20D not all peaches!

[photography By Evangelos]

So far the files out of the camera require a lot of sharpening. They all look very soft. The 10D files are not this soft. Are there any new sharping actions for the 20D yet? I have the ones for he 10D. Any one having this problem? I have put over a thousand images through the camera this weekend at 3 events so far. Also the camera has shut down on me twice and would not restart. I have to remove the battery and put it back in and then it will power up. I had to put it down and pick up old reliable "10D". Also the camera keeps under exposing I have to bump up the flash 1/3 in manual mode. In ''P" it also under exposes have to bump it up 1/2 more flash power. A/F fast but need to be careful or will have a lot of out of focus images. Over all the files out of the 20D are not that much better over the 10D. I am hard pressed to tell the difference on a lot of the images. The higher speeds are a lot less noise over the 10D but that is it. I think I will keep one of my 10D's and not sell off both of the cameras. So far I am not that impressed with the camera like I thought I would be. The A/F is faster and the FPS are great that is it so far. I may have a lemon or canon will have a firm ware up grade very soon. I will stick it out one more week and give the camera an other work out this weekend to see how it performs. If it shuts down on me once more I will be sending it back to B&H for a replacement camera. I have had the D30, D60, and the 10D and never had a camera just shut down one me ever. I have had error 99 that is it and all I did is remove the battery and it was gone and it only happed once with the D60 that is it. Looks to me like one more of canon growing pains with a new model.



Angelo 8)

[roanjohn]

Hmmm.......not sure about the camera shutting down for no reason. You might have a lemon if thats the case.

The 20D's parameter 2 is more conservative compared to the 10D. Try setting your sharpness +1 or +1/2 and see if that makes a difference.

The image quality of the 20d is not that much different from the Rebel/10D............BUT, at higher ISO's, the 20d's images are much cleaner.

Ro1

[scottbergerphoto]

There have been numerous(>40) posts of the 20D locking up, particularly after changing CF cards and lenses with the camera turned off. Check out:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=267777&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Regards,
Scott

[Scottes]

I also think my 20D images are very soft, but I'm not conclusive about that yet. I've seen some *very* sharp images from the 20D - just not mine. So I figure it's some setting or another. We'll see.

[Malaxos1]

I agree that the photos are very soft. What I read on the DPR reveiw was that it is like the 1D MkII in that they are soft on purpose and that you can really blast them with USM and get more detail than with the 10D. I found that to be right on. The photo were soft and I can give them like 2.5% USM and get incredibly sharp photos without getting the white halo. I used to hate the halo and would spend a lot of time cloning it away, not any more...Dean

[Scottes]

There you go. I'll try some very aggressive sharpening tonight.

[photography By Evangelos]

Sounds like I need to start sharpening my sharpening skills a bit more.
And I did not change lenses or CF cards. The camera is set to shut it self off after 2 Min. Then when you press the shutter button it should power up. Well it did not power up. I even cycled the switch a few times. I had to remove the battery this seems to have reset the camera This how ever should not happen at all and is unacceptable performance. I hope it is just a minor firmware upgrade. My good friend in Tampa has had the same problem with his 2-20D cameras he too got his from B&H not sure if this lot is some how a batch of lemons or a 20D fault. We will see in the following weeks. Hold on to you 10D’s if you use your cameras to make a living. You simply can not trust the camera yet! :x


Angelo 8)

[Morden]

Sounds like I need to start sharpening my sharpening skills a bit more.

:D

I tried an "old" Generic PhotoShop sharpening action of Fred Miranda's (Edge Sharpen Pro) and got great results from a couple of 20D images.

I can't wait for Capture One to become "aware" of the 20D.

[DReb-MO]

I tried an "old" Generic PhotoShop sharpening action of Fred Miranda's (Edge Sharpen Pro) and got great results from a couple of 20D images.

I can't wait for Capture One to become "aware" of the 20D.

How long do you think that will be?

[Morden]

I wish I knew! I know that they plan to include it in the next update, but I'm not certain that it will be supported in the "LE" version, which is the one that I bought.

[robertdrake]

DPReview is full of posts about the 20D locking up. Looks like close to half are experiencing this lockup. Almost caused me not to buy it (I wouldn't have where it not for the likelyhood I'd loose my $600 deposit). I haven't had lockups yet, but then, I've only taken 4 pics with it.

[Morden]

I've taken a few more than 4 photos with my 20D - maybe 300 - with no evident problems so far. :)

[DReb-MO]

I've taken a few more than 4 photos with my 20D - maybe 300 - with no evident problems so far. :)

Took about 150 over the wekend with zero issues, other then the usual "oh my Rebel didn't work that way" issues. Learning a new camera is fun though. :wink:

[Morden]

Took about 150 over the wekend with zero issues, other then the usual "oh my Rebel didn't work that way" issues. Learning a new camera is fun though. :wink:

It is, yes, though the way that my new 20D works isn't very different to my 10D. Largely, it's just a whole lot faster! :)

[Adam Hicks]

What about just using customer parameter with Sharpness +1? I'm going to take some shots of some liquor bottles or something tripod mounted with various sharpness settings on-camera and see how they fare.

Anyone have a good round average for using USM to bulk sharpen images? I don't know where to start with the USM sliders :(

Adam

[Morden]

What about just using customer parameter with Sharpness +1?

Even setting +2 applies nowhere near as much sharpening as the decent Photoshop actions. I'm betting that C1 will also apply more (and better quality) sharpening once it properly supports the 20D. :)

[malla1962]

I wish I knew! I know that they plan to include it in the next update, but I'm not certain that it will be supported in the "LE" version, which is the one that I bought.hi morden,have you had any of these 20d problems yet?hope the uk models are ok

[Hatem Eldoronki]

....old reliable "10D".
Angelo 8)

Didn't you have two 10D's, that, you had problems with :?:

[Nolz]

just so you know, my 300D did the shut down thing on me about 4 times before she came good. i would have the exact same issue as you with it shutting down. this was within the first week of ownership. i blamed it on not thouroughly charging the batt's before using it. are you using a new battery?....hopefully it all comes good for you soon mate!

[chartbin]

All these issues, is the firmware Windows based??? :P :P :P :P

Please check out my virgin 20D photo (not a photo of a virgin) at

http://www.phototalk.net/photos/data/500/1994Five_bucks_20D_ptn.jpg

and tell me what I should be whining about. :lol:

[chartbin]

Oh, the details of the shot
Canon 20D
1/40s shutter speed
5.6 aperture
ISO 200
300mm
JPG, no post adjustment

[Hatem Eldoronki]

....and here's a good one from me: no PS, except for downsizing from original to 1000x667 pixels

20D,1/3sec, F4.5, EF100mmf2.8macro, no flash...the white color is actually paint on the wood itself.

http://home.comcast.net/~eldoronki/art/IMG_0206.jpg

[JZaun]

There have been numerous(>40) posts of the 20D locking up, particularly after changing CF cards and lenses with the camera turned off. Check out:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=267777&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Regards,
Scott


&^%$#,, Now I know what happened to me yesterday. I left the camera on overnight by mistake. It would not wake up or come back on afterbeing cut off. Put in a fresh battery and it was ok. I thought the battery had gone dead :? I guess I got the lockup problem also. Maybe my focus issue wasn't unreal after all. It might have fix'd itself like the lockup did. Now I am really paranoid. any problem I have now will make me wonder is it me or the cam! I got 9 days to return it, now I don't know what to do!!!

I've already sold my 10D!!!

JZ

[Morden]

hi morden,have you had any of these 20d problems yet?hope the uk models are ok

No problems yet! So far the 20D is all good, clean, FAST fun! :D

[flashmaster123]

Not knowing that the 20d was going to be out so soon I bought the 10d about 5 weeks ago. My images are all very soft and require a lot of sharpening in post processing. I have my camera sharpening perimeter set to the highest possable and my images still require a lot of sharpening. My friend has a 10d and he never does any post sharpening and his perimeters are set to factory. ??? Maybe its just the luck of the draw?

[Morden]

Maybe its just the luck of the draw?

Same lens? And type of subject?

[Malaxos1]

I have never heard that a 10D does not require post proccessing. I don't believe that is true. I use a D60 which is as close as you can get and you do have to sharpen them...Dean

[robertdrake]

Seems that many are fine with the idea of slamming the battery in and out of the camera to solve their lockups. I wonder how long my computer would last if I just unplugged it every time it locked up, then stuck the cord back in while its on? Canon might even call doing this "misuse".

[photography By Evangelos]

Yes at one point I did. I sent in the cameras to Canon CPS with a bunch of lenses and they calibrated the body’s and the lenses. Since then I have not had any problems at all. I can say that the work flawlessly since the visit to canon CPS in Jamesburg NJ. I am very happy now with the 10D. I will try the camera “20D” this weekend and see if it shuts down again. I have played with it today and it did not shut down on me. But it is not the same as when you are at an event and things are very fast and you do not put the camera down for 4 to 8 hours giving it a real work out. This is when I have had most if any equipment problems like failures or shut downs, Flash problems, or lens apture getting stuck or error 99 with the D60. Any way this is my experience in using film and digital camera equipment.


Angelo 8)

[photography By Evangelos]

Yes at one point I did. I sent in the cameras to Canon CPS with a bunch of lenses and they calibrated the body’s and the lenses. Since then I have not had any problems at all. I can say that the work flawlessly since the visit to canon CPS in Jamesburg NJ. I am very happy now with the 10D. I will try the camera “20D” this weekend and see if it shuts down again. I have played with it today and it did not shut down on me. But it is not the same as when you are at an event and things are very fast and you do not put the camera down for 4 to 8 hours giving it a real work out. This is when I have had most if any equipment problems like failures or shut downs, Flash problems, or lens apture getting stuck or error 99 with the D60. Any way this is my experience in using film and digital camera equipment.


Angelo 8)

[kawter2]

Does anyone ever notice that your IR emission on your EX flash stops working? Mine stops, and I have to reset the camera settings for it to start again. then it will stop w/o me changing anything. This is all in one shot mode of course

[drisley]

I remember posts about "cycling" the battery on the 1D MKII when people first recieved theirs.
Is the same recommended for the 20D?

[Jon]

I remember posts about "cycling" the battery on the 1D MKII when people first recieved theirs.
Is the same recommended for the 20D?

That's a general "best practice" for LiIon batteries. It doesn't mean that you need to charge it up and run it down several times before you actually use the camera, just that it'll hit peak efficiency after it's been recharged 3-4 times.

[cc10d]

Regarding soft focus experience with the 20D

-Evangelos said:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes at one point I did. I sent in the cameras to Canon CPS with a bunch of lenses and they calibrated the body’s and the lenses. Since then I have not had any problems at all. I can say that the work flawlessly since the visit to canon CPS in Jamesburg NJ. I am very happy now with the 10D. I will try the camera “20D” this weekend and see if it shuts down again. I have played with it today and it did not shut down on me. But it is not the same as when you are at an event and things are very fast and you do not put the camera down for 4 to 8 hours giving it a real work out. This is when I have had most if any equipment problems like failures or shut downs, Flash problems, or lens apture getting stuck or error 99 with the D60. Any way this is my experience in using film and digital camera equipment.


Angelo

I wonder if you are using the lenses that were set up for the 10D? Seems to me that if the lenses were adjusted to match the 10D, that, it is likely they are not at the standard point of calibration and that could explain why they do not fit focus well with the 20D. The 20D may be on the standard settings that the original 10Ds were off a bit. So now the adjusted lenses are off a bit to match the 10D. What do you think?

Chuck

[photography By Evangelos]

I am not sure on this one. I guess I will have to call CPS to confirm if this is the case. As I remember the checked the lenses to some know lens standard for each lens and checked the body’s to make sure they all were playing nicely. But I will have to call and ask. Thanks for you input.



Angelo 8)

[BDM]

[quote="J

&^%$#,, Now I know what happened to me yesterday. I left the camera on overnight by mistake. It would not wake up or come back on afterbeing cut off. Put in a fresh battery and it was ok. I thought the battery had gone dead :? I guess I got the lockup problem also. Maybe my focus issue wasn't unreal after all. It might have fix'd itself like the lockup did. Now I am really paranoid. any problem I have now will make me wonder is it me or the cam! I got 9 days to return it, now I don't know what to do!!!

I've already sold my 10D!!!

JZ[/quote]

Gosh, I would just hang in there. If there is a camera problem Canon will fix it. Obviously, if a significant number of cameras hang up sales will come to a rapid halt. I think we sometimes forget that these cameras are really computers with a lens attached. That means software drives them and software is often buggy with the first release. I bet a firmware upgrade will become available soon and, if there are problems, they will go away. I have often been told that when it comes to software, avoid buying version one. Unfortunately, that probably applies to digital cameras as well.

Sure there can be serious problems if the camera is used to make a living. But I still remember losing a completed legal brief I wrote near the deadline when either Windows or the word processing program or both crashed and corrupted the data file. That used to happen too often with that particular version of Windows (version 3) and forced us to go back to DOS until a more stable version came out.

Bruce

[robertdrake]

Mine finallly locked up...not that I'm at all surprised. And I didn't change any lenes (so far, all I have is the cheapo 50 1.8 ), but I did go from manual to automatic with the camera off, that locked everything up nice and tight. I'm not the optimistic sort, I think there's a serious design flaw, and Canon will go into denial mode and refuse to recognize that such a problem exists. Then will come the class action lawsuits, and we'll eventually get a coupon from Canon for $50 toward our next dSLR purchase :P Seriously :evil:

[DReb-MO]

Mine finallly locked up...not that I'm at all surprised.

Well, I have tried everything folks have listed here as the cause of a "lock-up" and my 20D has not locked up once. I guess I just got lucky! :roll:

[Perfect_10]

I can smell a 20D mkII coming on .. unless Canon can fix this with a f/w update (hopefully).

Does anyone want to go back to their reliable 10D/D300 they owned prior to buying the 20D .. the one that they discarded in a hurry to get this ??

[Belmondo]

As always, I'm the outsider....the one who is always just a little different from all the others.

This time it's my 20D. It hasn't locked up on me once yet.

So far, I've used it with the following lenses:
70-200 f/2.8L IS
70-300DO
400 f/5.6L
24-70 f/2.8L
16-35L

Not one lockup. Not a single misstep. Not so much as a hiccup.

I feel so-----

I feel so neglected.

I've ordered a grip. Hopefully I'll be able to post a message here very soon telling you all that my 20D finally locked up on me. I hate being the odd man out. I feel so much like a leper.

Of course, I could always try dropping it. That worked for my 100-400L.
:oops: :lol:

[DReb-MO]

As always, I'm the outsider....the one who is always just a little different from all the others...

Same here. I think we should start a thread for those NOT afflicted with the lock up. Sort of like a help group where we can share our circumstances... :lol:

[Perfect_10]

As always, I'm the outsider....the one who is always just a little different from all the others.

This time it's my 20D. It hasn't locked up on me once yet.

So far, I've used it with the following lenses:
70-200 f/2.8L IS
70-300DO
400 f/5.6L
24-70 f/2.8L
16-35L

Not one lockup. Not a single misstep. Not so much as a hiccup.

I feel so-----

I feel so neglected.

I've ordered a grip. Hopefully I'll be able to post a message here very soon telling you all that my 20D finally locked up on me. I hate being the odd man out. I feel so much like a leper.

Of course, I could always try dropping it. That worked for my 100-400L.
:oops: :lol:

Don't worry .. I'm sure it will happen .. just when you want to shoot the once-in-a-lifetime shot :twisted:

[pcasciola]

Does anyone want to go back to their reliable 10D/D300 they owned prior to buying the 20D .. the one that they discarded in a hurry to get this ??

Not a chance!!!! I've used both, and now own a 20D with the lockup "feature", and I still wouldn't downgrade to a 10D if someone were to offer me a new 10D + $1000 for my 20D.

Keep in mind. A 20D can be UN-locked in less time than a 10D can be cycled off and on.

[Hatem Eldoronki]

Does anyone want to go back to their reliable 10D/D300 they owned prior to buying the 20D .. the one that they discarded in a hurry to get this ??

Not a chance!!!! I've used both, and now own a 20D with the lockup "feature", and I still wouldn't downgrade to a 10D if someone were to offer me a new 10D + $1000 for my 20D.

Keep in mind. A 20D can be UN-locked in less time than a 10D can be cycled off and on.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[OviV]

No lockups for me either with any of my lenses (I think I have tried all of them by now). I don't have the grip yet.

[photography By Evangelos]

How do you use your 20D? Or how long each time 1HR 8HR?? When my 20D locked up I was using it for around 6 hours at a Wedding I have it set to go off in 4Min if I am not using it. When I press the shutter button it should wake up and be ready to shoot. It worked fine most of the event then when I went to pick it up and use it after 30 Min it would not wake up I tried cycling the on/Off switch and it would not turn on at all. So I put it down and picked up one of my 10D's and kept shooting. I all ways use 2 Body’s one on the camera strap on my shoulder with the 70-200 F4 10D And one on the camera bracket with the 17-35 F2.8 L 20D. And one spare body in the bag just in case I need it set up and ready to go with the 24-70L and 550EX flash. The thing of it is when you are busy it really rattles you up when a camera goes down. Most of the time it is when you really need it most and things are busy. I had to run to my bag when the 20D would not wake up and pick up the spare I just did not have time to figure out why it was not working. When I had time later I took out the battery and it woke up from it's sleeping break. I now have the Grip so it will be easer to remove the battery if I need to again. Once mounted to the bracket is is not easy to remove the battery with out the grip. You must remove the camera from the bracket and then take out the battery and then re-attach the camera. Very time consuming process. So we will see if the 20D needs more sleep time this weekend. This time around I will be ready! :x If need be :?

Angelo 8)

[sjprg]

For those of you who seem to have "soft images" check out
www.focusmagic.com
Much better sharping then USM, and they also have motion blur correction.

A lot of what I thought was soft images from my 10D turned out to be motion blur. I'm begining to beleive that digital cameras need at least f/250 to really stop motion blur and or camera shake. I've taken to using a monopod for all my photos.

[redbutt]

O.K. So, is the take-away of this that I should wait for the second round of 20D's to come out of Canon, or if I have the cash, should I pop for the 1D MkII.

I love my 10D...great pictures, but I would like the faster fps for event photography.