Newbie seeking advice D300 vs S1 IS

[funkypenguin]

Hi All,

In my early teens, my folks sent me on a photography course, where I learned a bit about photographic theory, rule-of-thirds, etc. I remember really enjoying the challenge of "capturing" a moment / feeling, playing with fun double-exposure / slow-shutter effects, etc...

However, since then, in my twenties, I've owned a few very limited P&S cameras (film and digital), and have quickly become bored / disillusioned with them, never really getting beyond poor, snapshotty photos.

I stumbled across a slashdot article about the D300 hack, and since then, have "re-kindled" my interest in (digital) photography...

I want...

... to take great photos of my friends / family / life, that I can show to my grandchildren in 30 years time...
... to capture the "feeling" of a moment, the beauty in every-day objects / situations
... to play. To fiddle. To take a "so-so" shot, and post-process it to make it into a "great" shot.
... to share in the "online photographic community".
... to learn
... to have fun :)

So my burning question is this... should I buy myself the "Canon S1 IS", or the "Canon Digital Rebel?"

To my mind, the pros of the S1 IS are as follows:

- More of a consumer P&S camera, easier for family and friends to participate in the photo / movie taking
- Handy flip-out LCD screen for taking shots at funny angles. Avoid nose-prints on the LCD.
- Takes AA batteries. (Don't want to be stuck on top of a mountain without a charger)
- Image stabilizer
- Takes movies. Might be handy, but not a big selling point at this stage


The cons are as follows:

- No RAW image files. Processing done on the camera. Less fiddling :(
- No "upgrade path", wrt lenses etc.


The pros of the D300, to my mind, are as follows:

- Very high-quality pictures
- Can fiddle with everything :)
- Can continue to get more advanced wrt flash boot, remote, lenses, etc.
- Can take me in any direction -> nature, art, portraits, candid, etc...


The cons are as follows:

- Canon-specific battery
- More than twice the price of the S1IS


So having explained all that, I was wondering if anybody could assist me in making an informed decision here... I think to myself... "should I play it safe, and buy the S1IS, where I may "bump my head on the ceiling of functionality?", or should I take a risk, spend a lot more money on the D300, which may be "too much camera for me"? "

Your thoughts / comments would be appreciated :)
- David

[DocFrankenstein]

This is the question for me. :lol:

I have both. I had the rebel for 3 months and the S1 IS for 5 month.

First I got the S1 IS, thinking that it will give me everything I will ever need in such a neat package. WRONG

In about a month I realised that there is NO WAY I'll be able to get blurred bokeh with the S1 IS like I would with an SLR+fast prime. It also doesn't have a flash shoe. It's not that fast... the noise levels are horrible unless you shoot in brightest situations... no raw... plasticly feel... the cap comes off... you need to invest in a 50 dollar adapter to buy filters...

So I went out and got the rebel. :lol: Boy was I happy. This was THE THING that I needed. 70-200 f/2.8 decisioin was much easier after the rebel buy. I am also waiting now on the 50mm 1.8 metal mount prime.

Fun stuff. Get the rebel... or better yet the 10D cause they're cheap now. The AF is worth it.

Whichever way you go... stay away from S1 IS. I used it 2 times since I got the rebel. Only to take pictures of the rebel. :? :lol:

[Vita Rara]

I'd agree with Doc. Get a dSLR. The dRebel is nice, I have one, but think about a 10D. You can get nice used ones, or close outs at local stores or online.

As I said I have a dRebel. It is nice, but knowing what I know now, after one year with the dRebel, I wish I had taken the hit and gotten a 10D. It's a much nicer camera.

So, my recomendation is decide between a used/new 10D or the 20D. If price is the issue then stretch and get the 10D. I think you'll be happy.

Mark

[roanjohn]

Get the Rebel..............tis will be more rewarding in the long run if you master it.

It is also more versatile......and the image quality will be 100X better than the S1.

Trust me on this.

BTW, check out the market place, a lot of used Rebels for sale for maybe a few hundred dollars more than the S1.

.............In fact, my Rebel will probably be up there soon...........;-)

Ro1

[mdude85]

I want to address some of your points and offer an opinion

To my mind, the pros of the S1 IS are as follows:

- More of a consumer P&S camera, easier for family and friends to participate in the photo / movie taking: a lot of people these days have digital cameras ... don't buy a digital camera because you are afraid other people don't know how to use it. If they can't use yours, they can use their own or they have a bunch of friends who have digital cameras.
- Handy flip-out LCD screen for taking shots at funny angles. Avoid nose-prints on the LCD. -- yes, can be useful. You have to look through the viewfinder in an SLR.
- Takes AA batteries. (Don't want to be stuck on top of a mountain without a charger) -- then buy an extra dSLR battery or two ... you can get them on Ebay for $5 each. I don't quite see how buying extra AA batteries is different than buying extra SLR batteries?
- Image stabilizer -- regardless of the image stabilization, you're still dealing with the low quality of a P&S versus a DSLR.
- Takes movies. Might be handy, but not a big selling point at this stage -- it can be useful, but when you're carrying around an SLR and a bunch of equipment, the last thing on your mind is taking a movie. You want to take a picture.


The cons are as follows:

- No RAW image files. Processing done on the camera. Less fiddling :( -- Your stance is very interesting -- it seems like you don't want the best quality picture out of the camera that you can get. Kind of a weird opinion.
- No "upgrade path", wrt lenses etc. -- yes.


The pros of the D300, to my mind, are as follows:

- Very high-quality pictures -- yes
- Can fiddle with everything :) -- yes, if you get the hack.
- Can continue to get more advanced wrt flash boot, remote, lenses, etc. -- yes, but remember all of these are going to add to the expense of your hobby.
- Can take me in any direction -> nature, art, portraits, candid, etc... -- actually the S1 can do this pretty well with just its internal lens. Last nite a friend of mine and I went into a basketball stadium to take some abstract photos, panoramas, etc. While I was fiddling with my camera, having to hold my bag and keep replacing wide angle lens, with prime, with zoom, to get the shots I wanted, he was snapping away with his Kodak digital P&S...he was able to get very wide and have a decent amount of zoom at his fingertips, without switching lenses.


The cons are as follows:

- Canon-specific battery -- is this really a con worth considering?
- More than twice the price of the S1IS -- this is true. The S1 is a pretty good camera for the price.


So having explained all that, I was wondering if anybody could assist me in making an informed decision here... I think to myself... "should I play it safe, and buy the S1IS, where I may "bump my head on the ceiling of functionality?", or should I take a risk, spend a lot more money on the D300, which may be "too much camera for me"? "

Your thoughts / comments would be appreciated :)
- David[/quote]

If you really want to get into photography, I'd get the dSLR. I first started out with a small Nikon P&S and then advanced to DSLR. Just remember that when you get an IS, essentially, your purchasing is finished. When you get the DSLR, you'll want to keep purchasing and purchasing and purchasing. But at least you can.

[DocFrankenstein]

I know one penguin from toronto... whereabouts are you from ? :lol: :wink:

[Perfect_10]

Doc .. what is a NeXXtech 4 feet tripod ?? is it a 4 foot tripod .. or a 4 feet quadpod ?? :lol: :lol:

funkypenguin .. seriously, I would grab the 10D .. I was in the same place some months back .. should I get the S1 IS, D300, or 10D ?? I knew the 20D (or whatever) would be out there soon, but still chose the 10D solely due to quality and proven track record .. there will be issues with the 20D for some time .. wrinkles that need to be ironed out, plus the price will be up there for some time. 10D's are very affordable at the moment.

[DocFrankenstein]

Doc .. what is a NeXXtech 4 feet tripod ?? is it a 4 foot tripod .. or a 4 feet quadpod ?? :lol: :lol:

DOH!

[funkypenguin]

mdude85:
- No RAW image files. Processing done on the camera. Less fiddling Sad -- Your stance is very interesting -- it seems like you don't want the best quality picture out of the camera that you can get. Kind of a weird opinion.

What I meant by that is that part of the attraction to photography, for me, is the ability / desire to improve upon what I've taken. For example, if I had a "magical camera", that always took the perfect picture, I would be bored very quickly. Does that make sense?

Doc : I know one penguin from toronto... whereabouts are you from ?

This penguin is from South Africa :) (Where digital cameras are very expensive!) :shock:


So, we've eliminated the S1IS - the question remains, 300D or 10D... (the next question will be "buy the kit, or buy the body-with-which-lens?") ;)

[Perfect_10]

....So, we've eliminated the S1IS - the question remains, 300D or 10D... (the next question will be "buy the kit, or buy the body-with-which-lens?") ;)

Then I'll answer them both at the same time :wink: .. gotta be the 10D w/o kit lens (not that the EF-s would fit anyway) :lol: :lol:

[CoolToolGuy]

Go with the 300D to start. It will give you a lot of capability and you will probably need some time to outgrow it. By then there will be new, more wonderful choices out there.

If you don't want to get one used with the lens, go for the body alone and get Canon's new EF-S 17-85 IS lens. It will give you a great range from wide-angle to short telephoto, and it includes Image Stabilization.

Don't worry about the battery issue. The battery in the 300D is a standard that Canon uses in all of the recent 1.6 crop factor DSLRs, as well as some of the 'G' series, and some of their camcorders. I think it will be around for a while, and it can be used elsewhere (like that G6 you will find yourself wanting in a couple of months to supplement the 300D :roll: )

Have Fun,

[mdude85]

Correct me if I am wrong -- your idea of fiddling is to take a so-so picture in the camera, and post process it in a graphics editor to make it a great picture?

I think the goal is to improve your photographic knowledge so that you can use the tools the camera has to offer in order to take the perfect picture even before you transfer the photo to your computer. The magical camera which takes the perfect picture is the one where you apply the knowledge you have with photography to the settings the camera gives you. Therefore taking a "bad" picture and then doing all sorts of color adjustments to it in Photoshop kind of defeats the purpose of having a camera which has fully manual functions. You may as well just keep whatever camera you have now ... it takes "So-So" pictures just fine. :?

[xdjoynerx]

s1 is junk

300d all the way!

[DocFrankenstein]

s1 is junk
Hey there!

Where's the "middle finger" emoticon ? :lol: :lol: :wink:

[funkypenguin]

Therefore taking a "bad" picture and then doing all sorts of color adjustments to it in Photoshop kind of defeats the purpose of having a camera which has fully manual functions. You may as well just keep whatever camera you have now ... it takes "So-So" pictures just fine.

When you say it, it sounds bad :) No, my idea of fiddling is to have full control over / responsibility for how the picture comes out... I want to take the best possible photos, no doubt, and I want them to be good because *I* took them well, not because the camera auto-sharpened/processed the pictures for me...

[Perfect_10]

When you say it, it sounds bad :) No, my idea of fiddling is to have full control over / responsibility for how the picture comes out... I want to take the best possible photos, no doubt, and I want them to be good because *I* took them well, not because the camera auto-sharpened/processed the pictures for me...

.. isn't that what most photo labs have been doing for you up until now (I presume you've shot film) :wink:

You buy the best camera (Tool) that your money can buy .. if it helps in the processing then that will save you some work later.