My a****** feels sore

[karusel]

Guys, I can say I pretty much understand how economy works, marketing, advertising, prices... but Jesus Christ... before 20D was out, used 10D's were selling for, what, 1300? 1200 was a very good buying price... now, 800 is a great selling price. 50 percent. The Rebel is at 50% too, with around $500. I realized who did this to us. Canon. Think about it, seriously. It's all marketing, a NEW camera is coming out, it's 5!!!!! fps, and 23!!!!!!! frames buffer. And it takes EF-S lenses. This is so consumer targeted I'd rather be bored to death watching re-runs of Friends than to buy that camera. But to an average consumer, the numbers tell a whole differend story in a comparison to 10d. 20D is NOT a giant leap, it doesn't break any damn boundaries, it's a nip and a tuck, and it's priced about the same 10D was when it was introduced to the market. As far as I know, 10D was selling real well... until the rumors of a successor. I AM afraid to buy the next camera whatever it will be. Well, after I'll have sold this one, which obviously won't be now.

Also, my signature is really not appropriate right now...

[tommykjensen]

I hate to tell You this. Your 10D will only decrease in value with time.

[Belmondo]

This kind of reaction really begs the question, "Why do you buy cameras in the first place? As investments, or to use?"

Becuase the digital camera market is almost entirely technology-driven, it stands to reason that any camera, no matter how appealing it is when new, is going to be rendered obsolete with when the next model is released.

Frankly, I don't think 50% is all that bad when taken in the context of a camera being essentially a disposable commodity. Would you expect your used cell phone to retain anywhere near 50% of its value? I doubt it. Like cell phones, cameras wear out, but more likely their designs become dated, their general appeal fades, or most typically, something a little better with new features and/or performance comes along.

The injustice seems to rise from the notion that the decrease in value should be in some way proportional to the improvements in subsequent models; the less the improvement, the more the old camera should hold its value. Sadly, that simply isn't the case.

People will always dump their 30D for a 60D, their 60D for a 10D or 20D, or their 1D for a 1D Mk II. In some cases, the improvements are significant, and in others, almost too subtle to notice.

Canon will not stay in business if they build a camera that can't be improved upon and will never wear out.

[Danny Boy]

Good point belmondo.

If technology was not to advance as it has, I'd still have my AT&T 6300 w/ its 20mb hard card and mono screen. I'd also be using punched cards like I did when I was in college. :lol: (Ouch, I'm old)

A friend of mine had an Imsai 8080 (bad spelling) pre-dating the IBM PC. Anyone ever use one of those?

Dan

[roanjohn]

:?

Still confused about the title..........maybe you've been sitting in front of your computer for too long.

Ro1

[CyberDyneSystems]

:?

Still confused about the title..........maybe you've been sitting in front of your computer for too long.

Ro1

I think it is a reference to the fact that after selling $2,500.00 in 10D, grip and other stuff (cards, etc) for a mere $999.00 ... (like myself)

...one might feel as if Canon had.. shall we say.. "reemed your grommett"

[karusel]

:?

Still confused about the title..........maybe you've been sitting in front of your computer for too long.

Ro1

Maybe. It was a long day, always is :D

I realize your point belmondo, even before you typed it out. I'm just ranting against reality I guess. You mentioned cell phones. I bought mine (http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,141,00.html) about two years ago, I think and it cost me about $500. Today I'd probably get $50 for it if at all. The thing is, I'm happy with this one, don't think to sell it, like, ever. Some people just can't seem to be able to live without changing phones for new and exciting versions which are improvements only in a substantial amount of time.

A D30 STILL makes good enough photos, but let's just say if you want to print poster size, you sort of really need a little more, so that's where it stops for me. And I don't even print A3 size. I just hate the side effects of crowd manipulation.

[roanjohn]

:?

Still confused about the title..........maybe you've been sitting in front of your computer for too long.

Ro1

I think it is a reference to the fact that after selling $2,500.00 in 10D, grip and other stuff (cards, etc) for a mere $999.00 ... (like myself)

...one might feel as if Canon had.. shall we say.. "reemed your grommett"

:oops:

..................................

Ro1

[Digital Prophet]

I was reflecting on this matter myself today. I bought my Rebel in February and spent $1,000 for the kit. And now, like you said, they can be had for alo less. So I sat there wondering to myself "How do I feel about this?"

Well after a bit of reflection I realized that cameras aren't diamonds. They don't appreciate. They don't hold thier value. They are very much akin to scotch tape. Really expensive scotch tape.

You buy it and you use it to hold other stuff up. Very often it is the case that what you are holding up costs more than the tape holding it up. But the real value of tape is the effect of what is being held up. A note to call your mom. A picture your little girl drew. A reminder to hide the porn on your pc. They have a meaning and value that transcends the cost of the tape.

And much like tape, our cameras are disposable.

They hold our lenses up, which are the real investment, and they make it possible for us to create the images we do. And we all know that the value, both monetary and non-monetary, of those images makes the value of the camera pale by way of comparison.

I know that I have gotten way more than $500 worth of enjoyment from my Rebel. And while I haven't earned a small percentage of that lost $500 in revenue, I have had alot of experiences and been alot of places that never would have happened had I not bought my Rebel.

So, in short. I am ok with it.

Now that doesn't mean that I am a spending fool. I'm not going to pay twice the amount of one camera for another when it isn't that big a difference. But I might be getting a 10D. And when the 30D comes out and I can't sell my Rebel at a garage sale I'll still be happy.

And broke.

- Digital Prophet -

[Steven M. Anthony]

If Canon didn't do "marketing," we wouldn't have any Canon cameras now, would we. :idea:

[karusel]

The post.

This calmes me down... Yes, those dollars go to your photos. In my case 17 cents per photo, which really isn't all that bad - compare this to buying film. It definetely could have been worse... But this cliff like depreciation is still annoying.

[BearSummer]

Hi Karusel,

Just be glad you dont own 1Ds's then. rrp new £7k, after advanced negotioations in the shop (he said a number, I laughed, he said another number, I wiped a tear from my eye, he said a third number and I said, what?) ended up at £5.5, had a phone call about part x for the 1Ds Mk2 (in fact he called me and asked if I had seen the announcement), he said around £2k...

Point is that my 1Ds's still take just as good pictures as they did before the 1Ds Mk2 was leaked. They are still totally usable, functionality hasn't just faded away. Bottom line is, is the new functionality worth the price of the upgrade. If it isn't then don't worry, if it is and you can afford it then go buy it. DO NOT GET STRESSED ABOUT IT. New cameras get released with better specs, at the same price as what you bought 2 years ago, it happens. Does it mean that your pictures are any less impressive or less saleable.

I intend to keep my current cameras until the market dictates that I require a higer resolution, until then they are perfectly usable.

Best Wishes

BearSummer

[Big_B]

All good points, but don't forget that there is often a U shaped relationship between time and the price differential between the two cameras. When the D20 first came out there was a lot of excitment and many people were trying to sell their 10Ds or whatever in exchange for a 20D. Naturally this tends to drive the price of the 10D down and the 20D up, thus increasing the differential.

Over time this pattern should change and the differential should normalise. However these thoughts don't tell you wehther the price of the 10d will go back up, or the 20D fall.

[sGu]

Know your equipment better will benefit yourself so much more than just own better equipment, make them work for you ... don't work for them :wink:

[Belmondo]

Knowing your equipment better will benefit you so much more than just owning better equipment. Make them work for you ... don't work for them :wink:

I fiddled with your syntax a little, sGu, but there is a lot of wisdom in that statement. We should all print it out and hang it on the wall before we ever call B&H again.

[sGu]

Knowing your equipment better will benefit you so much more than just owning better equipment. Make them work for you ... don't work for them :wink:

I fiddled with your syntax a little, sGu, but there is a lot of wisdom in that statement. We should all print it out and hang it on the wall before we ever call B&H again.

That would be a great idea, but I can still see "Canon Addicts" lose control of themselves ... ;)

Thanks for tweaking it, it does sound a lot better :D

[CyberDyneSystems]

I like the quote.. :)

But I work for my camera so we can play together ... :wink:

[Andy_T]

Karusel,

it's a fact you'll have to accept ... actually, you are in a pretty much 'protected niche' as I can tell you from a G2 owner's standpoint :lol:
My camera lost half its price (not its value to me) about a month after I bought it.

The good news is ... your camera can still take perfectly great photos and give you a lot of joy.

Think about a car you own for, say, 5 years. You can still ride it, but the expense in maintenance goes up and there will be the day when it becomes economically impossible to invest what's necessary to get it though the roadworthiness assessment again.

Compared with that, a digital camera is a pretty stable thing.

Best regards,
Andy