivery of a 20D :oops:

first impressions?
fast
too loud
slightly too small for my shovel hands.
came with firmware 1.0.5
Don't like the grainy viewfinder.
Got 1 dead pixel.
taken 50 or so quick photos and they all look murky and washed out. :cry:

After playing with a few settings it looks to be getting there. :wink:

[peter/c]

My Main disappointment were noise levels, I find them HIGHER than on the 300d, certainly at the lower iso's. 800 & 1600 may be a little better, but since I use these less often then it has to be a minus.Some things are obviously an improvement over the 300d, especially more control over AF and metering.
Peter.

[phili1]

Well I have not seen the 300D noise level but compared to my G3 there is none.

First if your hands are that big then there isn't a Camera out there thhats going to handle them. NOw I have held the 10 D the Mark II and I will admit they are bigger but very slightly, not allot and I have pretty big hands and find it very confrotable to hold, fits the hand like a glove.

Shutter noise. Well I guess I am that much older then the rest of you because I remenber teh Caddilac of /cameras my Hassleblad go clunk twice kind of lke ka clunk and my Nikon F1 could wake you up in the morning and every Camera MADE WITH A MECHANICAL SHUTTER made noise.

Lets take a poll of good and bad.

Bad- noise
Bad size.

Good - fast focus and no lag at all.
Good- Nine point auto focus
Good - Fast Write speed
Good - Better falsh expousures.
Good - Good Noise level reduction at higher ISO
Good - Seperate PC socket
Good - Multi controller.
Good - Easier controls and menu
Good - Instant start up.
Good - 8 mega pixels
Good - Sensor cleaning mode.
Good - White balance control
Good AI foucus (Single shot goes to servo)
Good - Depth of field preview button
Good ETTl II Falsh exposure ( Takes distence into account).
Good - Easier erase system.

Now I can go on for allot more paper here but hey 16 Goods to 2 bads suck don't they, lets throw the darn Camera in the Garbage.

Drisley is the only one who had anything good to say about an awsome Camera.

I am just going to let you ney saayers do your thing and I am going to enjoy shots I got yesterday brighten up my day. Byeee

[peter/c]

Well I have not seen the 300D noise level but compared to my G3 there is none.



Drisley is the only one who had anything good to say about an awsome Camera.

I am just going to let you ney saayers do your thing and I am going to enjoy shots I got yesterday brighten up my day. Byeee


Well I DID have 300d so I know what I am talking about and I DID have good things to add as did many other people besides Drisley. Some people just hate to hear criticism of their new toy.

[Reminisce]

MY TURN MY TURN!
So I just got mine today, and I'll try to add as little repetitiveness as possible.

Likes:
The feel of the grip, feels more rugged compared to my former 300D
The smoothness of the popup flash
The turn dial, very nice coming from the 4 buttons on the DR
Image processing, the playback shows the image before I can even look at the screen.

Things I need to get used to:
The position of the power switch. I have to say on the DR it was in a very comfortable position, I never had to change my grip on the camera.
Position of the mode dial, same as above.
LCD screen on top. This is something nice and new, im just not used to it.
Black! Yes its a sexier color, im just so used to the shiny silver.
Joystick, never had this, still learning to use it more.
Shutter sound, its growing on me.

Dislikes:
The neckstrap, the pure black and smooth one with my DR was more professional looking, this one screams "I have something around my neck, come look!", minor.
Delete button, awkward position and hard to press with my basketball fingers.

And thats about all. So far im falling in love fast with this camera.

[emax]

Wonderful camera!

1. fast
2. VERY fast
3. loud shutter
4. stunning metering abilities, even in very dark conditions
5. very easy to use software
6. very ergonomic and logical user-interface (regarding buttons and handling). Its a Canon!
7. no need for an extra flash - for me, the built-in flash is sufficient
8. excellent results
9. body feels good - the camera feels compact, valuable an robust.
10. very low power-consumption. Battery-life is seemingly very long. And this issue was one of my biggest concerns: the hatefull energy-problem.
11. no need for a battery-grip (for me). I'll just keep a second battery in my trouser pocket - which will suffice for DAYS!

Wishes:

1. bigger monitor
2. bigger font/adjustable fontsize
3. built in exposure timer (this is only a software issue, why doeas canon provide this only with extra accessory?)
4. image-review with "overlaid" histogram. The image provided with the current histogram-view is too small - it's not easy to locate burned-out areas. I'd like a full-sized picture and a transparent full-sized histogram overlaid. This should be customizable:
a) old design
b) full-sized image & overlaid histogram
c) full-sized-image & switchable overlaid histogram (use SET-button to toggle)
d) full-sized image and overlaid small histogram in the upper-left corner (or sth. similar)

All in all the eos 20D is a direct hit! I love it, and didnt go even a step without it in last three days (yes, i even kept it my bedroom at night :D :D :D )

emax

[phili1]

Yep Great Camera.
Emax if your talking about the timeN, they have a seperate one that I think you can dial your time in. TC

[emax]

@phili1

My complaint is thats its not part of the firmware. I'm a software-engineer - therefore i wonder why such a simple function isn't simply implemented in the firmware.

Anyway - its a "need it once any two years" - function. The camera is nevertheless an outstanding product!

emax

PS: perhaps there will sometime exist a firmware-hack which covers such a function ... :wink:

[G.O'Reilly]

I just bought the EOS20D this past week.I am from the "old school" so it will take
some time for me to get used to.
But all the remarks in this forum are excellent and will help a lot
Regards
George

[Caveman2]

Hello gang,

If you are looking for a fresh, first impression from someone who has just started digital, here's one!

This is my second first post to the Canon user's group.:o I put the first one in the wrong thread. My appologies to the forum.:o

I've been a film shooter since '73 and have put off digital photography until mid March (05) and honestly, am very glad I did. So I have nothing in the digital realms to compare to except my wire's Easy Share and that's not a fair comparison. I do semi-pro stuff, weddings, groups, and recently got into stage photography at a local Paramount Theater. Otherwise, I love scenery, close up, landscape, nature type stuff. Use Minolta 35's (MD stuff) and medium format and 4x5 once in a great while.

So you see, Canon EOS digital is as different and new as can be to me, and I gotta say, I love it!

Got my 20D with the battery grip, 28-80 & 70-300mm Sigma lenses. Just within three weeks.

Here's my first impressions and practical review:

The good stuff:
For stage shooting of music performers and plays, I can't imagine anything better than the 20D. This camera goes where no film could go before. Very good to fantastic results and I'm obviously still on a big, steep learning curve with it all. Can't believe the low noise at ISO 1,600 and H (3,200) (I've seen other photos to compare taken at 400) and I can hand hold at 300mm in most stage lighting. :) Love the ability to do instant reviews and delete on the spot. (Hey folks, I'm brand new to digital, what can I say?)

Still learning the metering technique without a spot meter. The staff cringes when local performers ask if they can have someone take photos of them. NO FLASH! They can't believe the results I get with no flash! (Already) Partial metering seems to be doing it, after getting used to it. I can see a big improvement after just two sessions in exposure improvement. Climbing that curve!:) The shutter is plenty quiet- not a complaint one (believe me- this is important) Now the theater staff has me take photos for the theatre needs and supplying the local performers with photos for their use. It's great to have a tool that is unobtrusive and get's the job done in a hard setting!:D:D

Using the multi frame feature while performers strut their stuff makes for fantastic sequencial reviews. I have a 1 Gig CF card and it writes plenty fast enough for me and it's not a high end card at that. The big buffer makes this thing just like shooting a 35mm film camera for my use so far, as I usually much perfer single frame shooting. It's a fast camera made for shooters and not waiters! Yes, I have waited for the buffer to clear, but my needs aren't as demanding in this area. I'm well pleased with it.

Getting up the learning curve to the point of being able to use the camera and get decent results was not near as frightening as I had feared. This is a really friendly camera (although it may look intimidating to an old film shooter like me) and the instruction book (and cheat sheet) is very well written and concise. :D

The focus is very fast and accurate even in low light- a huge plus for me.:D I do get soft images sometimes, but I've mainly used one touch focusing. Haven't needed manual focus yet (thought I would use it often) but it's nice to have!:)

Close ups of wildflowers is a joy! As clean of an image as ISO 800 gets, you can usually stop the wind and get great results.

Stuff I'd like somehow different:
Wish there was a spot meter, but learning to use the partial metering seemes to be doing the trick.
Can't see that LCD image outside- (in bright light) period. Have to take something to drape over my head to review shots.
Not saying that any of this is bad.

Unfortunately, due to family illnesses, that's all I have gotten to use this camera at this point. If I had to give it a raiting 1-10, I'd give it a 9 where I am with it so far.

Sorry, I get kind of windy sometimes.:o I'm glad to have this forum to refer to for help. I've read several threads and FAQ's since last night and all this morning. Great place and I'm glad to see it. Feel sort of at home already.

[JATPhotos]

I shot dance competition this past weekend and used both my 10D and 20D. What a difference!
The 20 is faster in every respect, the buffer never filled up once and I was shooting fast. I was using 1 gig Sandic II cards and it made a difference in the 20 but not on the 10.
The only thing is that the 20D is much noiser but I can live with that. it did lock up once towards the end and I had to remove the battery grip but that is a different issue. I did take over 1400 photos without a problem.

[Pelao]

Caveman2
Thanks for posting - information that is helpful to me on choosing an upgrade path.

JATPhotos - what lens(es) did you use for the dance competition?

[thomasrhee]

My observations on the 20D compared to my previous 10D and my wife's Rebel XT:

20D pros:
- Auto focus is a step up from the 10D in terms of speed and accuracy
- Slightly longer battery life
- Faster shooting
- Less noise at higher ISO vs 10D
- Perfect size for my hands, slightly smaller and lighter vs 10D
- Higher magnification viewfinder vs Rebel XT
- Much heavier vs Rebel XT (I may be one of the few who prefers the lightweight of the Rebel XT)
- Built in flash raises higher vs 10D
- Nicer finish/materials vs Rebel XT
- Great build quality for the price although the CF card door could have a nicer fit
- Better user interface vs Rebel XT
- Higher upload speeds with USB 2.0 vs 10D

20D cons:
- Viewfinder is darker and grainier vs 10D
- Minor rattle from the built in flash
- Hate the rubber covers on the side (Panasonic Lumix FZ20 gets this right in my book with a spring loaded door, easier/faster access)

Overall, image quality is nearly identical with all three of these cameras. With the 20D vs Rebel XT, you're paying more only for the better user interface and nicer finish/materials. Having said that, the Rebel XT, even though it's made of plastic, exudes a solid build quality. I'm actually tempted to buy another XT as a backup to my 20D especially since I can pick one up for less than $800 right now.

[mr.photoguy]

My Review of the 20D.

Firstly, from unpacking the camera for the first time you notice the well laid out buttons on the rear of the camera. You also take note of the sturdy looking on/off button on the back, flipping this to on will quickly power up the camera, and in less than a second you are ready to shoot.

Secondly, the grip although made of a plastic material is very comfortable, and pleasing to hold. However, you should make sure to trim your nails as not to scratch up the portion of plastic next to the lens mount. The control knob on the top left which controls your features is well placed, also to the shutter button side there is the balanced lcd display. Everything you need to find can be found here, with also a very convienent light button.

Thirdly, the high iso performance, and the image quality. The high iso performance on this camera is a definet plus. Assuming that you overexpose, by 1/3rd or 1 stop, depending on situation, you can really walk away with some great images. Contrary to this, I once underexposed majorly in the monkey house, at the new york bronx zoo, using iso3200 with a 70-200 f4. Due to shooting in raw, I was able to save & produce this shot, with some minor noise reduction...sample image (http://www.pbase.com/brucescott/image/40001753).
The image quality is superb, although it is dependent on the lens used, with me using the 70-200f4 (for example), I have gotten some great images.

Fourth, price of the 20D is very reasonable. With other prosumer cameras costing between 400-1000 dollars, but not having the same image quality, nor the same amount of controls, the 20D is every bit worth it's price tag of circa 1300 dollars. The image quality, and level of controls offered in this camera are great. You get great clean images, and a camera that has the ability to challenge your photography skills in many aspects.

Overall, I am satisified with the 20D. The camera offers enough options to keep me experimenting, and learning something new. I am able to work in many different light conditions, with EF, or EFS lens' , and produce results. This is a camera that, in my opinion, won't disappoint its user.

Thanks for Reading.
Bruce
aka mr.photoguy, and ehh you with the camera.

[JATPhotos]

Sorry I was out of town on another competition. I used my Canon 70-200 2.8 IS with both cameras. The 20D has the edge hands down. Last year I shoot with the 10D and a Canon 75-300 IS and I thought it was OK but nothing compared to this year, if I missed a shot it was because I blinked.

[Mthorpe_Davies]

Love the camera, I used it almost religiously with a 24-70 2.8, I'm very happy with my purchase. It's a big leap forward for the Eos 33 film body I was using before. I'm just a tad dissappointed with the BGE2 (I have somewhat large hands so this is necessary) it's flimsy, and creaks, canon should have had a look at the one pentax designed for the ist D, it's a nice piece of design and works very well.

[pacekoenig]

hey yáll, i have a similar Q posted in another forum. im sort of a newbie looking to make a long-term investment in a camera and lenses, and would appreciate any advice you have on the matter.

question about the 20d and appropriate lenses to use with it:

whats the word on the canon 24-70 2.8 and the 20d?
i thnk the 24-70 would be a great lense to start off with, but if it is problematic, what 2.8 zooms can i use onthe 20d without problems?

thanks so much for all your help!

[Mark_Cohran]

hey yáll, i have a similar Q posted in another forum. im sort of a newbie looking to make a long-term investment in a camera and lenses, and would appreciate any advice you have on the matter.

question about the 20d and appropriate lenses to use with it:

whats the word on the canon 24-70 2.8 and the 20d?
i thnk the 24-70 would be a great lense to start off with, but if it is problematic, what 2.8 zooms can i use onthe 20d without problems?

thanks so much for all your help!

I'm not sure what your question really is. The 24-70 f2.8L is a great lens and will work fine on your 20D. All f2.8 EF lenses will work on the 20D, as well as f4's, f3.5 - 4.5 zooms, and even 1.8's, 2's and 1.4's. Why would you think it's problematic?

Mark