Is Lightroom color managed?

[SeanH]

Just wondering why it doesn't look the same in Photoshop? I do most of my editing for Virtual tours in Lightroom first, but still use PS to sharpen and correct distortion. Anyway, every time I open the images in PS the look flat compared to Lightroom.........clor temp is a bit cooler too.

What's going on?

......Oh and BTW CS3, and I'm on a Mac.

[cosworth]

Yes it is. You may have Photoshop set up wrong.

[PixelMagic]

See Page 12 of Lightroom's excellent User Guide available here: http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/Lightroom/1.0/help.pdf

[SeanH]

See Page 12 of Lightroom's excellent User Guide available here: http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/Lightroom/1.0/help.pdf

Thanks for the link. And looking at my prints I'd say photoshop is right, it's lightroom that is off.

[cosworth]

Maybe you are not using the right printer colour profile between the two programs.

[SeanH]

Maybe you are not using the right printer colour profile between the two programs.

Hmmmm, as last check I didn't think there was a way to select a print profile in lightroom. Maybe that has changed? I'm just saying that the prints coming out of photoshop look like the images on the screen. So given that I'm assuming PS is right. Therfore when the images look flater in PS than they do in Lightroom I'm going to guess the Lightroom display properties are off.

Does that make sense?

[René Damkot]

Yes, you can choose printer profiles in LR. In the Print module, there is a drop down 'Color Management' at the bottom. Choose a profile instead of "managed by printer".

But let's stick with the problem at hand first ;)
The images look different in both apps. That should *not* be the case. Are you sure you have PS set up right? Have a look in my sig for an example of the Color settings.
When you use LR, and haven't changed the default working space there, you might want to choose ProPhotRGB as working space, but that's not all that important, as long as the rest is set up right.

If everything is set up correct, PS and LR (and about any other app on the Mac, like Preview, Mail and Safari) will display an image identical.
PS can be set up wrong. AFAIK, the only way to get LR to display images wrong, is to have a messed up monitor profile.

Few links to check for that in the link from my sig.

As for the print to screen match: LR doesn't softproof, PS can. So it is possible that LR appears to give a better match, while PS is more accurate. Try softproofing in CS3 for the printer/paper combination you are using.

[rcg]

Lots of LR users who have Leopard are encountering difficulty with color management. Everything working correctly in say PScs3 but LR prints are looking double color managed. I'm still trying to get a solution for my shiney new Pixma 9000.

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2007/12/printing_on_leopard_with_light.html#comments

[cosworth]

Works fine on Vista.... ;)

[René Damkot]

Lots of LR users who have Leopard

This (http://lightroom-blog.com/2007/12/ian-lyons-printing-on-epsons-with.html) might help.
(Then again, it might not. I still use OSX 10.4 ;))

[danpass]

No matter how I fired off a RAW shot in a 30D, ie regardless of what picture style I used (vivid, BW, Faithful, etc), LR would bring the pic to a generic, flat color level (even the BW one).


I did a quick test and shot the same subject using all the Picture Styles. LR equalized all of them. Canon's DPP kept the settings I had used in-camera (even though, in DPP, you can set the PictureStyle at will regardless of how it was fired off when using RAW)




.

[SeanH]

Still on Tiger.

.....and thanks I'll check that stuff out.

Here's PS, and I have no Idea where the Lightroom settings are......so I have never changed them.....LOL

http://www.pbase.com/blue622/image/91333488.jpg

[rcg]

This (http://lightroom-blog.com/2007/12/ian-lyons-printing-on-epsons-with.html) might help.
(Then again, it might not. I still use OSX 10.4 ;))

Thanks but that isn't a help. The issue is beyond user control. It is an interaction of Leopard and LR.

[rcg]

No matter how I fired off a RAW shot in a 30D, ie regardless of what picture style I used (vivid, BW, Faithful, etc), LR would bring the pic to a generic, flat color level (even the BW one).


I did a quick test and shot the same subject using all the Picture Styles. LR equalized all of them. Canon's DPP kept the settings I had used in-camera (even though, in DPP, you can set the PictureStyle at will regardless of how it was fired off when using RAW)




.



Picture styles isn't really a RAW control... it's for JPEGs. It sounds like the Canon software is reading some stored meta data somewhere and adjusting the RAW. You can create presets in LR to accomplish a similar result. The point is when shooting RAW you might as well forget the Styles settings.

[rcg]

Still on Tiger.

.....and thanks I'll check that stuff out.

Here's PS, and I have no Idea where the Lightroom settings are......so I have never changed them.....LOL




Check Rene's link above it will help you find the settings in LR.

[In2Photos]

No matter how I fired off a RAW shot in a 30D, ie regardless of what picture style I used (vivid, BW, Faithful, etc), LR would bring the pic to a generic, flat color level (even the BW one).


I did a quick test and shot the same subject using all the Picture Styles. LR equalized all of them. Canon's DPP kept the settings I had used in-camera (even though, in DPP, you can set the PictureStyle at will regardless of how it was fired off when using RAW)




.
Picture Styles are proprietary to Canon's software only or in JPEGs processed by the camera. This is not a flaw in LR it is simply Canon not releasing any information about the algorithyms used in the process. Since Adobe programs use their own algorithyms simply adding a little saturation here and a little contrast there doesn't work. If you want to use Picture Styles you need to use DPP.

[Lowner]

I read somewhere (dont ask me where) that Adobe use different algorithms in Lightroom than they do in Photoshop.

How these algorithms are used is beyond me, but it must be either to describe the colour or describe how to manipulate it?

If true, why they should decide to change a perfectly working colour management process, only Adobe knows.

I'm not a computer genius, rather the original idiot, so any geniuses out there able to throw more light on whether this is true, or just more internet rubbish?

Richard

[chrisvl]

No matter how I fired off a RAW shot in a 30D, ie regardless of what picture style I used (vivid, BW, Faithful, etc), LR would bring the pic to a generic, flat color level (even the BW one).


I did a quick test and shot the same subject using all the Picture Styles. LR equalized all of them. Canon's DPP kept the settings I had used in-camera (even though, in DPP, you can set the PictureStyle at will regardless of how it was fired off when using RAW)




.

I read somewhere very recently that only the Canon software can read the picture style info. So if you shoot with the BW camera setting. LR only sees the color.

[cosworth]

I read somewhere (dont ask me where) that Adobe use different algorithms in Lightroom than they do in Photoshop.


They both use the same Camera RAW engine. Processing jpegs I'm sure is the same.

Why would they bother recoding the engine? Waste of resources.

Picture styles are applied to the RAW data. RAW data stays raw. Lightroom's "presets" are picture styles in exactly the same way.

[SeanH]

Check Rene's link above it will help you find the settings in LR.

Well if that's the case I can't find anything on that link.


.......And BTW, picture styles has nothing to do with my question. I'd like it if Rene took a look at my PS color setting VS default setting in Lightroon and tell me if he see's a problem. Like I said since I don't know where the LR settings are at then I'm sure I have never changed them.

[rcg]

Well if that's the case I can't find anything on that link.


.......And BTW, picture styles has nothing to do with my question. I'd like it if Rene took a look at my PS color setting VS default setting in Lightroon and tell me if he see's a problem. Like I said since I don't know where the LR settings are at then I'm sure I have never changed them.

LR room settings are in the right panel of the print module. Sub panels are:

Image Settings
Layout
Overlays
Print Job

Open print job, Look for color management, notice the profile setting. The default is "managed by printer". You should choose to have a specific printer profile there instead to match your paper.

[rcg]

They both use the same Camera RAW engine. Processing jpegs I'm sure is the same.

Why would they bother recoding the engine? Waste of resources.

Picture styles are applied to the RAW data. RAW data stays raw. Lightroom's "presets" are picture styles in exactly the same way.


Exactly right.

[dtrayers]

Well if that's the case I can't find anything on that link.


.......And BTW, picture styles has nothing to do with my question. I'd like it if Rene took a look at my PS color setting VS default setting in Lightroon and tell me if he see's a problem. Like I said since I don't know where the LR settings are at then I'm sure I have never changed them.

If your images look kind of dark and dull, I'd bet your PS isn't handling the ProPhotoRGB colorspace well.

What verson of LR are you using? Rene's link was for 1.0. Here is the screen for v1.3. You can get to it under Edit->Preferences:

http://www.trayersphotography.com/share/photos/LR_edit_prefs.JPG

[SeanH]

If your images look kind of dark and dull, I'd bet your PS isn't handling the ProPhotoRGB colorspace well.

What verson of LR are you using? Rene's link was for 1.0. Here is the screen for v1.3. You can get to it under Edit->Preferences:

http://www.trayersphotography.com/share/photos/LR_edit_prefs.JPG

There we go! Now that makes sense. I have the newest version......just updated last night. I'll check that out. Makes sense because I have the colorspace warning turned off in PS........never know when it's not matching. Looks like I'll turn it back on......lesson learned!


Oops .......wait a second. I just looked at that, I don't external edit (I assuming that is done with LR still open) I do all my adjustments, do a export in to a new folder, close LM, then edit in PS.........which I now see is a huge waste of time.....LOL. But still, that's how I was doing it.

[dtrayers]

Sean,

In your export settings, what colorspace to you have selected? You can select ProPhotoRGB, AdobeRGB ( 1998 ) or sRGB.

[SeanH]

Sean,

In your export settings, what colorspace to you have selected? You can select ProPhotoRGB, AdobeRGB ( 1998 ) or sRGB.

sRGB. But I don't know I have just tried it again and it seems to be fixed. Don't know what the deal was. I really need to learn lightroom. Just the external editor part really help me.......I really just need to learn it more than simple adjustments........but I've always been a Layer guy LOL :wink:

[HyperYagami]

I'm considering to switch to LR too since I do quite a bit of Photoshop, and I'd think it integrates better. However it used to be the case where DPP produces better conversions than the Adobe products (like ACR), like better colors and sharpness.

Is it still true now?

[dtrayers]

I'm considering to switch to LR too since I do quite a bit of Photoshop, and I'd think it integrates better. However it used to be the case where DPP produces better conversions than the Adobe products (like ACR), like better colors and sharpness.

Is it still true now?

I don't think so. I think that when once you learn the tool (DPP, ACR, Lightroom, C1, Bibble, etc) you can get excellent results.

For me, it's the speed. I'm shooting for sale, and I have a couple of catalogs of several thousand images each. I'll get an order for up to 50 sometimes, and I can quickly crop, adjust, convert, and FTP them to the printer.

The only time I've not used LR exclusively is when I shoot ISO6400 images that I'm printing poster size (32x48). I think that CaptureOne does the best job of the initial noise reduction (better than ACR, LR or DPP).

[CyberDyneSystems]

Just wondering why it doesn't look the same in Photoshop? I do most of my editing for Virtual tours in Lightroom first, but still use PS to sharpen and correct distortion. Anyway, every time I open the images in PS the look flat compared to Lightroom.........clor temp is a bit cooler too.

What's going on?

......Oh and BTW CS3, and I'm on a Mac.


Going all the way back to the first post..
When I installed Lightroom it defaulted to ProPhoto RGB colorspace.
I even remember it telling me it was going to do so.
Could this be your problem that your output files are Prophoto, and then your working in another colorspace in PSCS?

[CyberDyneSystems]

Ack,. didn't see page two! :lol:

[René Damkot]

sRGB. But I don't know I have just tried it again and it seems to be fixed. Don't know what the deal was. I really need to learn lightroom. Just the external editor part really help me.......I really just need to learn it more than simple adjustments........but I've always been a Layer guy LOL :wink:

How did you set up PS?
If it's still set up like you posted in post #12, then the color space you have set in the LR prefs, won't make any difference: If you open a ProPhotoRGB file in PS, PS will just use ProPhotoRGB as working space....

However it used to be the case where DPP produces better conversions than the Adobe products (like ACR), like better colors and sharpness.

Is it still true now?

IMO, yes.