Horror Story in Italy . . .

[stepatee]

My wife and I took a trip to Rome, Italy last week for a vacation and to take some pictures. On the last day we woke up early and headed for the train station so that we catch the train to the airport. As we walked, cameras out take pictures of McDonald signs, a fountain, etc we felt some water hit out heads. We didn't think much of it because it had rained the night before. Then we heard some in broken English say "Excuse me" -- "Stinky!" and pointed to our bags and jackets. Something that smelled terrible had been splatter all over us. He told us he knew where some water was -- and took us over to an area behind a building. We started cleaning off and the man distracted us while someone else came up behind us and stole my wife's purse and one of our camera bag (with the 30D, 24-105mm, 10-22mm, 580EX II, 30GB worth of CF cards, and spare battery.) I went to chase him down, but didn't want to leave my wife alone. I watched in disbelief as someone ran away with all my gear.

After running to the police, filing a police report, going to the embassy to get a new passport, taking a taxi to the airport, and barely catching our flight we made it back to the states. Luckily our insurance covers us outside of the United States (Farmers) and all is not lost -- but what a sinking feeling to watch your gear be stolen. (We had also copied our pictures off the cards each day to a laptop that was not stolen -- so we only lost the pictures from that morning and from Christmas which I had forgotten to copy over :()

Moral of the story -- make sure you are insured and that it is enough (we were only about $50 under our maximum allowed when carrying equipment outside our studio) -- and when in Rome, trust no one that is too nice without you asking for help!

[Maureen Souza]

Sorry about your bad experience.
When we were in Rome June 2006, we watched men walk up behind women with purses over their shoulders and reach in and steal wallets.
I am only taking my P&S when I go back to Italy in March and I wear a fanny pack with a cable lock around my waist with my Passport, Visa card and room keys in it.

[Permagrin]

wow, I'm very sorry to hear this. Glad you are both okay and glad that your insurance will cover it. But how sad to have had that happen on such a promising trip!

[delhi]

wow! that suck. went to Rome with a P&S. No problem there. I don;t like bringing along all my gear when I travel. Maybe its a good excuse to try the nikon D300? heheheheh

[stepatee]

Hadn't thought about using a cable lock! The funny thing is that we used money belts the whole trip, and just felt too comfortable as we were walking to the train station -- maybe we felt like our trip was already done?

We are very grateful that we are both safe -- it could have been a lot worse. Looking back, I think I would still take all the gear -- both my wife and I are photographers, and there is just something about a P&S that doesn't quite cut it for me -- especially when you are in a land with so many things to take pictures of! The shot posted above is an infrared shot -- my wife converted our 20D for my birthday and I had a blast learning how to take pictures in infrared (luckily it was in a small bag strapped to me!)

As for switching to the D300 -- the loss only represents a small portion of my gear, and I don't see myself switching to Nikon any time soon (although the D300 makes it tempting). A 40D or the 5D upgrade, maybe.

[ajayclicks]

Probably we could take a close look at the G9, esp given the fact that it shoots in RAW as well :)

[deadpass]

I keep hearing about stuff like that happening in italy, I really wanna go there but don't feel like getting jacked.

[shannyD]

my husband hates you now.. lol ( just kidding) he wanted to take me to italy. and now i wont go. i just got a huge case of.. EFF that im not going there now. lol.

im sorry to hear that you gear got stolen.. but im really happy to know that your insurance company came through with that.

im a wuss. i dont go to too many dangerous places anymore.

[primoz]

Sorry for being harsh now, but this is typical American. When in Rome, don't trust nice guys. :confused: Rome is not any better or worse then New York, Los Angeles, or Tokyo. There are thiefs waiting for naive people everywhere, and somewhere they don't even try to be nice, but just put gun under your face, and with bit "luck", they trigger gun first, and ask for your bag later.
My point is, that you should think a bit before you go somewhere, and such things are most common things thief do, and you are warned about exactly such happenings, in every single travel book.

[Andrushka]

Sorry for being harsh now, but this is typical American. When in Rome, don't trust nice guys. :confused: Rome is not any better or worse then New York, Los Angeles, or Tokyo. There are thiefs waiting for naive people everywhere, and somewhere they don't even try to be nice, but just put gun under your face, and with bit "luck", they trigger gun first, and ask for your bag later.
My point is, that you should think a bit before you go somewhere, and such things are most common things thief do, and you are warned about exactly such happenings, in every single travel book.

wow those are some pretty harsh words to say about someone of another nationality - especially someone who just got jacked... but i will give you the benefit of the doubt that it sounds harsher than you meant it due to English not being your first language...

Rome is a big tourist draw - there are lots of people out with cameras Im sure, which would give a feeling of safety in numbers (of tourists) - its easy to see how this happened... could have been any one of a lot of people, American or not - when its not your homeland/language/customs, etc., you are always at a disadvantage in the awareness game until you get the hang of the way things are done in the new culture you are immersing yourself in...

Please don't slam Americans as naive - not cool. I have found that most Americans who travel abroad are the least naive and most open minded of the bunch...

to OP: sorry your gear got jacked, glad you will recover the losses - did you lose all your shots on the stolen CF cards? the pics are what are irreplaceable - fortunately you can get more gear

[Cybnew]

Please don't slam Americans as naive - not cool. I have found that most Americans who travel abroad are the least naive and most open minded of the bunch...

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Primoz, he makes a good point. I can understand a lot of tourists traveling to certain places, expecting their dream vacation because that is what they were sold (by the way, I am in no way applying these comments to the original poster). As Primoz said, this could have happened anywhere, you just need to be aware of your surroundings, I have walked through some of the more unfavorable areas of San Francisco with my gear, and did so with confidence because I was aware of my surroundings. Moral of this story I guess is: Insure your gear (which the OP did), and be mindful of your surroundings.

[Andrushka]

i have travelled extensively (I am about to fill up my Passport with visa stamps for the second time) - i have travelled with and without photo gear all over the world 1st/2nd/3rd world - seen quite a bit good, bad, ugly - never lost a thing, stolen or otherwise, overpaid a time or two, but thats the worst fortunately...

Cybnew: i just said "don't slam Americans as naive..." - people of all nationalities should be aware of their surroundings at home or abroad - i don't know why you are backing Primoz - you are an American right? and you say that you take caustion and are aware of your surroundings in your own city... so you disagree with his premise about "typical Americans" - I just said it wasnt a cool thing to say about Americans - they aren't the only ones getting jacked as they tour/holiday/vacation

what about those German tourists who got targeted and killed a few years back in Miami, FL? should they be blamed and called naive? My point being (before you try to flame me) is that i dont think the OP is a "naive American tourist." AND on an open minded forum such as this with many nationalities represented i think it is out of place to call someone out in the manner Primoz did - even if the OP got taken for a ride by some slick operators in Rome.

People all over the world know Americans a mile away, so its not like you have to do anything out of the ordinary to garner attention - insiders can almost always pick out the outsiders - if they are up to no good, then its trouble for the visitor

Even i know when i walk into the Sevastopol McDonalds, for instance, when a person sitting there is British, Australian, South African, Canadian or American and even German - one can tell for quite a few reasons.

if I as an American can tell, then the locals ANYWHERE can pick a western Euro/North American out of a crowd at a 100 meters! I can pick Russian/Ukrainian people out 9 times out of 10 when i am back home in California - fortunately for them I am harmless!

so for the sake of inclusion of all nationalities on these forums - i think its a pretty legitimate request that I would like to see no nationality related slams on the forums, expecially American bashing (doesn't make much sense anyway since there are so many Americans represented here) - i am a well travelled American and i have friends of many, many races/nationalities etc. all over the world - for all the stereotypes about American tourists, those very people are probably pretty cool folks

[primoz]

I didn't say "typical American who got robbed". It's not just Americans who get robbed, everyone else does in probably same percentage too. So no, I don't think he was robbed because he was being American.
All I said was, that considering one particular city (especially pretty normal city as Rome is) as bad, is typically American. Sorry, but even on this forum, you can see this way of thinking. Just look at threads like "I'm visiting Sweden, should I bring my expensive camera gear (eos 300d) or should I rather bring my gun to protect myself from barbarians?".
Personally I was never robbed yet, and I hope it will stay like this, and I was pretty much all over the World already. But you do think a bit, and do at least some research what you do in that particular environment. And falling for such basic scam, is really not something to blame some city for, but only yourself.
Otherwise I agree, you guys are extremely open minded, probably much more then anyone else, but being open minded doesn't necessarily exclude being naive ;)

[Andrushka]

alright sounds good man - i agree though, the American folks who havent travelled do come up with some crazy questions, for instance -

my own mother in law was astounded when she saw the pics of our giant cement apartment block with real windows and balconies, high speed internet etc - she thought we lived in a hut or something, i dont even know what... haha someone asked me if we lived close to Iraq once - that was a good laugh... also i have had several aquaintances confuse "the UK" with Ukraine - i was like "oh your friend lives in London huh? well thats not really nearby or anything..."

But all that to say, yeah, everyone with a couple thousand Dollars/Euros/Pounds worth of camera gear on them better be looking over their shoulder!

[sandro9mm]

I live in Italy Milan, and things like also happen here... so whenever I'm out shooting, I always take my knife with me :) its not a big deal and I'm not gonna kill anyone, but if someone tries to take my camera I can be really mad :D

[zacker]

thats just ONE of the reasons i have no desire to ever leave the states... at least here, our crooks arent as sneaky so you can pretty much spot em a mile away..

My chief reason being, im 42 Years old and have never left the east coast..well once i went to Texas for training.. that was it. theres Waaaay too much to see and do here in the US for me to worry about going elswhere.

Glad to hear you at least were covered.. what was it that they sprayed on you?

[Alexajlex]

Sorry to hear about your incident.
I heard a very similar robbery that happened to some acquaintances in Argentina.
Someone sprayed their back pack with guacamole and then they kept pointing to the roof of a building saying it was pigeon droppings.
Then they miraculously had napkins and offered to "help"....they took all their stuff (sans passport and wallet).

In a tourist area this the chances of this happening are high no matter what country you are in.

[daleftw]

When I travel I know to take precautions. My dad manages a travel agency so I know some of their tricks. A famous one is where someone throws a baby doll at you. You, the naive tourist think "wtf baby" and go pick it up or whatever, then someone will distract you while the other makes away with all your stuff.

[Box Brownie]

A salutory reminder to be insured and savvy.

I recall being told and indeed reading that as a few posters above have stated the tourist is easy to spot and become a victim.

We have travelled many times independently and by that I mean using public transport when & where appropriate, though metered taxi's are best then second best "touristic" bus transfers and as needed hire cars from the airport location. But the thing I recall being reminded of is that it is 'how you look', basically if you do not look like an easy target the thief will pick someone else:-

1) Be confident and know where you are going - i.e. do not invite attention. Plan your route so that you do not need to ask for guidance. Ideally ensure that you are arriving & departing (with your luggage) in daylight. I suppose it helps that I have a very good sense of direction and typically only need to glance at a map for refresh as needed.

1a) On those intial periods do not use the camera ~ far too many items with and about you to keep an eye on - hmmm! a P&S is nice in the pocket maybe?

2) In crowded places aim to walk down the middle of the pavement (sidewalk) and be vigilant for any perons 'eyeing you up'. These nasty types operate in gangs and hang out repeatedly at specific locations - therefore if part of your daily routine is the same do not let your guard drop after a few days.

Oh we do like to walk when we have city breaks.

2a) Keep the minimum on display and ensure that all valuables are kept close to the body and/or on closed (zippered) bags. Shoulder bags should be carried across the chest not just slung off the shoulder. Incidently, I black over any name brands on my kit straps and bags would never use the Canon branded straps that come with the cameras.

It has often been said that when we go on holiday we leave our brains at home as far as our security is concerned. Will all the above & any other precautions you take stop you getting robbed ~ no ~ but by being carefull you reduce the possibility to the bare minimum.

For the record we have travelled in South Africa, Italy, Spain, France, Switzerland, Portugal, Ireland, Belgium, Germany, Cyprus and various island destinations and I would say we have never felt under threat.

[neilwood32]

thats just ONE of the reasons i have no desire to ever leave the states... at least here, our crooks arent as sneaky so you can pretty much spot em a mile away..

My chief reason being, im 42 Years old and have never left the east coast..well once i went to Texas for training.. that was it. theres Waaaay too much to see and do here in the US for me to worry about going elswhere.

Glad to hear you at least were covered.. what was it that they sprayed on you?

Without wanting to appear offensive, i find that attitude kind of sad. You would choose to miss out on the whole world of experiences and oportunities (thousands of years of history and architecture that simply dont exist in America) becasue there are some lowlifes out there.

I hate to say it but there are as many lowlifes in your country as there are in any oher country in the world (with a lot of them being as sneaky or more than the OP's thief). Just take a trip around any tourist trap (Miami, LA, San Fran, New York, Washington to name a few) and i will bet the police have heard of hundreds of similar cases to the OP's. During trips to the US i have actually felt more at risk than i have ever felt in Europe so i wonder what that says about America???

To the OP - sorry to hear about it and glad you were covered. I had a similar problem in Holland but it was mainly my fault as i wasnt paying attention to my surroundings, stood out like a tourist and they made of with my camera (P&S which was not insured so an expensive lesson). Needless to say if im carrying my camera now, i always try to remain aware of my circumstances.

[michaelgreen78]

I was in Tuscany in Italy 2 years ago and loved it and would recommend going to anyone who asked. It was great for photos and I never once felt threatened by anyone. Here's a link to a couple of photos from that trip:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=265083

I think that there can always be a danger of getting mugged in a great many countries, the US and UK included. I think it is just a matter of being careful and you should be ok. And being insured, of course!

[mikerault]

I have travelled to Canada, Scotland, China, Singapore, Mexico (that was just this last year) and in the past have been to Italy (6 months in Rome, a couple of weeks in Lake Como), France, England, Spain, Korea, Holland, Peru, Denmark, Mexico, Panama, Columbia, Venezuela, Argentina, Chile, several Caribbean islands and all over the USA.

I got pick pocketed the first weekend in Rome by what the locals call Gypsy Children at the Coliseum, it was the only time I have been bothered (we spoke to the Carbinerra and they got our money back within minutes) other than a sneak thief in Venezuela that took my wife’s laptop from our hotel room (old, outdated and depreciated).

As others have said, use lockable bags (even just a snap swivel works wonders) turn fanny packs toward you and wear them in front. Avoid backpacks unless they can be (and are) locked, place straps over the head, not just on the shoulder, don't walk next to the curb and always be aware of your surroundings. Watch out for groups of “poor” children as they are probably pick pockets, especially in Italy and around tourist spots all over Europe.

All that being said, I wouldn’t hesitate to go back to Italy, Loved Rome, Loved the Lakes region, Loved the Tuscany region. Usually the problem is not finding something to take a picture of, it is finding something to not take a picture of.

Mike

[transcend]

I have found that most Americans who travel abroad are the least naive and most open minded of the bunch...

I travel extensively (42 airports in 2007 alone). I have to agree with Primoz. The American "Tourists" are the most naive and uneducated masses I have run across. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but generally they fit that "American Stereotype" perfectly.

Most American's that I travel with would agree with me. Besides of course the one who decided that it was "stupid" to think that Chile had different power standards, and that his hairdryer would work just fine. He blew out the wall socket. Twice. Some people are just naive about the world, it's just how it is, it isn't an insult.

And this just highlights my point. Not to be rude, but wow. There is a lot more to see in the world than the USA. 90% of it is much more interesting to boot.

thats just ONE of the reasons i have no desire to ever leave the states... at least here, our crooks arent as sneaky so you can pretty much spot em a mile away..

My chief reason being, im 42 Years old and have never left the east coast...

[Hatch1921]

I lived in Germany for 5 years... visited Rome and many other places. I agree with this Rome is not any better or worse then New York, Los Angeles, or Tokyo. I lived in Japan as well... Tokyo is huge!

No issues anywhere I went. I would love to go back to Rome and if anyone reading this thread hasn't been and can afford to go... DO SO! I never felt unsafe or a target. I did witness a lady holding a fake baby working the bus I was on... she was tossed off when people complained she was trying to steal from them.

As mentioned... have insurance for
your equipment. Make it very hard for a theif to steal from you... locks, small protected bags...hidden money on your body... ect.

The rules should apply if you are visiting any place...especially main tourist attractions.

Originally Posted by zacker
thats just ONE of the reasons i have no desire to ever leave the states... at least here, our crooks arent as sneaky so you can pretty much spot em a mile away..

My chief reason being, im 42 Years old and have never left the east coast... It is interesting to see how people view the world. My wife and I felt safer living in Germany and on Okinawa than we do living here in Phoenix. We are headed back to Germany and I can't wait to live there again. From my perspective... crime is much higher here than where I had lived overseas.

Very nice shot Stepatee. I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience. I would be sick seeing my gear run away from me. So glad to hear you had saved all your photos on the laptop. At least the trip wasn't a complete loss. I would love to see more photos from the trip.

Happy travels all.
Hatch

[sevillafox]

It is a sucky story. But, everyone is safe with a little vigilance. I lived in Spain for 60 months without problems. I was always very aware of where my money/purse was. I did have a friend get her purse stolen as some strange little gyspy boy was trying to distract us with a card trick. Her purse was sitting at her side. Mine was clipped throuth my belt-loops and close to my body where I could touch it every few seconds. I think it's sad to discout travelling totally because of these stories. I even took 11 teenagers to Spain this spring with no problems. I gave them several tips on how to protect themselves and told them several horror stories. So, if a teenager can do it, anyone can. :)

[stepatee]

Never thought my post would bring so many comments! Looking back on the situation, my wife and I really let our guard down that last day of our trip. The whole trip I had been looking over my shoulder and suspecting everyone -- watching for all the signs that we were warned about in all the travel books. My wife wore a money belt -- except for that morning! But, everything seems different when you are in the middle of it, covered in poop (I think they just dug up some stuff in the garbage and mixed it with cookies judging from the way it dried/smelled.)

Alexajlex -- your story about your friends sounds exactly like what happened to us. He pulled out a little package of Kleenex to help us out! (Red flag #1 or was it #2,3, or 4?)

There were so many red flags that we failed to notice while it was happening -- we'll be more careful next time. I lived in Russia for two years (already been 5 years ago) and having lived outside the US I was a little more aware of what was going on around me than my wife -- this was her first time out of the country. I still can't believe that I let it happen to us!

I hope that my original post didn't seem negative towards Italy or Italians. We loved our trip. As has been mentioned here, Italy is full of so many amazing places and things to see. Most of the people we met were great and super helpful (as we do not speak Italian). We are actually planning a trip back to see other parts of Italy and Europe (when we have more time). We are just happy that we have our pictures, soon we'll have our gear back, we have our lives, and the chance to do it all again!

[stepatee]

I'll post some pictures tomorrow when I have a few minutes to get them together.

[DRBair]

I have heard of other similar scams run in Spain, where someone on a balcony will squirt mustard or another liquid onto you backpack or bags and when you take them off to remove the liquid someone comes by on a bike and grabs them and rides off. I have travelled to Europe a number of times and lived in Spain for two years and never got hit. Luckily. I had a business associates wife get pickpocketed in Las Vegas. She was wearing a fanny back and had it facing in front of her and while they were waiting to cross the street someone got her wallet out of the fanny pack.

It is difficult to always be diligent, but the successful tactics seem to invole being distracted and then getting pick pocketed or having your backpack stolen. I think it is wise to keep your distance, be aware of what is going on around you and especially overhead if there are open windows or balconies.

[transcend]

Yup, it's actually a pretty common scam worldwide.

[neilwood32]

Never thought my post would bring so many comments! Looking back on the situation, my wife and I really let our guard down that last day of our trip. The whole trip I had been looking over my shoulder and suspecting everyone -- watching for all the signs that we were warned about in all the travel books. My wife wore a money belt -- except for that morning! But, everything seems different when you are in the middle of it, covered in poop (I think they just dug up some stuff in the garbage and mixed it with cookies judging from the way it dried/smelled.)

Alexajlex -- your story about your friends sounds exactly like what happened to us. He pulled out a little package of Kleenex to help us out! (Red flag #1 or was it #2,3, or 4?)

There were so many red flags that we failed to notice while it was happening -- we'll be more careful next time. I lived in Russia for two years (already been 5 years ago) and having lived outside the US I was a little more aware of what was going on around me than my wife -- this was her first time out of the country. I still can't believe that I let it happen to us!

I hope that my original post didn't seem negative towards Italy or Italians. We loved our trip. As has been mentioned here, Italy is full of so many amazing places and things to see. Most of the people we met were great and super helpful (as we do not speak Italian). We are actually planning a trip back to see other parts of Italy and Europe (when we have more time). We are just happy that we have our pictures, soon we'll have our gear back, we have our lives, and the chance to do it all again!

Im glad it hasnt put you off - at least you guys realise that there is a heck of a lot int he rest of the world thats worth seeing unlike the person whos post i replied to!

I have to agree with some of the sentiments about some American tourists (not all i hasten to add but a significant minority) - they think that if its not done the way it is in the good ol USA then its wrong.

Enjoy your travels!

[New Hobby]

Thanks for the heads up on this kind of scam. Not sure what I would have done but now I know if it where to happen what not to do.

It is so much easier to learn from other folks then to go thought it yourself. Thanks for posting it.

[Maureen Souza]

thats just ONE of the reasons i have no desire to ever leave the states... at least here, our crooks arent as sneaky so you can pretty much spot em a mile away..

My chief reason being, im 42 Years old and have never left the east coast..well once i went to Texas for training.. that was it. theres Waaaay too much to see and do here in the US for me to worry about going elswhere.

Glad to hear you at least were covered.. what was it that they sprayed on you?
There is a huge and exciting world out there to explore, taste, see and feel. Don't hide from it..... I vary my travels from year to year, inside and outside the USA.......it is ALL amazing!

I was in Tuscany in Italy 2 years ago and loved it and would recommend going to anyone who asked. It was great for photos and I never once felt threatened by anyone.

In March I am going to Venice, Tuscany, Florence and Rome for 2 weeks with 3 of my sisters!! No tour group...we booked the trip ourselves and have included trains and tours throughout the areas. We are so excited but since 2 of us have been there before (and one of us got mugged on the bus in Naples....not me) we are very aware of how to keep ourselves and our belongings safe.

Happy travels everyone!

[CyberDyneSystems]

There is nothing national about Crime (except Switzerland where there isn't any)

I'd rather walk around in Rome with my Camera gear showing than many neighborhoods within ten miles of where I am typing.

The ONLY difference is that in my local neighborhoods I have intimate knowledge already of the risks.

The one time I was pickpocketed I was in Manhattan NY, (just three hours from where I live) and I knew it but I was 16 and was NOT about to confront the guy! :shock:
I also had many incidents of theft in my own neighborhoods growing up, 3 bicycle's stolen, and B&E into my own house.

Theft is not unique to any nation. So let's avoid the assumptions otherwise, and prevent an international incident here on POTN.

To OP, what a bummer :(

[bwolford]

thats just ONE of the reasons i have no desire to ever leave the states... at least here, our crooks arent as sneaky so you can pretty much spot em a mile away..

My chief reason being, im 42 Years old and have never left the east coast..well once i went to Texas for training.. that was it. theres Waaaay too much to see and do here in the US for me to worry about going elswhere.

Glad to hear you at least were covered.. what was it that they sprayed on you?

This is pretty funny. And it's not just because you are American. Have you been to New Yawk City? You aren't any safer there than Rome, Miami, London, etc.

Recently returned from Rome and never had a problem carrying my gear around. Constantly aware of my surroundings and when I was on the move my camera was in a bag. I felt no more in peril there than in any major city in the USA.

[rhys]

Typical story. Thieves work in gangs. One or two distract and the other makes off with a bag. An alternative - you get distracted from your bags and then somebody picks them all up and makes to run off and the others prevent you from going to get them, demanding money. You give them the money and they drop the bags and run off with your money.

I've heard and seen a lot of the street thief things. I won't say I'm an expert because there's always something new that I haven't heard of.

[JWright]

thats just ONE of the reasons i have no desire to ever leave the states... theres Waaaay too much to see and do here in the US for me to worry about going elswhere.

I'm pretty much of the same opinion, except my reasons are a bit different. I used to travel extensively in Mexico and Central America, but no more. I'm getting up in years and am more interested in traveling within the US. There are many places I visited as a child and haven't had the opportunity to see since and many places I haven't seen I'd like to visit. I have a limited travel budget and I really don't feel like spending it on travel to other parts of the world (with one exception). I'd like to visit Vietnam one more time...

[Mum2J&M]

Im glad it hasnt put you off - at least you guys realise that there is a heck of a lot int he rest of the world thats worth seeing unlike the person whos post i replied to!

I have to agree with some of the sentiments about some American tourists (not all i hasten to add but a significant minority) - they think that if its not done the way it is in the good ol USA then its wrong.

Enjoy your travels!

I've never known or met anyone like this. I would never befriend anyone like this. I'm tiring of all this over-generalization about Americans, Italians, etc. It's weird. Has this thread turned into a "my country is better than yours" thread? Give me a break. This is obviously about someone who got robbed, which sucks, no matter where the hell you live. My Mother and Grandparents got robbed outside a church about 15 minutes from where they live (a wealthy area no less). This all seems like an over-reaction to the way people "think" Americans view the rest of the world. There are so many stereotypes about people in different countries. Remember, Americans all originated elsewhere. I'm not sure where this "holier-than-thou" stereotype of Americans is coming from. I don't know a single person who fits the bill. I find it offensive. My husband was raised in England. He likes it in the States and is a dual citizen now. I was supposed to move to England before I met him, but he didn't want to. So, you see, it's not all bad!

[CyberDyneSystems]

I've never known or met anyone like this....

Oh lord, I have...

I am, was, have been very proud to be an American, but this does not alter what I have seen from us.
The American attitude towards anything foreign truly has grown worse in the last decade.
There is a term that has been around for decades "the ugly American"
We are not all that way, in fact I still like to believe it's a tiny minority, but they do exist in world travel and they are so noticeable as they stand out, demand the most and shout the loudest.
Please don't take this as anything unpatriotic, but the truth is we swear at each other all day in work and play and driving on the roads (check out the "why are people mean thread and look at some of the posts) and think nothing of it, but then if we are told we are not representing the US very well elsewhere in the world we are shocked?

There really are parts of the world where our idea of "normal" is seen as pretty shocking. All one need to do is take a New York city attitude a mere handful of miles over the State border into Southern Ontario and all of a sudden your an 8 headed hydra lose in a priory!

Obviously the same is true from the US perspective. There are people and places shocking to us, but let's not pretend that all US travelers are angels either.

[neil85]

ive done this as well. not to thread jack but i spent 5 months in monterrey mexico for work last winter. at first i carried my passport & customs papers 24/7 ... after doing that a month and getting used to always seeing cops in full body armor & m16's i got really lax and just started leaving all that stuff in the safe in the hotel room.

Hadn't thought about using a cable lock! The funny thing is that we used money belts the whole trip, and just felt too comfortable as we were walking to the train station -- maybe we felt like our trip was already done?

[neil85]

i completely agree, ive seen the "ugly american" first hand while i was in mexico. there was a contractor there with me and he fit this to a T.

he would brag about this or that and talk about how this beer isnt that expensive (speaking of guiness) but its 1 hours worth of pay to the people hes saying it to.

getting all worked up becuase the person didnt understand english.

for the first 2 months he seriously would not go out to eat on his own. he would only eat outside the hotel if i was with him. At the same time though he talked about how he had been to israel and other countries and went out all the time

it added a decent amount of comedy to the trip haha

Oh lord, I have...

I am, was, have been very proud to be an American, but this does not alter what I have seen from us.
The American attitude towards anything foreign truly has grown worse in the last decade.
There is a term that has been around for decades "the ugly American"
We are not all that way, in fact I still like to believe it's a tiny minority, but they do exist in world travel and they are so noticeable as they stand out, demand the most and shout the loudest.

[Mum2J&M]

What I was talking about was an "over-generalization" of Americans as a whole. I don't think it's fair to stereotype all Americans for being this way. Guess I'm lucky that I very rarely, if ever, run into people like this. It sounds like it comes more from being naive about other cultures. But surely this is true no matter what country you live in. There are racists, hypocrites, egomaniacs anywhere you go. I've been to Canada, England, Iceland, Japan, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Jamaica and a number of other places including many part of the US. I am lucky enough to have some diversity in my travel history. Some of us are not. I would imagine this is true in other countries with people who have "heard" things about other places, but haven't experienced them first hand. I truly don't think this is an American phenomenon. I hate to think we are all thought of as being egotistical hypocrites. It just isn't true or fair. We are human beings like everyone else on this planet.

[bwolford]

I've never known or met anyone like this. I would never befriend anyone like this. I'm tiring of all this over-generalization about Americans, Italians, etc. It's weird. Has this thread turned into a "my country is better than yours" thread? Give me a break. This is obviously about someone who got robbed, which sucks, no matter where the hell you live. My Mother and Grandparents got robbed outside a church about 15 minutes from where they live (a wealthy area no less). This all seems like an over-reaction to the way people "think" Americans view the rest of the world. There are so many stereotypes about people in different countries. Remember, Americans all originated elsewhere. I'm not sure where this "holier-than-thou" stereotype of Americans is coming from. I don't know a single person who fits the bill. I find it offensive. My husband was raised in England. He likes it in the States and is a dual citizen now. I was supposed to move to England before I met him, but he didn't want to. So, you see, it's not all bad!

I've met enough tourists, regardless of nationality, to disrepect those that seem to think that they have something over the people they are visiting. Happens everywhere, just like the crime in the OP. This isn't an anti-American, anti-Italian, or anti-anything statement. Anyone who believes the OP situation happened just because he/she was in Rome is ignorant. And if this kind of prejudice keeps you from traveling, thank God. I don't want to run into you in my travels!

We have a responsibility as visitors, to any country, to be respectful of customs of our hosts. We seem to be losing sight of that. I feebly attempt the language where ever I go and always learn please and thank you first. It's a good habit and gets you better service than the clown next to you making demands.

[neil85]

i agree, when you go outside the US to a country where english is a 2nd, 3rd or 4th language some tourists resort to fraustration & anger becuase of the language barriers.

thats how the guy i was stuck in mexico with was. he was stubborn and wouldnt learn spanish for atleast the first month we were there and he would get mad every time we went out to eat

[Mum2J&M]

Yes, but again, not ALL people do this. And, specifically, not ALL Americans. When I visited Japan, I was in awe of all those who could understand English. It was weird. I learned some of their language, but didn't need to under the circumstances. It just seems that if you are traveling to another country in the first place, you'd be going for the cultural experience as much as anything else? So why would you travel if you'd expect it to be just like home? Guess I just don't get it.

[zacker]

"Oh he wont travel".... "Oh he says theres crime" WhAAA WHAAA WHAAAAA!!!! gimmie a break... ONE reason does not many make, get it? good then get over it. yeah we got crime here....and lots of it but guess what? Like CDS says, im from here, i know it and most times i can spot it... plus i speak the language and to be quite frank, Im more comfortable here in my own place... besides, i dont have the $$$ to be flying all over and not to mention all the extra pollution caused by unnessacary travelling. So, yeahid like to see rome.. but guess what? If i dont, I dont cause, Id also like to see the grand canyon, hollywood, Mt rushmoor, the hoover dam, the utah desert, Washington, olympia... Hell, even Washington DC!!! like i said, theres just way too much here for me to see, Im not gonna worry about traveling!!!

[Mum2J&M]

Funny, just happened to catch this story on Yahoo after reading this thread again...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080105/ap_on_bi_ge/mexico_frightened_tourists

[Mum2J&M]

I also think Americans wind up looking out of the oridnary in other places and become targets. Just as foreigners here look out of place and become targets. It can be difficult to "fit in" when one has never visited a destination before, etc. And sometimes there is only so much you can do to protect yourself from that without completely ruining your vacation.

[mellowd]

I've had stuff stolen and it really sucks. You lucky to have good insurance though!

[rhys]

When visiting a foreign country, try to look like the locals. If that involves buying secondhand clothes in a secondhand clothes shop there then do so. How you look is what attracts as well as what you do. Somebody walking with a map in their hand is obviously unfamiliar with the place. Talk quietly if you must talk. Just don't draw attention to yourselves. That's the way to slip through countries un-noticed by thieves etc.

In my past, when I worked out in the former USSR I had occasion to slip out of various former soviet countries unnoticed and without the correct papers. In fact several people I know have been in the same boat. Act like a local :D

[mellowd]

Problem is, no matter how you're dressed you're going to look like a tourist with a big slr around your neck (even in your own country)

[rhys]

Problem is, no matter how you're dressed you're going to look like a tourist with a big slr around your neck (even in your own country)

I have seen photojournalists working in the Baltics. Generally they have 2 - 3 big burly bodyguards with them.

[arumdevil]

Nasty story. I was in Rome in April last year with my girlfriend. I didn't bring a camera but she brought her brand new P&S and it got nicked out of her bag on the metro. When we left to go to the airport - on the metro again, we saw a guy who was blatantly sizing people up for pick-pocketing. We were very on the ball with this by that point. Good your insurance covered it.

[slimninj4]

I am always paranoid when traveling. I keep my bags locked and tiny travel locks even when carrying around during the day. Since I use sling type gear I keep it close to my hands too.

Horrible experience and I know what the feeling is though.

[rhys]

Bag slashers can be defeated by simple chicken wire inside your bags.

[Roy Mathers]

My chief reason being, im 42 Years old and have never left the east coast..well once i went to Texas for training.. that was it. theres Waaaay too much to see and do here in the US for me to worry about going elswhere.



Now THAT is typically American!;)

[New Hobby]

Bag slashers can be defeated by simple chicken wire inside your bags.

Airport security must love those bags. ;-)

[belmondo]

Now THAT is typically American!;)Unfortunate stereotyping. Wot?

[JeffreyG]

I've travelled a lot, and unless you are really dedicated it is about impossible to appear as a local.

OTOH, I've had motorists stop and ask me for directions in Germany.

Two contrasts:
In Paris I had some children trying to work me over. Two were ducking a weaving in front of me for distraction while another was sidling up behind. I knew what was coming and was preparing to take action when a Parisian intervened. Old guy laid into the kids with his cane and drove them off. Merci beaucoup.

In downtown Tokyo one night I was looking at a full bike rack thinking something looked wrong. Then it hit me. No locks on any of the bikes.

One more from Tokyo. A colleague dropped his wallet near Shinjuku station getting out of a cab and never noticed the loss until the next morning. He went to the concierge who directed him to the nearest police station. Someone had turned his wallet in with the cash still in it.

[Roy Mathers]

Unfortunate stereotyping. Wot?

What I meant was that, although reliable figures are difficult to get, statistics show that anywhere between 75% and 90% of Americans do not own passports (http://www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2003/01/31/how_many_america.php) and they are not noted for being great world travellers. The post I commented on seems to sum up the attitude of a lot of Americans of my aquaintance (and I holiday there every year).

[BeccaNH]

What I meant was that, although reliable figures are difficult to get, statistics show that anywhere between 75% and 90% of Americans do not own passports (http://www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2003/01/31/how_many_america.php) and they are not noted for being great world travellers. The post I commented on seems to sum up the attitude of a lot of Americans of my aquaintance (and I holiday there every year).

That is very true. A big difference however is that the US is a very large country with a lot to see without ever leaving it's boundaries. For us, driving from state to state is much like driving from country to country in Europe (without the language difficulties!) I have had a passport since I was 17 years old and have done quite a bit of travelling, but I am in the minority. My 70 year old mother just got her first passport a couple of years ago in order to take a cruise (previously all we needed was a birth certificate and photo id to re-enter the country).

Although I do enjoy travelling to other countries, I can understand not needing to leave the US in order to see fantastic sites. It's a beautiful country!

[misfit]

I've travelled a lot, and unless you are really dedicated it is about impossible to appear as a local.

To true, notably, most of the English tourists i have spotted in the states in the last 10 years that i have been visiting, have been sporting "ENGLAND" football shirts, t-shirts or vests. The Scots wear "SCOTLAND". Then, there are the others who wear another random countries name emblazoned across their fronts, its all very confusing:confused:

regards

[JeffreyG]

To true, notably, most of the English tourists i have spotted in the states in the last 10 years that i have been visiting, have been sporting "ENGLAND" football shirts, t-shirts or vests. The Scots wear "SCOTLAND". Then, there are the others who wear another random countries name emblazoned across their fronts, its all very confusing:confused:

regards

My northern european ancestry lets me blend in if I want in a few countries, but nobody has ever mistaken me for a native in Tokyo.

They do tend to assume I'm Australian since there are so many Aussies running around in Japan.

I can't even blend in when in Italy.

[LBaldwin]

I think that the OP just taught all of us a valuable lesson!! I would like to thank him and the other posters very much.
Diversion is an interesting tactic, here in the US nothing is as sophisticated. Not sure about carrying a weapon, that can cause more
issues than it solves unles you are well trained to use it. Remember a weapon can be removed from and used against you.

Les

[Roy Mathers]

That is very true. A big difference however is that the US is a very large country with a lot to see without ever leaving it's boundaries. For us, driving from state to state is much like driving from country to country in Europe (without the language difficulties!) I have had a passport since I was 17 years old and have done quite a bit of travelling, but I am in the minority. My 70 year old mother just got her first passport a couple of years ago in order to take a cruise (previously all we needed was a birth certificate and photo id to re-enter the country).

Although I do enjoy travelling to other countries, I can understand not needing to leave the US in order to see fantastic sites. It's a beautiful country!

What you say is true Becca, but there is beauty elsewhere in the world that you can't see in the US. America is a beautiful country and there is undoubtedly a lot see, but I wouldn't say there is no need to leave the US to see other fantastic sights. As I said in a previous post, I holiday there every year (in fact, I've been to all fifty states) - but I still enjoy going to other countries. Once in Las Vegas, I heard an American saying to his wife, after visiting The Venetain, "That was great - now we don't have to visit Venice!" - and he was serious. That might be an all-too-common American attitude!

[BeccaNH]

What you say is true Becca, but there is beauty elsewhere in the world that you can't see in the US. America is a beautiful country and there is undoubtedly a lot see, but I wouldn't say there is no need to leave the US to see other fantastic sights. As I said in a previous post, I holiday there every year (in fact, I've been to all fifty states) - but I still enjoy going to other countries. Once in Las Vegas, I heard an American saying to his wife, after visiting The Venetain, "That was great - now we don't have to visit Venice!" - and he was serious. That might be an all-too-common American attitude!

I agree! I never intended to mean that there was nothing worth seeing outside of the US. There are so many incredible places to see in the world, I personally can't imagine never leaving the US to see as many of them as possible. But, I know that many people don't feel the need to leave the US as there is so much to see here. I was just playing devil's advocate and trying to understand the other point of view.

Happy travels!

[Roy Mathers]

Thank you - and you!

[belmondo]

What I meant was that, although reliable figures are difficult to get, statistics show that anywhere between 75% and 90% of Americans do not own passports (http://www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2003/01/31/how_many_america.php) and they are not noted for being great world travellers. The post I commented on seems to sum up the attitude of a lot of Americans of my aquaintance (and I holiday there every year).

There really is a wide range of things to see here on our own continent, and while getting to some of them can be a major undertaking, it's still a lot easier than all the hassle of international travel. One major difference between the US and many other nations is that we get much less vacation time on average. It is really difficult to plan a major trip to Europe, for example, with only two weeks in which to do it. The other factor is cost, and with the declining dollar, it's only getting worse.

I live in Southern California. Within a days' drive, I have access to the Pacific Ocean, the Sierra-Nevada Mountains, The Rocky Mountains, the grand Canyon, Disneyland, world-class shopping, 5-star hotels and dining, Las Vegas (ugh), Giant Redwood forests, skiing (in season), you name it.

I'm not xenophobic, but I really do feel there's enough to do here. When time and money allows, I would love to go to Europe and Asia again. I have a passport, and it's up-to-date. In the meantime, I don't feel at all deprived.

[neil85]

i personally feel that i need to start gambling & playing the lottery as i need a large chunk of money so i can just travel the rest of my life haha.

at 22 yrs old, that chunk of money would have to be HUGE for me to afford to just travel but i would much rather be seeing as much as i can around the world then i could see here in the states.

theres plenty of cool places but the culture is essentially the same no matter where you go. plus our history isnt that old compared to other parts of the world.

go to monterrey mx and the part of town thats 400 yrs old with cobble stone streets is cool to walk around during the day, then you go back at night and all the buildings are open and are bars. it takes the saying "day & night difference" literal

id rather start with 3rd world countries though. why? because it is something WAY out of spectrum of things that can be seen in the US and is something that will take you the furthest out of "you element"

[rhys]

Remember a weapon can be removed from and used against you.
Les

That's a fallacy often given by anti-self-defence groups. A weapon can only be taken from somebody unwilling to use it to defend themselves.

[Roy Mathers]

theres plenty of cool places but the culture is essentially the same no matter where you go. plus our history isnt that old compared to other parts of the world.



With those two statements, you have demonstrated just how much you need to travel, my friend;)

[mellowd]

One of the best reasons to travel is to see other people and cultures, not just other beatiful places. It's amazing how different everything is when you go from Africa, to the middle east, to every country in Europe. This is one of the biggest attractions for me when I travel

[tiziano]

Not sure about carrying a weapon, that can cause more
issues than it solves unles you are well trained to use it. Remember a weapon can be removed from and used against you.
Les
Not only this. Even if you are able to defend yourself, you will still go through a lot of troubles here in Italy: here you can't carry a weapon, nor can you harm anyone for defending your belongings. Self defense applies only to persons, not to things.

[JeffreyG]

Remember a weapon can be removed from and used against you.
Les

Most importantly, any and all weapons on the list will be removed from you in security before you board the airplane.

[tiziano]

When visiting a foreign country, try to look like the locals. If that involves buying secondhand clothes in a secondhand clothes shop there then do so.

Mhhh...
Not to be offensive, but I don't think this will work. People from different cultures not only have different look or clothes, but different expressions, ways of moving and so on...
I can pick up an American tourist here in Rome from 30 meters.
Oh, and I have never seen a secondhand clothes shop here in Italy... :)

[LBaldwin]

That's a fallacy often given by anti-self-defence groups. A weapon can only be taken from somebody unwilling to use it to defend themselves.

Rhys,

I spent quite a bit of time with some friendly chaps just north of you at Ft Bragg. You learn quite a bit stationed there, one of which is how to disarm others meaning to do you a dirty deed. You learn quickly the best defense is a good offense including how to disarm the other guy. All I am saying is if you pull a weapon you had better be prepared to
A. Use it with a great level of profeciency
b. Be prepared that it may be used agaisnt you. The other guy may be tougher, faster and younger as well as smarter.
c. Learn how to run like hell if needed.

The first thing they teach you is, there is always someone faster, better and deadlier than you are.

What you may see but have yet to comment on is the fact that the OP got suckered, and suckered good. They just as easily could have shot or stabbed them, took all their stuff and left them for dead. Or worse killed him and done god knows what with her. Forced white slavery is very popular in many areas of the world and she would be just another missing person, until found.

I am in the process of planning for a month long trip to Scotland, I will plug in security and safety just like always.

Les

[belmondo]

I can pick up an American tourist here in Rome from 30 meters.
That's quite an accomplishment. I'd love to know how you do that. Sight? Sound? Smell?

[Roy Mathers]

Rhys,

I spent quite a bit of time with some friendly chaps just north of you at Ft Bragg. You learn quite a bit stationed there, one of which is how to disarm others meaning to do you a dirty deed. You learn quickly the best defense is a good offense including how to disarm the other guy. All I am saying is if you pull a weapon you had better be prepared to
A. Use it with a great level of profeciency
b. Be prepared that it may be used agaisnt you. The other guy may be tougher, faster and younger as well as smarter.
c. Learn how to run like hell if needed.

The first thing they teach you is, there is always someone faster, better and deadlier than you are.

What you may see but have yet to comment on is the fact that the OP got suckered, and suckered good. They just as easily could have shot or stabbed them, took all their stuff and left them for dead. Or worse killed him and done god knows what with her. Forced white slavery is very popular in many areas of the world and she would be just another missing person, until found.

I am in the process of planning for a month long trip to Scotland, I will plug in security and safety just like always.

Les


Wow, you are a cheerful little chap aren't you?;)

[tiziano]

That's quite an accomplishment. I'd love to know how you do that. Sight? Sound? Smell?

Please be sure that I don't want to offend anybody. It's just a fact. The American average person looks different, dresses different, talks different, moves different from the average Italian, German, French or British guy.
I have been in US enough times, to have learnt how to recognize an American guy in a group of ten.
I am sure that if you had been in Italy long enough, you could do the same: spotting the Italian guy in a crowd.
And consider that I don't spend all my time close to the Colosseum, looking for targets, as this scum does.

[belmondo]

Please be sure that I don't want to offend anybody. It's just a fact. The American average person looks different, dresses different, talks different, moves different from the average Italian, German, French or British guy.
I have been in US enough times, to have learnt how to recognize an American guy in a group of ten.
I am sure that if you had been in Italy long enough, you could do the same: spotting the Italian guy in a crowd.
And consider that I don't spend all my time close to the Colosseum, looking for targets, as this scum does.

so the floral shirts and baseball caps with the US Flag on it are a dead giveaway?

[tiziano]

so the floral shirts and baseball caps with the US Flag on it are a dead giveaway?

And the Ferrari too...

Wait... that's Tom Selleck... :D

[Mum2J&M]

Well, England and Europe are much closer together than they are to the States. So go figure.

[Mum2J&M]

My husband said when he moved here from England in the mid to late 80s, he expected it all to be like California - like what he saw on TV. I'm sure it was a disappointment when the company he was working for was located in Waterbury, Connecticut. No offense against CT, but just goes to show things aren't always what they seem...

[Roy Mathers]

Please be sure that I don't want to offend anybody. It's just a fact. The American average person looks different, dresses different, talks different, moves different from the average Italian, German, French or British guy.
I have been in US enough times, to have learnt how to recognize an American guy in a group of ten.
I am sure that if you had been in Italy long enough, you could do the same: spotting the Italian guy in a crowd.
And consider that I don't spend all my time close to the Colosseum, looking for targets, as this scum does.


But it's not only Americans that use the word 'different' when it should be 'differently'.:D

[BeccaNH]

But it's not only Americans that use the word 'different' when it should be 'differently'.:D

:lol: There goes one "tell" out the window! :lol:

[Roy Mathers]

Out of the window Becca!:D

[belmondo]

But it's not only Americans that use the word 'different' when it should be 'differently'.:DAt least we know how to spell humor.;)

[BeccaNH]

Out of the window Becca!:D

Smarty pants! :D

[tiziano]

But it's not only Americans that use the word 'different' when it should be 'differently'.:D

:oops:
Sorry for the mistake... but I should be forgiven: English is not my primary language. :)
Thanks for correcting me. I'll try to remember to use the adverb.

[BeccaNH]

:oops:
Sorry for the mistake... but I should be forgiven: English is not my primary language. :)
Thanks for correcting me. I'll try to remember to use the adverb.

I'm sure that there are some in England that would argue that English is not most American's first language either! :D (I have good friends in England that correct me constantly!)

[tiziano]

Well, England and Europe are much closer together than they are to the States. So go figure.

Mhhh... Maybe I was not clear. I didn't mean that US people look different from European people. I meant that average US, English, French, German and Italian people all look different.

[Roy Mathers]

Smarty pants! :D

:D:D

[Mum2J&M]

Yes. We all sound different as well. ;)

To the Brit above - I'm sure not EVERYONE in England speaks English perfectly. I know my husband doesn't. :p

[Roy Mathers]

:oops:
Sorry for the mistake... but I should be forgiven: English is not my primary language. :)
Thanks for correcting me. I'll try to remember to use the adverb.

My friend, all I can say is that you speak English better than I speak Italian!;)

[DDA]

There is nothing national about Crime (except Switzerland where there isn't any)

:rolleyes: Switzerland is not different from the rest of the world.... :rolleyes:

[zacker]

Now THAT is typically American!;)


I think not..... if you botherd to read the older posts where i flamed for saying basically, I LOVE MY CONUTRY and dont feel the need to travel to others countries... and not bacause i dont like them, its because i havent seen even a 1/4 of what I have in my own country...

Stereo typer!!!


lol.

[zacker]

you could do the same: spotting the Italian guy in a crowd.




lol.... good one..

And I AM Italian!

[zacker]

My husband said when he moved here from England in the mid to late 80s, he expected it all to be like California - like what he saw on TV. I'm sure it was a disappointment when the company he was working for was located in Waterbury, Connecticut. No offense against CT, but just goes to show things aren't always what they seem...


Whats wrong with Waterbury???



(well, I should ask, whats wrong with Waterbury that i DONT already know about?...lol)

[Box Brownie]

Ref: The English language ~ it has often been said that we (the UK and the USA) are two nations divided by one language. The problem is that it is sometimes difficult to say which language:lol:

[rhys]

My wife's business partner is a big burly rugby player and former soldier. He got mugged in Charleston by a gang of 6 - 8 children aged 8 - 11. They came at him from all directions!

[CyberDyneSystems]

:rolleyes: Switzerland is not different from the rest of the world.... :rolleyes:

You missed the poking fun at steroetypes I'm afraid..

Even so, I beg to differ :)
All the World is different from the rest of the world.

[DDA]

You missed the poking fun at steroetypes I'm afraid..

Even so, I beg to differ :)
All the World is different from the rest of the world.

Don't worry, I got it, I just wanted to emphasize that Switzerland isn't safer as the rest of the world, it's just tastier (due to chocolate) :p

[rhys]

Don't worry, I got it, I just wanted to emphasize that Switzerland isn't safer as the rest of the world, it's just tastier (due to chocolate) :p

Hmm. No chocolate can be worse than US chocolate. I grew up on British chocolate then found Belgian chocolate. In terms of chocolate I have tried it from:
Belgium, Germany, Russia, Latvia, USA, Switzerland, Sweden, Britain and Holland. The best chocolate is probably German. The worst is definitely US. A generally decent chocolate is British - unless it's a British brand made in Russia in which case it's awful. Russian chocolate is pretty good though.

[zacker]

Hmm. No chocolate can be worse than US chocolate. I grew up on British chocolate then found Belgian chocolate. In terms of chocolate I have tried it from:
Belgium, Germany, Russia, Latvia, USA, Switzerland, Sweden, Britain and Holland. The best chocolate is probably German. The worst is definitely US. A generally decent chocolate is British - unless it's a British brand made in Russia in which case it's awful. Russian chocolate is pretty good though.


One word... Godiva... I will challenge ANY other chocolate company to put up their best against it.. lol

[belmondo]

The worst is definitely US.

If you're defining all U.S. chocolate by products from Hershey, Nestle, etc., you're right, but you're not eating the right stuff. Not that you're prone to such things, but your statement is a bit overly-broad.:rolleyes::lol:

[Box Brownie]

I think I start to detect 'hints' of a pi$$$$g contest by small boys against a 6ft wall.

I would hope that wherever we are in the world without exception (?) there good & bad folk, those that are intolerant & those that very forgiving.....in other words think of a "pro" & a "con" and each of our countries have a little of both. But as for the food, well again wherever 'we' go we will all have the chance to taste the best & the worst - get the idea.

As for the the poster (sorry, missed his nick) that has the whole USA for his lifetime to see well I can see his point of view but for myself it was once said to me that in our adult lives we get 40 main holidays and yes I could spend every one of them in the UK and still not see all of our modestly sized nation but while I am reasonably healthy and have some money to go abroad I would rather do that because to have memories of other places and cultures will be a thing to treasure in my dotage.

Just my added 2p's worth :)

[Mum2J&M]

Cadbury in England is ten times better than Cadbury in the US. Hershey is just like chalk. What I don't get, however, is why there are so many Cadbury machines in the Underground and not a drop of water to be found... especially when it's about a thousand degrees in the summer with no air conditioning and, in some cases, not much deodorant being used. LOL. ;)

[mellowd]

Cadbury in England is ten times better than Cadbury in the US. Hershey is just like chalk. What I don't get, however, is why there are so many Cadbury machines in the Underground and not a drop of water to be found... especially when it's about a thousand degrees in the summer with no air conditioning and, in some cases, not much deodorant being used. LOL. ;)

too true, you can get cokes and sweets, but not water :(

[CyberDyneSystems]

One word... Godiva... I will challenge ANY other chocolate company to put up their best against it.. lol

I hear you Zacker, but Godiva is/was Belgian :)
It was solely European from the 1920's until 1960's when it first expanded to the US.


If you're defining all U.S. chocolate by products from Hershey, Nestle, etc., you're right, but you're not eating the right stuff. Not that you're prone to such things, but your statement is a bit overly-broad.:rolleyes::lol:

Too true.
for the US it's tough as we do have the worlds worst chocolate here in the mass markets, but this does not mean it's all bad by far.
In fact some of the higher end stuff is really world class. Ghirardelli for instance, from Californaia (though not a particular favorite of mine)

But IMHO even better than anything Godiva, is Lake Champlain
http://www.lakechamplainchocolates.com
If you have not tried it,. I beg you to give them a try! Amazing stuff. Go for the Truffles!

[tiziano]

But as for the food, well again wherever 'we' go we will all have the chance to taste the best & the worst - get the idea.

Very true for everything... but food!

Best food in the world is here in Italy! :p

Ok... now you can kill me! :D

[Box Brownie]

Very true for everything... but food!

Best food in the world is here in Italy! :p

Ok... now you can kill me! :D

Ah, for the record I have had wonderful food in Italy from the Lakes to Tuscany sadly I was not equaly impressed in Sicily but that trip was a long time ago so my memory may be clouded. Equally in France, Spain, Portugal, Reunion, South Africa, Jamaica.........everywhere we have been I had meals of great interest and enjoyment including the liqiud beverages that accompanied them.

Talking of Italian food, I recall most warmly Calzone Pizza and Wild Boar not on the same area or holiday I hasten to add. And as for Italian icecream.....ahhhh! :lol:;) Food for me is like music I know what like once I have listened to/tasted it.

[_aravena]

Too many pages to read, but that's not much of a horror story. That's just another day in Italia. Living there you learn. No worries about getting killed in a dark alley, unless the mob has a drive by, but you will get mugged.

[belmondo]

Very true for everything... but food!

Best food in the world is here in Italy! :p

Ok... now you can kill me! :DI'll grant you that the best Italian food is probably in Italy.

[bwolford]

Very true for everything... but food!

Best food in the world is here in Italy! :p

Ok... now you can kill me! :D

I can agree that in all my travels to about 8-10 countries (I've lost count, I didn't even count Canada - no offense my Canadian friends), Italy does have wonderful food!!! I'm sure there are others with great food, but I enjoyed the experience there the most.

[tiziano]

Thanks Brice!
I needed some help!

[stepatee]

Wow -- this thread sure has sparked some debate!

I would have to agree that some of the best food I have had (at least lately) was in Italy. Didn't each much chocolate -- but what I had was very good. I already miss the ice cream and cannoli :)

There have been a lot of good tips on traveling here -- thank you all for your responses. The insurance claim was mush easier than expected and we should receive the check in the next couple of days (the money has already been spent of course on new gear -- will update signature when it all arrives :)) Now all we have to do is worry about identity theft (we are working on protection in the that area right now!)

[Andrushka]

haha, Chocolate?? in the average Ukrainian mini-mart type store we have as many options for chocolate as we do vodka, and as might guess thats quite a lot!!! In Ukraine it is culturally standard to take chocolate as a gift whenever you visit someone elses home... in fact Ukrainians are so in love with chocolate that you can even bribe officials with chocolate! haha, its funny but its real!

oh yeah, Ukrainian chocolate is yummy, but typing out Ukrainian brand names probably wouldnt do much good here, but Korona and Roshen both make some good stuff

[DocFrankenstein]

If you're defining all U.S. chocolate by products from Hershey, Nestle, etc., you're right, but you're not eating the right stuff. Not that you're prone to such things, but your statement is a bit overly-broad.:rolleyes::lol:
Which are the good ones?

I've only seen the good ones from europe, but I never went out to find "good american chocolate"

haha, Chocolate?? in the average Ukrainian mini-mart type store we have as many options for chocolate as we do vodka, and as might guess thats quite a lot!!! In Ukraine it is culturally standard to take chocolate as a gift whenever you visit someone elses home... in fact Ukrainians are so in love with chocolate that you can even bribe officials with chocolate! haha, its funny but its real!

oh yeah, Ukrainian chocolate is yummy, but typing out Ukrainian brand names probably wouldnt do much good here, but Korona and Roshen both make some good stuff
What's funny is how you dispute american stereotypes of a naive tourist and then go on to paint ukrainians as a vodka loving country with bribed officials.

It would be nice if you could either accept stereotypes or reject them... cause it's inconsistent.

[zacker]

well all i can say is ..... whos got the Resses Peanut butter cup?? you can keep all yer fancy-girly chcoclates... just gimmie A PB cup and im good..lol

[peterpogi2006]

hahaha, got held-up/mugged in one european country years ago by two young punks with knives... then got locked in jail for the night ,coz i beat the cr@p out of them!!!! go figure!!

[Maureen Souza]

The BEST chocolates I have ever eaten anywhere! Seriously.

Go forthe sea-salted caramels and any of the truffles. Mmmmmmm!
http://www.pishpish.com/index.html

[Andrushka]

Which are the good ones?

I've only seen the good ones from europe, but I never went out to find "good american chocolate"


What's funny is how you dispute american stereotypes of a naive tourist and then go on to paint ukrainians as a vodka loving country with bribed officials.

It would be nice if you could either accept stereotypes or reject them... cause it's inconsistent.

wo!! hold on there, i beg to differ! haha... i don't think i sterotyped at all... i made a few observations from my own experiences - that there is IN FACT a lot of vodka on the shelves of every mini-mart, and there is practically as much chocolate! i did not say anything about what the local people do with these items - and yes i do have a friend who actually bribed an airline employee with chocolate - so no overgeneralizations or stereotypes typed or implied - sorry if you took it in such a manner - i originally disputed a poster using the term "typical naive American tourist" or something close to that... i never ever typed "vodka drinking, chocolate eating, official bribing Ukrainians," did i? not so much...

sorry if i appeared double minded, i meant nothing of the sort and i tried to type in a manner consistent with my earlier post - but ironically you wanted to target me when i made a statement about Ukrainian chocolate, of which i am very familiar, and yet several other posters made very generalized comments about European chocolate or the lack of good chocolate in America, etc... i just thought it was a fun post to add my own experience to, and experience not shared by many... so whatever...

[rhys]

The best Vodka is Kristal and the best chocolate in the whole of the former USSR is Laima. And by the way белый аист is the best cognac I have ever tasted.

[narlus]

Unfortunate stereotyping. Wot?


stereotyping maybe, but there's more than a grain of truth to it. what's the percentage of americans w/ passports, as compared to other western countries?

it'd be even tinier if having one to visit canada or mexico wasn't made a requirement recently.



to the OP, that's a sad story to hear. in '06 i went to rome and i carried around my lowe minitrekker w/ camera and 3-4 lenses for a week, pretty much everywhere i went; never had a problem. i would not let your tale discourage prospective travellers, as rome was a beautiful city with loads to offer. it is a good cautionary tale about keeping wits about you.

edit - obviously a lot has already been said by others, as i read further into the post. this one (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showpost.php?p=4642742&postcount=71) said it nicely.

belmondo, re: italian food....i've had amazing food in Rome and Siena, but swear that Berlin has better Italian food than Florence. :lol:

[squashed]

Thanks Narlus, Im going to Rome in September with my Lowepro attached to my back at all times. I personally would never let these sad stories keep me from doing what I love to do, but its just a reminder to be aware of your surroundings at all times. I am one of those americans with a passport...lol

[belmondo]

Thanks Narlus, Im going to Rome in September with my Lowepro attached to my back at all times. I personally would never let these sad stories keep me from doing what I love to do, but its just a reminder to be aware of your surroundings at all times. I am one of those americans with a passport...lolWow! According to some people, you don't exist.;)

Have a great trip. Take pictures and post them here.

[zacker]

I dont own a passport... do i need one??
lol
(seriously)

[narlus]

can a mod change zacker's custom title to 'xenophobe'?

[rhys]

belmondo, re: italian food....i've had amazing food in Rome and Siena, but swear that Berlin has better Italian food than Florence. :lol:


According to an opera-singer friend of the family, the water in Florance tastes horrible - as if it's straight from the latrine!

[Nortelbert]

The BEST chocolates I have ever eaten anywhere! Seriously.

Go forthe sea-salted caramels and any of the truffles. Mmmmmmm!
http://www.pishpish.com/index.html

This guy's made a name for himself...

http://www.bernardcallebaut.com/users/folder.asp

You'll have to come to Calgary to see his main bakery (Chocolaterie?) though.

[tiziano]

According to an opera-singer friend of the family, the water in Florance tastes horrible - as if it's straight from the latrine!

First time I hear this...
........
that somebody drinks water in Florence...
I believe that in Tuscany it's mandatory to drink wine!
:D

[rhys]

First time I hear this...
........
that somebody drinks water in Florence...
I believe that in Tuscany it's mandatory to drink wine!
:D

My friend lives in Via Dei Serpenti :p

[Roy Mathers]

According to an opera-singer friend of the family, the water in Florance tastes horrible - as if it's straight from the latrine!

I've drunk plenty of water in Florence, and it tasted the same as anywhere else.

[antonello]

Sorry for being harsh now, but this is typical American. When in Rome, don't trust nice guys. :confused: Rome is not any better or worse then New York, Los Angeles, or Tokyo. There are thiefs waiting for naive people everywhere, and somewhere they don't even try to be nice, but just put gun under your face, and with bit "luck", they trigger gun first, and ask for your bag later.
My point is, that you should think a bit before you go somewhere, and such things are most common things thief do, and you are warned about exactly such happenings, in every single travel book.

and what kind of comment was that? Americans? Oh my...

there is not much you can do, regardless of your nationality. Look, they were professionals in the case of the OP, and rest assured that if they will spot you they will rob you. No questions.

The problem is the Police (in Rome) not doing enough. I was born in Italy (Florence) and I know how it goes over there. But I live in NYC and I see how it goes over here. It depends on the Police efficiency. They (the cops) know very well how to spot that kind of bastards. Problem is that if they don't patrol then.. well.. bad things will happen.

Now either you know what are you talking about or you better don't say anything.

[stepatee]

A few pictures from our trip . . .

In the first you can see my wife standing by the pillar. We are in the Sistine Chapel in the second -- it was sooooo crowded (but amazing!).

Both shots were taken in Infrared with the EF-S 10-22mm.

[tiziano]

The Pantheon!

Nice!

Here below a couple of shots of the pantheon, outside and inside.

I just can't resist.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Which are the good ones?

I've only seen the good ones from europe, but I never went out to find "good american chocolate"



I refer you back to my previous post, Lake Champlain..
http://www.lakechamplainchocolates.com/

the best I've had from any continent.

Oh and FYI, I'm Swiss,... we know a thing or two about Chocolate :)


(there go those stereotypes again,.. should i mention watches, 400 years of democracy, and the cuckoo clock? )

[stepatee]

Great shots -- the inside of the Pantheon was amazing!

[CyberDyneSystems]

Nice pics stepatee & Tiziano.. I so wan't to go!
My Father went with some friends recently, he was sooo happy for months after!

[rhys]

I refer you back to my previous post, Lake Champlain..
http://www.lakechamplainchocolates.com/

the best I've had from any continent.

Oh and FYI, I'm Swiss,... we know a thing or two about Chocolate :)


(there go those stereotypes again,.. should i mention watches, 400 years of democracy, and the cuckoo clock? )

Lindt and Suchard :D

[tiziano]

Nice pics stepatee & Tiziano.. I so won't to go!
My Father went with some friends recently, he was sooo happy for months after!

Thanks! :D

Let me know if you decide to come over. I'll show you around happily.

[tiziano]

Great shots -- the inside of the Pantheon was amazing!

Thanks!

yes, especially the dome.
Here it is, the world biggest dome for 15 centuries, I believe.

[narlus]

since we're comparing ocula....from '06

http://narlus.zenfolio.com/img/v0/p1026257003.jpg

btw, did you get the hairy eyeball for using yr camera in the sistine chapel?

[gospastic]

what a crazy story. in 2006 i went to italy twice, for 2 months and then back again for a week, and i probably looked like the uber tourist, i had my camera out pretty much all the time and encountered no problems.

glad to hear insurance covered your stuff.

[stepatee]

They are fine if you use your camera in the Sistine Chapel -- unless you use a flash :) It's pretty surprising how many people don't know how to turn off their flash!

[narlus]

huh...maybe they changed their policy since i was there in '99 (and yes, i had no flash on my G2) :D

[Glenn NK]

Sorry for being harsh now, but this is typical American. When in Rome, don't trust nice guys. :confused: Rome is not any better or worse then New York, Los Angeles, or Tokyo. There are thiefs waiting for naive people everywhere, and somewhere they don't even try to be nice, but just put gun under your face, and with bit "luck", they trigger gun first, and ask for your bag later.
My point is, that you should think a bit before you go somewhere, and such things are most common things thief do, and you are warned about exactly such happenings, in every single travel book.

My Canadian son and his Canadian wife were in Italy (Monza) for the Italian Grand Prix in September 2007 - they won't go back to Italy. They didn't feel endangered and weren't robbed, but experienced quite a bit of rudeness.

France, Germany, and Belgium (Spa) were quite different, and they especially liked France.

This isn't a put-down or an endorsement of any country , it's just what they observed while there for two weeks.

I'm planning on getting to Italy sometime in the next two years - I'll take my chances.

[Glenn NK]

Oh and FYI, I'm Swiss,... we know a thing or two about Chocolate :)

(there go those stereotypes again,.. should i mention watches, 400 years of democracy, and the cuckoo clock? )


You sure do know your chocolate - my son brought some back for me - superb.

[tiziano]

since we're comparing ocula....from '06

http://narlus.zenfolio.com/img/v0/p1026257003.jpg

btw, did you get the hairy eyeball for using yr camera in the sistine chapel?

Great shot!
But it's called "cupola"! :)

[narlus]

thanks!

by oculus, i was referring to the hole ('eye') in the cupola. :D
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/oculus

[tiziano]

thanks!

by oculus, i was referring to the hole ('eye') in the cupola. :D
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/oculus

:oops::oops::oops:

oculus. eye in Latin.