HELP!! I'm a newbie....

[LivLuvAndBootlegMusic]

Hi! I'm 20/female from Grand Rapids, Michigan. I was saving for a laptop, but I'm going to Tanzania for a month this winter and decided to get a nice camera instead. I've never owned a camera besides the cheap kind. I'm pretty good with digital cameras since I borrow them all the time. My dad has an old SLR and on his I know how to do the focus, light meter, and shutter speed, but I've never used a zoom or flash with an SLR. Anyway, like I said, I'm going to Africa for a month and would like to get a really good camera (I have about $900 saved for the laptop I can use for the camera instead). I really have no clue what I'm looking for, I just Googled for "photography message board". I would love to get a really good digital camera, but we won't really have electricity so I'd have to pack in a month's worth of battery power (I dunno, maybe you can get special long-lasting batteries?). I could get an SLR instead, but I don't know anything about putting lenses on, etc. My boss has done some photography as a hobby for 35 years and he says I need something called a polarizer. I will be taking LOTS of pictures and it will be hot, sunny, and dusty (we will be in rural villages and on safari for a few days).

If anyone has any tips on specific cameras or accessories, or any opinion on digital v. SLR, please advize!

[Jon]

I'd say go film, an inexpensive Canon (of course) SLR (Rebel) with the basic zoom lens and a telephoto going through at least 300 mm. For your budget, that'd probably be the Rebel K2 or Ti with 28-90 ($200-$250), and the 100-300 or 75-300 ($250-$400 (if you go with image stabilized 75-300)). Image stabilized will help if you're trying to photograph when it's not real bright out or from a moving vehicle. That'll leave you with a couple of hundred for accessories (polarizer, electronic flash).

A digital SLR would break your budget right away, and you'd still need to get lenses and storage for all the pictures. Unless you're going to be on safari or smaller villages, I don't imagine that power will be too much of a problem even with digital cameras, but storage will be unless you have something (another couple of hundred dollars, minimum) to back things up to. If you had access to a computer with CD-ROM burner, or someone else will be bringing a laptop you could download your pictures to, a PowerShot S1 or Pro might meet your immediate needs, though (the S1 in particular) you might outgrow it once you start doing a lot of photography. But if you're going out on the savannah, you'll want a long lens for the animals. The S1 is cheap enough (under $400) that you could buy a "digital wallet" with a viewscreen, so you can verify that your pictures were saved, without breaking the budget, and it also uses AA batteries (although alkalines generally don't last well on digital cameras - Li AAs or NiMH rechargables are better).

[Conk]

I'd have to agree with Jon's suggestion of going with film. It does have it's advantages. Even with a inexpensive digital you need to think about storage.

[stopbath]

It's tough choice. I would likely lean towards a digital compact camera that provides good optical zoom (do not let digital zoom get into the mix)
Also, a camera with protection against dust and water would be a bonus (though not a requirement.)

Some battery chargers can operate off a car lighter port allowing you to charge batteries while driving.

Also, perhaps you could borrow your dads camera and pack a few rolls of film. This way, you could operate digital and film...

With digital, it woud be good to be able to download the pictures to some device, or else take extra memory cards...

Good luck on your quest and journey....

[robertwgross]

When I visited Kenya and Tanzania, I had my Canon film Rebel with a couple of lenses and then another 35mm P&S film camera for backup. There are some places where you can find AC power, but you can't count on them being where you need them. So, the whole idea of a digital camera with rechargeable batteries gets awkward.

If I were going again today, I would go with my Canon D60 for most use and my Canon film Rebel for backup. However, my lens selection is better now. If you see game animals way out there, you would need something like 400mm to get there, and that is not done very well on a tight budget.

When at a safari camp, each day we would load up in vehicles and drive around looking for the wild animals. Then after lunch back in camp, we would go for a walk and let the animals look for us! For walking, the lightweight and simple camera might pay off.

---Bob Gross---

[LivLuvAndBootlegMusic]

When I visited Kenya and Tanzania, I had my Canon film Rebel with a couple of lenses and then another 35mm P&S film camera for backup. There are some places where you can find AC power, but you can't count on them being where you need them. So, the whole idea of a digital camera with rechargeable batteries gets awkward.



Yeah, exactly. We're not going to be staying in hotels or universities; we're going to study grassroots organizations in small, impoverished villages. Even if I HAD an adapter and access to electricity, I doubt it would be any longer than an hour or two. I know someone who went two years ago and she said they were barely any place with toilets, let alone electricity.

Anyway, so I'm feeling like the general concensus here is SLR? I'm getting mixed messages b/c my boss who's been into photography for 35 years says he got a decent digital (didn't even spend $300) and will never go back to SLR. I'm torn b/c I want this to be a camera I can continue using and I LOVE having a digital just for taking pics of my cats, stuff I'm selling, a day at the beach, whatever pops up. Plus I can use Photoshop on the digital images if I need to (my aunt took some shots of my bro for his Sr. pics and I had to change some of the color, remove some acne, etc). Some people even suggested to get both which I guess I could do since I've got the money aside already. Like I could use the SLR for pics that I'd eventually want to blow up (like cool animals, architecture) and just use a simple digital for taking random snapshots and group pics.

[ilya]

Mint used digital rebels (300D) WITH kit lens are about $700. I've seen one for $575 without kit lens. A long-ish 75-300mm is about $130. There was a listing with exactly this setup on fredmiranda.com. They may likely even go lower, the 20D is causing a flood of digital rebels. You can bring maybe 5 batteries ($20 each) with you and a car charger - you will be going there in car presumably.

Problem is the memory. that will cost you a bit.

So you will likely go over your budget, but you will be digital. Seems like a waste to spend money on a cheap film camera when you can do it right the first time. Learning curve is much better as well. For a safari, you wont' need a flash, nor do you really need a polarizer. Your issues will be learning how to use your equipment, and learning the basics of photography. Just depends if you want to continue after your safari.

[Jon]

SLR, and film, only because there's not going to be any reliable way to recharge batteries or to download files from the CF. I went digital from a mass of 35 mm SLR and haven't looked back, but if I were looking at probability of wanting to make a lot of photos over a fairly short time, I would pull out the old F-1, or maybe even as late as the T90 (which runs on AA cells).

[Ogrt48]

Yes, that listing on FM you're talking about is mine I believe.. it's also posted here in the market place if you want to take a look at it.. I love this camera but I'll never pay it off :(

[robertwgross]

Look at it this way. We've already established that finding AC power over there is a problem. You can try to carry enough spare BP-511's to keep a digital camera operating for a month, but that will be a problem. I would try to do that myself, but that is only that I am a glutton for punishment sometimes in the electrical department.

The obvious solution is to buy a Canon EOS film camera body and a couple of decent Canon EF lenses. You take your trip and shoot a dozen or two dozen rolls of film at the animals.

Later on, after your return, if you decide that you really want to convert to digital photography, then you get to re-use the EF lenses on whatever Canon EOS digital body you choose at that time. There is nothing wasted. Lots of digital shooters keep a film camera hidden in the bag for backup purposes.

---Bob Gross---

[ilya]

I missed the "month" part. Guess I should read more carefully. Agreed with the foregoing then.

UNLESS .....

http://www.tow.com/photo/articles/solar_charger/

[robertwgross]

I've been down this road before. Solar chargers can work effectively and practically as long as they are semi-permanently mounted in one place for a while. Safari camps in Tanzania may not be the best place for that. Solar panels that are portable tend to grow feet and walk off. Tanzania is a very poor country.

---Bob Gross---

[ilya]

I did a 2 week holiday in Kenya a few years back. We had generator-powered electricity at the 4 or so lodges we stayed at. I had a point and shoot camera, and took maybe a roll of poorly focused pictures. We were chased by a big angry elephant. What's the point to all that. None whatsoever, this is a general chat forum, so I'm just sharing.
Ilya

[robertwgross]

I stayed at one safari camp in southeastern Kenya. They had a great solar power plant consisting of sixteen 85-watt solar panels all permanently mounted and facing up (it is very near the Equator, so sun angle is up). There was a huge charge controller feeding big wet-cell batteries, and then there was an inverter to produce 220VAC 50Hz power that was distributed to the guest quarters. So, if I only needed to plug in one little battery charger, that was fine. An installation like that is very expensive, but for that kind of camp facility, it was good.

For one photographer, I'm not sure if little roll-up solar panels are worth the expense. For one thing, the flexible panels are the lowest for efficiency and cost-effectiveness (watts per dollar). The big rigid panels are much better for efficiency and cost-effectiveness, but nobody would want to transport one around without a truck.

---Bob Gross---

[LivLuvAndBootlegMusic]

Some things to keep in mind:

The purpose of our trip is to study the people and their development (not meant to be a photo-journalistic opportunity). This is a sort of cross between a class (I get 3 credits) and mission project. I'm not sure about all this "solar panel" stuff b/c we'll be moving to a new village almost every day. We'll be on safari for 4 days but I know already that we're not camping in the park (I don't remember the reason).

Here's a more specific question.....say I went with a good digital camera. I don't need the pics to have resolutions any greater than what would be needed for a 3 x 5 (but maybe a FEW pics for blowing up). If I want to keep on average 20 pics per day and I'm there for three weeks, what am I looking at as far as memory cards and their cost? Also, what megapixel?

I'm going to e-mail my Professors and ask them about the electricity situation and what types of cameras people usually bring....

[Jon]

I think you may find yourself taking more pictures than you expect, being in a different environment, especially if you go digital, since it only costs more if you make a print - no development costs.
Almost any 2 MP camera would be able to handle up to 5x7 prints easily, and 8 x 10 with a bit of care. A 1 GB card would handle 750-1000 pictures at that size, although I'd be inclined to get 2 512 MB cards over 1 1 GB card (and multiples accordingly for more). If you got a Canon A95, say, (5 MP, $400) at max. resolution, you could get 300 on a 1 GB card ($120-$200). If you knew you weren't going to want to blow something up past 5x7, you could shift to a lower resolution, and smaller file size (M2 - 1600x1200, 1 MB per). The A95 uses AA cells, so you could get a couple of spare sets of Energizer Lithium AAs to see you through (they're the Energizer 2 Blue ones) at $10 per set of 4. There are add-on telephoto and wide angle adapters available, too. So
PowerShot A95 $400
2x 1 GB CF cards $350
3 sets AA Lithium cells $30
Lens Adapter $20
Telephoto Auxiliary lens $100
Wide Auxiliary Lens $100

Total - about $1000 + tax/shipping

As Robert Gross said, though, getting a film EOS SLR and lenses, you could continue to use the lenses on a digital EOS later, and a spare body's always good to have. Whatever you get - have spare batteries! And if possible get aone that uses common battery types (AA are much more available than 2CR5, CR123, etc. that many cameras use)

[robertwgross]

... And if possible get aone that uses common battery types (AA are much more available than 2CR5, CR123, etc. that many cameras use)

I've been to some interesting third-world countries and I've seen camera batteries of all kinds in the shop windows there. Some of my fellow travelers neglected to take proper spare batteries from home, so they felt forced to buy batteries in some shop in Kathmandu (I'm not kidding).

They bought batteries and then later discovered that the batteries were dead, even though they appeared to be in factory packages. In some cases, the batteries had been purchased previously, used, and then carefully returned to the package for resale to the gullible. In other cases, the batteries were unused, but they had been sitting on a shelf for many years. It takes a lot of years to completely run a lithium primary battery, but still ...

The moral is: take plenty of fresh batteries from home.

---Bob Gross---

[LivLuvAndBootlegMusic]

Thanks guys. I sent this to my Professor:

Hi, I'm going on the Tanzania interim. I have two questions:

1) Will we have access to electricity?

2) Do you know what type of cameras people usually take (digital vs. film/SLR)?

I'm going to get a nice camera and the dilema is this: I'm inexperienced with using fancy SLR cameras and film, but with a digital, you need lots of extra battery power. If I could sometimes use re-chargeable batteries, I'm more inclined to purchase the digital camera. If there will be no access to electricity, I'd rather get a film camera b/c it's lighter to carry lots of film than lots of AA batteries.


and he responded with (English is not his first language, btw):

We shall talk more about this in our meetings. But for now I would like you to keep in mind that you will need a good camera with facilities for zooming because of animals, who are likely to far from us. I know this for sure because this summer I went with friends from our local church here, and the one who had a digital with zoom camera got the best pictures of animals. But he would have had problems if he did not have extra batteries to use when he could not recharge batteries in the wilderness. Another had a normal camera with a zoom. She did not get good pictures of animals for two reasons: one, the zoom was not so powerful, and two her quality of camera was not good. But she had no problem with batteries because she could get AAA batteries evey where. Please do not forget that we shall have no electricity in the national parks and some of the villages we shall visit. We shall have electricity in the cities we shall be sleeping in. Also be advised that the the voltage used in East Africa is 220 not 120. You willl therefore need travel convertors. If you have a digital camera you need to have at least two rechargeable batteries because if you have one rechargeable battery and its gives way, you would not be able to get the nice pictures of animals. This happened to me last summer.

I am also hoping that some of you will have access to movie cameras. They are very helpful.

I hope this helps you. But do not buy until we meet again.


So I guess I'm holding off on a decision until we have the next meeting. I'll continue to window shop and drool though!

[robertwgross]

Later on, once you have made your camera decisions, you will need to practice with the rig before you go. Practice shooting either zoo animals or farm animals or something, so you know what your equipment is going to do, and you can see the results, whether that is digital or film.

Also, try to find out whether you will be flying through Nairobi, Dar Es Salaam, or Arusha. There is an excellent giraffe-only zoo near the Nairobi airport.

---Bob Gross---

[LivLuvAndBootlegMusic]

We'll be going in and out of Arusha (Amsterdam before that).

Gosh, I want to get one NOW and start practicing! Especially since I have a very young kitten and she gets bigger every day. *tweedles thumbs*

[robertwgross]

Arusha is interesting. The Kilimanjaro Airport is there. There is a photogenic marketplace downtown with lots of color. Unfortunately, it is also a good place for a pickpocket to swipe your camera, so stay close to your traveling friends.

Shooting at a kitten is one way to start practicing for wildlife. Try the neighborhood dog, or anything that moves fast. When you return from Africa, you might have fouled up a lot of wildlife photos, but you are required to get at least one good one of giraffes and one of zebras. Extra credit for wildebeest. If you get one of a cheetah, then we put you into training for the National Geographic Magazine.

---Bob Gross---

[LivLuvAndBootlegMusic]

Arusha is interesting. The Kilimanjaro Airport is there. There is a photogenic marketplace downtown with lots of color.

Sweet! I'm more excited about taking pictures of the people and the culture than the animals. I know the animals will be cool, but I tend to get overly obsessed about things and I know that if I worry about taking good animal pics, I won't even be able to enjoy just seeing the animals. I keep reminding myself, we're there to study the people, not the animals. If my animal pics suck, I can always go online and look at the same animal in the same park!

On animal I do want a pic of is the lion. the Professors say that for some reason at the time of the year we're going the lions will be climbing trees.

[robertwgross]

People?

Maybe fifty years ago, many westerners began traveling into some third-world countries. The Brits were famous for going into Nepal, and they wanted to give something to the poor little kids along the trail, so they gave them chocolate. Well, that wasn't such a good idea, what with the lack of dental hygiene there and complete lack of dentistry. After a long time, travelers were actually told not to give candy of any type to the kids.

When I went on my first visit there, I really wanted to do something to engage the kids. But, I didn't want to give them candy or anything quite as bad as that. I wanted to engage them somehow so that I could maybe get a good photo. (Remember, that is a priority here.)

I didn't want to take anything that was expensive, and I didn't want to take anything that was bulky. I thought about it and had the idea: rubber bands. I took a whole bag of rubber bands. Then, I would be walking along some trail with my camera, and I would see three little kids over there playing with sticks in the mud. I would fire a rubber band at them, and it was great. The kids were so technologically undeveloped that only about one kid out of three could figure out how to fire a rubber band. It was great fun watching them play with a simple rubber band, so that is when the camera came out. Consider it.

In Tanzania, I took rubber bands and also a handful of picture postcards from home. I took pictures of domestic livestock from home to show to the poor farmers over there. They related to it.

---Bob Gross---

[Andy_T]

Bootleg,

from the reply you got from your professor I read that you are going to sleep in cities?

Is that correct? How often will you do that? Every other day? Once a week?
If you have access to electricity once a week, that might be sufficient if you get some BP511 batteries and use them sparingly. On my G2, I get about 300 photographs (RAW) from a single charge when I don't use the display and flash too much. So if you have 3-4 fully charged BP-511 batteries (the more the better), that should last for a week in the field. The Canon chargers have no problem with 220 V.

As far as storage space is concerned, There are 3 options:
- More CF cards
- an 'Imagetank' product that allows you to download the pictures to the internal hard disk
- a CD burner like the Apacer disk steno that copies the contents of your CF card to CD-Roms.

As camera, I would think about the Digital Rebel with the kit lens (18-55) and a longer lens (like the 55-200, 75-300 or 70-200/4L)

Best regards,
Andy

[Jon]

If I read your original post right, you're looking at about $1000 for your photo needs. Between a DSLR, at least 2 lenses (say 18-55 on a Digital Rebel / 28-90 on any other Canon DSLR, and a 75-300), a couple of batteries (400 pictures each), a couple of 1 GB CF cards, and some way of storing imnages from the CF cards when they fill up, you'd have a hard time staying under that, unless camera and lenses are used. Unless you've got access to a computer at home, you'll need to send out for prints, too.

Film, you can get new equipment, you'll have the lenses for a later DSLR, and be significantly less dependent on a power supply. You can also spread out the cost a bit, since the processing isn't an up-front expense.

For photographing people at work/play (or wildlife on the move), you'll want the faster response of the SLR (either film or digital). P&S, it often feels like a second delay between pressing the shutter button and the actual shutter release. The SLR will also handle faster ISO speeds, which can be very helpful with low light or fast-moving subjects.