Photoshop non-destructive editing / good image viewing program (mac)?

[gregjp48]

I want to use nondestructive editing in photoshop using adjustment layers. However, I need a good program for cataloging those photos. I originally used a Lightroom workflow, but Lightroom just does not run well on my G4 ibook, so I figured a photoshop non destructive editing one would better. I use a mac btw.

Originally I wanted to use iView Media Pro for cataloging, but they've recently been taken over by Microsoft (yikes). I tried Photomechanic, and I liked it, but I ran into a few hiccups with my workflow while using it (or any image-viewing program).

I don't shoot RAW, so my master file is a JPEG. The problem here is I have to flatten the file to save it so I have to create an extra PSD apart from the master with my changes, which totally defeats the purpose. How can I overcome this? Should I convert everything to PSD when I import it from my camera? Otherwise, I have no idea.

Also, what colorspace should I be shooting in? Is Adobe RGB more of a hassle that I won't really see in the finished product? What resources can I look at on how to set Photoshop settings such as color profiles etc.?

Thanks in advance.

[tim]

Why do you have to flatten to save it? You should save as psd, then a copy as JPG for whatever you need.

If you don't understand color profiles do everything in sRgb. There's a sticky thread by Rene at the top of this forum which will tell you about color.

[one1]

Can you tell me what iBook you have and what ram you've stuff into it? It'll help me determine what your system can handle program wise.

[René Damkot]

I still use iView media Pro myself.

If your original is a jpg, you'ld want to save the psd if you want to be able to redo / alter some of the adjustment(layer)s. I don't see how that would "defeat the purpose". What is your purpose then?

You *never, ever* want to overwrite the original 'camera jpg'.

[Permagrin]

first before switching programs, I'd advise just maxing out the ram on your mac. Lightroom runs fine on my G4 powerbook at 2gb ram.

[gregjp48]

Can you tell me what iBook you have and what ram you've stuff into it? It'll help me determine what your system can handle program wise.

My mistake I forgot to mention it

I have a 1.33Ghz G4 iBook with 1GB of ram in it
the video card is 32meg for anyone unfamilliar with it

I'm not sure whether my book maxes out at 1.25 gb or 1.5
if it's 1.5 i'd buy a gig chip to go along with the built in 512 and maybe that would help LR performance? But right now it is nearly unusable. If I could use lightroom instead I would be so happy since I could create virtual versions and most of my workflow would just be in LR.

Is ther any way to turn off some of teh LR eyecandy or something? I notice when I scroll it takes a minute for the extra data to appear in teh frame of each image, like flags or ratings, etc. Also, I can't render 1:1 previews, since HD space is a bit limited, but I'm seeeing the lag in the grid view, not in the loupe tool.

edit: crap I dont' know now
http://www.maclife.com/article/photoshop_lightroom_1_0 -- this review says that a macbook with 1gb of ram runs it beautifully.
could the processor or vram be a problem then? I won't be able to get a new laptop for another year or two.

[gregjp48]

I still use iView media Pro myself.

If your original is a jpg, you'ld want to save the psd if you want to be able to redo / alter some of the adjustment(layer)s. I don't see how that would "defeat the purpose". What is your purpose then?

You *never, ever* want to overwrite the original 'camera jpg'.

cause then i'd have two copies of the image, while with just one non destructive file i have just one original undernaeath all of the adjustment layers in the edited version.

why does a jpeg have to be flattened? B/c it's not photoshop's native format?

[René Damkot]

I have a 1.33Ghz G4 iBook with 1GB of ram in it
the video card is 32meg for anyone unfamilliar with it

I'm not sure whether my book maxes out at 1.25 gb or 1.5

If it's the 14" model (2004), it's max 1.25. If it's the 12" model (2005), it's max 1.5 Gb
Since you have 1G installed, I'd guess you have the 12"


Is ther any way to turn off some of teh LR eyecandy or something? I notice when I scroll it takes a minute for the extra data to appear in teh frame of each image, like flags or ratings, etc. Also, I can't render 1:1 previews, since HD space is a bit limited, but I'm seeeing the lag in the grid view, not in the loupe tool.
What size previews do you render now?
I use LR on both my G4 AGP (upgraded to 1GHz) with 1.5Gb and Powerbook G4/1.33 with 1.25Gb, and I find it just workable on the G4. Powerbook is better, but still no speed daemon...
You might want to consider an external HDD for your images though...
Also: Try optimising the catalog..

edit: crap I dont' know now
http://www.maclife.com/article/photoshop_lightroom_1_0 -- this review says that a macbook with 1gb of ram runs it beautifully.
could the processor or vram be a problem then? I won't be able to get a new laptop for another year or two.
macbook is quite a bit faster then any PPC off course ;)

cause then i'd have two copies of the image, while with just one non destructive file i have just one original undernaeath all of the adjustment layers in the edited version.

why does a jpeg have to be flattened? B/c it's not photoshop's native format?

Jpgs are compressed files. I guess that's why they need to be flattened: You want them as small as possible ;)
Only .psd .psb and .tif (in some programs) support layers.

You cannot 'non destructively' edit a jpg in PS. (For instance: cropping will loose you pixels.)
You could off course flatten the file and just save the edited jpg (I repeat: Do *not* overwrite the original "camera" jpg!). You'd need to redo the edit if you want to alter something then however.

[gregjp48]

If it's the 14" model (2004), it's max 1.25. If it's the 12" model (2005), it's max 1.5 Gb
Since you have 1G installed, I'd guess you have the 12"

What size previews do you render now?
I use LR on both my G4 AGP (upgraded to 1GHz) with 1.5Gb and Powerbook G4/1.33 with 1.25Gb, and I find it just workable on the G4. Powerbook is better, but still no speed daemon...
You might want to consider an external HDD for your images though...
Also: Try optimising the catalog..

macbook is quite a bit faster then any PPC off course ;)


Jpgs are compressed files. I guess that's why they need to be flattened: You want them as small as possible ;)
Only .psd .psb and .tif (in some programs) support layers.

You cannot 'non destructively' edit a jpg in PS. (For instance: cropping will loose you pixels.)
You could off course flatten the file and just save the edited jpg (I repeat: Do *not* overwrite the original "camera" jpg!). You'd need to redo the edit if you want to alter something then however.

It's the 12". I might just pick up a gig chip soon to speed stuff up further, but I just upgraded to 1.3, and it seems to be working a lot faster now. I opened activity monitor before I upgraded, and I don't think Ram is the problem, since there was a good 1/3 of it free even with lightroom, safari, and adium running.

EDIT: With photoshopopen I have only 16mb free. Only half is active, but virtual ram is taking up a good 430 mb. You know what, I'll post pictures. Maybe I need to work on memory allocation in photoshop, or use my external partition as a scratch disk? will that help speeds (at least in photoshop). I'm not noticing any speed problems in that progra, but I'm not doing heavy heavy work in it either, as most of my work is done in LR. If I have that extra 500 megabytes of ram, will Photoshop eat that up as well?

I render the standard previews at the default setting. I just looked in preferences and I can't seem to find it at the moment. Maybe I should just make it 1024x768 due to the fact that's what my screen is anyway? I hook it up to a 1280x1024 screen, but not when using LR, as the screen spanning hack halves the vram, which slows down the program too much for my tastes. It's a shame since I would love to have lightroom or a tutorial on my ibook's screen and photoshop on the larger. Oh well, I can wait a couple of years. It's not like I do this for a living or anything.

Oh, and does LR discard standard previews like it does 1:1, because I'm working with older images, so maybe that is causing the slowdown?

I think I'm going to stick with LR now. It's still a bit slow when scrolling through libraries of images larger than the screen can fit, and when switching modules and stuff, but I can deal with that for a while. It's much more usuable than before. I think I'll open it as a tiff or a psd in photoshop for more in depth edits and edit nondestructively there, while still keeping the master jpeg with the LR edits on it.

I don't know what they did to speed up 1.3 as opposed to 1.0, but it's just such a difference! Thanks for all of your help. :)

Now, on to sorting through my 8-10k images...

[gregjp48]

Here are the pictures:

Not running Photoshop:
235379

and Running Photoshop:
235378

I'm surprised; usually I have less ram available when not running photoshop. Maybe it's been fragmented since my last boot from all the work that I've done. I think I'm going to have to stop using safari at the same time as my Photo programs. But daymn, 100mb just for a web browser? I always knew Safari was a memory hog, but I like it so much better than the other mac browsers. I'm trying to get rid of some of those "Helper" apps like Google updater and not keep MainMenu on. Do they have a significant effect on memory when added up? I need to keep SmartReporter running for obvious reasons.