Laws against taking pictures of US prison?

[pmk]

I tried to take a nighttime shot of a Massachusetts state prison tonight and was accosted by one of the guards who forced me to leave saying that it wasn't allowed. I was on the grass of their property at the time, so I asked if it would be OK if I took the shot from the public sidewalk. He said no, and that if the guards in the towers saw me, there would be a big scene. Not wanting to deal with a "big scene", I left ... but it makes me wonder what the laws really are.

I really liked the way the light was shining on the evil-looking barbed wire and thought it would make an interesting photograph.

Thoughts? I'm tempted to call up the warden and clear it with him/her first.

pmk

[jptsr1]

illegal or not it dosent seem like its worth the hassle for a picture of barbed wire. i would think the reasons for the guard not wanting you to photograph the prison would be obvious.

J.

[MJPhotos24]

I tried to take a nighttime shot of a Massachusetts state prison tonight and was accosted by one of the guards who forced me to leave saying that it wasn't allowed. I was on the grass of their property at the time, so I asked if it would be OK if I took the shot from the public sidewalk. He said no, and that if the guards in the towers saw me, there would be a big scene. Not wanting to deal with a "big scene", I left ... but it makes me wonder what the laws really are.

I really liked the way the light was shining on the evil-looking barbed wire and thought it would make an interesting photograph.

Thoughts? I'm tempted to call up the warden and clear it with him/her first.

pmk

I grew up in a prison town and yes it is illegal according what we were told growing up. There's snipers watching every vehicle going by and every person that just strolls by, so even if you don't see them - they see you and actually have a live round pointed at you (best friends dad growing up was one of the guys doing that). The local one (Attica) is one of the most known and worst criminals in the country so that may be a reason, there's no visible barb wire, just a wall with guard towers every so often.

Now, if it's technically illegal if you found a way to do it not sure. I've seen photos of ACF around, but they are all from the same angle so my guess is they were set up and they have certain rules. I remember one time someone got questioned because they tried and were accused of trying to help someone escape by taking pictures of the layout of the prison. Dont think anything happened of it though.

[Mark_Cohran]

There may be some state or local ordinances that apply. It would be a good thing to check with your local government agencies.

[CyberDyneSystems]

This one, I can actually understand..

[i_am_hydrogen]

My experience with security guards is that they tend to be ill-informed of the law and often resort to scare-tactics and intimidation to abridge the rights of photographers. As long as you were on public property, there should be no problem. This should probably be a sticky:

The Photographer’s Right
Bert P. Krages II, Attorney at Law

About this Guide
Confrontations that impair the constitutional right to make images are becoming more common. To fight the abuse of your right to free expression, you need to know your rights to take photographs and the remedies available if your rights are infringed.

The General Rule
The general rule in the United States is that anyone may take photographs of whatever they want when they are in a public place or places where they have permission to take photographs. Absent a specific legal prohibition such as a statute or ordinance, you are legally entitled to take photographs. Examples of places that are traditionally considered public are streets, sidewalks, and public parks. Property owners may legally prohibit photography on their premises but have no right to prohibit others from photographing their property from other locations. Whether you need permission from property owners to take photographs while on their premises depends on the circumstances. In most places, you may reasonably assume that taking photographs is allowed and that you do not need explicit permission. However, this is a judgment call and you should request permission when the circumstances suggest that the owner is likely to object. In any case, when a property owner tells you not to take photographs while on the premises, you are legally obligated to honor the request.

Some Exceptions to the Rule
There are some exceptions to the general rule. A significant one is that commanders of military installations can prohibit photographs of specific areas when they deem it necessary to protect national security. The U.S. Department of Energy can also prohibit photography of designated nuclear facilities although the publicly visible areas of nuclear facilities are usually not designated as such. Members of the public have a very limited scope of privacy rights when they are in public places. Basically, anyone can be photographed without their consent except when they have secluded themselves in places where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy such as dressing rooms, restrooms, medical facilities, and inside their homes.

Permissible Subjects
Despite misconceptions to the contrary, the following subjects can almost always be photographed lawfully from public places:

* accident and fire scenes

* children

* celebrities

* bridges and other infrastructure

* residential and commercial buildings

* industrial facilities and public utilities

* transportation facilities (e.g., airports)

* Superfund sites

* criminal activities

* law enforcement officers


Who Is Likely to Violate Your Rights
Most confrontations are started by security guards and employees of organizations who fear photography. The most common reason given is security but often such persons have no articulated reason. Security is rarely a legitimate reason for restricting photography. Taking a photograph is not a terrorist act nor can a business legitimately assert that taking a photograph of a subject in public view infringes on its trade secrets. On occasion, law enforcement officers may object to photography but most understand that people have the right to take photographs and do not interfere with photographers. They do have the right to keep you away from areas where you may impede their activities or endanger safety. However, they do not have the legal right to prohibit you from taking photographs from other locations. They Have Limited Rights to Bother, Question, or Detain You Although anyone has the right to approach a person in a public place and ask questions, persistent and unwanted conduct done without a legitimate purpose is a crime in many states if it causes serious annoyance. You are under no obligation to explain the purpose of your photography nor do you have to disclose your identity except in states that require it upon request by a law enforcement officer. If the conduct goes beyond mere questioning, all states have laws that make coercion and harassment criminal offenses. The specific elements vary among the states but in general it is unlawful for anyone to instill a fear that they may injure you, damage or take your property, or falsely accuse you of a crime just because you are taking photographs. Private parties have very limited rights to detain you against your will and may be subject to criminal and civil charges should they attempt to do so. Although the laws in most states authorize citizen’s arrests, such authority is very narrow. In general, citizen’s arrests can be made only for felonies or crimes committed in the person’s presence. Failure to abide by these requirements usually means that the person is liable for a tort such as false imprisonment.


They Have No Right to Confiscate Your Film
Sometimes agents acting for entities such as owners of industrial plants and shopping malls may ask you to hand over your film. Absent a court order, private parties have no right to confiscate your film. Taking your film directly or indirectly by threatening to use force or call a law enforcement agency can constitute criminal offenses such as theft and coercion. It can likewise constitute a civil tort such as conversion. Law enforcement officers may have the authority to seize film when making an arrest but otherwise must obtain a court order.

Your Legal Remedies If Harassed
If someone has threatened, intimidated, or detained you because you were taking photographs, they may be liable for crimes such as kidnapping, coercion, and theft. In such cases, you should report them to the police. You may also have civil remedies against such persons and their employers. The torts for which you may be entitled to compensation include assault, conversion, false imprisonment, and violation of your constitutional rights.

Other Remedies If Harassed
If you are disinclined to take legal action, there are still things you can do that contribute to protecting the right to take photographs.

* Call the local newspaper and see if they are interested in running a story. Many newspapers feel that civil liberties are worthy of serious coverage.

* Write to or call the supervisor of the person involved, or the legal or public relations department of the entity, and complain about the event.

* Make the event publicly known on an Internet forum that deals with photography or civil rights issues.


How to Handle Confrontations
Most confrontations can be defused by being courteous and respectful. If the party becomes pushy, combative, or unreasonably hostile, consider calling the police. Above all, use good judgment and don’t allow an event to escalate into violence. In the event you are threatened with detention or asked to surrender your film, asking the following questions can help ensure that you will have the evidence to enforce your legal rights:

1. What is the person’s name?
2. Who is their employer?
3. Are you free to leave? If not, how do they intend to stop you if you decide to leave? What legal basis do they assert for the detention?
4. Likewise, if they demand your film, what legal basis do they assert for the confiscation?

Disclaimer
This is a general education guide about the right to take photographs and is necessarily limited in scope. For more information about the laws that affect photography, I refer you to the second edition of my book, Legal Handbook for Photographers (Amherst Media, 2006). This guide is not intended to be legal advice nor does it create an attorney client relationship. Readers should seek the advice of a competent attorney when they need legal advice regarding a specific situation.

http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

[strmrdr]

Even stopping on the road outside a prison is illegal in IN and IL and likely other states.
A friend of mines care broke down on the highway beside a IN max security prison and within 2 min had a prison guard truck and 2 state cops there.
They stayed with him until the tow truck got there which they called for him and told him he could either have it towed too the repair shop or it would be towed too impound and he would be arrested.
edit:
The tow truck driver said it happens 3 or 4 times a year that someone will break down in that area and he will get called to tow the car and that several people had been arrested and he had too take the cars 50 miles away to the nearest impound lot.
IL law is similar.

[strmrdr]

My experience with security guards
Prison guards are not security guards.
They are fully sworn LEO's on prison property, and in some areas the guys responding outside will be State Police assigned to the facility and have full arrest powers anywhere in the state.
A friend of mines Dad is a state cop assigned to a state prison doing that very thing.

[i_am_hydrogen]

Prison guards are not security guards.
They are fully sworn LEO's on prison property, and in some areas the guys responding outside will be State Police assigned to the facility and have full arrest powers anywhere in the state.
A friend of mines Dad is a state cop assigned to a state prison doing that very thing.

That doesn't alter the fact that taking a photo of a prison from public property is legal.

[strmrdr]

That doesn't alter the fact that taking a photo of a prison from public property is legal.
In IL and IN it isn't.
You can and likely will be arrested trying too do so.
I'm not going to argue about it,,, try it but don't call me for bail money....

[Woolburr]

That doesn't alter the fact that taking a photo of a prison from public property is legal.

You might want to check the laws of your state and actually verify that information. Taking photos of correctional facilities is certainly frowned upon.

The Krages guide is just that...a guide. You will notice that no where in what you rattled off was anything addressing correctional facilities.

You might want to think twice about waving a camera around here as well---

[primoz]

This one, I can actually understand..
To be honest, I don't :) I mean on one side I do, but today it's really pointless. If someone needs photos of this (or any military installation) for some bad reason, they already have it.... better (not artistically but from usable point of view) ones then we can take. I agree that 50 years ago, it would be ok to ban such photography, but nowadays, I think unfortunately it doesn't make sense anymore.

[primoz]

Dan, I'm joking now, but if it says US Property, doesn't that mean it's also yours property, so you are perfectly fine to walk around? :mrgreen: Of course I'm not allowed, since I'm not US citizen, and that is not my property.
Yes, yes, I'm not that naive, but it might work to persuade some policeman :mrgreen:

[Karl C]

That doesn't alter the fact that taking a photo of a prison from public property is legal.

Tell you what, why don't you try taking some shots and let us know what happens...

Odds are very good you'll be detained and questioned by the "security guards".

Are you a lawyer?

[JoYork]

It would be nice to hear from a lawyer to get this question answered properly...

[erthpro]

"It would be nice to hear from a lawyer to get this question answered properly."

Surely you jest! Which lawyer, from which side, with what agenda?

[primoz]

I'm sure that based on law, it probably is perfectly legal to take photos of prisons, military installations etc. when standing on public ground. But do you really want to go and explain that to some policeman? I rather skip such occasions if only I have chance for that.
Even if you are right, trying to convince someone with gun and IQ 50 points below average (sorry if someone will be offended now, but around places I have been, and where I have to deal with police, this is partly joke and partly truth), he is wrong and you are right, is not really easy thing to do. Not to mention all the problems you will most certainly have, before you will actually prove, you are right. So photo of some stupid building for your personal album is definitely not worth all this trouble, even if you are no braking any law.

[JoYork]

Well as far as I can tell it starts with buildings like prisons and then people arrest you for taking photos of supermarkets. In the UK recently, in 2 separate incidents, one couple were thrown out of a mall and another from a public park for taking photos of their own children.

I would love someone with big kahunas to actually test the law in this regard.

There's a UK comedian turned civil rights activist called Mark Thomas who regularly gets up the authorities noses for doing things which are perfectly legal. It's a crazy world.

[Mike McCusker]

I'm sure that based on law, it probably is perfectly legal to take photos of prisons, military installations etc. when standing on public ground. But do you really want to go and explain that to some policeman? I rather skip such occasions if only I have chance for that.
Even if you are right, trying to convince someone with gun and IQ 50 points below average (sorry if someone will be offended now, but around places I have been, and where I have to deal with police, this is partly joke and partly truth), he is wrong and you are right, is not really easy thing to do. Not to mention all the problems you will most certainly have, before you will actually prove, you are right. So photo of some stupid building for your personal album is definitely not worth all this trouble, even if you are no braking any law.

If you don't intend to offend a group, don't indict that group based on your experiences with a few representatives of it. I can assure you my IQ is not 50 points below the average, and without exception my fellow law enforcement officer's are not.

[kuanyu]

I would suggest a call into the warden and ask him, be sure to explain what and why you want the pictures of. If you present yourself right you may be allowed if not you can at least find out who can give you permision and ask them.

[Jim7226]

My suggestion is to put your energies into finding other photographic subjects to create unique images. Forget about whether it is legal or not...seems to me common sense would dictate that if it causes a commotion around a prison it likely isn't a wise thing to be doing. ;)

[Mark_Cohran]

Although in general is is perfectly legal to take photos of anything that is viewable from a public space, often there are some specific exceptions with local municipal or state ordinances in place which will identify those particulars. As far as malls and shopping centers go, those are considered private property, and as such, the property owners can set the rules for photography within the confines of the property. There are many cases of people being asked to leave malls/shopping centers for engaging in prohibited photography and it has been determined to be perfectly legal based on the property rights of the owners.

[EricL]

Heck, you all are missing an important point here. If you are taking a picture and the guard comes out, just tell him that he is more than able to have you arrested but there is no room in his prison for another convict!! Prison over-crowding benefits all of us photographers!:):)

[pmk]

Hi All,

I just spoke to someone at the prison and asked what the regs were. The superintendent needs to grant permission for any pictures to be taken of the prison, so I left him a message. We'll see what happens.

pmk

[flipstyle72]

legal or not, the fact that quite possibly an itchy finger prison guard is point his rifle at me from a far nullifies any merit to a photo which i would want to risk taking...lol

Good luck though!

[hastur]

I wonder how much you can get from Google Earth on a prison? Hmmmm, something to look up tonight when I get home.

[pmk]

The prison kindly contacted me and asked that I call the person in charge of "media relations". She basically said that even though I wasn't media, a photo of the place had to be handled through her office and that I would have to specify the exact type of photo that was to be taken. She thought that a picture of the fence would certainly not be acceptible for security reason. This is understandable.

I thanked her for her time and told her that taking the photos wasn't very important to me and that I wouldn't be pursuing it with her.

So there you have it.

pmk

[lungdoc]

I wonder how much you can get from Google Earth on a prison? Hmmmm, something to look up tonight when I get home.

Here's a link to Google Maps of Pelican Bay, one of the most secure (and infamous) facilities in the USA. Probably a lot better than you'd get from outside on the street!


http://maps.google.ca/maps?ie=UTF8&q=pelican+bay+state+prison&hl=en&near=crescent+city+california&f=l&cd=4&ei=m3-GR8v8B5WKiwHoqoGUBw&ll=41.854763,-124.1479&spn=0.006769,0.016844&t=h&z=17&iwloc=A&om=1

[Mike J.]

We have a massive Federal Prison complex near my house in a relatively rural area and I was parked across the road in a parking area getting ready to enter a wildlife refuge to do photography and one of the guards which patrol the perimeter came off of their property to check me out. He was very professional and courteous but non the less wanted to know my intentions. I explained my activities and there was no further investigation. He never warned me about taking photos on the prison side of the road but I did notice, however, 2 perimeter guard trucks remained there until I entered the woods.

[Gipetto]

And, just to clarify, just by being in the area you DO NOT have a gun pointed at you. Wether they take interest in your actions or not there are safety protocols and you do not have a chambered round pointed at you while outside the facility. That is FUD. Start arguing with a guard and that is likely to change - but just standing and looking at the prison, or even photographing it, doesn't warrant having a loaded weapon pointed at you.

While working in Canon City, Colorado I had the opportunity to tour all the facilities in the area: 5 State and 3 Federal (if I recall - this was 1997). While there is interest in what happens outside the facility, most eyes are facing inward and they know that the majority of traffic outside is normal. Like others have noted, they don't like people to linger as that is dangerous not only to the person stopped but potentially a security risk to the prison as well. You'd be surprised at what the pre-release programs are like (we would sometimes see them wander to a convenience store on the edge of town to try and buy beer).

One of the state prisons in Canon City is located literally on the end of the main drag through town (it was a relatively small town). There's a ridge to the northwest of the prison that was a popular place to go check out the comet that came over one summer - from there you could also look down into the prison. I was never harassed whenever photographing around the state prisons. The feds were a bit more picky, they'd check me out, sometimes mirror me as I would work my way around outside the bounds of the facility.

And it could be that it was a different time - people like to place blame on this as an effect of living in a "post 9/11 world" - who knows. I never got told I could not photograph the prison if I was in the area, but, then, I never really tested their patience, either.

[pmk]

Canon City? Is that next to the Town of Nikon? :D

pmk

[JonathanSQ]

I'm disappointed to see the outcome. When I first spotted the title I thought immediately
of the nearby jail where a friend is at, awaiting trial on some misunderstandings.

But the end result for you isn't encouraging for me to go try. Its a semi small town and
a good percentage of the police (county & city) don't care for me and my friends right now.

[jrobert]

There is very detailed imagery openly and publicly published and very readily available on line, that would put to shame any would-be evil-doer's efforts with a hand-held camera, and you need not look beyond your favorite online map / satellite / aerial imagery site. Guess what restrictions they are bound by? The "bird's eye" imagery available on a popular map and imagery site owned by a large and well known software company may surprise some folks. Locating your favorite places left as an exercise for the reader.

[JoYork]

Personally I've always found the paranoia associated with cameras to be asinine. The maritime museum in London even tries to tell you what tools you can and can't use to make a drawing! It was something silly like you can use pen but not crayons, I forget exactly the wording... drat, should have taken a photo of the sign and risked being thrown out :)

[SlowBlink]

Maybe George IV was crayolaphobic. :)

[Steve Parr]

I'm constantly amazed at how infallible some photographers think they are, believing they can go wherever they want, and shoot whatever they want.

It's a prison, for Pete's sake. Anyone who can't understand the concern that prison officials (who aren't "security guards") have for people taking pictures of their facilities isn't thinking hard enough.

If you really think you have a "right" to photograph it, do it, regardless of any warnings you're given to the contrary.

Please let us know how that pans out for you...

[JoYork]

Steve, what difference does it make if you capture the photons reflecting off a building onto a photo-sensitive surface? In other words, take a picture?

I can look at a prison and go away and make a sketch of it. Or I could photograph it covertly, or use Google Maps to get a nice aerial view.

To break someone out I'd need...well, I don't know but something more than a few photons of light!

[Mark001]

It's a prison, for Pete's sake. Anyone who can't understand the concern that prison officials (who aren't "security guards") have for people taking pictures of their facilities isn't thinking hard enough.


If they don't want them to be photographed, then they should be built in an area that can't be viewed from public property.

[Bootlegger0173]

Most always there is a live round in the chamber, but the weapon is in the safe position. Unless you are percieved as a threat already, the weapon my be pointed in your DIRECTION, but probably not directly at you. Most practices are to use a low-ready positon. The weapon can be brought up to a proper firing position quick enough from there, without directly threatening anyone.

At mine, you absolutly cannot take any photos, whatsoever, on sight without the Supt.'s written permission, and at least one escort. Also, they own a sizable buffer (right term?) that extends well into the woods beyond what you would thing was the property line. Also, there are no fly-overs either, as that is restricted. Also, vehicles going to and from the last mile or so of the main road are frequently monitored. If someone breaks down, they may or may not be approached, but tag info and other things are noted. Google will give you a "Way-Up" view, but nothing close. Don't know if it is programmed that way, or just coincidence.

Having said that, guided tours are usually approved, after a background check of the inside. Nobody wants to make enemies with the public, but there are very valid reasons to have these and other security precautions in place. You'd not believe the stuff that happens...

Also, even the press is not permitted to photo any of the convicts directly in the face, without higher approval than that. I think that that is a state law or something.

[lungdoc]

I still think the Google satellite view gives more information about these places than a shot from a nearby road would. This is the federal Supermax prison in Colorado on Google, this is probably the highest security facility in the USA. The views of the prisons seem indistinguishable in detail from any of the surrounding areas.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?near=florence+colorado&q=federal+prison+colorado&f=p&rl=1&ie=UTF8&ll=38.359224,-105.102929&spn=0.002877,0.007124&t=h&z=18&iwloc=A&om=1

[BIG H]

First of all, thank you for the entertainment! There sure is alot of "prison picture horror" stories out there!

Wisconsin prison property is posted - NO TRESPASSING - which means you can't venture onto the property with or without a camera. Of coarse the general public can navigate roads and parking lots to conduct official business - deliveries, visiting etc. Driveway entrances are posted NO PHOTOGRAPHY BEYOND THIS POINT. With that said, don't go beyond this point and snap a few pics.

PS - I'm one of those - low IQ correctional officers in the towers with guns. AND I LIKE TO SHOOT PEOPLE ... with my canons! Shooting people with paintballs is cool too. All done off prison property of coarse.

[Bootlegger0173]

Not really in keeping with the subject at hand, but I just thought this might be interesting to view, for anybody who ever wondered why Corrections staff can be a little uptight...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-3gDRqQ3vY

Feel free to delete, if posting this is inappropriate.

[pmk]

As I mentioned earlier, I decided not to pursue taking a photograph of the MA State Prison in question. I can understand the potential security issues, even though I think it's a bit overkill for the type of photo I wanted to take. I guess there are always slippery slopes and wackos out there who scheme breakouts and the like. It's ironic that the prison is right at a major rotary and literally thousands upon thousands of people look right into the prison each day.

On the kinder, friendlier side of the state penal system, across the street is a minimal security facility on a big sprawling farm. The inmates milk cows and whatnot. The public is cordially invited to come to their inmate-run "restaurant". For $1.43 you get a three course meal: salad, entry and even dessert, all served and cooked by the inmates. I've been once but the food isn't, er, um, really that good. Cheap though, and certainly a unique place to bring a date. You check in and leave your drivers licence at the door. No felons or people under 18 allowed.

Hmm, I wonder if I can take photos there? ;)

pmk

[tonylong]

I don't want to stir up controversy, and I may be mistaken, but there is, at least in the USA, a distinction between photographing from a public spot (such as a sidewalk) and going onto non-public property and photographing.

For example, I believe it would be within my rights to photograph a sports arena from a public sidewalk, but once I go through the doors I'm subject to their rules.

In the prison example, my assumption is that they would not have the right to restrict you if you were in a public place -- in fact, I would assume that it would be against their procedures to leave their property to try to stop you, but if you go onto their property they would have every right to restrict your photography.

This is guessing based on what I've read about the rights of photographers. Does anyone have an actual law to cite that contradicts this? I'm restarting this conversation not because I want to go around photographing prisons but because I don't want to be uninformed or misinformed!

[Jethro790]

On the kinder, friendlier side of the state penal system, across the street is a minimal security facility on a big sprawling farm. The inmates milk cows and whatnot. The public is cordially invited to come to their inmate-run "restaurant". For $1.43 you get a three course meal: salad, entry and even dessert, all served and cooked by the inmates. I've been once but the food isn't, er, um, really that good. Cheap though, and certainly a unique place to bring a date. You check in and leave your drivers licence at the door. No felons or people under 18 allowed.

Hmm, I wonder if I can take photos there? ;)

pmk

Haha, I grew up near Concord, MA...

The prison pmk is talking about has walls that are about 70' away from the Eastbound lane of an extremely busy highway, not to mention there is a sidewalk open to the public right there... I can understand his frustration becasue about a half million people get the same view of the walls each day that you can get with a camera. You could sit in an Italian resturaunt across the street with a 400 mm and get the same view.

[Bootlegger0173]

That would be frustrating.

Tony-

I am not sure where the lines blur there, either. Around here, there are restrictions, and sometimes they are backed up by law, and sometimes, I don't know for sure, one way or the other. If off the property, we usually have at least a few outside law enforcement personnel standing by to handle any issues that happen(or move outside the property lines or authorization). I know that some things may not actually happen on property, but are still under authorization, since they directly affect the facility, or the department's welfare- as a whole, but I have never had this issue come up. I would imagine that it would vary from location to location, but surely a kind letter to the Department Security Office at the state's capital requesting the general statute number would clear it right up. Might be a good thing to have on hand in such a situation, anyway.

[neil_r]

I don't know about in the US so I guess this is less than helpful, but in the UK photographing of any prison establishment is expressly forbidden and notices to that effect are displayed.

I can fully understand this as the prison contains several people who do not want to be there and there may very well be some people on the outside who will be willing to help them get out. Photo recognisance would be a useful tool to support that scenario.

------------------------------

Edit after a bit of thought. Just because you are taking innocent photographs of an interesting subject does not mean that the person taking photographs next to you has the same motives. I am really not in favour of everyone suffering because of of the behaviour of a limited number of individuals, the inability to take photographs at school events is a real shame, but I have no problem living with a restriction on photographing prisons, military establishments, dockyards etc.

A sad fact of life but this is the world we live in.......

[Pete]

I don't know about in the US so I guess this is less than helpful, but in the UK photographing of any prison establishment is expressly forbidden and notices to that effect are displayed.

I can fully understand this as the prison contains several people who do not want to be there and there may very well be some people on the outside who will be willing to help them get out. Photo recognisance would be a useful tool to support that scenario.

Yah.

The same goes for banks and other potential targets, wether they be for profit or for terrorism. Prevention of photography for the reasons of public and commercial safety is something that should be respected.

The best way of dealing with this is to ask permission first, it just makes sense to be polite about such things. If you get permission, you may also be able to access angles or locations that you might not have been able to before.

[neil_r]

In the UK recently, in 2 separate incidents, one couple were thrown out of a mall

AAARRGGGgggg we have "Malls" now. Where do I sign up to leave

[Pete]

AAARRGGGgggg we have "Malls" now. Where do I sign up to leave

It's ok, Neil. He mean "the" Mall.

You're safe.

[neil_r]

Not really in keeping with the subject at hand, but I just thought this might be interesting to view, for anybody who ever wondered why Corrections staff can be a little uptight...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-3gDRqQ3vY

Feel free to delete, if posting this is inappropriate.

The opening titles to the Video say "Things to considerate before you star a correction officer career"

Was that a joint effort between Dan Quayle and George W :-)

[BIG H]

Every once in a while we get someone taking pictures of our prison from the sidewalk / street. It's nothing to get our undies in a bundle about. I do keep watch over the area though - in case I sense a threat. Several wisconsin prisons are right in the middle of the city - with sidewalks right up against the walls. You can reach out and touch them. Someone will most likely be monitoring you. Minimum security inmates are usually working outside - yard work, snow shoveling etc.

Other states might have real or perceived security threats that they are worried about and must act accordingly. Prisons are not nice places!

[stathunter]

I have to agree that if they do not want people photographing prisions they should put them away and not out on public streets on the edge of town.
I am all for high security but when from a public street they bully you to stop taking pictures it is a violation of every freedom we have fought for in this country. Typically it is a matter of the agency acting tough but the laws typically favor the photographer. While I am not an attorney I have gone through similar things with police officials who try to act tough and tell me to give them my camera or "film". I simply ask them for their warrent. I always know the name of the police chief before I do anything that could lead to this. When you act like you know what you are doing and throw out names to back up yourself, most who try to stop you end up being your friend.
Get business cards printed out and carry them with you. Also fashion some type of ID and hang it around your neck. It make a huge amount of difference how you are treated. Even if you ID says" Tim Smith, Photographer for Tim Smith Photography

[neil_r]

I have to agree that if they do not want people photographing prisions they should put them away and not out on public streets on the edge of town.

LOL, no sorry i think you may be serious..... double LOL then.

Seems like a really good way to use tax dollars. Hay all we are relocating our prisons to the middle of nowhere so that photographers do not feel tempted to take pictures of them....

[JasonRussell]

....At mine....

Do you work at Rivers by any chance?

[Bootlegger0173]

PM sent.

[tonylong]

So, you in the UK who say it's against the law to take a pic from public property:

Does that really mean what you say? If you drive on a public road past a correctional institute and point your camera out the window to get a snapshot can they legally pull you over and confiscate your film/images?

That sounds unlikely in a "free" society -- not that there would not be over-zealous guards, but that it would hold up in court. I would imagine, though, that once on the property they would have the right to post signs prohibiting photography without a permit and to enforce such restrictions.

Again, I'm not trying to stir up controversy, but it seems like there is, in "free" societies, a distinction between a "public" (e.g. sidewalk) view and an "inside" view.

[JoYork]

UK Photographer's rights:

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php

I have a copy of this printed out which I keep on me at all times, just in case I ever run into any bother. It might just help diffuse a situation...

[justjoem]

This is a shot of the Oklahoma state prison museum with a prison tower and barbed wire in the background. In Oklahoma they are a little more permissive about pictures and such. In fact they seem to be encouraging tourism with a prison museum. There were a few quizzical looks and one wave from a guard, but no confrontation or questions when this picture was taken.
http://justjoem.smugmug.com/photos/106099248-L.jpg

[neil_r]

UK Photographer's rights:

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/ukpr.php

I have a copy of this printed out which I keep on me at all times, just in case I ever run into any bother. It might just help diffuse a situation...

That is a useful guide but the disclaimer is also quite important.