Horror Story in Italy . . .

[darktiger]

Please don't slam Americans as naive - not cool. I have found that most Americans who travel abroad are the least naive and most open minded of the bunch...


I agree. I just got back from Hawaii, and heard a german dad tell his son that Korean food is trash. The wife and child wanted Korean........Good thing to try and influence your kids.....

I am going to Italy this spring, and will not be discouraged on bringing my camera equipment. I just use common sense and I will be fine. I was fine in Greece and China and both of those places are tourist spots...(guess it kind of helps that I am built like a football player, tall and muscular.)

[CyberDyneSystems]

And there's some tasty Korean dishes too.. though what I have had pails in comparison to the Viet Namese I've had..

I remember a Korean dish that was labeled in english "Sauted Octopus" though the Korean description was much longer, it seemed safe enough for my palette.
I ordered this by pointing, and the very Korean waitress with nearly no english was suddenly very impressed by me, from that point on she brought all appetizers and drinks to the tanble and offered them to me virutally ignoring the rest of the table.

When it arrived it was a huge oval dish of a very deep RED.. Oh man, it was the hottest thing I have ever eaten! By far, .. it was like it was melting the platter.
Normally I would have just not eaten any after the first bite, but now I had this reputation as some Red Headed God since I had ordered this herculean dish.. the whole restaurant it turned out was watching anxiously to see if I could actually tackle this Vesuvius of a meal! :lol:

[rhys]

I agree. I just got back from Hawaii, and heard a german dad tell his son that Korean food is trash. The wife and child wanted Korean........Good thing to try and influence your kids.....

I am going to Italy this spring, and will not be discouraged on bringing my camera equipment. I just use common sense and I will be fine. I was fine in Greece and China and both of those places are tourist spots...(guess it kind of helps that I am built like a football player, tall and muscular.)

I'm British. I used to travel widely through Eastern Europe. There, there was a massive theft problem. It seemed virtually everybody was a wannabe thief - particularly in the streets and near the transit systems. Even in the countryside people were not that honest. Some countries I guess you just have to be on your guard all the time. The only things that were stolen from me were my elderly battery shaver, sewing kit and toothbrush! I think they stole for the sake of it rather than for profit or their own use. Who in blazes would use a used toothbrush?

Italy and Spain have a major problem with pickpockets and bag slashers. The trick I found there was to carry everything in your shirt pocket with a jacket zipped up over that. With a soft backpack such as mine, I put the valuable stuff in the centre well padded by clothing so that when they groped the bag they felt nothing but clothes. I caught a few bag gropers and pocket fondlers!

Regarding Korean food being trash - I can tell you that my wife (who is American) really does not like that British delicacy of Marmite on toast. She and her sister both used picturesque profanity to describe it. They both balk at tongue sandwiches (another British delicacy). They didn't even like the idea of cured pig snout (a Spanish bar snack that I quite enjoy). I guess everybody has an opinion about food that they like to relate.

[cosworth]

I only buy bags with double zippers. I use a carabiner or an actual lock on the zippers. It takes two hands to do them and I'm not the "easy" target.

Also I'm a bit lucky that I'm not tall but fairly wide. I walked most of lower Manhattan, North Brooklyn and a lot of subway with a 1 series and a 70-200 hanging out and no one even looked at me.

You gotta be 240 plus of you want to roll me.

I'm a big fan of the carabiner. Seems a worthy deterrent. I'll admit I haven't been to the pickpocket capital of the world (Italy) but if I did I'd have about 5 of them on me and my money would be in my shoe. With ID in my front pocket or tucked in my sock.

http://www.bentgear.com/images/CAM0006.jpg

[Grace]

You gotta be 240 plus if you want to roll me.




:lol:

:p

[Mum2J&M]

I'm British. I used to travel widely through Eastern Europe. There, there was a massive theft problem. It seemed virtually everybody was a wannabe thief - particularly in the streets and near the transit systems. Even in the countryside people were not that honest. Some countries I guess you just have to be on your guard all the time. The only things that were stolen from me were my elderly battery shaver, sewing kit and toothbrush! I think they stole for the sake of it rather than for profit or their own use. Who in blazes would use a used toothbrush?

Italy and Spain have a major problem with pickpockets and bag slashers. The trick I found there was to carry everything in your shirt pocket with a jacket zipped up over that. With a soft backpack such as mine, I put the valuable stuff in the centre well padded by clothing so that when they groped the bag they felt nothing but clothes. I caught a few bag gropers and pocket fondlers!

Regarding Korean food being trash - I can tell you that my wife (who is American) really does not like that British delicacy of Marmite on toast. She and her sister both used picturesque profanity to describe it. They both balk at tongue sandwiches (another British delicacy). They didn't even like the idea of cured pig snout (a Spanish bar snack that I quite enjoy). I guess everybody has an opinion about food that they like to relate.

Yes, I find Marmite repulsive as well. My husband tries to give it to the kids all the time. They refuse to eat it. He also likes all those English dishes including innards of some sort. I do enjoy a good haddock and chips with vinegar and cornish pasties however.

[Becca]

The last time I visited England, I was taken out for a "traditional" fish and chips lunch. I went off to the ladies room and when I got back to the table, there was the fish and chips, covered with a load of green slimy looking stuff. I was informed that it was called "mushy peas" and that's how you eat chips. Ugh! The fish was good though!

[Roy Mathers]

Cheese and Marmite sandwiches are delicious!

[DocFrankenstein]

The last time I visited England, I was taken out for a "traditional" fish and chips lunch. I went off to the ladies room and when I got back to the table, there was the fish and chips, covered with a load of green slimy looking stuff. I was informed that it was called "mushy peas" and that's how you eat chips. Ugh! The fish was good though!
I didn't know deep fried potatos and fish was "traditional" english cuisine.

Was it a McDonalds food with some old gravy?

[Roy Mathers]

I didn't know deep fried potatos and fish was "traditional" english cuisine.

Was it a McDonalds food with some old gravy?


You seriously didn't know that fish and chips were traditionally English?:eek:

[CyberDyneSystems]

You seriously didn't know that fish and chips were traditionally English?:eek:

Oh my God, Chip stands and Curry are found LITERALLY on every block in London.. and everyone thinks the one on there block is the best :)

Sorry Doc, on this one you may as well have just come here from Mars! :)

[Roy Mathers]

You don't mean LITERALLY - I can show you some 'blocks' in London that have neither a chip stand or a curry stand.

[DocFrankenstein]

Oh my God, Chip stands and Curry are found LITERALLY on every block in London.. and everyone thinks the one on there block is the best :)

Sorry Doc, on this one you may as well have just come here from Mars! :)
Hehehe When I was in london I was eating traditional indian food. :D

And a chip is a very thin slice of potato with sodium acetate on it, as in a dorito chip for example.

Deep fried potatoes I always associated with americans, french and belgians.

I'd guess fish and potatoes would be the main thing, just geographically. But I always thought it wouldn't be deep fried. Mushed potatoes and eel pie of sorts.

How embarassing, but my "location" field is filled out like that for a reason. ;)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Doc, there's even "chip trucks" in Ontario.. and I mean the french fried potato kind of "chip"

Here's the Toronto one right next to city hall;

http://www.dine.to/thechiptruck

[CyberDyneSystems]

You don't mean LITERALLY - I can show you some 'blocks' in London that have neither a chip stand or a curry stand.

O-kay then "Virtually" :lol:

Or about as often as we have Starbucks and Canada has Tim Hortons..

[Woolburr]

You don't mean LITERALLY - I can show you some 'blocks' in London that have neither a chip stand or a curry stand.

The horrors!:lol::lol:

I still remember my first sample from a street stand...wrapped in newsprint...perfectly crisped...incredible malt vinegar....yum! A very far cry from the burger from the night before...which I suspect had been known as "Trigger" in life.

[DocFrankenstein]

Doc, there's even "chip trucks" in Ontario.. and I mean the french fried potato kind of "chip"

Here's the Toronto one right next to city hall;

http://www.dine.to/thechiptruck
:lol:

Strangely enough, the side of that truck says "FRENCH fries" :D ;)

Not chips. But we do have chip trucks in ontario as well. They say "doritos" on the side.

[mellowd]

O-kay then "Virtually" :lol:

Or about as often as we have Starbucks and Canada has Tim Hortons..

Walking to work I pass at least 7 starbucks. 2 streets down from my previous residence I had a block with just 2 gambling shops, 2 off-licenses and 2 kebab shops. Perfect London street.

[bigb]

thats just ONE of the reasons i have no desire to ever leave the states... at least here, our crooks arent as sneaky so you can pretty much spot em a mile away..

My chief reason being, im 42 Years old and have never left the east coast..well once i went to Texas for training.. that was it. theres Waaaay too much to see and do here in the US for me to worry about going elswhere.

Glad to hear you at least were covered.. what was it that they sprayed on you?

I generally really dislike stereotyping, but when I see a post like that I just can't help it :-D

I do agree that there are many things to be seen in the US. But I think you are completely missing the point of traveling... It's not only about "things to be seen". And even if it were, it would depend on what "things" you wanna see. If we are talking about aesthetic beauty, I can guarantee you that there's more of it in Florence alone than in most of the US of A :-)

I think this whole national stereotyping thing is not about ignorance or nativity or anything like that - it's about attitude. And there I think there definitely is such thing as American attitude towards all thing foreign :-) But that's a whole other LONG story.

Anyway... don't mean to be offensive, I just thought it was an interesting subject, even on a three month old thread.

[bigb]

I have seen photojournalists working in the Baltics. Generally they have 2 - 3 big burly bodyguards with them.

Yeah, right... And people in Romania are all vampires - I've seen it with my eyes!!!

Talk about stereotypes...

[bigb]

:rolleyes: Switzerland is not different from the rest of the world.... :rolleyes:

Yes it is.

[bigb]

You gotta be 240 plus of you want to roll me.

I'm a big fan of the carabiner. Seems a worthy deterrent. I'll admit I haven't been to the pickpocket capital of the world (Italy) but if I did I'd have about 5 of them on me and my money would be in my shoe. With ID in my front pocket or tucked in my sock.




Well being big and everything does help sometimes and I am talking from experience - I am a very over-sized individual myself :-) However, we are not talking about size, strength and physical skills here. These people use tricks to fool you - how do you wanna beat up 8 children and at the same time to boot?! Besides if you got real criminals on your hands your size and strength won't help you much, trust me. I learned that lesson in the US, quite ironically, considering the topic of this particular thread.

[zacker]

bigb, you seem bored tonight. the cheif reason i dont travel?? i LOVE my country and dont feel or see the need to go elsewhere when i havent seen 99.9% of where i live now. And if i was to travel? id go see the Amazon or somewhere else that is endangered.. i have a funny feeling Italy isnt going anywhere soon.... besides, if i wanna see italians, ill just go visit my aunts and uncles..:)

[zacker]

Yeah, right... And people in Romania are all vampires - I've seen it with my eyes!!!

Talk about stereotypes...

thry are, all gypsies, and werewolves too!

[DocFrankenstein]

thry are, all gypsies, and werewolves too!
You guys are funny on so many levels.

[kblair210]

That's like saying annoying Vegas singers named Celine come from Canada.. oh wait..

[bigb]

bigb, you seem bored tonight. the cheif reason i dont travel?? i LOVE my country and dont feel or see the need to go elsewhere when i havent seen 99.9% of where i live now. And if i was to travel? id go see the Amazon or somewhere else that is endangered.. i have a funny feeling Italy isnt going anywhere soon.... besides, if i wanna see italians, ill just go visit my aunts and uncles..:)

No, I completely understand you! I mean it's your right to decide what to do with your time and money. I have absolute respect for that - to me it's just a matter of choice and that's all. But then don't get offended when people are talking about American tourists and American attitude to foreign traveling and all things foreign in general ;-) Again, zero offense intended.

Talking about traveling in the US, one of the places I will definitely return to in my lifetime is Savannah - amazing place to take pictures!!!

[bigb]

You guys are funny on so many levels.

It's actually kinda sad too if you seriously think about it... I mean there are stereotypes and stereotypes. I am not sure which ones are more hurtful and dangerous - the ones which hold some distorted truth or the ones which are outrageously, grotesquely, blatantly wrong... But all are to some extent. I've lived in Eastern Europe for a very long time and can tell you from first hand experience that this is non-sense.

Actually Eastern Europe was tons and tons safer than the rest of the world during communism. As a 6 year old I used to play in the neighbourhood until 2 AM and my parents were never afraid of anything simply because crime was virtually non-existent! But anyway... that's a whole other story :-)

[thekid24]

Bump: To the original poster...

I plan on going to Florence, Italy sometime this summer...and when I finally made the decision on the trip ..I remembered reading this thread earlier this year.

I am currently looking into insuring my camera equipement and as drastic as it may sound, if Im not able to do so I probably wont go on the trip.

I know I can go w/o insurence but having that uneasy feeling in the back of my mind will prohibit me from truely enjoying the experience.

Sorry to hear about your situation, I just hope others can take it as a lesson learned without literally experiencing it for themselves.

[ajbalazic]

People may not like it, or admit it, but stereotypes are always loosely based on the truth.

[thekid24]

You gotta be 240 plus of you want to roll me.
:rolleyes:Pfft...youre a lightweight...junior:p

[Box Brownie]

Sterotypes aside there is something we have to face and that is that serendipity sometimes comes into play.

By that I mean, it has been said that some folk by the way they dress & act leave themselves more open to being selected as 'victims' whereas others do not but the serendipity I refer to is that any of us anywhere in the world could be a victim of unwanted attention by criminals and no matter what we do to reduce our "profile" it could still happen but the odds are heavily in your favour that you will enjoy the holiday without incident.

Have fun and enjoy Italy (and wherever you venture), just work the good advice and keep your wits about you.

[LBaldwin]

Sterotypes aside there is something we have to face and that is that serendipity sometimes comes into play.

By that I mean, it has been said that some folk by the way they dress & act leave themselves more open to being selected as 'victims' whereas others do not but the serendipity I refer to is that any of us anywhere in the world could be a victim of unwanted attention by criminals and no matter what we do to reduce our "profile" it could still happen but the odds are heavily in your favour that you will enjoy the holiday without incident.

Have fun and enjoy Italy (and wherever you venture), just work the good advice and keep your wits about you.

It's not serendipity to exapand on your statement. It's actually called situational awareness. One of the other posters here on the list got mugged and he saw it coming but did not recognize the ambush situation. The OP here got ambushed too. Just like downtown Baghdad without the the explosives. It could have been much worse and involved death or worse major disability.

If you are or have been trained to constantly be on guard for your safety in unfamilier situations or grounds then the potential for attack is much lower.

Attackers look for targets of opportunity that will garner them a bounty without working for it and without a serious chance of danger to themselves.

So constantly watching your surroundings, never sitting with your back to the door, not striking up conversations with those on a parallel path and focusing on the approaching threats well before they get close allow you to always plan an escape, evasion and extend a safe route away well before the threat gets close enough to make actual contact.

Stay off the damn phone when in the wrong neighborhood, keep your gear stowed and keep your head up and moving with your eyeballs looking hard in all directions. In the Army we used to say "Move like you have a purpose in life". If you always look like you are ready for trouble it will often find another, easier, route.

Cops that bait Chain grabbers have to look drunk, sick and weak physically. They flash their chains, wallets and or electronics, whatever. If you constantly look alert and do not cut off your senses you make yourself a tougher target.

i used to be an instructor for a rape prevention class (usually the dummy in the red padding) but the primary instructor was an expert in several street martial arts, all of which are B.S. - useless if you are blind, or deaf to start with.

As soon as I drop another 25lbs I am going to start Krav Maga, it looks fun...

[bigb]

So constantly watching your surroundings, never sitting with your back to the door, not striking up conversations with those on a parallel path and focusing on the approaching threats well before they get close allow you to always plan an escape, evasion and extend a safe route away well before the threat gets close enough to make actual contact.

Stay off the damn phone when in the wrong neighborhood, keep your gear stowed and keep your head up and moving with your eyeballs looking hard in all directions. In the Army we used to say "Move like you have a purpose in life". If you always look like you are ready for trouble it will often find another, easier, route.


Hmm... unless I am much mistaken it's 2008, not 1943 :-D Let's not forget why we are going there at first place: to have a good time, not to recreate a World War II battle scene :D

[Box Brownie]

It's not serendipity to exapand on your statement. It's actually called situational awareness. quote]

I agree and I think one possible analogy is to mention defensive driving i.e. no matter where you are on the road (i.e like a tourist in the world) you need to continually "read" the road ahead and adjust your behaviour to ensure protection.

[quote=bigb;5025809]Hmm... unless I am much mistaken it's 2008, not 1943 :-D Let's not forget why we are going there at first place: to have a good time, not to recreate a World War II battle scene :D

Granted but the greatly expanded travel opportunities have meant that many more folk switch off their normal/natural caution when on holiday ~ a generalisation maybe but the evidence does rather speak for itself.

Having said the above - no matter how good you are at avoiding bad situations it, though I hope a low %, is still possible to be a victim. Hence the reason I called it serendipity.

:)

[bigb]

Granted but the greatly expanded travel opportunities have meant that many more folk switch off their normal/natural caution when on holiday ~ a generalisation maybe but the evidence does rather speak for itself.

Having said the above - no matter how good you are at avoiding bad situations it, though I hope a low %, is still possible to be a victim. Hence the reason I called it serendipity.

:)

I think you nailed it. "normal/natural caution" or "common sense" is what I would call for. Any army style commando tactics :D will do nothing else but ruin your vacation. Not to mention all the missed opportunities to interact with the environment and with the local people. And one thing it will definitely not do is guarantee you safety. There's always the reverse psychology side of things: the more alert and prepared you look, the more the "bad guys" would suspect you have valuables to protect. And once they decide to jump you, there's no getting away, even if you were a navy seal - you're just vastly outnumbered and outsmarted in a foreign civilian setting :lol:.

My point is that everything beyond common sense is overdoing it and it will do much more harm than good.

I think this thread is getting bloated and I feel sort of responsible for that, cause I resurrected after it was put down... sorry about that!

[tiziano]

Hmm... unless I am much mistaken it's 2008, not 1943 :-D Let's not forget why we are going there at first place: to have a good time, not to recreate a World War II battle scene :D

:D
Good point!

[tiziano]

Bump: To the original poster...

I plan on going to Florence, Italy sometime this summer...and when I finally made the decision on the trip ..I remembered reading this thread earlier this year.

I am currently looking into insuring my camera equipement and as drastic as it may sound, if Im not able to do so I probably wont go on the trip.

I know I can go w/o insurence but having that uneasy feeling in the back of my mind will prohibit me from truely enjoying the experience.

Sorry to hear about your situation, I just hope others can take it as a lesson learned without literally experiencing it for themselves.

This is really sad. Florence is a safe place, much safer then any big US city. If you give up going there for safety reasons, I guess you have to give up going almost everywhere.

[Belmondo]

This is really sad. Florence is a safe place, much safer then any big US city. If you give up going there for safety reasons, I guess you have to give up going almost everywhere.This seems a rather broad statement. Of course, we don't consider a population of 400,000 a big city in the US, but there are several similarly sized cities that are probably every bit as safe as Florence. The fact is, there are bad people everywhere, and reasonable caution should be exercised, no matter where you are.

[LBaldwin]

I am going to overlook the time frame insult and ask that you review the posts on this list that ask about specific security incidents. Folks on this list have been mugged, beaten and had gear stolen from their person, their homes and cars.

You can make your statements about preparedness not working but please remember that someone may see your advice and actully decide not to be aware, and not to prepare. There are plenty of folks that would rather fight than give up their gear after being jumped. Suprise is the first weapon that muggers and theives use to knock and keep you off balance. If you remove that tool from them, then the chance that you survive a situation and retain your gear are higher - no guarentee, just trying to tip the balance in the victims favor. I have been a victim when i was a lot younger and I decided to make sure that it never happens again, that is where i am coming from.

But please do not make me out to be a carbine carrying militant. I hung up (most) of my camo long ago.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=457312&highlight=mugged

[thekid24]

This is really sad. Florence is a safe place, much safer then any big US city. If you give up going there for safety reasons, I guess you have to give up going almost everywhere.
The only thing sad about it is that I would only be staying for a week. Where as if something is taken from around here, I have more time to look for it;) Keep that in mind.:)

[tiziano]

This seems a rather broad statement. Of course, we don't consider a population of 400,000 a big city in the US, but there are several similarly sized cities that are probably every bit as safe as Florence. The fact is, there are bad people everywhere, and reasonable caution should be exercised, no matter where you are.


I never said that Florence is a big city. I know it's a small one.
My point is simply this: if you don't go to Florence for safety reasons, then you can't go in almost any big city in the world, including the US ones.

[bigb]

This seems a rather broad statement. Of course, we don't consider a population of 400,000 a big city in the US, but there are several similarly sized cities that are probably every bit as safe as Florence. The fact is, there are bad people everywhere, and reasonable caution should be exercised, no matter where you are.

I lived in Greensboro, NC for a year. I think it's about that size or maybe a tad bigger. A friend of mine had a car accident on a street downtown, next to a convention center. I was close by so it took me about 15 min. to get there. By the time I was at the site the area around the cars was surrounded by police tape and half of the local police department was there :lol: It looked like a triple homicide scene, not like a minor accident in which nobody even got badly injured :lol:

The point is that I completely agree with you - Greensboro was so safe and peaceful that police was bored and had to find some interesting ways to kill some time. But unfortunately that's rather the exception in the US, especially in big cities. I personally am much more alert and careful when I am walking around NYC or LA than in Rome. In Italy you can get pick-pocketed or robbed. In LA you can catch a stray bullet from a nearby gang shootout :lol:

That being said, I love both cities and I would go back to both of them with all my equipment and a relaxed mind.

[bigb]

I am going to overlook the time frame insult and ask that you review the posts on this list that ask about specific security incidents. Folks on this list have been mugged, beaten and had gear stolen from their person, their homes and cars.

You can make your statements about preparedness not working but please remember that someone may see your advice and actully decide not to be aware, and not to prepare. There are plenty of folks that would rather fight than give up their gear after being jumped. Suprise is the first weapon that muggers and theives use to knock and keep you off balance. If you remove that tool from them, then the chance that you survive a situation and retain your gear are higher - no guarentee, just trying to tip the balance in the victims favor. I have been a victim when i was a lot younger and I decided to make sure that it never happens again, that is where i am coming from.

But please do not make me out to be a carbine carrying militant. I hung up (most) of my camo long ago.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=457312&highlight=mugged

The time remark was not meant to be an insult, but a harmless ironic joke. I am sorry if it offended you. I know that folks on this forum have been mugged and robbed. I also know a thing or two about that myself as I was robbed twice in the US and I had a gun put to my face in what I consider to be on of the safest countries in the world - Germany, where I currently live.

However, for everyone of us who has been attacked there are a thousand who weren't. So what's your point?! Statically that chance of being attacked while on vacation is so cosmically small that it doesn't even justify an insurance - this is the whole point of the insurance business. Of course I still think getting an insurance is probably the best safety related thing you can do, but that's beside the point.

I am not saying that people should not be aware and that they should not prepare (whatever that's supposed to mean). What I am saying is that they should not act like soldiers in a war and be constantly on the lookout for criminals, which is how you suggested they should "prepare".

I am really sorry for your negative experience and for the negative experiences of all who have been victims of physical violence. But life goes on. Getting paranoid, ruining your vacation, or even worse - not going to certain places because of minor safety issues like that is not the way to deal with it.

I have a friend who is a photojournalist and goes to hot spots around the world carrying his $25000+ equipment with him anywhere he goes. Maybe you should talk to him about safety while taking pictures :lol:

Cheers and enjoy your shooting ;)

[DocFrankenstein]

It's not serendipity to exapand on your statement. It's actually called situational awareness. One of the other posters here on the list got mugged and he saw it coming but did not recognize the ambush situation. The OP here got ambushed too. Just like downtown Baghdad without the the explosives. It could have been much worse and involved death or worse major disability.

If you are or have been trained to constantly be on guard for your safety in unfamilier situations or grounds then the potential for attack is much lower.

Attackers look for targets of opportunity that will garner them a bounty without working for it and without a serious chance of danger to themselves.

So constantly watching your surroundings, never sitting with your back to the door, not striking up conversations with those on a parallel path and focusing on the approaching threats well before they get close allow you to always plan an escape, evasion and extend a safe route away well before the threat gets close enough to make actual contact.

Stay off the damn phone when in the wrong neighborhood, keep your gear stowed and keep your head up and moving with your eyeballs looking hard in all directions. In the Army we used to say "Move like you have a purpose in life". If you always look like you are ready for trouble it will often find another, easier, route.

Cops that bait Chain grabbers have to look drunk, sick and weak physically. They flash their chains, wallets and or electronics, whatever. If you constantly look alert and do not cut off your senses you make yourself a tougher target.

i used to be an instructor for a rape prevention class (usually the dummy in the red padding) but the primary instructor was an expert in several street martial arts, all of which are B.S. - useless if you are blind, or deaf to start with.

As soon as I drop another 25lbs I am going to start Krav Maga, it looks fun...
What you're describing is called "tour of duty" not vacation.

Seriously, how can you walk around florence with sense of purpose. Just the constant distraction of having to pick up my jaw from the floor due to the amazing architecture is enough to forget all this "situational awareness".

Also there's a part of the brain that is responsible for being aware of being followed. It alerts you and gives you a "gut feeling" when someone follows you.

All of this shuts off when somebody splashes a bucket of poop on you.

[DocFrankenstein]

It's actually kinda sad too if you seriously think about it... I mean there are stereotypes and stereotypes. I am not sure which ones are more hurtful and dangerous - the ones which hold some distorted truth or the ones which are outrageously, grotesquely, blatantly wrong... But all are to some extent. I've lived in Eastern Europe for a very long time and can tell you from first hand experience that this is non-sense.
Or the ones that are right...

US claims stereotypes are wrong, and maybe it has a point, since in the melting pot the laws are different. The homogeneous parts of Europe have their own laws and some people experience the contrast.

[crosswire]

hi all
im travelling to italy and touring a bit there in october for almost 2 weeks.Im wondering since its my first time, should i take my canon 30d and cheap kit lens etc and wondering if i should risk taking it with me along with my p$s too? if ok,what lens is good for all that architecture and landscapes.I know u need a fast lens and low light lens and also is taking a camcorder worth the extra weight etc..Unless its a high definition camcorder you can do wonders with footage like that but pictures would suffice too but i also, regret when i travel, of not have the opportunity to taking nice videos etc like when u see a nice sunset or a train ride you can experience it etc.

..i can just see myself with all these bags in the town square screaming freaking TOURIST! attack!
lol

[zacker]

whats whats wrong with stereotyping??? its prolly some leftover alert system from long ago when we lived in cave, clubbed women over the heads when we wanted them and ate brontosaurous burgers.

Seriously, i dont think its stereo typing, i mean, you hear these horror stories and think... "I dont need that, Im not going" just as most folks who claim not to stereo type Will not walk through a Ghetto at night... why not? are you stereo typing?

[Roy Mathers]

What's wrong with saying 'whats' twice? What's wrong with saying 'prolly' when you mean 'probably'?:D

[zacker]

nuttin as far as i can tell.... its prolly tha same as saying "L8ter" or lol or LMAO.. ;)

as for the "whats whats?" who the heck knows?
lol

[bigb]

Seriously, i dont think its stereo typing, i mean, you hear these horror stories and think... "I dont need that, Im not going" just as most folks who claim not to stereo type Will not walk through a Ghetto at night... why not? are you stereo typing?

This is too long of a discussion to get into, but here's what I think briefly: you're comparing bananas and strawberries :-D Statistically there's a much much higher chance of getting mugged, attacked or even killed in a US ghetto (I don't think there are proper ghettos in Europe... at least in Germany the "ghettos" look like upscale neighborhoods in some other countries :-D) than in almost any place in Italy.

Please don't get so simplistic and relative about this. Hearing two similar horror stories from a ghetto and from Rome doesn't make them equally dangerous. Use your common sense.

Stereotyping refers to drawing general conclusions from an unrepresentative sample. Referring to a ghetto as a dangerous place is a statement grounded in empirical statistical research and is hence completely different.

[RSiewert]

Hi Crosswire, I was in Italy last September and loved every minute of the trip. I took my 350D and 24-105 lens and had a blast. It was always around my neck. I wouldn't hesitate to take your camera. That's what it is for. I do have insurance if something were to happen. I also kept my full compact flash cards somewhere other than in a camera bag so I wouldn't lose my pictures if something were to happen.

As to a faster lens, Yes I could have used one for inside churches but mine still did enough for me to take some really good photos. Some places you can use a tripod, some you can't.
Are you going in a group or by yourself? I went with my husband and sometimes we were with a small group of people. One couple had their passports stolen but she was carrying them in her large purse under her arm, and had the zipper behind her. She didn't feel a thing. We didn't carry them on us unless we needed them and then they were in a bag under our clothing. I never felt unsafe and we were up at 4 a.m. walking around Venice the first morning because we were still on US time. Everyone was very friendly and helpful. The trip was fantastic and I would go back in a heartbeat.

[bigb]

hi all
im travelling to italy and touring a bit there in october for almost 2 weeks.Im wondering since its my first time, should i take my canon 30d and cheap kit lens etc and wondering if i should risk taking it with me along with my p$s too? if ok,what lens is good for all that architecture and landscapes.I know u need a fast lens and low light lens and also is taking a camcorder worth the extra weight etc..Unless its a high definition camcorder you can do wonders with footage like that but pictures would suffice too but i also, regret when i travel, of not have the opportunity to taking nice videos etc like when u see a nice sunset or a train ride you can experience it etc.

..i can just see myself with all these bags in the town square screaming freaking TOURIST! attack!
lol

I was there twice with my 30D, kit lens, Nifty Fifty, 430EX mounted on the body at all times for fill flash, huge Lowepro camera backpack, laptop and a Canon P&S. And even though I am pretty big and dark and I was dressed Italian style :lol:, I still looked like a completely lost tourist and did not fit in at all. Never had any problems at all.

In fact before reading some of the stuff here I wasn't aware that people call Rome "the pickpocket capital of the world". I was being completely careless at times, taking off my backpack and setting it down next to me pretty much unattended, leaving my camera on the table at the cafe while going to the restroom, chatting with random strangers all the time etc. I even took pictures of sketchy looking types in little side streets in Florence :-D They looked like drug-dealer-hitman characters :-D Never had a single problem. Didn't lose a dime. After reading all these horror stories here I will be more careful next time. But I will still go with all my equipment and I will have a peaceful mind and a lot of fun.

The only sort of a negative experience I had was pretty much my fault. I bought some leather-binded albums at the market in Florence at a pretty low price. The guy swore that they are high quality leather and they sure looked and felt like it at the time. After taking them home, stuffing them with pictures and going through them several times, I am starting to see the cracks at the folds... I guess you get what you pay for...

On another note, I don't think you will need your camcorder... Maybe it's just me, but I don't like travel videos much unless there's something specific to show like a cultural event, a festival or something like that. Just take your camera and concentrate on capturing the spirit of the place - it's amazing!

[Roy Mathers]

You left your camera on a cafe table while you went to the loo!!! Was there anyone with you?

[Roy Mathers]

(I don't think there are proper ghettos in Europe... .


The word 'ghetto' originated in Europe;)

[bigb]

You left your camera on a cafe table while you went to the loo!!! Was there anyone with you?

Yeah, my g/f who also went to the restroom :lol: The owner was this very nice old guy so I just asked him to keep a good eye on my stuff and he did.

[bigb]

The word 'ghetto' originated in Europe;)

I am aware of that fact. So what?!

[DocFrankenstein]

I am aware of that fact. So what?!
LOL

[Roy Mathers]

Yeah, my g/f who also went to the restroom :lol: The owner was this very nice old guy so I just asked him to keep a good eye on my stuff and he did.

You were lucky to have found such a nice man.


I am aware of that fact. So what?!

I mentioned it because ghettos started in Europe and there are still plenty of 'proper' ones about.

[bigb]

LOL

Doc, I keep forgetting to let you know that I am typing this in openSuSE which kicks your Ubunto's a_s_s ;-)

[DocFrankenstein]

Doc, I keep forgetting to let you know that I am typing this in openSuSE which kicks your Ubunto's a_s_s ;-)
Interesting. Interesting.

Ubuntu is the only linux distro I've tried. How's SuSE different?

[bigb]

You were lucky to have found such a nice man.

There are plenty of nice men eveywhere in the world. You just have to have some basic people skills and (for the 78932179238719238712 time) use your common sense. I mean, what is he gonna do - steal my camera and run away from his own coffee shop?!! Come on people, get real!!!


I mentioned it because ghettos started in Europe and there are still plenty of 'proper' ones about.

I think my comment was a bit too general :-) I don't know about the UK, as I've only been to London, but in continental EU there's nothing even close to the ghettos of most major US cities. In Germany there are some dangerous places in Berlin and Frankfurt and maybe some eastern towns, but nothing really really dangerous. If you go to Eastern Europe there will definitely be places where you don't wanna go with anything valuable on you, but you still won't get shot or beaten just because you look in a certain way or just because you are a foreigner.

On the other hand there are places in the US where even the police won't go :-) So I think there's a major difference.

[bigb]

Interesting. Interesting.

Ubuntu is the only linux distro I've tried. How's SuSE different?

Actually it's not all that different, I am just pulling your leg ;-) It's a bit more stable and "polished" than Ubunto and it is definitely more versatile and functional. But it's a bit like the Canon/Nikon story - I don't think there's that much of a difference. Both are definitely leaps and bounds ahead of what, for some reason, Microsoft still keeps calling "operating system"...

If you wanna know more, you can have a look here: www.opensuse.org. You can also google some reviews. Most put openSuSE ahead of Ubunto, but as I said the difference (if there is one) is marginal.