20D vs 1D MK II, which one to buy? Help please

[sGu]

Right, i've been using 1D for a while, but constantly feel the lack of camera bodies, so I decide to purchase a second body.

Here comes the hard part, 20D or 1D MK II(just under my budget if I get it from the states)?

Both cameras have similar features, but in some way 1D MK II is more advanced and higher burst rate.

I mostly shoot sports and events, sometimes fashion, landscape and portrait. With action, i need the burst, for landscape/portrait/fashion, 8.2mp is a bonus when it comes to printing. Also the low noise helps a lot in low light situation.

Oh, i'm also planning to start shooting weddings.

I'm comfortable with size, weight of 1D MK II, with 20D i'll have to get the grip.

p.s i shoot 100% RAW

Thanks in advance!

[Persian-Rice]

1D MKII, I know you are heavy into sports and whatnot..............considering you do press level stuff, don't settle for less!

If you get the 20D it will become a backup. if you get the MKII the 1D will become the backup, it's quite a big difference. Your decision to make at the end.

[timmyquest]

[quote]
If you get the 20D it will become a backup. if you get the MKII the 1D will become the backup, it's quite a big difference. Your decision to make at the end.

I do like that point, but i always think of weight.

You figure a backup is going to have a wider lens on it so a grip really isnt needed too much, it would be nice ot have that light camera over your sholder.

But going to a 1dMKII would be a large large improvement...if i had the choice i'd prolly get the MKII

[sGu]

weight and camera size doesn't really bother that much, i'm used to 1D.

However, it's the feature vs price that keeps me from making the decision.

1D MK II is like a combination of 1D and 20D, a best of both worlds, but $3000 difference ain't an amount to be ignored. :roll:

[Persian-Rice]

[quote]
If you get the 20D it will become a backup. if you get the MKII the 1D will become the backup, it's quite a big difference. Your decision to make at the end.

I do like that point, but i always think of weight.

You figure a backup is going to have a wider lens on it so a grip really isn't needed too much, it would be nice ot have that light camera over your sholder.

But going to a 1dMKII would be a large large improvement...if i had the choice i'd prolly get the MKII

Thats the diff I guess, it depends on the user, to me weight nor size is an issue, to others its the #1 factor. Other then that, at least IMO, he shoots for ManUtd, if I lost the use of my #1 camera, I would something equivalent in capability as my #2, but he obviously does other work as well, thats why I am not sure, its a difficult choice.

The 1D MKII is better, no questions asked, but does he need it?
SGU, if the 20D seems like the better choice, you can always sell the 1D and buy the 1D MKII and the 20D.......which would technically cost the same as buying the 1D MKII and keeping the 1D.

Personally, If I was in your shoes and in this situation, I would go with the two 1 series camera's

Cheers.

[aam1234]

sGu, are you making money out of photography (a pro). If yes then go with MKII. Heck, I'm a first class noob but thinking of getting the MKII (but probable won't).

[sGu]

I'm not a full time pro, that's why it's not an easy decision.

I have to choose carefully, don't wanna throw money away too easily. However, I can see myself working full time in a year or so, it won't be a problem then, before that, I still need you folks' advice.

Also, with 20D and 1D, means i have to buy extra batteries and take two different chargers wherever i go :roll:

[aam1234]

I can see myself working full time in a year or so

That should make your decision easier. Buy the cheaper one (20D) to save money. And when you go full time, then buy whatever the best at that time, because you can write it off as an expense :wink:

[roanjohn]

If cost is not an issue, I would get the 1DMKII............and this will pretty much eclipse your 1D........

Or how about selling your 1D...........and getting the 1DMKII and a used 10D.........

Just a thought...........

Ro1

[sGu]

If cost is not an issue, I would get the 1DMKII............and this will pretty much eclipse your 1D........

Or how about selling your 1D...........and getting the 1DMKII and a used 10D.........

Just a thought...........

Ro1

cost is an issue, i don't have any extra money, just enough to buy a used 1D MK II, so no money flying here.

I would definitely keep 1D rather getting a 10D, I came from 10D and never looked back.

[drisley]

Buy both, and send me the one you use the least :wink:

Seriously though, that sounds like a tough decision. However, if you buy the MKII, I'm sure you wont regret it, especially a year from now.
If you buy the 20D, if you are like me, you may always be wondering "what if...."

[CyberDyneSystems]

Tough call...

I agree with the assesment that decision is to either get a back up for the 1D, or to replace the 1D with the MkII relegatig the 1D to back-up status.

I see that one of your reasons for a "backup" is really not to use it as a backuo,. but as a second body with a different lens?

If this is correct.. if this is the primary reason for a second body.. then you SHOULD get the mkII. I personally keep a 10D, and now a 20D as "backup"... and although you do get used to it.. it is a bit of a hassle switching from one set of controls to another on a dual camera shoot.

Maintaining the consistancey of controls with all "1D" bodies may be one of your deciding points,.. certainly something to consider.

Also.. if you get the MkII... you also may just trade the 1D for a 20D some day... this is also how I ended up with a mkII and 10D.. I sold the 1D instead.

[ingouk]

sGu: is there a place where you could rent the 20D and 1D MK II for a day or so? If so rent them both and test them and see which one feels better.

[CyberDyneSystems]

I would definitely keep 1D rather getting a 10D, I came from 10D and never looked back.

In light of that.. then there really is only one option.. The MkII... the 20D is simply a 10D+

[roanjohn]

.

I would definitely keep 1D rather getting a 10D, I came from 10D and never looked back.

If you hated the 10D, then you'll hate the 20D too.........they are essentially the same...........In a general way of speaking.

.............So, to end all discussion..........get the used 1DMKII!!!

Isn't that easy??

Ro1

[sGu]

I am looking for my SECOND body not backup camera.

I can rent 20D and 1D MK II, but with the cost of renting, it'll take a chunk away from what i've saved up, 1D MK II cost £100+ PER DAY to rent ... not sure about 20D

Even though 20D is a better version of 10D, it still has features i dream of, such as higher resolution, low noise, E-TTL II etc. so it only looks like 10D from outside, inside it's a whole new world.

[despot]

Why not get another 1D - that wouldn't be much more expensive than a 20D with a grip ....

Andy

[sGu]

i did think about it, but i'd like to have higher resolution for feature works, also for portraits and landscapes.

[neil_r]

Do you want to borrow my MkII for a test?

N

[jonniewalton]

I have just got my 20d and grip and its very very good, CMOS 2, digic, startup and the buffer etc but...............the Mk2 wins because of the 45 point AF (if you use AF!). The probability of NOT getting the shot in focus is slim. As you know for sports the 10d is about 50 -75% and the 20d 75-85% probability. I know its a lot of money for the extra features but in my view, its what makes the Mk2 the professionals choice. The TFT screen is slightly bigger but seems clearer and if you delete as you go this can be helpful

[sGu]

Do you want to borrow my MkII for a test?

N

wow, that is very generous of you, Neil, I did have a go with MK II for about 10 minutes or so, absolutely loved it, i guess what i need now is to have a hands-on trial with 20D ...

I'm afraid i'll love your MK II too much to return it :P

I have just got my 20d and grip and its very very good, CMOS 2, digic, startup and the buffer etc but...............the Mk2 wins because of the 45 point AF (if you use AF!). The probability of NOT getting the shot in focus is slim. As you know for sports the 10d is about 50 -75% and the 20d 75-85% probability. I know its a lot of money for the extra features but in my view, its what makes the Mk2 the professionals choice. The TFT screen is slightly bigger but seems clearer and if you delete as you go this can be helpful

That's one thing i'm worrying about, AF performance from 45 points(1D) to only 9 ...

guess i'll have to have a chat with my dealer and see if they can let me have a go with 20D

[pcasciola]

If you're shooting a lot of sports, you should go check out the threads on sportsshooter.com (http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_index.html), because there has been a lot of comparisons on that site related to sports shooting with the 20D vs the Mark II. Unless money is no object, you could sell the Mark II and get yourself two 20Ds and a nice 70-200 F/2.8L IS and solve your single body problem for free.

One guy today posted that after shooting with a 20D, he is considering selling one of his two Mark IIs to get two 20Ds as backups http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=12064

This other guy had a really good review for sports shooting with a 20D vs the Mark II, and got some incredible shots at a night football game posted. He says that the 20D was very close to the Mark II for sports shooting even though it has less focus points, and that the Mark II could track a moving subjet for 20-30 consecutive shots only getting one or two that were out of focus, but the percentage of out of focus shots with the 20D was a little higher. http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/131801

[sGu]

already did and read that post, also couple of on FM board and DPreview's forum :D

One thing he said "would sell ONE of his MK IIs", so he's keep the other one while adding another 2 20D to his pool ... if I already have a MK II, there would be no questions, would it :wink:

oh, one more thing, i already have 70-200mm f2.8 IS :D

[pcasciola]

Oh. whoops. I thought you said you had 1 Mk II. :oops:

I'm jealous. I wan't that 70-200mm F/2.8L in the worst way (please don't read my pathetic lens signature :lol: ).

Hey, where's all the red L's in your sig like all the other L owners have?

[sGu]

Oh. whoops. I thought you said you had 1 Mk II. :oops:

I'm jealous. I wan't that 70-200mm F/2.8L in the worst way (please don't read my pathetic lens signature :lol: ).

no worries ;) 50mm f1.8 is a great lens, and i'm sure you join us "L" addicts in no time :p

Hey, where's all the red L's in your sig like all the other L owners have?

you mean this:
EOS 1D | 50mm f1.4 | 17-40mm f4.0 | 24-70mm f2.8 | 70-200mm f2.8 IS | 400mm f2.8 IS (rental)

I took the big red "L" away, that's my first step try to overcome my addiction ... which did not work ... at all

:roll:

[Persian-Rice]

sGu, if you need a body, the 20D is a step down from your 1D, especially in sporting situations. Did you see the link of the comparison I posted a few days back?

I would personally never buy new, just as the saying goes "as soon as you drive it off the lot, the value drops". Get something somewhat used, as you know the 1 series are built to last.

Even if it means waiting a month, wait and get the MKII.
There is a difference between people who do it as a hobby and people looking to go pro. If you lose a shot because of your equipment when you are a hobbyist, its not all that bad. But if you lose shots because of your equipment and you are trying to work your way into a career, then its a big problem.

I have thought hard about this long and hard because I know I will and want to be a pro photographer very soon. If it means taking one step back to take two steps forward, so be it. Thats my belief behind that.

Cheers.

[nosquare2003]

1DMKII.

"Never settled for less" -- Heineken advertisement

[chris.bailey]

Right, i've been using 1D for a while, but constantly feel the lack of camera bodies, so I decide to purchase a second body.

Here comes the hard part, 20D or 1D MK II(just under my budget if I get it from the states)?

Both cameras have similar features, but in some way 1D MK II is more advanced and higher burst rate.

I mostly shoot sports and events, sometimes fashion, landscape and portrait. With action, i need the burst, for landscape/portrait/fashion, 8.2mp is a bonus when it comes to printing. Also the low noise helps a lot in low light situation.

Oh, i'm also planning to start shooting weddings.

I'm comfortable with size, weight of 1D MK II, with 20D i'll have to get the grip.

p.s i shoot 100% RAW

Thanks in advance!

If you get a chance spend an hour or so with a 10D or 20D and a MKII. Handling a MKII makes a 10D/20D feel like a point and shoot. No disrespect the 10D/20D's are brilliant cameras but none of the digital cameras I have owned so far D30/D60/10D give me total confidence of setting up a shot and pressing the trigger knowing 100% what will come out at the other end in the same way as I did with some film cameras. At a couple of shoots I have missed key shots due to focus or metering problems on the 10D. The MKII comes very close, it feels completely different and inspires confidence that for me comes out in the photos you take, however good you are. On the strength of a couple of hours with a MKII I bought one there and then leaving me with a 10D as a second body/backup.

[sGu]

Right, thanks for all your replies!

I decide to go with 1D MK II, now is time for hunting around :D

[jgbeam]

Right, thanks for all your replies!

I decide to go with 1D MK II, now is time for hunting around :D

I'm too late for your decision, but I think you made the right one. One thing that wasn't mentioned was the controls. They are basically the same for the 1D and 1DMkII. That's another big plus. I was shooting a play last night with the MkII and the Rebel. Switching back and forth between cameras and changing settings on the fly can get a bit confusing with two entirely different sets of controls.

BTW, I had the 135 f/2 L on the Rebel and the 24-70 f2.8 L on the MkII. It's a perfect combination for shooting theatre from just behind the orchestra pit. And the weight is not an issue, either.

Jim

[karusel]

This reminds me of the numerous 10D vs Rebel debates.... I say buy the cheaper one, you get to loose the half you pay in either case.

[chris.bailey]

Right, thanks for all your replies!

I decide to go with 1D MK II, now is time for hunting around :D

Right decision. Warehouse Express www.warehouseexpress.com delivered mine to me the next day.

[sGu]

out of stock at the moment, i might try to source one from the states :wink:

[neil_r]

I was in Jacobs in Leicester today (looking at tripods, and unfortunatly walked out with one, still in the boot awaiting suitable time to smuggle in) They had a 1D MkII on the shelf, it may be worth giving them a ring, I did not enquire about the price though.


http://www.jacobsdigital.co.uk/content.php

N

[sGu]

I saw one on FM board, UK specs, brand new, unopened going for £2850.

I'd love to have a UK spec camera, just can't afford UK price :roll:

[ArtierSquare]

You know sGu, I am sooo please you posted this Q.

It has been a matter very close to my own heart. My greatest problem is 20D and a handful of L lenses or the 1DMkII and NOOO lenses! but save for them after...

The replies from you guys have been great and helpful to me also...

Though unlike sGu, I'm still out there... UNSURE of which way to jump!

I still have a month to decide, so I keep reading these posts. I am, I must say, worried about all these lockups I keep reading of though :?

[sGu]

hey, i totally understand your frustration mate, it has been bugging me for a good while till recently, now my mind is made up, just need to hold my breath and put down the money ... it's actually a lot harder than it sounds :roll:

hope you can come up with a decision soon :D

[ArtierSquare]

Without wishing to appear too dim here and set myself up...

You mention UK spec. Apart from the warranties what are the differences between here and the R.O.W...?

[sGu]

to me? nothing but power adapter

[ArtierSquare]

Ah... of course...

Well how does everyone who buys stateside manage then :?: Does a UK adapter work in a B&H, 1DMII bought there, or do they buy the UK adapter here on their return?

Or am I really setting my self up here ( I feel a touch of paranoia setting in)...

[sGu]

my current 1D is a US body, and you can either buy a UK cable(which i use the one came with my 10D), or just simply buy a convertor/adapter for the socket, it only cost no more than a fiver

[ArtierSquare]

Like someone (brighter than me) once said,

"You carn't beat experience"

Thanks, I shall bear that in mind on my trip to NY in December...

[sGu]

I'm sure everything you bring back from the states will work just as fine, wish i could have time to pay a visit to the states, B&H really :wink:

spend your money wisely :D

[neil_r]

to me? nothing but power adapter

The power adapters are exactly the same, it's only the lead that goes from te power outlet to the adapter that are different. One has a 2 pin plug (US) and the other a 3 pin (UK). The power adapter end has the same standard 2 hole connecter. You can buy a UK lead for pennies, or, if like me you never throw anything away, you will have loads of them lying around the house.

N

[sGu]

to me? nothing but power adapter

The power adapters are exactly the same, it's only the lead that goes from te power outlet to the adapter that are different. One has a 2 pin plug (US) and the other a 3 pin (UK). The power adapter end has the same standard 2 hole connecter. You can buy a UK lead for pennies, or, if like me you never throw anything away, you will have loads of them lying around the house.

N

i actually meant the plug goes into sockets on the wall ... oh, i've actually have quite a few of them in the house ... somewhere ...

[jd_D60]

I've been considering the same ?.

The only down side is I probably could do the 20D now but need to wait a year or so for 1D MkII.

For me (and I shoot Weddings, portraits) the buffer is a killer on the 20D, 6 MAX in RAW/CR2 which is worse than the 9 on my 10D.... so I'll wait and may also go stateside - hopefully the 1Ds MkII and 20D will force 1D MkII prices south

[danphoto1]

1DMKII you won't regret it.

[FrenchAmateur]

I used to have two Eos 10D.
I had real focusing problems (they went twice to Canon services...with all my lenses ) and was irritated by the delay to switch the camera one (and missed some wildlife pictures for this reason).
I bought a 1D Mark II, and I am satisfied of course, despite the additional weight of the camera (I am used to it, I had the Eos 1, 1n, 3 with motodrives in the past...).
A second body was necessary for having another lense mounted (for wildlife, I use most of the time a 500 mm and the 100-400..).
I bought the 20D as a second body.
I made some comparison at different iso.
I am not a specialist in testing, but it SEEMS to me that from 100 to 800 iso, the 20D is as good as the Mark II (with more contrast if the settings of both camera are neutral, but this is normal).
At 1600 iso, I have the impression that the Mark II is slightly better. I did not test the 3200...
If you dont mind the 1,3 or 1,6 factor, and dont need the ultra fast motor drive, I would recommand the 20D. I am not sure that I would buy now, with the 20D on the market, a nex Mark II for three times the price.
Of course, I travel a lot and I am quite happy with the reliability of my Mark II, but I can break three 20D for the price of my MarkII.

[kufel]

http://199.43.182.211/index.htm
1DMkII 70-200 IS mostly at ISO320 (waterproofing helped a lot on this particular day.....)