Why so reluctant to deal Internationally?

[FUBAR247]

Why are most of you Americans/Canadians reluctant to sell internationally? with todays technology it can be just as quick to post Internationally as is is from one State to another, most times you will be dealing with a cash transaction via bank transfer so no fear of getting shafted there. OK it might take a couple of days longer for a payment to clear but surely no-one is selling anything that urgent they can't wait a few days longer for a payment to clear.

There is actually more oportunity for a buyer to get shafted by a seller than the other way around, but if everyone takes care in what they do it would open up a whole new market place for everyone.

or is it as some people seem to suggest that most Americans dont believe there is actually a world beyond their own shores just waiting to be explored ;)

[slappy sam]

I'm not reluctant to deal internationally. Most of the time it is much cheaper for me to buy from the U.S. so I do so. But I did buy my Lee filters from England because the price was a bit better and they had them in stock.

[cosworth]

I've never seen a Canuck unwilling to do business outside the country.

This is imho a strictly American issue. It's a pet peeve of mine.

[deadpass]

why should us americans deal outside of the country when we can sell for top dollar here in the states?

[Pete]

I've bought plenty of things from the US (thanks Ronald!!! :D ). I think that it's mainly the hassle of sending things international.

[Tom W]

I've dealt with people in Canada before, without issue. Though there is that customs issue, which I think can be a bit of a hindrance at times. That and the fact that it's generally necessary to ship through the postal service due to the artificial cost barriers that have been set up for other carriers like UPS and FedEx. The government hates a monopoly unless that monopoly is its own.

It's just much easier, and less expensive to ship in-country.

[Pete]

why should us americans deal outside of the country when we can sell for top dollar here in the states?

We Euros pay the prices you want. We don't expect discounts for overseas deals. We may bargain a little, but we'd do the exact same thing buying from people in our own country.

We pay a huge amount for postage, and the subsequent customs charges (if the seller happens to be accurate about what's in the box and the value of it).

[condyk]

As long as a seller can get trackable and insured shipping I see no reason why not. Duty and VAT is the buyers problem. As Pete says the US is likely to get asking price or higher. I have shipped to several countries and never had a problem. The only reasons why someone would choose not to are things like risk aversion, ignorance, xenophobia, laziness and other such personal issues. Nothing to be done about such things.

[Karl C]

Because I don't want to deal with customs issues/paperwork and lost shipment problems. Almost three years as a FedEx courier taught me all I didn't want to know about international shipments.

[SoaringUSAEagle]

I dont deal internationally because of customs. Every time I have an international buyer, they want me to claim that my item is worth $15 when it is really worth well over $1000+ so if that baby gets lost, I get back a whopping $15. I dont think so. At least this is how I understand it anyway, correct me if I am wrong.

[condyk]

So don't sell to people like that ... what is the big deal in saying no!? Sell to honest buyers, just like at home, rather than people trying to defraud customs :-)

[SoaringUSAEagle]

So don't sell to people like that ... what is the big deal in saying no!? Sell to honest buyers, just like at home, rather than people trying to defraud customs :-)

I dont sell to people like that. It doesnt screw just customs.... It screws me as well if something goes wrong.

Either way, I dont like the hassle of shipping internationally.

[mellowd]

I've sent internationally and it takes an estimated 10 minutes longer than shipping local here in the UK. If the seller is willing to pay you the same price as well as the shipping charge then it's just the same as sending locally

[Becca]

I wouldn't have any problem selling internationally, as long as the buyer was willing to pay the shipping. The paperwork to send internationally takes about 2 minutes to fill out. No big deal. In fact, I sent something in the holiday give-away to Cananda. To be honest, I don't really understand the reluctance either.

[Choderboy]

Why are most of you Americans/Canadians reluctant to sell internationally? with todays technology it can be just as quick to post Internationally as is is from one State to another, most times you will be dealing with a cash transaction via bank transfer so no fear of getting shafted there. OK it might take a couple of days longer for a payment to clear but surely no-one is selling anything that urgent they can't wait a few days longer for a payment to clear.

There is actually more oportunity for a buyer to get shafted by a seller than the other way around, but if everyone takes care in what they do it would open up a whole new market place for everyone.

or is it as some people seem to suggest that most Americans dont believe there is actually a world beyond their own shores just waiting to be explored ;)

Well when their president visited Australia recently he did thank our Austrian troops!

[Mum2J&M]

Customs. Nothing to do with anti-rest-of-the-world. Not a holier-than-thou American thing. Just trying to save myself the hassle of lost items and lost money. Don't have to be American to grasp this concept.

[cosworth]

why should us americans deal outside of the country when we can sell for top dollar here in the states?


Sell body x for $1000.00 to an American, plus shipping and paypal.


Sell body x for $1000.00 to a Foreign, plus shipping and paypal.


Does your brain have a logic chip installed?

Customs? The shipper fills out a piece of paper. Are sellers THAT lazy?

[mellowd]

Lost items and lost money? Sending locally and sending internationally you have the same insurance options so where's the problem?

[condyk]

Agreed ... takes me maybe 30 seconds to a minute max extra to send overseas. Also, if the US guys buy a lens, use it and can then sell to an overseas buyer at the price you paid then win-win. Stuff over here costs a lot more, which is the only reason people would want to buy from US people I assume, as more hassle and risk for buyer with VAT/Duty potentially to pay on top.

But this topic has been covered many times and my conclusion is it is an irrational thing for them so not worth wasting time discussing with those who are anti selling overseas. I have easy bought n100+ things from overseas and never had a single issue. Have sent maybe 20 items out and the same applies.

[cosworth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectionism

Be mindful that although not an excuse, it is an American ideal, that really doesn't wash in this day and age.

I've seen many items for sale, I've offered selling price, no low ball and have been turned down only to see the seller have to drop price or wait out a sale for a week or more.

I even have an American shipping address, but a Canuck paypal account. Still no go. Heaps of good feedback on ebay and FM to boot. My only negative feedback on ebay have come from Americans who :

A. were pissed that US customs opened their item
B. were pissed when I refused to send cash after they found out I was Canadian

I've sold my products worldwide and I still really can't understand it. I tried to buy a heater valve for my Jag once. This place in TN would not ship to me and I wanted it shipped overnight. Valid Visa card etc. Nope. I tried to buy a watch on eBay. Wouldn't ship outside the country. WTF?

My 1Ds Mk.II ? What a freaking nightmare! I bought it online and the guy wouldn't ship it until the money "cleared". Paypal explicity says that is a no-no. I filed a complaint and left negative feedback. A month later I got my Camera and he gave ME negative feedback. I am SO glad the CDN dollar has been stronger than the US dollar as of late, I can buy locally with areasonable prices and not have to deal with goof selling ideas. BUT - there are some US sellers that have been GREAT!

I've sold laptops to France, lenses to Belgium, bodies to the UK. No problems EVER. Only BUYING from Americans.

Realize that most eBay scams come from within the USA. Not outside.

[Karl C]

So we've gone from posts regarding Americans refusing to sell/ship internationally, which BTW is their right and prerogative, to being labeled protectionist?

For some of us, we don't want to deal with customs no matter how little time is involved with paperwork. Again, that is the seller's prerogative. I have my own FedEx account and ship exclusively with them. I pack the item, attach the waybill, and drop it off at FedEx. No waiting in line. And I refuse to ship via USPS. When it comes to shipping expensive items, I want positive tracking throughout the entire transit time enroute.

I understand why it's more financially beneficial for Europeans to import from the US. However, if a US-based seller refuses to ship internationally, buy the item elsewhere.

[mellowd]

So we've gone from posts regarding Americans refusing to sell/ship internationally, which BTW is their right and prerogative, to being labeled protectionist?

For some of us, we don't want to deal with customs no matter how little time is involved with paperwork. Again, that is the seller's prerogative. I have my own FedEx account and ship exclusively with them. I pack the item, attach the waybill, and drop it off at FedEx. No waiting in line. And I refuse to ship via USPS. When it comes to shipping expensive items, I want positive tracking throughout the entire transit time enroute.

I understand why it's more financially beneficial for Europeans to import from the US. However, if a US-based seller refuses to ship internationally, buy the item elsewhere.

This is what the OP was asking. Why is it that Americans are lazy in this regard. Anyone in the world has their own prerogative not to ship outside their own borders yet most do. The trend changes when buying from Americans where most refuse to do so, though not all. I can buy from all over the world with little hassle but whenever I need to get something from the US there is always some sort of issue involved

[cosworth]

Protectionism is the reason Americans don't do business overseas. What part of that don't you get?

Being Protectionist isn't a label it's a practise. It's an OLD way of doing business, not a racist or slanderous remark.

I work in international business and it's pretty clear for me that business that make it do business outside the US. With the US dollar doing so badly right now export businesses can be reaping HUGE rewards and camera equipment sellers can ask HIGHER prices to international buyers since their purchasing power is higher with a deflated US dollar....


You guys do read business news or news for that matter and understand how this all works right? Lower US dollar = increased exports. That goes for ANY export. I'm seeing really good opportunities on the East coast for exporters who sell internationally on their websites. By seeing I mean that I track them by SIC code and I analyze growth patterns for my channel to focus on.

Bottom line is that there ARE plenty of sellers in the US that WILL sell outside the US, but the people that don't are missing out on selling fat and for their asking price or damn near close to it. These sellers who don't are most likely to not be able to find Canada on a map.


Here's a great example of how some of us see it:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d5uKHNtiqWw

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GuyfmvnwoG8

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BhTZ_tgMUdo

[SeattleSpeedster]

i think theres the fraud component as well...if things go poorly, it can be harder to get your money back.

[HarleyQuinn]

Does your brain have a logic chip installed?



Jeez Cos, who pissed in your Wheaties this morning?



I personally will sell and ship overseas. I don't prefer it though. To me, it's more of a fraud issue. Do I believe that everyone overseas falls into the Nigerian Uncle category? No. I do however feel safer havng to deal with things in country if problems arise during a transaction. I understand American laws and statutes alot better than I do foreign ones.

[SeattleSpeedster]

I bring up the fraud issue because there was a recent example on this forum of several members losing five figures to a scammer in the UK. Guy closed his paypal acct down, took the cash and was gone.

In the end nothing beats a local craigslist deal

[cosworth]

It's not that someone pissed in my wheaties... it's that I have had time after time issues dealing with American sellers.

I buy a lot of stuff online.

At least I'm passionate about something. It is AMAZING to me for someone to turn down a sale from a reputable buyer.

[timbernet]

Jeez Cos, who pissed in your Wheaties this morning?


:-D

[cdifoto]

I'll ship anywhere as long as you can Confirm your PayPal address AND a trackable+insurable method of shipment is available to your location. If any of those isn't possible, I won't sell to you. Period. Same applies to anyone within the USA. It has to do with covering my ass, not hating your country or the perceived hassle. Photography gear is expensive.

[HarleyQuinn]

See red.

It's not that someone pissed in my wheaties... it's that I have had time after time issues dealing with American sellers.

I appreciate that fact. You have more experience than the run of the mill Mom or Pop who rarely sells online. Were I to go out of my way to research and learn more about international shipping, I'm sure I'd feel more comfortable doing it. However, I don't have a need to, so I most likely won't. That being said, I won't look down upon, call lazy and basically stupid anyone who doesn't bother learning to do something that doesn't apply to their daily life a skill I happen to be proficient at.

I buy a lot of stuff online.

Good for you. I do to. From America.

At least I'm passionate about something.

And being passionate about shipping to the level of berating someone who doesn't share your parcel passion is something to feel good about?
It is AMAZING to me for someone to turn down a sale from a reputable buyer.


Just as it's amazing to me to hear someones power of logic being called into question because of their personal choice to sell items in their own country. :rolleyes:

[cdifoto]

My 1Ds Mk.II ? What a freaking nightmare! I bought it online and the guy wouldn't ship it until the money "cleared". Paypal explicity says that is a no-no. I filed a complaint and left negative feedback.

This is absurd on your part. PayPal explicitly says to NOT ship until a payment has cleared and it makes perfect sense!

Yeah, bad on the seller for waiting until he actually had been paid for the expensive camera. Boo hoo.

What you fail to understand as a buyer and perhaps infrequent seller (or one who has been fortunate enough to have no bumps along the way) is that YOU as a BUYER have credit card protection! You can call up your CC and cancel anything at any time! As a seller, we have NO way to protect ourselves! A payment can be claimed as fraudulent after we've long shipped the item and the ONLY way we can be safe with PayPal is to ship to a CONFIRMED address WITH TRACKING. Not all buyers have a CONFIRMED address and tracking isn't available everywhere or in a cost-effective method that a buyer doesn't bitch about having to pay for.

So, if you pony up for EXPRESS shipping (the only method with tracking & insurance to most locations) AND can confirm your PayPal address, I'll sell to you. No problem! But if you cannot or will not do one or the other or both, tough beans buddy, someone who can satisfy the requirements can buy it instead.

I've been burned on low-cost items more than once which I can deal with. I refuse to be burned on something I cannot afford to lose.

[FlyingPhotog]

Why are most of you Americans/Canadians reluctant to sell internationally? with todays technology it can be just as quick to post Internationally as is is from one State to another, most times you will be dealing with a cash transaction via bank transfer so no fear of getting shafted there. OK it might take a couple of days longer for a payment to clear but surely no-one is selling anything that urgent they can't wait a few days longer for a payment to clear.

There is actually more oportunity for a buyer to get shafted by a seller than the other way around, but if everyone takes care in what they do it would open up a whole new market place for everyone.

or is it as some people seem to suggest that most Americans dont believe there is actually a world beyond their own shores just waiting to be explored ;)

Yer kidding right?

Hell, we have people in the US who don't know there's a world west of the Hudson River or east of the San Gabriel Mountains...

And you're worried about something as insignificant as the Atlantic Ocean?

Sheesh... :rolleyes:

<You realize, of course, 'Tongue' -> 'Cheek' >

[cosworth]

This is absurd on your part. PayPal explicitly says to NOT ship until a payment has cleared and it makes perfect sense!

You're misunderstanding.

Paypal states that when you have received payment you are requited to ship. You cannot ship once it has been transferred to your bank account.

I can supply the docs that show I won the dispute if you'd like...Bottom line is that I PAID $50 for expedited shipping and got it a month later. WTF?

[cdifoto]

Oh you mean cleared from PayPal to his bank, not cleared from an e-check to PayPal?

[FUBAR247]

Guys please don't turn this in to a country bashing thread :(

There are many options available to a seller in the US that would give them the security of knowing they ain't gonna be shafted, the most important is not posting to an address that is not the billing address, and to use a tracking service that tracks from door to door.

I have purchased $1,000's from the US over the years with "0" problems other than sometimes a major delay in receiving the item (once pushed the sellers admitted they were waiting for stock or just not got around to posting it even though they had said it was dispatched) but its such a struggle to find sellers that will sell internationally, they read about someone getting shafted during a out of country sale then tar everyone else with the same brush.

There is more chance of a buyer getting shafted than the seller, after all we (the buyer) are sending you (the seller) full payment on the off chance your a honest seller and the item is as described. While the exchange rate is so good for us at the moment you guys could make a killing with your sales without having to drop your asking prices, just use common sense when completing the transaction and make sure you cover yourself just in case you do come across a Muppet who's sole goal is to shaft someone.

Paypal is not the only option available, and to be honest I don't think paypal is that secure for either the seller or the buyer.

I have a lot of American friends (ex-military http://www.1st-vets.com) who I can call on to help make a purchase then post onwards to me, but its a ball ache to keep calling on them, and having to pay two postage charges.

[Mum2J&M]

Guys please don't turn this in to a country bashing thread :(

There are many options available to a seller in the US that would give them the security of knowing they ain't gonna be shafted, the most important is not posting to an address that is not the billing address, and to use a tracking service that tracks from door to door.

I have purchased $1,000's from the US over the years with "0" problems other than sometimes a major delay in receiving the item (once pushed the sellers admitted they were waiting for stock or just not got around to posting it even though they had said it was dispatched) but its such a struggle to find sellers that will sell internationally, they read about someone getting shafted during a out of country sale then tar everyone else with the same brush.

There is more chance of a buyer getting shafted than the seller, after all we (the buyer) are sending you (the seller) full payment on the off chance your a honest seller and the item is as described. While the exchange rate is so good for us at the moment you guys could make a killing with your sales without having to drop your asking prices, just use common sense when completing the transaction and make sure you cover yourself just in case you do come across a Muppet who's sole goal is to shaft someone.

Paypal is not the only option available, and to be honest I don't think paypal is that secure for either the seller or the buyer.

I'll agree with you on that.

[Scorpio]

Allright, this is one that gets me too, and maybe some of you can explain it to me, especially those of you who seem to have something against customs forms- this phenomenon isn't only limited to international shipments, it's limited to anything outside the *continental* US. WTF?

Furthermore, anyone in the continental US that's willing to ship to those of us in Hawaii or Alasaka insist on doing it overnight or two day mail. C'mon! What's wrong with priority mail, or something along those lines?

I always run into a situation in which I'm looking into buying something, for example of a $40 value (gaskets and random small engine parts), and the shipping was calculated at $120. Seirously, true story. And if they had been willing to send it priority mail, it would've been about $10.

Can't say it's customs forms. I know some folks don't know Alaska and Hawaii are actually part of the US, but I'd hope most people doing business in the US would know better. And it's not like regular mail is going to take that long, either, which is one I've heard as an excuse. Maybe 40 years ago it took a couple of weeks, nowadays it takes a day or two longer than it does to the rest of the country, that *includes* overnight and second day. That's right, overnight to Hawaii isn't overnight, it's two day; and two day actually takes three. So I'm usually required to pay for second day delivery and don't get it in two days. What gives?

Sorry. A pet peeve of mine as well.

/rant off

[S.Horton]

Perceived fraud risk.

@Cos check your history books, compare IEX laws and current practices around the globe, including labor, banking and immigration, then edit your comments.

As for the OP, Canada isn't 'overseas' for the US.

Sorry you've had a bad experience, in any event.

[jptsr1]

paperwork and cost of shipping.

J.

[CyberDyneSystems]

This is the first time in 28,000 posts I have ever felt the need to say this on this forum,

but WHAT THE HELL with turning this subject into an excuse to bash Americans?

No don't answer that, in fact you can't because this thread is locked.

Read the rules again folks, this one no blind eye is being cast, Everyone that deserves it is getting this one on there permanent record here.





To the OP here's why,
International customs.

I've had packages intentionally destroyed by customs (Canada) just because they contained batteries. And guess what, not just the battery but the entire package.

Insurance does not cover this, so I eat it.

All it takes is one case of a deal going bad (or reading about someone else's which many may have done) to make people wary of the hazards of shipping where the contents is routed through an international bureaucracy over which you have no recourse.