Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD: The On-Going Battle

[Lord_Malone]

If there can be only one, who will win the high definition format war and why?

[cfcRebel]

If there can only be one, might as well choose the one offers more space, i.e. Blu-ray. :)

[Michael_Lambert]

I agree- if you are going to chose one they both provide the same quality, why not pick the one that has the greater room for more goodies needing more space.

[cosworth]

I finally got off the fence and went HD-DVD. $180 at Costcot with 5 free movies. I have about 15 movies now. Blade Runner: Final Cut was simply amazing.

Former Beta owner here. I got ****ing burned on that fiasco. I bought a mini disk. Got ****ing burned on that too. Memory stick? Name a pro level DSLR made that accepts Memory stick?


Screw Sony. They burned me too many times.

FYI - for the record I manually put in the **** ;) Space is irrelevant. Who's going to be burning to HD-DVD with optical drives so cheap? Not me.

[Dan-o]

I don't think either will win. I think this is different from the VHS vs. Betamax as companies are already starting to make duel players. I think we will just have systems that will play both and it won't really matter witch one you buy.

[Lord_Malone]

I finally got off the fence and went HD-DVD. $180 at Costcot with 5 free movies. I have about 15 movies now. Blade Runner: Final Cut was simply amazing.

Former Beta owner here. I got ****ing burned on that fiasco. I bought a mini disk. Got ****ing burned on that too. Memory stick? Name a pro level DSLR made that accepts Memory stick?


Screw Sony. They burned me too many times.

FYI - for the record I manually put in the **** ;) Space is irrelevant. Who's going to be burning to HD-DVD with optical drives so cheap? Not me.

I agree that Sony does seem to have a track record for introducing great formats that don't quite catch on.

Yeah, I've been straddling the fence with Sony Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 for a while now and finally decided to go ahead and get the 40gb PS3 first. Although it's more than likely that I'll end up with both units, like I did when I got the PS2 and original Xbox. Both are great systems and I'll keep both of them for nostalgia's sake, but there is some serious competition for the next dominating DVD format. Blu-Ray intrigues me. I'm always blown away when I walk into any electronics store and they've got Pirates playing on a display Blu-Ray system. Despite what this poll is showing so far, right now it seems that Sony's Blu-Ray format has the edge being backed by more big major league powerhouse studios and selling more Blu-Ray discs as opposed to more HD DVD players being sold, but not as many HD DVDs (as far as I know). It'll be interesting to see how things turn out.

[Lord_Malone]

I don't think either will win. I think this is different from the VHS vs. Betamax as companies are already starting to make duel players. I think we will just have systems that will play both and it won't really matter witch one you buy.

That's also true. We may be blessed with having the option to always being able choose from either format in the long run. Both sides win. Everybody's happy.

[nikonthree]

Former Beta owner here. I got ****ing burned on that fiasco. I bought a mini disk. Got ****ing burned on that too. Memory stick? Name a pro level DSLR made that accepts Memory stick?


Screw Sony. They burned me too many times.

This is the fate of to many that have back Sony and their "emerging technologies".

I personally went HD-DVD because of:
1) price (HD-DVD players are much less expensive right now than Bluray)
and
2) the fact that HD-DVD is from Toshiba.. one the on the chief innovators of the DVD spec as we know it today (yes they beat out Sony before in the format war for DVD specification) ;)

So either way if Bluray wins out I am not out as much money as I would be if I purchased a Bluray player.

And don't let those overblown numbers of Bluray users out there get to you, those numbers include the players which are equipped in the successful PS3.

[nikonthree]

BTW.. funny article on this subject, which I stumbled upon earlier...

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/web20/61003.html

Either way it will be interesting come the 2008 CES show (http://www.cesweb.org/default.asp) next week! :D

[coralnutz]

No adult movies on Blue-Ray. I'm getting hd-dvd. :D

[Lord_Malone]

No adult movies on Blue-Ray. I'm getting hd-dvd. :D

I'm not so sure...

The porn industry is backing the Blu-Ray technology.

Though I can't remember exactly, I read this somewhere as well. And we all know sex sells...

Debbie Does Dallas now in High Def!

[Lord_Malone]

Hmmm...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070112-8602.html

But then there are adult titles available in Blu-Ray...

Warning: Must be 18 years or older to view content

http://www.climaxflix.com/cart.php?type=prod&prod=24481

[cosworth]

My PVR delivers a LOT of hi-def content. The ONLY movie I cannot get on HD-DVD that matters to me is Casino Royale. But it's on my PRV in hi-def.

done.

[Lord_Malone]

Very interesting Cnet video. Looks like HD DVD is more of a friend of porn...

http://www.cnettv.com/9742-1_53-25822.html

...and could well be the ultimate deciding factor.

[Lord_Malone]

My PVR delivers a LOT of hi-def content. The ONLY movie I cannot get on HD-DVD that matters to me is Casino Royale. But it's on my PRV in hi-def.

done.

I'm a huge fan of Bladerunner and I'm happy I can get it in either format. I'm a little upset that Transformers is not available on Blu-Ray though.

[deadpass]

the adult industry has always been the driving force behind entertainment technology, but with them backing both formats my guess is that high def dvds won't last very long and will be replaced soon by something else that's completely new, not just a revamped old techonology.

[davidfig]

Maybe Microsoft has enough money to force HD-DVD down our throats. Like the, what was it $100million, for Transformers. Only on HD.

[cosworth]

Maybe Microsoft has enough money to force HD-DVD down our throats. Like the, what was it $100million, for Transformers. Only on HD.


You do realize that Sony is a movie studio as well right? Naw, they aren't forcing anything on you at all are they.

Imagine if Apple bought Adobe and then made all new versions of CS4 Apple only. Think you'd like that?

[Citizensmith]

HD DVD - $200 with 10 free movies from Amazon. Picked up a few more since then, including Transformers, Planet Earth, and Blade Runner (in the dogs bollocks boxed set with all the extras). :)

Seeing as both HD and BluRay do such a good job upsampling I won't be worried about replacing old movies, or that bothered if something comes out only in Bluray.

I'm working on the theory it'll be a draw. Multiformat players are out there and will just get cheaper and more common. If not though, my money is on HD, based just on a dislike of Sony.

[neil_r]

Imagine if Apple bought Adobe and then made all new versions of CS4 Apple only. Think you'd like that?

LOL it would work for me :-)

[SoaringUSAEagle]

Very interesting that you started this LM. I was about to do it last week when I bought my TV and PS3. I am choosing blu ray at the moment.

[Citizensmith]

Maybe Microsoft has enough money to force HD-DVD down our throats. Like the, what was it $100million, for Transformers. Only on HD.

Big movies cost lots, $100mil is no surprise. Why is that relevant to Transformers being HD only? How come you aren't complaining about the various Bluray only movies?

And why the Microsoft connection? Sure they are HD backers, but what does that have to do with Transformers specifically?

[davidfig]

Can someone tell me if you hd-dvd has ethernet. The spec says they it has to have it. I'm thinking big brother here.

[davidfig]

Big movies cost lots, $100mil is no surprise. Why is that relevant to Transformers being HD only? How come you aren't complaining about the various Bluray only movies?

And why the Microsoft connection? Sure they are HD backers, but what does that have to do with Transformers specifically?

Read an online article last week, the director was complaining that it did not go on both. Since Microsoft paid to get it on HD only.

[lakiluno]

I dislike sony for a number of reasons, and so I will verbally back HD-DVD.

However, I'm not paying for either :D

[cosworth]

It has an ethernet port for downloading firmware. Mine is not connected. Optical out, hdmi etc. I have yet to try playing a CD-r MP3 on it but I don't think it does that.

[DC9]

We have hundreds of dollars invested in DVD. I’ll sit on the fence until this Beta vs. VHS Rumble Part Duex comes out with a clear winner. I’m not going to replace perfectly good DVDs with the HD equivalent just to have a closet full of obsolete HD disk in several years. This isn’t as major a jump in technology as it was to go from LP records to CDs or to go from tapes to DVDs. I can wait with my wallet safely tucked away for a few more years.

[davidfig]

It has an ethernet port for downloading firmware. Mine is not connected. Optical out, hdmi etc. I have yet to try playing a CD-r MP3 on it but I don't think it does that.

According to amazons comparisons, the HD ethernet is for firmware upgrades and content delivery.

[lakiluno]

Can someone tell me if you hd-dvd has ethernet. The spec says they it has to have it. I'm thinking big brother here.

Now you're just being a fanboy. HD-DVD players have Ethernet to allow online content. You don't *have* to plug them in.

[Lord_Malone]

Read an online article last week, the director was complaining that it did not go on both. Since Microsoft paid to get it on HD only.

Well if that isn't a punch in the nuts...

Oh well. The movie looks good on regular DVD too.

[cosworth]

The Bond franchise isn't impressed it went out on Blu-Ray exclusively either. Lost sales are lost sales.

[Citizensmith]

Can someone tell me if you hd-dvd has ethernet. The spec says they it has to have it. I'm thinking big brother here.

They all do, part of the HD specs, and something missing from early BluRay specs and hence the early players. It allows easy updates and access to additional content. Pretty neat.

Owners of version 1.0 blue rays are having to jump through hoops if they want to watch anything like Pirates, as 1.0 specs don't support the BluRay+ copy protection that Sony rolled out. At least HD DVD is a finalized spec.

[davidfig]

Well if that isn't a punch in the nuts...

Oh well. The movie looks good on regular DVD too.

I agree. Technically Blu-ray is better. But so was Beta-Max.

So like a co-worker says, it will go the way of the porn industry. Which to this point is going HD, because of lower cost to transform a automated line.

BTW - Lm - I just bought Transformers on DVD. which is all I have at this point. Now its time for a HiDef TV and unconverter. ;)

[cosworth]

Sony and DRM (rootkit anyone?), Sony and un-updateable firmware. You can see where thread like this can head.

[Citizensmith]

Read an online article last week, the director was complaining that it did not go on both. Since Microsoft paid to get it on HD only.

Seems like an odd thing for MS to be doing. Any idea what the source was?

[neil_r]

I think that the whole debate will overtaken by technology. iTunes is killing the music CD market and I am sure that the same will happen with movies. My 20MB broadband pipe can D/L an HD movie in just over an hour and appleTV plays it in HD. With Broad Band / DSL speeds increasing and with the falling price in storage media I am sure that this will be the way of the future. Also I was talking with some of the Techy geeks at work who tell me that there is a huge amount of interest in very high capacity HD cards as these will be a very cost effective way of distributing movies and the film companies will be able to incorporate anti copying technology.

[joove]

I went with HD-DVD because I hated the blu-ray attitude. Players that are so much more expensive, with unfinished and incomplete specs. They might have the potential when they get their implementation together but for now I consider it overpriced inferior product with superior marketing.

Even now, reportedly, the Harry Potter movies have a bigger list of interactive features on HD-DVD than on Blu-Ray. Dunno how many people actually use those features.

The only blu-ray thing I wish HD-DVD had is the scratch-proof layer. There is some rumor of some other HD-DVD only studio declaring their new found love for Blu-Ray and finally killing HD-DVD once and for all. I am hoping it is the other way around but I really wouldn't be hurt much. They are in the business of making money and money only and I just want them to finish their fight and put and end to this. Will be interesting to see the final stand-alone player sales figures this CES.

-vamsi

[cosworth]

I agree. Technically Blu-ray is better.

Both are in 1080p and dolby digital 5.1. HD-DVD has a higher framerate. Really, what one is better then?

The only real disc difference is in storage capacity. And we all know that blu-ray's capacity has already been superceded. So why not go with the player that has a standardized, backwards compatible format delivery? HD-DVD.

Plus Toshiba isn't a movie studio that wants to control me. The HD-DVD consortium is pretty fair.

[Citizensmith]

Now its time for a HiDef TV and unconverter. ;)

That's actually why I went HD, I was planning on waiting originally. Thing is if you are going to sink $75+ on a decent 1080i upconverter, spending $200 on an HD DVD player that also nets you 5 to 10 HD movies (depending on which deals you get) isn't that big a hit.

[Lord_Malone]

I think that the whole debate will overtaken by technology. iTunes is killing the music CD market and I am sure that the same will happen with movies. My 20MB broadband pipe can D/L an HD movie in just over an hour and appleTV plays it in HD. With Broad Band / DSL speeds increasing and with the falling price in storage media I am sure that this will be the way of the future. Also I was talking with some of the Techy geeks at work who tell me that there is a huge amount of interest in very high capacity HD cards as these will be a very cost effective way of distributing movies and the film companies will be able to incorporate anti copying technology.

You mean no more pirated bootlegs of movies weeks before they're released? :lol:

[cosworth]

The only blu-ray thing I wish HD-DVD had is the scratch-proof layer. There is some rumor of some other HD-DVD only studio declaring their new found love for Blu-Ray and finally killing HD-DVD once and for all. I am hoping it is the other way around but I really wouldn't be hurt much. They are in the business of making money and money only and I just want them to finish their fight and put and end to this. Will be interesting to see the final stand-alone player sales figures this CES.

-vamsi


Paramount is HD-DVD exclusive and announced that recently.

Quite the opposite. The scratch proof layer isn't scratch proof. Scratch resistant. Both discs have it with Blu-Ray being the weaker coating. "Lacquer Layer".

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/415/2

[neil_r]

You mean no more pirated bootlegs of movies weeks before they're released? :lol:

No I really am a member of the The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, and this is a legitimate preview copy :o:o

[davidfig]

That's actually why I went HD, I was planning on waiting originally. Thing is if you are going to sink $75+ on a decent 1080i upconverter, spending $200 on an HD DVD player that also nets you 5 to 10 HD movies (depending on which deals you get) isn't that big a hit.

Upconvert DVD is $40 at walmart

[Citizensmith]

I think that the whole debate will overtaken by technology. iTunes is killing the music CD market and I am sure that the same will happen with movies.

there is a huge amount of interest in very high capacity HD cards as these will be a very cost effective way of distributing movies and the film companies will be able to incorporate anti copying technology.

Agreed, with the exception of the psychological desire to hold a physical product in your hands. :) Now that all the music houses (with the exception of Sony - no surprise) have gone DRM free, it'll be interesting to see what that does to itunes. Why pay for the premium itunes stuff when everyone else has it for standard. Why deal with fairplay and ipods when you can throw an MP3 on a cheaper, better player from someone else? itunes will have to make some changes to remain competitive in the long run.

As for copy protection, BluRay+ took about 2 weeks to break. Why do they think anything is ever going to give them protection that actually works. Just because its on a flash card and not a disc, it'll still get opened.

[Citizensmith]

Upconvert DVD is $40 at walmart

But you note my use of the word decent. If you want something that will give a smooth, ghost free 1080i upconvert you'll be spending around $100.

If you would be happy with a $40 walmart player then HD or Bluray is a complete waste of your money.

[davidfig]

Here ya go citizensmith

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/08/21/michael-bay-responds-to-paramounts-abandonment-of-blu-ray-no/

[Citizensmith]

You mean no more pirated bootlegs of movies weeks before they're released? :lol:

You are better connected than me. I have to wait until a few days before release. :)

[davidfig]

If you would be happy with a $40 walmart player then HD or Bluray is a complete waste of your money.

Its only a stop gap waiting for more time to go by in this war.

[cosworth]

Wal-Mart just killed their online movie downloads. Giving up or replacing?

[davidfig]

For those who have HD-DVD. Is it 1080p. Seems like they are all 1080i.

Blu-Ray is 1080p all around.

[cosworth]

For those who have HD-DVD. Is it 1080p. Seems like they are all 1080i.

Blu-Ray is 1080p all around.

HD-DVDs are 1080p. Period.


HD-DVD players give you the option of buying a 1080i player (the cheaper HD-A3 currently) or a 1080p player (HDA30). If your TV that you JUST bought is 1080i, why buy the 1080p player and waste your money?

Sony only gives you the 1080p player option.

[davidfig]

HD-DVDs are 1080p. Period.
HD-DVD players give you the option of buying a 1080i player (the cheaper HD-A3 currently) or a 1080p player (HDA30). If your TV that you JUST bought is 1080i, why buy the 1080p player and waste your money?

Sony only gives you the 1080p player option.

Another way to look at it is that comparing 1080p player prices to 1080i players is a little off. I like the way you put it. get the cheaper player since you have the 1080i TV. But if I get a 1080p TV, then I will have to get the 1080p player. Maybe no savings. It doesn't matter that much, I guess.

[nikonthree]

The war is set to be won/ or extended on January 7 at the CES Show in Vegas.

Warner Brothers (WB) is the only studio that currently releases their movies on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. Rumor has it they will declare a sole proprietor at the show.

If they did this, it would give Blu-Ray 70% of the studios, which could lead to the end of this format war. If they go HD-DVD, however, it would bring the split down to about 50/50.

If rumors are true we should find out next week. ;)

[cosworth]

Consider though that most humans can't see the difference and that the 1080i (720p) broadcast standard is here for a loooong time.

My tv, cablevision and HD-DVD player are all 1080i. Going home to watch Kubrick in hi-def tonight. Stoked.

[nikonthree]

Consider though that most humans can't see the difference and that the 1080i (720p) broadcast standard is here for a loooong time.
VERY VERY true!


My tv, cablevision and HD-DVD player are all 1080i. Going home to watch Kubrick in hi-def tonight. Stoked.
OOOO.. A Clockwork Orange?? Very Cool!

[cosworth]

I watched A.C.O. a couple nights ago. Tonight it's 2001 a Space Odyssey.

[nikonthree]

Good Ol' "H.A.L." ... Thats a good flick too :D

[davidfig]

Consider though that most humans can't see the difference and that the 1080i (720p) broadcast standard is here for a loooong time.

Unfortunately, I'm not most humans. I can see the rainbow on my DLP projector. I can see the difference of 768 vs 1080 and also 1080i vs 1080p. But I'm a weird geek type.

My family cannot tell the difference, so I don't tell them how I can see it.

I don't care how wins, I just don't want to have to choose. Since it means that whatever I choose has a 50% chance of loosing.

[coralnutz]

In the end adult movies will be on both. Back when blu-ray came out that was sony's stance is that they would do whatever they could to keep adult movies off of bluray. I'm sure they aren't going to be sucessful considering the adult business all together probably has more pull than sony over all.

I was mostly just being a smarty pants, I can't even afford a canon rebel yet let alone hd tv and those toys. :(

[timbernet]

I thought there was talk about a dual-format player... one that could read BluRay AND HD-DVD...

[cosworth]

They exist. You can buy one today.

[Bob_A]

Blu-Ray will go the way of Betamax. I hope.

[MDJAK]

I finally got off the fence and went HD-DVD. $180 at Costcot with 5 free movies. I have about 15 movies now. Blade Runner: Final Cut was simply amazing.

Former Beta owner here. I got ****ing burned on that fiasco. I bought a mini disk. Got ****ing burned on that too. Memory stick? Name a pro level DSLR made that accepts Memory stick?


Screw Sony. They burned me too many times.

FYI - for the record I manually put in the **** ;) Space is irrelevant. Who's going to be burning to HD-DVD with optical drives so cheap? Not me.

I knew I liked you, Cos. I too am a former betamax owner. It was far superior to VHS, but poorly marketed and too expensive which was its death knell. They had realtime tape counters years before VHS did.

I agree. Technically Blu-ray is better. But so was Beta-Max.

So like a co-worker says, it will go the way of the porn industry. Which to this point is going HD, because of lower cost to transform a automated line.

BTW - Lm - I just bought Transformers on DVD. which is all I have at this point. Now its time for a HiDef TV and unconverter. ;)

For those who have HD-DVD. Is it 1080p. Seems like they are all 1080i.

Blu-Ray is 1080p all around.

Unless one has the latest flat screen or projector, 1080p is not available, and even if you do, a lot of sets will not accept the 1080p signal, especially if its 24fps. 1080i and 1080p are almost impossible to tell apart.

I thought there was talk about a dual-format player... one that could read BluRay AND HD-DVD...

They exist. You can buy one today.

Indeed they do, but only about two, maybe three players, they are clunky in operation, meaning slow, and still quite expensive.

I have a Panasonic 58 inch plasma, and not the one they sell in Costco, but the top model panasonic makes. I also have a rather good 5.1 sound system. I would like to get either blu-ray or hd-dvd, but will definitely NOT go for one over the other. I will wait until the combo players arrive that encompass the best of both formats and are reasonably priced.

A ps3, malone? You a baby game player? :lol:
me

[cosworth]

Yes, many don't know that a lot of the hi def players out there are mini form factor PCs that need to boot their embedded OS and spin up the drive. Boot times for the dual players is ghastly.

[Stefan A]

I bought the xbox 360 hd dvd player.

Stefan

[FZ1dave]

A nice discussion of the subject on the FZ1 board, started back in 2006.

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47162

Personally I'm hoping for HD-DVD.

Sony lost me after the rootkit fiasco.

[In2Photos]

Luckily I don't think this war will go the same as DVD-Audio/SACD and both formats eventually go away for the most part. One, or both, will stay. Also luckily for me I am still using my 10 year Sony TV with my 5 year old Denon DVD-Video/DVD-Audio/SACD player. Maybe one day I can get some new stuff. ;)

[Lord_Malone]

best of both formats and are reasonably priced.

A ps3, malone? You a baby game player? :lol:
me

I love baby games!!

I just started Call of Duty 4 last night. It's a flippin' incredible game. I'm getting an Xbox 360 as well since I enjoy titles for both platforms. No compelling reason for me to jump on the Wii bandwagon just yet. I've still got PS2 and Xbox games still in shrink wrap! And PS One games I have yet to finish! So much to do, so little time...

[cfcRebel]

I love baby games!!

I just started Call of Duty 4 last night. It's a flippin' incredible game. ....Unless you already have Warhawk, I enjoy Blazing Angels 2 a lot. Even the demo offers online multiplayer feature but demo is 720p.

[Hattrik21]

I thought there was talk about a dual-format player... one that could read BluRay AND HD-DVD...

There is. The Samsung BD-UP5000

[neil85]

Big movies cost lots, $100mil is no surprise. Why is that relevant to Transformers being HD only? How come you aren't complaining about the various Bluray only movies?

And why the Microsoft connection? Sure they are HD backers, but what does that have to do with Transformers specifically?

havent read all the replies yet but transformers was originally set to be Blu-ray ... they were then persuaded to go to HD-DVD instead ... with that $100m

[neil85]

isnt that what won the VHS vs. BETA-MAX back in the day? the porn industry chose one side?

I agree. Technically Blu-ray is better. But so was Beta-Max.

So like a co-worker says, it will go the way of the porn industry. Which to this point is going HD, because of lower cost to transform a automated line.

BTW - Lm - I just bought Transformers on DVD. which is all I have at this point. Now its time for a HiDef TV and unconverter. ;)

[Nightstalker]

I want HD-DVD to win out but as in the UK Blockbuster is doing Blu-Ray only I feel that HD-DVD is going to struggle.

Betamax wasn't beaten by VHS for technology reasons but for marketing reasons. I remember that back in the early days of tape rental the VHS section was typically 10x the size of the Betamax section.

If having the best technology was the deciding factor the Philips V2000 system would probably have won out.

[CyberDyneSystems]

None of the above.

Cost of the recorders is insane right now and will be for a while.

They may never get it down to one (ala DVD+r vs. DVD-R)

in any case I will wait until the choice is no longer a factor as it is now with DVD+/-R

Or until a higher capacity format is available to blow them both out of the water

[cosworth]

Beta was killed because of recording time.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Betamax wasn't beaten by VHS for technology reasons but for marketing reasons. ...

Well not even marketing reasons really, it was more Sony being selfish and rather than providing a cost effective alternative insisted on it being cost prohibitive for others to adopt. No one would pay the piper to license the format, and why would they when the VHS alternative was there.

[cosworth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betamax

Just because there was a clear winner in a previous format war does not mean there will be one again.

[CyberDyneSystems]

...luckily for me I am still using my 10 year Sony TV with my 5 year old Denon DVD-Video/DVD-Audio/SACD player. Maybe one day I can get some new stuff. ;)

How cutting edge!

I'm using a circa 1973 Pioneer SA-9100
http://www.classic-audio.com/pioneer/pics/sa9100.jpg

Not the hardest hitting Amp rated at only 65 watts continuous, (yes and that's into TWO count them TWO channels ! :lol: ) but it's beefy hardware give it massive overhead when needed for the transients, and well, it's simply got the broadest frequency range of any Amp i've ever heard in the sub multi thousand category! (7 to 80,000 Hz that's right, you read that correctly, and this is not a typical CDS mis type :) 7 to 80,000 Hz!!! )

Hooked up is an old CD player and a yes, a turntable :)

[Citizensmith]

The porn industry will be less of a player this time. They are getting the hurt on from internet downloads (cough, youporn, cough) so are moving online in increasingly large ways. When video arrived it gave folks who wanted to get their porn on a way to do it in the privacy of their own home, rather than at a cinema. That was a huge deal. With the HD stuff there isn't that demand. You don't even need to pay half the time, let alone go to a shop. HD porn provides nothing new. Well, nothing anyone really wants anyway. Maybe too much detail. :)

[neil_r]

(7 to 80,000 Hz that's right, you read that correctly, and this is not a typical CDS mis type :) 7 to 80,000 Hz!!! )

temp change of subject sorry :o I am 52 years old, how many of the above do you think I could hear

[rhys]

blu-ray or hd-dvd? I don't know. I'm still not up to dual layer DVD yet.

When my new laptop comes with blu-ray or hd-dvd built-in is when I'll go that route. At the moment I'm looking at large capacity USB memory sticks for long-term storage with great interest!

[rhys]

The porn industry will be less of a player this time. They are getting the hurt on from internet downloads (cough, youporn, cough) so are moving online in increasingly large ways. When video arrived it gave folks who wanted to get their porn on a way to do it in the privacy of their own home, rather than at a cinema. That was a huge deal. With the HD stuff there isn't that demand. You don't even need to pay half the time, let alone go to a shop. HD porn provides nothing new. Well, nothing anyone really wants anyway. Maybe too much detail. :)

I can well imagine more porn will be amateur produced given that the internet is a large source for porn downloads. Since the Casio Exilim EX-V8 gives 90 minutes of VGA video at 30FPS even the cost of filming porn has got cheaper. That's a 90 minute porn flick on a single 4GB memory card!

If I were single and a swinger then I'd be right in there, making money from filming swinging parties :p

[In2Photos]

How cutting edge!

I'm using a circa 1973 Pioneer SA-9100
http://www.classic-audio.com/pioneer/pics/sa9100.jpg

Not the hardest hitting Amp rated at only 65 watts continuous, (yes and that's into TWO count them TWO channels ! :lol: ) but it's beefy hardware give it massive overhead when needed for the transients, and well, it's simply got the broadest frequency range of any Amp i've ever heard in the sub multi thousand category! (7 to 80,000 Hz that's right, you read that correctly, and this is not a typical CDS mis type :) 7 to 80,000 Hz!!! )

Hooked up is an old CD player and a yes, a turntable :)
Nice!
temp change of subject sorry :o I am 52 years old, how many of the above do you think I could hear
Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-15,000. But the ability for the equipment to reproduce the higher frequencies makes the ones you can hear sound smoother and less harsh. This is why SACD and DVD Audio increased the frequency range beyond 20kHz.

[Citizensmith]

If I were single and a swinger then I'd be right in there, making money from filming swinging parties :p

Hey honey, I'm off to umm, shoot a wedding.
Yeah, funny that, I was going to bring all me DSLR stuff but they wanted me to just bring this S5 IS instead.
Yeah, yeah, not my normal wedding clothes. Latex is a little unusual for a wedding, but apparently its what the mother of the bride really likes.

[CyberDyneSystems]

temp change of subject sorry :o I am 52 years old, how many of the above do you think I could hear

I was pleased to find out that my own high frequency hearing is holding up pretty well.
There was a link a few months back to some test tones, of course palying these tones on a PC speaker via a sound card was pointless above a certain point (or below) but it reminded me that I had similar test tones on CD.

I put them through there paces on above mentioned system, and was able to hear three or four tones beyond the 20K standard..
then things started to fade out, but I have no idea whether that was due to my ears, the CD player, the speakers or anything else in the signal path.

I doubt the speakers are able to go too far past 20K,. so it's very hard to tell.

[corduroy]

Yes, many don't know that a lot of the hi def players out there are mini form factor PCs that need to boot their embedded OS and spin up the drive. Boot times for the dual players is ghastly.

You are definitely correct!! I decided to go with blu-ray when I purchased my 46" Samsung LCD (LNT4671F). I got the the Sony BDP-S300 player.

It takes 45 seconds for the player to boot before I can eject the tray. Then it takes another 40 seconds to read a Blu-ray disc before it starts to play. Standard DVD's in this player take 30 sec to load.

There is a higher end Sony player which will boot and load disc faster but it was $100 more than the one I bought.

Why did I chose Blu-Ray over HD-DVD?

1) I looked at my local video rental store (Blockbuster) and saw 3X more Blu-Ray titles available for rent then HD-DVD. Also my internet DVD rental service (Netflix) had more Blu Ray titles than HD DVD.

2) The amount of storage available on Blu Ray is greater than HD DVD. (will this make a different in picture/sound quality/extra features?? dunno)
single layer blu ray = 25 GB
single layer hd dvd = 15 GB
dual layer blu ray = 50 GB
dual layer hd dvd = 30 GB
proto quad layer blu ray = 100 GB
proto triple layer hd dvd = 45 GB

3) Full 1080p
Would I notice a difference between 1080i and p? Probably not since my LCD isn't HUGE, but I have 1080p LCD and wanted a 1080p device. (Satellite is 1080i)

Both formats are amazing on a 1080 TV. I think anyone would be happy with either format...atleast until the format dies!!! Casio Royale and Die Hard are simply awesome on Blu-Ray!

*btw - I love the Samsung LCD. Very bright and clear. The 120Hz refresh is a bit strange for some shows. It's kinda hard to explain but it makes the motion look slighty fast forwarded occasionally. You can set the refresh to Off, low, med, high if you want. The goal of the 120Hz refresh is to fix an inherit motion blur problem with LCD's during fast motion (like sports). I had the 120Hz refresh off during a football game this weekend and definitely noticed the motion blur.

[Citizensmith]

2) The amount of storage available on Blu Ray is greater than HD DVD. (will this make a different in picture/sound quality/extra features?? dunno)
single layer blu ray = 25 GB
single layer hd dvd = 15 GB
dual layer blu ray = 50 GB
dual layer hd dvd = 30 GB
proto quad layer blu ray = 100 GB
proto triple layer hd dvd = 45 GB

3) Full 1080p
Would I notice a difference between 1080i and p? Probably not since my LCD isn't HUGE, but I have 1080p LCD and wanted a 1080p device. (Satellite is 1080i)

2) It won't affect quality. There is more than enough space to fit a movie on either format. It could possibly effect special features but nobody has released a disc with enough that that was a reason.

3) HD DVD is 1080p so not sure what you are getting at there?

[carianoff]

I dont know if this was posted, but its pretty HUGE.

Warner is ALL Blu-ray now!

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Breaking:_Warner_Goes_Blu-ray_Exclusive/1325

LOL the pissing contest continues.

[SoaringUSAEagle]

A ps3, malone? You a baby game player? :lol:
me

Hey dont be dissin the ps3 now Mark. ;) It's a great system and has built in blu ray for me. Now all I need is an HD DVD player and I can enjoy whichever format I want :) There, that was topic related.

No back to the gaming systems. The Wii totally rocks and that is the more "baby game player" system because nintendo has always targeted the kids. Granted there are more adult games out for it now and whatnot, but I thoroughly enjoy the wii. The PS3 is amazing too. Had the PS1, PS2, and PSP, and have enjoyed them all. I took the PSP back a few days after I got it because I didnt really need the portability of it.

Now the xbox on the other hand... I can definitely live without having that. Why should I pay more for the elite system (I would have to get that one due to overheating issues in previous models, so far this one is the best) and then have to pay nearly $50 a year to play online when I can do all that for free with the PS3? I can find plenty of people to play with online with COD4. I just dont see myself ever buying an xbox, thats all. :)

[corduroy]

2)
3) HD DVD is 1080p so not sure what you are getting at there?

My Bad - HD DVD does support 1080p. Some HD DVD players only support 1080i. Some support both. Blu ray player support both.

[cosworth]

My Bad - HD DVD does support 1080p. Some HD DVD players only support 1080i. Some support both. Blu ray player support both.


At least with HD-DVD you don't have to buy a 1080p player when your TV that you just bought is 1080i. Choices.

Warner's anncouncement although significant, only offsets Paramount's exclusive HD-DVD choice:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6176936.html

I'll let you in on a little secret. At one point, when the format war (if there really is one) comes to a near close, one side will finally give in an dmake a player that plays both. Legacy again. All those blu-ray or hd-dvd owners out there who still have discs can use their back catalogue.

Don't forget, eventually Sony made a VHS player. The present day existence of dual format DVD players already points to this happening.

Sony has been really good at fooling people into thinking HD-DVD is 1080i. Rootkit!!! ;)

[liquidhands]

why not just get an upconverter til the war is over?
Sorry didn't read any of this, because I figure its a useless argument... neither will survive. It'll be super HD digital cassetes or something like that in 5 years.

[Citizensmith]

why not just get an upconverter til the war is over?
Kind of why I got an HD DVD player. It cost me $100 more than I was planning to spend on an upconverting player and that was offset by the fact it had 10 free movies, and of course played HD stuff. HD DVD players also make very good upsampling DVD players. Gives me 1080i from a DVD. Sure it doesn't look as good as real 1080i but its not too far off.

[liquidhands]

I suppse for $100 more that's not a bad idea. I just got an up converter (i needed a new player anyhow) and have stopped buying dvd's. Since I can't even get all the movies I want if i by blu ray or HD dvd. Seemed more reasonable than having a more limited selection. what if I want to watch porn but I bought the wrong format=)

wow, just notice citizensmith is from sacto, what parts are you from?

[cosworth]

why not just get an upconverter til the war is over?
Sorry didn't read any of this, because I figure its a useless argument... neither will survive. It'll be super HD digital cassetes or something like that in 5 years.

And with my 8000th post I'll point out that my $180 HD-DVD player upconverts all my regular DVDs just fine.

[rhys]

Let me introduce myself. Fred Flintstone at your service.

We don't have HD DVD, Blu-Ray or even DVD DL. Our video player does take DVD and VHS. Only my laptop will write to DVD none of the other computers will do this. In fact the computer on which I write this has only a CDRW drive.

When HD DVD/Blu Ray becomes cheap enough to be worthy of consideration I might dive in. At the moment it's still a little pricey. Having said that I can see all the pros with medium format digital cameras will need one. The Mamiya takes 22mp images at 40mb each. That's just 100 on a 4GB card!

[CyberDyneSystems]

I dont know if this was posted, but its pretty HUGE.

Warner is ALL Blu-ray now!

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Breaking:_Warner_Goes_Blu-ray_Exclusive/1325

LOL the pissing contest continues.

I was just going to post this, and I think we may actually have an early winner this time,. this is a HUGE development!

[CyberDyneSystems]

At least with HD-DVD you don't have to buy a 1080p player when your TV that you just bought is 1080i. Choices.

Warner's anncouncement although significant, only offsets Paramount's exclusive HD-DVD choice:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6176936.html

I'll let you in on a little secret. At one point, when the format war (if there really is one) comes to a near close, one side will finally give in an dmake a player that plays both. Legacy again. All those blu-ray or hd-dvd owners out there who still have discs can use their back catalogue.

Don't forget, eventually Sony made a VHS player. The present day existence of dual format DVD players already points to this happening.

Sony has been really good at fooling people into thinking HD-DVD is 1080i. Rootkit!!! ;)

Never mind my previous post,. I did not realize that Paramount had done the opposite already. :lol:

[carianoff]

Never mind my previous post,. I did not realize that Paramount had done the opposite already. :lol:

LOL yeah, thats kinda old news. But honestly before today the only strong names attached to Blu-Ray was Disney and Sony. After the announcement today about Warner, they look serious finally. Toss apple into the mix at the next Mac Expo and there will be blood.

[neil85]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ... with Warner coming out and saying that they are going to Blu-Ray only ... what do you guys think this is going to do to the "war" ... that puts what 70% backing blu-ray and only 2 companies being HD only ?

"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger," Warner Bros. chairman and Chief Executive Barry Meyer said in a statement.
"We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers and, most importantly, consumers," the statement said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080105/ap_on_hi_te/dueling_dvd_formats;_ylt=AoRuM423tkEhiBjOTJtWBcus0 NUE

[neil85]

i also think that MS not having the HD player come factory hurt them in a way.

i mean most gamers i know are into watching movies too. so if you get the PS3 why spend more money on an HD player when you got a BR player

[neil85]

FRIDAY JAN. 4TH 2008 - WARNER BROS ANNOUNCES THEY ARE GOING BLU-RAY ONLY

this means that not counting porn its 5 for blu-ray and 2 for HD .. theres also reports goin around that with this news HD decided to cancel their 2 hour press release that was for the 6th, the day before the CES show in vegas

now there are no more companies that will be doing dual releases.

as for the porn industry, in japan they have released 10 on blu-ray and 1 on HD. one reason they dont want to allow them in the states is disney said they wouldnt use BR if sony let the porn industry have rights to BR


link to the press release on their website:

http://www2.warnerbros.com/web/corpcomm/press_release.jsp?id=BlurayDiscFormatRelease

press release:

Warner Bros. Entertainment To Release Its High-Definition DVD Titles Exclusively In The Blu-ray Disc Format Beginning Later This Year
(January 4, 2008 – Burbank, CA) – In response to consumer demand, Warner Bros. Entertainment will release its high-definition DVD titles exclusively in the Blu-ray disc format beginning later this year, it was announced today by Barry Meyer, Chairman & CEO, Warner Bros. and Kevin Tsujihara, President, Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Group.

“Warner Bros.’ move to exclusively release in the Blu-ray disc format is a strategic decision focused on the long term and the most direct way to give consumers what they want,” said Meyer. “The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers.”

Warner Home Video will continue to release its titles in standard DVD format and Blu-ray. After a short window following their standard DVD and Blu-ray releases, all new titles will continue to be released in HD DVD until the end of May 2008.

“Warner Bros. has produced in both high-definition formats in an effort to provide consumer choice, foster mainstream adoption and drive down hardware prices,” said Jeff Bewkes, President and Chief Executive Officer, Time Warner Inc., the parent company of Warner Bros. Entertainment. “Today’s decision by Warner Bros. to distribute in a single format comes at the right time and is the best decision both for consumers and Time Warner.”

“A two-format landscape has led to consumer confusion and indifference toward high definition, which has kept the technology from reaching mass adoption and becoming the important revenue stream that it can be for the industry,” said Tsujihara. “Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray, and we believe that recognizing this preference is the right step in making this great home entertainment experience accessible to the widest possible audience. Warner Bros. has worked very closely with the Toshiba Corporation in promoting high definition media and we have enormous respect for their efforts. We look forward to working with them on other projects in the future.”

[cosworth]

Toss apple into the mix at the next Mac Expo and there will be blood.


Apple's impact will be a drop in the bucket compared to Dell's already announced and shipping blu-ray exclusivity.

[SoaringUSAEagle]

I think blu ray is going to take it.

[neil85]

i agree, warner going BR only was a good step for BR. theres only 2 companies left backing HD.

granted HD players can be had for $100 they are only 1080i.

BR players can be had for $400-500 pending on if you get a player that upconverts to 720p or 1080p

thats still a pretty penny between the two but you get an HD player thats 1080P and you are around $300 i think so its not a HUGE difference.

then just wait for a BR player to be 10 free and its a great deal. they always have 5 free by mail

[carianoff]

Apple's impact will be a drop in the bucket compared to Dell's already announced and shipping blu-ray exclusivity.

Yeah in as far as sales goes. But the PR generated from apple alone if they were to adopt B-R would trump just about everything else that would make the same announcement.

On the other hand, can you imagine how hot a mac mini with blu-ray would be. It would sell so fast you couldn't keep it in stock.

[Citizensmith]

Yeah in as far as sales goes. But the PR generated from apple alone if they were to adopt B-R would trump just about everything else that would make the same announcement.

On the other hand, can you imagine how hot a mac mini with blu-ray would be. It would sell so fast you couldn't keep it in stock.

Your kidding right. You think a company that makes a single, not exactly popular media device (macmini) would trump Warner (or any other studio) announcing their decision. I'm not saying Apple, if they do make a choice, wouldn't be a good thing for either side, just that they are bit players in this market. A Bluray player wasn't enough to make the PS3 a sell out. Why do you think a Macmini with the $250ish price premium it would add would be popular? Would people really spend $800 on a 3rd rate computer with a BluRay drive? A PS3 would be a much better choice.

[Citizensmith]

then just wait for a BR player to be 10 free and its a great deal. they always have 5 free by mail

With BR looking to be winning that won't ever happen. There will be plenty of good deals for HD as they try and fight to keep relevant. BR will just be able to sit back knowing people have to buy their players to get access to all their movies.

[CoolToolGuy]

I could really care less which one wins, but I won't dive into either one until there is a winner. I wish the winner would be declared soon.

With up-convert, there is no urgency to make a jump unless you just have to have the latest & greatest. I'm zeroing in on a Sony 5-disk up-convert player as soon as Best Buy puts it on sale.

Then I'll be looking to replace the VCR with something for time-shifting - a DVR without a subscription (sorry, Tivo) and with the ability to offload to DVD. I'm not sure it exists at this time, but CES is next week so who knows.

Have Fun,

[jpthomas27]

Warner just announced they are going to be releasing exlusively on Blue Ray. They previousely released movies on both formats. With that announcment the number of studios supporting HD-DVD is dwindling. Within the movie industry (the industry that will ultimately decide this war) this has been seen as the final blow to HD-DVD. There are already rumors of the remaining studios starting talks to abandon HD-DVD format.

I'm not an expert by an means. I'm just very interested in HD movies and follow the format war pretty closely. The Warner announcment just happened the other day and the rest of the info comes from reading variouse, reliable DVD and Hi-Def related sources. As an amateur photg, I just happened across this thread here and thought I would add my two cents. I have until now held off on moving to a Hi-Def format, but IMHO, at this point, it's just about over and Blue-Ray is the winner. I'm ready to jump in now at this point without any worries.

[Citizensmith]

Warner just announced they are going to be releasing exclusively on Blue Ray. They previously released movies on both formats. With that announcement the number of studios supporting HD-DVD is dwindling. Within the movie industry (the industry that will ultimately decide this war) this has been seen as the final blow to HD-DVD. There are already rumors of the remaining studios starting talks to abandon HD-DVD format.

This isn't a very long thread, and the warner thing has come up several times before. You may want to try reading through a thread before you post. :)

[neil85]

yea just on the previous page i listed the links to warner bros press release portion of their site with a quote of the release :D


With BR looking to be winning that won't ever happen. There will be plenty of good deals for HD as they try and fight to keep relevant. BR will just be able to sit back knowing people have to buy their players to get access to all their movies.


i bet youd be surprised. if/when they beat out HD they still need to get people to jump on the bangwagon of HD. To do that you need killer deals.

Just becuase they beat out the competition, they still need to get the customers

For the majority of people they are going to see $25-30 BR discs and then look at the standard at $10-20 and think why bother?

They would also see $50 DVD player compared to $400+ BR player

then when you get into the nicer BR players they upconvert standard to a 1080P signal (not just 720P or 1080I like other upconverts). granted it wont be the same as a true hi-def film but again those that are not hardcore electronics people arent going to care.

[neil85]

Also granted this was before the Warner bros thing but just before christmas they were doing the 10 free movies.

Even then that didnt help their sales. im guessing within 4 months they players will drop $100 and youll see some killer incentives to buy

They have ALWAYS had the 5 free movies.

[carianoff]

....not exactly popular media device (macmini) would trump Warner (or any other studio) announcing their decision. I'm not saying Apple, if they do make a choice, wouldn't be a good thing for either side, just that they are bit players in this market. A Bluray player wasn't enough to make the ......

Warner saying it will back it, gives some entertainment value. But, who cares about movies, In 10 years no one is going to be buying movies on discs, so you might as well create a platform that makes the format useful. Apple backing it gives it credibility as a usable medium, something that BR and HDVD doesn't have yet, a quality that would pull one to the foreground. I think from a PR standpoint knowing that I can get Harry Potter on blu-ray pales in comparison to company that has a history of setting tech trends like apple.

As far as the mac mini goes, im just makeing **** up. But it would be the most sexy player of its size, the ps3 is too big. You can't sell it to women and mothers as a fashion accessory like you can an apple product.

[Gujustud]

Does anyone wonder WHY Warner went to BR?

Word is that they were paid close to $500m to switch to BR.

Read these links:
http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2008/01/04/warner-swayed-by-500-million-from-the-bda/

[carianoff]

Does anyone wonder WHY Warner went to BR?

Word is that they were paid close to $500m to switch to BR.

Read these links:
http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2008/01/04/warner-swayed-by-500-million-from-the-bda/

Oh its money, its not because of any real good reason. Beta was better than VHS, but look who won, pretty sure that was money too.

[Tony-S]

Your kidding right. You think a company that makes a single, not exactly popular media device (macmini)

You mean the Apple TV?

would trump Warner (or any other studio) announcing their decision. I'm not saying Apple, if they do make a choice, wouldn't be a good thing for either side, just that they are bit players in this market. A Bluray player wasn't enough to make the PS3 a sell out. Why do you think a Macmini with the $250ish price premium it would add would be popular? Would people really spend $800 on a 3rd rate computer with a BluRay drive? A PS3 would be a much better choice.

I'm not convinced this BluRay vs. HD-DVD is all that important to Apple. In fact, their business model for movies and TV shows is by download. I suspect they'll come down on the side of BluRay since they're an original member of the advisory committee (but also have their hands in HD-DVD). I think it's to Apple's advantage to keep the war going until they can mature the download video business.

Now - the Apple TV. It's actually a great little device. The biggest limitation for it now is the lack of HD video with 5.1 surround sound. (Right now, the best in movies/TV shows you can get is DVD quality with 5-channel surround.) I'm hoping that MWSF will have announcements for such content. There'd be no need for BluRay or HD-DVD for me.

The Mini is also a great home theater computer. Unlike the Apple TV, it can do 1080 video with 5.1 (or more) surround sound. It's a software update away from running BR/HD-DVD from an external drive.

[4x4rock]

I just spent the money I saved for the 300/f2.8 IS on a Sony Bravia KDL-40S3000 for the bedroom and now looking for a DVD player to match it.

I'm going to wait a little longer for the format war to settle down even though the A3 can be had for $180 + 10 free movies is really tempting.

I will probably settle for either the Sony NS77 or the OPPO HD980. Both have good review with the OPPO edging the Sony but more expensive.

With the way it's going right now, I don't think it'll end anytime soon.

[Buck Russell]

My father just bought a blu-ray for the "family" and just paired it with a 40" Toshiba LCD/HDTV and HD DirecTV. Really nice setup - as far as who's going to win...I think HD DVD but thats just my opinion.

[Citizensmith]

Warner saying it will back it, gives some entertainment value. But, who cares about movies, In 10 years no one is going to be buying movies on discs, so you might as well create a platform that makes the format useful. Apple backing it gives it credibility as a usable medium, something that BR and HDVD doesn't have yet, a quality that would pull one to the foreground. I think from a PR standpoint knowing that I can get Harry Potter on blu-ray pales in comparison to company that has a history of setting tech trends like apple.

As far as the mac mini goes, im just makeing **** up. But it would be the most sexy player of its size, the ps3 is too big. You can't sell it to women and mothers as a fashion accessory like you can an apple product.

I see where you are coming from. In 10 years time though there will probably be a big fight as to which sort of holographic media we'll be using to replace BluRay. I was kind of hoping for a multiformat player for my computer. I keep on jumping on at 4x it seems. I got a 4x CD ROM, a 4x CD RW, a 4x DVD ROM, 4xDVD RW. So, somebody release a 4x HD/BR player and I'll be all over it. Assuming it costs less than $200 that is. :)

[Citizensmith]

You mean the Apple TV?

I'm not convinced this BluRay vs. HD-DVD is all that important to Apple. In fact, their business model for movies and TV shows is by download. I suspect they'll come down on the side of BluRay since they're an original member of the advisory committee (but also have their hands in HD-DVD). I think it's to Apple's advantage to keep the war going until they can mature the download video business.

Now - the Apple TV. It's actually a great little device. The biggest limitation for it now is the lack of HD video with 5.1 surround sound. (Right now, the best in movies/TV shows you can get is DVD quality with 5-channel surround.) I'm hoping that MWSF will have announcements for such content. There'd be no need for BluRay or HD-DVD for me.

The Mini is also a great home theater computer. Unlike the Apple TV, it can do 1080 video with 5.1 (or more) surround sound. It's a software update away from running BR/HD-DVD from an external drive.

Actually I meant the Mac Mini, I know very little about the Apple TV. The Mac Mini does look like a great device. I just wish it had a little more guts to it. I think it would need more than a firmware update for full HD content, that stuff is as much of a video hog as 3D gaming. Here's hoping it gets an HighDef drive and a bit more power. :)

[Tony-S]

Actually I meant the Mac Mini, I know very little about the Apple TV.

The price you stated threw me off. The Mini starts at $600, while the Apple TV starts at $300.

The Mac Mini does look like a great device. I just wish it had a little more guts to it. I think it would need more than a firmware update for full HD content, that stuff is as much of a video hog as 3D gaming. Here's hoping it gets an HighDef drive and a bit more power. :)

Actually, movie playback is largely dependent on the CPU, not the GPU. I play 1080 HD in Dolby Digital on one of my Minis now using Elgato's Eye TV from over-the-air antenna. I watched the Orange Bowl a couple of nights ago in 1080 and DD - it was quite a treat (plus the team I was rooting for won!). The Mini also is a DVR. The GMA950 isn't good for 3D gaming, but it handles 2D things very well. 1080 is only 24 fps, so it's perfectly suitable. Of course, decoding is all done by the processor, and just about any Core Duo chip can decode MPEG2 or H.264 1080 without any trouble. It's a very nice system. Put an HDMI output on it and it would be tough to beat for a home theater controller.

[neil85]

why replace the current DVD's with BR copies when the good BR players will upconvert your standard to a 1080P signal?

yes it wont be AS GOOD but thats still better then the standard 480...

also only a few HD players will upconvert to 1080P most are only 720P & 1080i

[mellowd]

HD DVD Promo Group Cancels CES Press Conference


It was among the most highly anticipated press events of this year's Consumer Electronics Show, but following today's announcement from Warner Home Video (http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Breaking:_Warner_Goes_Blu-ray_Exclusive/1325), this Sunday's press conference from the HD DVD Promotions Group has been cancelled.
Organizers sent out a note to members of the media and invited guests late Friday, attributing the cancellation to the timing of Warner's announcement. A rep for the group told us this evening that the press conference will not be rescheduled, but that the group will still have a presence at the show from its booth on the convention floor.

The full text of the HD DVD Promo Group's email follows below:
Based on the timing of the Warner Home Video announcement today, we have decided to postpone our CES 2008 press conference scheduled for Sunday, January 6th at 8:30 p.m. in the Wynn Hotel. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.
We are currently discussing the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluating next steps. We believe the consumer continues to benefit from HD DVD’s commitment to quality and affordability – a bar that is critical for the mainstream success of any format.
We’ll continue to keep you updated on new developments around HD DVD.


http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/CES_2008/HD_DVD_Promo_Group_Cancels_CES_Press_Conference/1331

[aLFaDaRK]

I'm rooting for holographic memory discs (300 gigs on a single disc, and read/write 10x faster than a regular DVD) which means I won't be investing in either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, (Too close to regular DVD's at this point) however I think Blu-ray has the edge. I don't know anyone in my town who uses HD-DVD, but I know quite a few who use Blu-Ray (whether it's a PS3 or a dedicated player is irrelevant, since it's technically still playing Blu-Ray discs).

[mellowd]

I'm rooting for holographic memory discs (300 gigs on a single disc, and read/write 10x faster than a regular DVD) which means I won't be investing in either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, (Too close to regular DVD's at this point) however I think Blu-ray has the edge. I don't know anyone in my town who uses HD-DVD, but I know quite a few who use Blu-Ray (whether it's a PS3 or a dedicated player is irrelevant, since it's technically still playing Blu-Ray discs).

There is already technology to fit 1TB+ on a plexiglass disc the size of a DVD

[aLFaDaRK]

There is already technology to fit 1TB+ on a plexiglass disc the size of a DVD

What technology is that? (Or is it the same?) Because I root for that. :)

Edit: I was wrong, Holographic Versatile Discs apparently can hold 3.9 terabytes..

[mellowd]

What technology is that? (Or is it the same?) Because I root for that. :)

Edit: I was wrong, Holographic Versatile Discs apparently can hold 3.9 terabytes..

It's amazing how far it can go. Just think about it, how much data can 1 animal cell contain?

Shrink it down to the molecular level and have the molucles be your data. Heck, you could shrink it down to individual atoms, possibly even further, it's crazy

The 1TB disc: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=storage&articleId=9053822

[cosworth]

Apparently Sony's wallet is $500 million lighter this morning.

I know they dropped DRM recently, the rootkit fisaco was a nightmare but truth be told the movies I WANT to own are only on HD-DVD.

Eve wonder why Star Wars isn't on either?

If HD-DVD is the lesser format long term, then that'e fine. I still have a cheap upconverting DVD player that once I ditch my 1080i TV I can pick the new format, most likely the content delivered on my PVR. Which will still be 1080I since HDTV isn't going to go to 1080p any time soon. Sorta comes full circle actually...%96 of all hdtv in homes today are 1080i.

[Citizensmith]

Apparently Sony's wallet is $500 million lighter this morning.

I know they dropped DRM recently, the rootkit fisaco was a nightmare but truth be told the movies I WANT to own are only on HD-DVD.

Eve wonder why Star Wars isn't on either?

If HD-DVD is the lesser format long term, then that'e fine. I still have a cheap upconverting DVD player that once I ditch my 1080i TV I can pick the new format, most likely the content delivered on my PVR. Which will still be 1080I since HDTV isn't going to go to 1080p any time soon. Sorta comes full circle actually...%96 of all hdtv in homes today are 1080i.

And I wonder what % of TVs are HDTVs. The 1080p folks are a tiny minority. Makes me feel like a Mac user. :)

Sony starting to drop DRM is interesting. There is only one DRM hold out now. I wonder when Apple will ditch Fairplay? If none of the studios want DRM it will seem a little odd for a hardware company to then slap it on top.

As for the battle between BluRay and HD DVD. BluRay is Megatron, HD DVD is Bumblebee. I know which will probably win, I know which I'd rather win. :)

[Tony-S]

And I wonder what % of TVs are HDTVs. The 1080p folks are a tiny minority. Makes me feel like a Mac user. :)

AH HA! So, you admit that we Mac users, while in the minority, are clearly better! :lol:

[Citizensmith]

AH HA! So, you admit that we Mac users, while in the minority, are clearly better! :lol:

Dang it, caught by my own logic. :)

Accept I got a Vizio from Costco so I'm not sure that counts.

[Lord_Malone]

Dang it, caught by my own logic. :)

Accept I got a Vizio from Costco so I'm not sure that counts.

I was going to get a Vizio, but ended up with a 42" Toshiba Regza LCD. They had a pretty killer deal at Circuit City, but their customer service was super sh!tty. I got Best Buy to match the price and ended up a happy customer. The best deal going for full HDTV at the moment I think.

[cosworth]

why replace the current DVD's with BR copies when the good BR players will upconvert your standard to a 1080P signal?

yes it wont be AS GOOD but thats still better then the standard 480...

also only a few HD players will upconvert to 1080P most are only 720P & 1080i

Thids logic is clearly the reason Sony's marketing engine is corrupt.

Any, and I mean ANY HD-DVD player will upconvert and it will look exactly the same as any blu-ray player. 720p or 1080p. Doesn;t matter. there is only so much resolution there to play with on a regular DVD.

Again, Sony gives you no choice and ONE player on the market is up to snuff with BD standardd. All HD-DVDs are one the standard and what many don't know is that HD-DVD is region free. Again , American blinders are on. The rest fo the world might choose HD-DVD due to the region free discs.

[SuzyView]

I went to Best Buy to see what the big to do was to see how much more it was going to cost me to change over to one or the other for my set up at home. Dell offered Blu-Ray for the DVD burner as the option for my new laptop. I didn't take it. It cost a little more and I didn't know if Blu-Ray was the best option at the time. After hearing the talk on the news, reading some articles, I get the feeling whatever you get, the technology will be changing within a short period of time. So, I live with what I've got. I still have LP's in my basement from the 1970's. :)

[cosworth]

Suzy your experience is exactly what the number crunchers don't understand. Warner or Paramount choosing a format isn't going to sway people overnight. I still have a box of videocassettes yet no vcr. I had all my DVDs stolen a number of years back and had been reluctant to replace most of them with the "new" format.

You are not alone.

[felix21685]

i pick bluray so my ps3 doesn't become obsolete

and what some people don't understand is that in order to utilize the new technology aka High Definition you must have an HD TV. Some older tube tv's will do 1080i but that doesn't quite do it like a new HD tv.

[neil85]

even then though the number of 720P & 1080i TV's out numbers the number of 1080P TV's in a store. im guessing its the same in homes too considering 1080P is typically an extra $750+

[aLFaDaRK]

even then though the number of 720P & 1080i TV's out numbers the number of 1080P TV's in a store. im guessing its the same in homes too considering 1080P is typically an extra $750+

I find there are many more 1080P TV's in store, with big signs that read "FULL HD!" all over the place. It's in homes that I see the difference, since I have a 720P LCD, and many of my friends do not have "full HD" either.

Perhaps it's just the stores I visit, but it's something I've noticed.

[rammy]

Apparently: "Rich Greenfield at Pali Capital predicted that HD DVD would now "die a quick death" and predicted that would be good news for DVD sales."

From here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7174591.stm

[Lord_Malone]

People on the Blu-Ray forums are ecstatic about Warner's decision to back Blu-Ray exclusively. Some of these comments are pretty funny...

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=803&filter=rating30

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=29652

Wow. The guys at the HD DVD forums are really salty...

http://forum.hd-dvd.com/showthread.php?t=2566

Such a contrast from what this poll reflects (currently blu-ray 42 vs. hd dvd 44).

But nowadays, more people know more about Crips than Bloods.

[Tony-S]

It looks like Parmount might switch to BluRay as well:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ea637496-bd8d-11dc-b7e6-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1

This sounds like the end of HD-DVD.

[Lord_Malone]

Damn, Jason (cosworth). The one time you didn't bet on Sony and this happens. Sorry, man.

[cosworth]

Looks like I'll just keep my HD-D3 and use it as an upconverter for a couple years.

Again, Sony has screwed me over. I vow to never buy a product of theirs ever again.

*former loyal Sony buyer.

[cosworth]

However:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aQMGgh2LV_bU&refer=japan

[Lord_Malone]

As many as 20 companies may end their support for HD DVD...

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article3153038.ece

[carianoff]

Things are heating up.

[Tony-S]

Well, maybe Paramont's not giving up on HD-DVD. They've denied the report, apparently.

Here's an interesting blurb on it, and with a distribution of the movie studios.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/08/deathblow_paramount_to_abandon_hd_dvd_in_return_to _blu_ray.html

[Lord_Malone]

Well, maybe Paramont's not giving up on HD-DVD. They've denied the report, apparently.

Here's an interesting blurb on it, and with a distribution of the movie studios.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/08/deathblow_paramount_to_abandon_hd_dvd_in_return_to _blu_ray.html

A Paramount spokesperson made that claim in an e-mail, but there's no way to really know if it's definitive. Along the same vein, Toshiba says that the FT report is "speculative". Only the top execs at Paramount know what will happen in regards to their support for HD DVD in the future. Perhaps Paramount will honor its commitment to HD DVD for now, but will probably switch to Blu-Ray, along with Universal, in the end.

http://images.appleinsider.com/hdformatwars-080108.png

[Citizensmith]

Sandisk just announced a 32Gb Flash based media player. The significant increases in flash memory sizes, and constantly improving download speeds really make you wonder how many years optical media have left. Sony may have won, but I wonder if it may be a hollow victory if discs start going the way of the floppy. Do you want a BluRay player and trips to the store to buy movies, or a HD DVR and trips to a web page to download content?